Yeah, waaaaay more complex. :grin:
We're crazy like that. But dangers are sum like a kold bath, very dangerous while you stand stripped on the bank, but often not only harmless, but invigorating, if you pitch into them.
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Yeah, waaaaay more complex. :grin:
We're crazy like that. But dangers are sum like a kold bath, very dangerous while you stand stripped on the bank, but often not only harmless, but invigorating, if you pitch into them.
So you had to get rid of all of that brilliant work. No wonder EB 0.8 is taking so long! You have my deepest sympathy and if I could I would help, but I don't really have the knowledge. However I could be taught! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kull
For all that brilliant work you all deserve to get paid, get an award, get promotion to senior member and on top of all that get a job offer from the CA!
Well, those 30,000 new lines appear to be working quite well now I must say, after playing a decade as the Maks today.
Those who have been selected to participate in the EB Closed Beta Test Team have received PMs. Don't get discouraged if you did not get a message, there are only so many people that we can let in. Your continued dedication and support on the public boards is greatly appreciated by the whole EB team.
Good luck and happy hunting to all the new testers. Make us proud!
Does that mean that if you do not have a PM yet then you are not in?Quote:
Originally Posted by tk-421
Yes, but you should be glad actually. Take this as a brief reprieve from playing EB all the time. Get your affairs in order and your homework done in advance, so when 0.8 is released you can spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. Pity those poor souls who will be mercilessly driven to betatest our current working build to get it better ready for you nice folks.
Exactly why I did not volunteer... and also why I don't play .74, so .8 will be that much better. So much for me helping the team beta test!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
But then again, I likely wouldn't have been picked anyway, people don't like me, and that is just fine with me.
I'm confused. Why is this not alpha testing?
hi if you still need a beta tester i'm available and i can write some descriptions ~:)
You make better testing sound almost hard. When 0.8 is released I probably will not just spend unhealthy amounts of time playing it. I will spend ALL of my time playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
And may I wish good look to all BETA testers. May you have no CTDs and may you have all the time in the world to play it. Really I am starting to feel glad that I didn't get in the BETA testing. It gives me lots more time to work out what faction X is... :inquisitive:
And by the way, who did get chosen?
Rofl!Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
Uhh I guess this one is directed at me. So how is this fix going to be included in .80? Is the file going to the be same and we just swap it out when we can't get past a battle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kull
I'll probably end up tracking down this CTD when .80 comes out anyway, cause that is what I do.
If 0.8 still has the problem, and if you track it down and fix it, we will lay wreaths upon your door and give you a special "I pwnd EB!" sig banner. :grin:
So your that dancing gnome that attacks the squirrels!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Sorry, but it's a little too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by KtotheC
Oh you don't even know if it still have the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
I don't see why it is so hard to find, just need to comb through a few text files, really just takes a lot of tedious work, and because I'm a weirdo, I would be paranoid playing EB if I didn't fix it, so I would at least try to fix it... or die trying...
:skull:
No, that is not the case. It is not a matter of combing through a few files, even tedious amounts. It seems to be more connected to the number of triggers. A lot of people have looked through them to try and find the problem, people inside EB and people outside of EB. It is not an issue of not trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
And yes, I have stated even recently that we still don't have the problem totally taken care of. Here's the deal, and although Kull got irritated before, I'm going to get extremely irritated if you take the position that we aren't trying to fix this problem:
-there is a reinforcement CTD problem
-we have worked and worked at trying to find what exactly the problem is, and we don't have the problem totally solved yet
-we have ideas about what it is, but it involves restructuring a lot of things, not just going through a lot of things and making one fix
-we have a way of getting around it - a patch - but it keeps you from getting any post-battle traits/ancillaries; still, it can be applied just before a single battle if you have one big one to get around but still want to keep them otherwise
-finally, it has been very difficult for our current trait leader (our previous trait leader just got tired of modding and had real life things that he had to attend to and left a few months ago) to even get the ctd to occur, even in savegames, consistently enough to test it
We aren't lying to people. I said we still have the problem, we are trying to fix it, we have a sorta-fix that will stop it if somebody is freaking out about it, but this is the only damned problem in the whole game that we know of and we are still working to try and figure it all out completely. If you in your great wisdom just sit down and fix it, like you say you "will probably do", we will be *genuinely thrilled*. Until you do that, and until you play an actual campaign where you encounter this CTD, stop busting our balls about it.
Busting balls?
I was simply curious about whether or not it had been fixed (not try to question your efforts), I wasn't busting anyones balls. If anything your busting mine.
If no one fixes it before I do, it matters not to me, I don't expect anyone to do anything for me. I'm lucky people actually made this mod, saves me a lot of time. So thank you.
I apologize if it seems like I was trying to say you guys weren't doing anything, however that was not my intention and I was unclear or you misunderstood what I wanted to know. The fact is, to me, it didn't (and doesn't) matter how much your trying in relation to whether or not it was fixed. I just wanted to know if it was fixed or not . That's it. I didn't want to get a long explanation... yada yada yada... I don't care if your trying to fix it, it doesn't matter to me, I'll do it myself, I just don't want to start a game and have it happen before I fixed it.
I've modded nearly everything there is to mod in RTW, it is by far the easiest game to mod I have ever worked on.
Easy is relative though, and this is a product of the amount of time you work on it, after X amount of time, either the problem will be found or someone will found out what is doing it, and why it can't be fixed, or a work around or something. Finding a problem like this is like trying to learn a new skill, some people catch on quick, others don't. X is the amount of time it takes to a person learn that new skill, and if you don't reach, you don't learn it. No one has reached their individual X (since it differs from person to person) when it comes to this problem. Perhaps my X is more or less time than those who have tried, but it doesn't matter, because I do not quit.
With enough time you can build a bridge to the moon. Or monkeys can type Shakespeare. Or something. It doesn't have anything to do with wisdom.
We do not know what X is, but I intend to find out.
As a temp fix to the matter of reinforcement CTDs, I came across this thought: save the game when the screen comes up displaying the forces involved, save the game, exit, and restart. Now, play the battle through and you shouldn't get a CTD because you haven't turned the EB background script on yet. This way, you don't lose after-battle traits with every battle, but you can avoid the CTD.
I haven't had a problem yet, but I have by no means worked out this hypothesis scientifically.
fallen851, would you please do us the kind favour of (putting it very bluntly) shutting up about how easy the Reinforcement CTD would be for you to fix. If you want to try fixing it, try fixing it. Then you will see how what TA said is extremely true. From what I can see about you are not an experienced modder, nor are you an EB player. EB is a BETA and it will have issues like this in it, however it is extremely clear from what the team has said that they are attempting to fix this CTD now and are also trying find a more ideal solution to the problem than removing all post battle traits.
If you think you are so good at fixing CTDs them join the team and try it! I believe that they are trying their hardest to fix it and so should YOU!
I remember when i was playing .74 not long after it came out and was looking for bugs to report, a file was released which changed some traits to see if it fixed the reinforcement CTD, and it worked... So the problem is in the traits... It should just be a matter of removing each trait one by one until you find which one it was that was causing the problem... Or has this been done already? I mean i'll be happy to do boring grunt work like this in the closed beta... I did 3 hours of boring gruntwork a while back getting coordinates for each city on the map, then a further 2 hours trying to find out which one i had missed! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
Script on or off, does not matter. Not for me at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by abou
While we are on the subject of reinforcment battles: I noticed that the only times I get CTD's is when barbarians are involved. Ive done 3 campaigns. With the romans it crashed in most battles when fighting gauls/ germans/ britons or Iberia. With Sweboz it crashed in most battles. With Carthage it has crashed 1-4 times in +- 30 reinforcement battles, which was vs rebels/Iberia. No crashes vs KH and Ptolemy's).
I was wondering if others have had the same experience.
Please read what I just posted above. It does not seem to be one trait. It also doesn't happen everytime - and since these are battles, it's hard to make them all turn out the same. It appears to be a much more complex problem, possibly brought on by the number of post battle triggers and the way the system checks and sometimes double checks them. I think bozoslivehere has a possible solution, but it seems complex, so we may just have to wait a bit longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayve
A couple of facts about the Reinforcements CTD:
*After extensive testing by Malrubius and others, it was agreed that there wasn't a single problem trait. Before he left, he was working with the hypothesis that the problem happened because the engine made too many PostBattle tests, even with captains (it's well known that 1.2 has a bug where if you don't autocalc battles, PostBattle triggers are checked twice: we had a pretty neat workaround for that).
*Turning the script on or off won't help you avoid the CTD. The problem is trait, not script related.
*I'm not even trying to fix the .74 version CTD. Sorry, my time is limited, and right now I think getting .8 done is a much more important job.
*At the moment, I don't know if our current internal build suffers from the Reinforcement CTD. I haven't received any reports of it yet, but then again, not a lot of people have been playtesting it so far. Trying to get one is one of the things I specifically asked the betatesters to do. What I do know is that we have a heavily modified traits file and that 1.5 solved the 'PostBattle triggers get checked twice' bug, so I'm hoping we just won't have to deal with it.
*If it persists, we will fix it. Even if it's related to the number of PostBattle triggers we'll find a way. Bear in mind though, that if that happens, we'll have to make a few tough decisions about cutting traits. Just to give you guys some perspective, my latest version of export_descr_character_traits.txt has 447 PostBattle triggers.
Easy is relative. Hard is relative. They are not objective. Hard to them, may be easy to me and vice versa. I guess this needs to be explained.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
Hard to many people is having to spend a long time on something. Like "easy-mac" is being able to quickly whip up mac and cheese. The mac isn't "easy", the process which you make it isn't "easy" (easy is a construct and requires something to relative, so it is hard to make easy mac compared to closing your eyes), what makes it easy is that it takes less time (and less steps) than making normal mac and cheese.
So this bug is "hard" for the EB team for the same reason easy mac is easy to many people. This bug takes more time to solve, and requires more steps (unless someone is missing the very obvious, which is unlikely) compared to other bugs, so it is "hard".
To me, hard is not something that takes a long time to fix or requires a lot of steps, and as I proved above, this is a problem that can be solved (either by fixing, or realizing it can't be fixed) through time. Thus it is easy to me because the number of steps required (which take time to learn so it is really just time) and the time are of no consequence. I can work on this bug for a long, long time, if necessary. It is nice to live a life of leisure where I can pick and choose the problems I want to solve because I'm not materalistic.
I ran into an arguement that fixing cars is "hard". I work on my own car, because I felt like it. Learning how to work on cars (which for me was overcoming the fear of breaking something and having an extra expense or dying) takes time. Spending the time to earn money to buy tools, or make your own tools is of course said to be "hard" because anything that takes time is "hard" in our society.
So maybe instead of getting all worked up, you could read my post and think "hmm he is going to work on it a lot, for a long time, learn how to fix it, and he doesn't think its hard, because what makes it hard for the EB team, isn't what makes things hard for him."
So drop the idea that there is a universal hard, and be happy. And drop the idea of universal complex to, because how this bug is complex, is relative to what you compare to it. This bug is not hard, nor complex, compared to other things I have overcome. This attitude is one that wills Ann Wolfe to be one of the best boxers in the world, and it can empower you too.
Going even deeper, we can drop hard and easy from our vocab, and just say "this exists, it need to be altered so we can use it differently". Something being hard or easy doesn't help us solve it. So in conclusion, not only should I stop saying the bug is easy, but the EB team should stop whining about hard it is, because they don't exist until you define them. And of course by labeling it as hard it doesn't tell us anything. Which is why I said it was easy, to show how quickly things can be redefined and how useless a tag it is.
Finally, I don't join teams, for a variety of reasons. One being that joining a team requires you give up a measure of your individual goals, in order to seek the team's goals. Furthermore, they often have their own "laws" of what is acceptable and not acceptable, which may or may not violate other "legal" laws... ect ect.
So I play Chess, Bad Minton, drag race.. ect ect for those reasons, and furthermore, because if I lose, I have no one to blame but myself, and I can look at the reasons why I lost very objectively.
Those of us who actually know what we are talking about will continue to work on the problems until they are solved, or we determine they cannot be solved and work around them, as always. Others who talk a lot yet produce nothing will, well, talk a lot but produce nothing of value, as always.
Ahh I love you. The best part about this is, the problem isn't solved. So talk. Or don't. But where is the production of value? Looks to me like the problem hasn't been solved. So everyone is talking, and no one is producing anything of value.Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan
When you can't defeat my logic, enter the personal attacks.
Or maybe you're keeping it a secret, you've solved it. I don't know, but that is just fine with me too, less work for me. It seems to me you guys are quite close, if it is indeed too many post battle traits, you're already there. So I hope 1.5 fixes it, and I hope I don't have to work on it. I can be on the bottom rung or the top rung of the "internet social group" and I'll still the be the same.
How do I incite such reactions? I ask a simple question about what is happening with the reinforcement CTD, and everyone gets out their torches...
Of course that question was never answered..."Is the file going to the be same and we just swap it out when we can't get past a battle?", because ripping on me was more important. As always =)
Shush
I want to reach through the screen and spray your keyboard with some bleach to get you to go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
I work, every single day, most of the day, on pouring content into this mod - many many things "of value". You are absolutely insane fallen. :laugh4: As a suggestion, take a break from the forum till you can play nicely. "I rather admire the insolent civility ov a bull-tarrier, who only growls when i pass by him, but i never did like it in a man."
On another note, the beta test team has been chosen. Let's put this here thread to sleep. Nitey nite folks.
Here's something to have sweet dreams over (one cool pic of a unit we've already previewed before; one of a number of them we showed the betatesters as a welcome present :grin:):
[/cruelty]