John Kerry showing how liberals "Support the Troops"

Tribes and the rest of you (not wasting my time to type you ugys names out) who think it's stupid and foolish to be in the military? Oh Really? I guess you want to be blowed to hell by a Country like North Korea whenever your military disbands because of people like you guys (Kerry,Tribes,Kanamori and the rest,whoever"). They the ones who defend your nation,if you don't respect them, then mabye you should go to Iraw for a year and see how it is....

I know I'm going to get warned for that, but So be it, I had my two cents said,and I'll argue more if needed.

:no:

You're reading too much into it.

All that I've said.. or intended to say.. is that militaries aim to GO AFTER people of a certain group. Not that they ONLY recrtuit those people. I never stated that all SOLDIERS are fools and idiots. If you're reading it that way, it's your own fault. I've stated MY OPINION clearly. Don't warp and simplify it just to fit your glib remarks.

I think the point Justiciar was trying to make is that in high unemployment areas, the military offers the most viable future for you unless you belong to the small group of kids who only get top grades. And that recruiters know this.
Of course that doesn't mean that the entire military, or even the majority of the military is there because they had no viable alternatives. But it is true for some.

Was Kerry's comment meant for these few unfortunates living in poor neighbourhoods? Or as a broad sweeping insult to all armed forces? Probably the former, but he should have been more careful with his wording.

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Was Kerry's comment meant for these few unfortunates living in poor neighbourhoods?

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Considering he was speaking at a large University to students who had already been accepted, paid the fees, and were attending, I doubt it.

Now the American Legion (made up of vets) is also demanding an apology:

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To: National Desk

Contact: Ramona Joyce, 202-263-2982 or 202-445-1161 (cell), Joe March, 317-630-1253 or 317-748-1926 (cell), both of the American Legion

INDIANAPOLIS, Oct. 31 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The National Commander of The American Legion called on Sen. John Kerry to apologize for suggesting that American troops in Iraq are uneducated.

"As a constituent of Senator Kerry's I am disappointed. As leader of The American Legion, I am outraged," said National Commander Paul A. Morin. "A generation ago, Sen. Kerry slandered his comrades in Vietnam by saying that they were rapists and murderers. It wasn't true then and his warped view of today's heroes isn't true now."

While addressing a group of college students at a campaign rally in Pasadena, CA., Monday, Kerry suggested that they receive an education or "if you don't, you'll get stuck in Iraq."

"While The American Legion shares the senator's appreciation for education, the troops in Iraq represent the most sophisticated, technologically superior military that the world has ever seen," Morin said. "I think there is a thing or two that they could teach most college professors and campus elitists about the way the world works.

"And while we are on the topic of education, why doesn't the senator and his comrades in Congress improve the GI Bill so all of today's military members - reserves and guard included - can achieve the educational aspirations that the senator so highly values?" Morin said. "The senator's false and outrageous attack was over-the-top and he should apologize now."

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Also, a mother of a marine killed in Iraq is demanding an apology:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...20/detail.html

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Second Lt. Joshua Booth died on Oct. 17. His mother said that what makes Kerry's words so offensive is that they come one day after Kerry called the family to offer condolences.

"We did appreciate the call. I am appreciative of anyone who reaches out to me and to then turn around and say something that is so totally incorrect," Booth said.

As to whether Kerry should apologize, Booth said that Kerry needs to do more to make amends.

"In addition to apologizing, he needs to learn a little bit about what our men and women in the military are actually made up of," Booth said. "We don't want to send that kind of signal, that you only go into the military if you are not good at anything."

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Kerry got himself into a deep hole, and he keeps on digging. People are going to realize that the growing number of veteran groups calling for an apology aren't GOP members, they're mainstream Americans who fought to defend out country. The dems might be able to screw up whatever lead they have going into national elections.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Tribes and the rest of you (not wasting my time to type you ugys names out) who think it's stupid and foolish to be in the military? Oh Really? I guess you want to be blowed to hell by a Country like North Korea whenever your military disbands because of people like you guys (Kerry,Tribes,Kanamori and the rest,whoever"). They the ones who defend your nation,if you don't respect them, then mabye you should go to Iraw for a year and see how it is....

I know I'm going to get warned for that, but So be it, I had my two cents said,and I'll argue more if needed.

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To be fair, it should be noted that Tribesy is far more disparaging of the USA's current leadership cadre than he is of the U.S. military. He considers the current administration a collection of what Moltke called the worst sub-class of leader "industrious but stupid." To the extent that he lobs shots at the military it is mostly a call for the military to cease taking orders from a group he views as idiotic, down tools, and go home.

On a larger note, however, Tribesy is also incapable (at least seemingly) of expressing a positive assessment of any political leader or government. His unrelenting cynicism is off-putting, as is his all-too-frequent penchant for quips at the expense of those articulating the other side of an argument.

Seamus your original post in this thread is the only one in it which is clear and reasonable. All the other have posted their normal pointless bickering remarks, which get so tiresome. Don't ruin it by getting involved with the character assassinations which so mar this forum.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Kerry was applying the Vietnam model to Iraq, wherein once the draft started it was indeed the less educated who were less likely to avoid the call up, the model which he experienced from his time in the military.

Of course that may not be accurate in the current situation, certainly not when the armed forces are currently made up of professionals rather than conscripts.

Armed forces and their leaders are always equipped, both physically and mentally, to fight the last war, not the next.

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Originally Posted by Slyspy

Seamus your original post in this thread is the only one in it which is clear and reasonable. All the other have posted their normal pointless bickering remarks, which get so tiresome. Don't ruin it by getting involved with the character assassinations which so mar this forum.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Kerry was applying the Vietnam model to Iraq, wherein once the draft started it was indeed the less educated who were less likely to avoid the call up, the model which he experienced from his time in the military.

Of course that may not be accurate in the current situation, certainly not when the armed forces are currently made up of professionals rather than conscripts.

Armed forces and their leaders are always equipped, both physically and mentally, to fight the last war, not the next.

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I try to resist. I honestly do prefer a "civilized" argument.

I do think Kerry is wrong in his assessments of US military capability and the parameters for its proper use. On the other hand, the full quotation of his SMART commentary was, to be fair, a considered opinion with some value. I was not one of the GOPers who derided his bravery or his tenure of service in Vietnam.

I live in an area with lots of military. They have their nimrods as does any other sphere of endeavor, but on the whole they are a pretty bright and dedicated group. In modern combat the level of technology required makes it harder and harder to use the strong back/weak brain type in the military.

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Originally Posted by John Kerry
education if you make the most of it, study hard and do your homework and make an effort to be smart you'll do well. If you don't you get stuck in iraq.

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I belive if one takes more time reading over this sentence, one may see that it deos not in-fact state that only idiots are serving in the armed forces of the United States of America. He has simply said that if you do not work hard or get smart you will end up in Iraq, he did not say, people who get smart and work hard are not the ones that get stuck in Iraq. Did he? I belive he is telling students (quite rightly) to work hard, or they will end up in a job that they do not wan't. Where as people who do work hard, have more options, and if they do end up in Iraq it they are not stuck there, for they are proud to be there. He has not denied that educated and smart people do join the armed forces.

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Seamus your original post in this thread is the only one in it which is clear and reasonable. All the other have posted their normal pointless bickering remarks, which get so tiresome. Don't ruin it by getting involved with the character assassinations which so mar this forum.

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Woe!

Those people do tire me so, I just don't know how I carry on posting and reading here.

Woe!

Why do I have to post like they're not human, I do hate it?

(Mirrors are useful.)

If Kerry isn't on Karl Rove's payroll, he should be. Wow, the man is a gift that keeps on giving. This should rally the Republican base nicely.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

If Kerry isn't on Karl Rove's payroll, he should be. Wow, the man is a gift that keeps on giving. This should rally the Republican base nicely.

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Do you agree or disagree with him?

Do you actually care? I disagree with him completely. It's a bone-headed thing to say, both inaccurate and insulting to our soldiers.

I know that's not what you want me to say, though. Don't worry. I'll have an opinion you can get worked up about any minute.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Do you actually care? I disagree with him completely. It's a bone-headed thing to say, both inaccurate and insulting to our soldiers.

I know that's not what you want me to say, though. Don't worry. I'll have an opinion you can get worked up about any minute.

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Actually, I'm glad you have that opinion, I was just asking, you never know.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Actually, I'm glad you have that opinion, I was just asking, you never know.

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Are you targeting him or just what you perceive he stands for?

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do your homework and make an effort to be smart

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Ther you go, he stated that you do you're homework to be smart. Not because you already are. I would have thought that many would agree with this statement, as underachieving is never a good thing, and that under achievers end up with no options. He did not state.

Do you're homework and be smart. Because only the dumbasses don't so theirs and they end up in Iraq.
He never said anything about a pre-defined intelligence, he actually meant something a person can work on.

meh, I don't lnow if I'm making any sense here.

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Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

I belive if one takes more time reading over this sentence, one may see that it deos not in-fact state that only idiots are serving in the armed forces of the United States of America. He has simply said that if you do not work hard or get smart you will end up in Iraq, he did not say, people who get smart and work hard are not the ones that get stuck in Iraq. Did he? I belive he is telling students (quite rightly) to work hard, or they will end up in a job that they do not wan't. Where as people who do work hard, have more options, and if they do end up in Iraq it they are not stuck there, for they are proud to be there. He has not denied that educated and smart people do join the armed forces.

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No his statement says, if you are not smart, if you dont work hard, if you can't study, you are going to be in Iraq. Sorry, if you arent smart, your generally an idiot. If you don't work hard your lazy. If you can't study, you have no will power. So indeed if you spend time reading it, he actually said if your in Iraq your a lazy meak idiot. It's disgusting and it was not aimed at the disfortunate for which I could possibly see a better worded statement like this helping. Instead it was targeted at college students who only have one week until they vote.

It's a vile an repulsive lump of words gathered into a foul statement. He needs to do more then just apologize this time, he's done this not once but many times before, he's forsaken his fellow veteran's and those still bravely serving.

I can see what hes trying to say to students who are likely to be very very scared by the idea of fighting in Iraq to work harder "or else" he just got it completely wrong :shame:

I dont think he was deliberately insulting to the military, just criminally unthinking - he is of that particular mindset who belive that the army is a bunch of unthinking losers (not true), but very hard for him to cover up - as an extremely intelligent politician (yes, politicians are intelligent) it must be very hard for him to think of someone who doesnt do well in school as a living person.

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I belive if one takes more time reading over this sentence, one may see that it deos not in-fact state that only idiots are serving in the armed forces of the United States of America. He has simply said that if you do not work hard or get smart you will end up in Iraq, he did not say, people who get smart and work hard are not the ones that get stuck in Iraq. Did he? I belive he is telling students (quite rightly) to work hard, or they will end up in a job that they do not wan't. Where as people who do work hard, have more options, and if they do end up in Iraq it they are not stuck there, for they are proud to be there. He has not denied that educated and smart people do join the armed forces.

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I think i agree with this, he didnt mean to sounds so derogatry, but the way he says it is entirely wrong, apology needed.
(but if he apologises i hope everyone leaves it alone, one of the reasons politicians dont like apologising is because the media just carry on after they've admitted their mistake.)

:2thumbsup:

despite what he may have meant (in all fairness Bush is ripped up for his verbal blunders), John Kerry has officially been PWNZERED. What a tard

This guy is far worse than bush as when bush makes a verbal slip up we all know its because he isnt the brightest pebble on the beach - kerry doesnt have that excuse, hes a bright man who seem's to have everything going for him politician - he is a veteran with a exemplary military career who has the right background to make it - if only he could keep his mouth shut!

The statement is plainly a mistake i dont believe he thinks the anyone in that military is stupid but i do believe the statement reads that way. He should apologise and explain what he meant fully.

I agree with John Kerry's Iraq statement.

That statement is not criticizing everyone who joins the military, rather just those unwise enough to get stuck in Iraq.

Surely being against a war is not in any way the same as being against the Military. The Military follows orders from politicians - regardless of what they are (with very few exceptions).

I am against the current deployment of troops, but I am still thinking of joining the TA - if I can get my fitness up and checkups done.

There are many stupid people in the Army. There are many stupid people in Wall Mart.

There are some very clever people in the Army. There are some very clever people in Wall Mart.

What use is intellect in every member of the Armed forces? When soldiers are ordered to attack, a debate on the rights of man is not required, following the orders is. The discussion happens many levels over their heads. The troopers are the muscle, the top brass (we hope) are the brains. Or failing the ones at the top, those in planning hopefully have some ability.

For a politician to come out and say "some people are smart, others aren't. Basically that's determined by your parents, and though nurture can help, you can't polish a horse apple." just isn't going to happen. The pretence of equality needs to be maintained.

Groundpounders are probably less smart, have lower grades and generally did less well at school. College grads enter on commissions (I'd joining the TA as a Captain, if I wait 2 years I enter as a Major).

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Navaros

That statement is not criticizing everyone who joins the military, rather just those unwise enough to get stuck in Iraq.

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That's a rather odd statement - as to my knowledge people are not exactly asked if they would like to go to Iraq once they are in the Army

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Originally Posted by Navaros

I agree with John Kerry's Iraq statement.

That statement is not criticizing everyone who joins the military, rather just those unwise enough to get stuck in Iraq.

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When you are in the military you get ORDERS to go where you go. Its not like you recieve your orders and can say, "Um, no, could I get these changed to Japan". You get orders, you go. If not, you're AWOL.

Dear Sir,

I would rather not be posted to Iraq on the grounds that it might be harmful to my state of health. If you have any desk jobs going in Hawaii please consider me more than willing to do my duty.

Signed

The Unlikely Soldier.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Surely being against a war is not in any way the same as being against the Military. The Military follows orders from politicians - regardless of what they are (with very few exceptions).

I am against the current deployment of troops, but I am still thinking of joining the TA - if I can get my fitness up and checkups done.

There are many stupid people in the Army. There are many stupid people in Wall Mart.

There are some very clever people in the Army. There are some very clever people in Wall Mart.

What use is intellect in every member of the Armed forces? When soldiers are ordered to attack, a debate on the rights of man is not required, following the orders is. The discussion happens many levels over their heads. The troopers are the muscle, the top brass (we hope) are the brains. Or failing the ones at the top, those in planning hopefully have some ability.

For a politician to come out and say "some people are smart, others aren't. Basically that's determined by your parents, and though nurture can help, you can't polish a horse apple."

Groundpounders are probably less smart, have lower grades and generally did less well at school. College grads enter on commissions (I'd joining the TA as a Captain, if I wait 2 years I enter as a Major).

~:smoking:

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Long quote, but i like the way this is put :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

When you are in the military you get ORDERS to go where you go. Its not like you recieve your orders and can say, "Um, no, could I get these changed to Japan". You get orders, you go. If not, you're AWOL.

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argeed. I have Family members who served in the Army,including my dad, and if you get told to go somewhere, you go, plain and simple, stop complaining..

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

The man never could tell a joke. What college was this where he got roaring applause?

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Pasadena Community College, outside L.A. 370 students attended a "town hall"-type campaign rally for P. Angelides, Democrat candidate for governor. L.A. Mayor & Sen. B.Boxer were also there.

Some Pasadena CC alums:

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Jackie Robinson, first African American in major league baseball
William Holden, actor best known for Sunset Blvd. and Sabrina
David Lee Roth, rock musician, (dropped out)
Nick Nolte, actor
Sirhan Sirhan, Robert F. Kennedy's assassin
Michael Dorn, actor, best known as Worf on Star Trek
Verne Winchell, founder of Winchell's Donuts and former chairman of Denny's Restaurants
Nicholas Brendon, Xander on Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Jaime Escalante, former Garfield High School (Los Angeles) teacher, whose successful math class was dramatized in Stand and Deliver.
Alex Van Halen, drummer of Van Halen
Larry Shinoda, famed automobile designer

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What Kerry was supposed to say (from prepared remarks by his speechwriter):

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"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

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Quite a long way from what actually jumped out of his ad-libbing mouth.

Dude oughtta stick to knock-knock jokes.

Oh... and apologize.

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"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

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That makes a whole lot more sense...

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

That makes a whole lot more sense...

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It makes even less sense to me - if that's what he meant, why he is defending his earlier erroneous ad lib? If he meant to say the above, why didn't he just apologise for goofing up his speech and for the offense his mistake caused? Yet now he appears to be trying to rationalise a position he didn't even mean.

Why can't politicians ever bring themselves to say sorry? :furious3:

On the other side of the issue, I can't help wondering if the level of anger aimed at the hapless Kerry wouldn't be better aimed at the idiotic hubris that is actually costing soldiers' lives.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Why can't politicians ever bring themselves to say sorry?

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You lose that ability as soon as you go into politics. If you do apologize for anything that your're not going to get arrested for, you'll be in a much worse position.