Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
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Originally Posted by Don Esteban
Lkewise the Jihads should also be much arger than a few hundred men (which is the best argument for spamming Jihads but as has been pointed out this goes too far in the other direction and has other problems as well).
They should have taken longer to build ,cost more, require a larger donation to the pope, require you to be at piece with your fellow catholics, be a lot larger and be more flexible regarding their movements. e.g. I should be able to camp the crusade at venice and wait for fleets to be in position to transport them into the objective province. They also need to take away the dependency on the chapter house, and have the crusade as an option that requires you to send an emissary to the pope. Having the chapter house should enable you to recruit the order knights (in the same way that the inns recruit mercenaries.) Unfortunately you can't mod them, apart from their cost.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
You can increase the cost and the time it takes for a crusade to be built, which is what Wes has done in MedMod and the end result is quite nice - playing with the Cumans for over 200 years I saw only one Crusade, which the French managed to send to Tripoli by sea, using the fleets of the Genoese and the Sicilians. Another good feature of the MedMod crusades is the unique, unobtainable otherwise troops, and the large numbers of them per crusade - not just a few units, but a full stack. Same applies to Jihads - I am yet to see one in the MedMod which I have not built myself. With 5,000 florins per jihad and a grand mosque as a requirement, which is much better than the cheap and easy to build ribat if you ask me, they are simply unaffordable and far less effective. While this is not a perfect way to deal with jihads and crusades, it works nicely.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
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Originally Posted by Caravel
Back in the day I remember losing Georgia to the Mongols once and declaring 15 jihads to get it back....
Funny you should say that, as it was an incident with the Mongols that caused me to realize how cheesy (not to mention overpowered) multiple Jihads are.
I was playing the Fatamids in XL, and had just lost Khazar to the Golden Horde. Furious at being defeated by the heathens, I used about - I want to say 8 or so - Jihads to create an army that (by the time it reached Khazar) numbered about 35,000 men. It easily defeated the Mongol force, which was little more than half the size of my own.
After that, I decided I couldn't spam Jihads like that anymore. While fun, it just made things too much of a cakewalk.
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Originally Posted by Kavhan Isbul
Same applies to Jihads - I am yet to see one in the MedMod which I have not built myself. With 5,000 florins per jihad and a grand mosque as a requirement, which is much better than the cheap and easy to build ribat if you ask me, they are simply unaffordable and far less effective. While this is not a perfect way to deal with jihads and crusades, it works nicely.
Interesting. I think the grand mosque as a requirement for Jihads is reasonable, but the 5000-florin price tag seems a little steep to me. Not that they should be a mere 500 florins, but I would probably set the price at 2000-2500 or so.
Of course, the problem is that even at "only" 2500 florins, the Muslim factions will probably never launch a Jihad when controlled by the AI, as it seems they rarely have that kind of cash on hand. So either way, it's probably damned if you do, and damned if you don't.... :shrug:
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
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Originally Posted by Brandy Blue
Actually, Pope Innocent III declared a crusade against the Cathars in Southern France. That is how the king of France became powerful in Southern France, which had been a contested region before that time. He provided the troops to crush the Cathars (considered heretics by the Catholics) You can find more about it on the web under the name Albigensian Crusade.
Also, a crusade was declared against Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II. So crusades against disgraced Catholics are probably legit historically.
The Albigensian Crusade was against heretical basically non-catholics though and in the sense of MTW would be a crudsade against a rebel province which is fine.
As for the crusade against Frederick II, yes it was declared but I don't think the common people exactly swarmed to join!
What did also occur were crusades against Prussia, Lithuania etc which were pagan at the time and let to the Teutonic Knights setting up their own state.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Interesting. I think the grand mosque as a requirement for Jihads is reasonable, but the 5000-florin price tag seems a little steep to me. Not that they should be a mere 500 florins, but I would probably set the price at 2000-2500 or so.
Of course, the problem is that even at "only" 2500 florins, the Muslim factions will probably never launch a Jihad when controlled by the AI, as it seems they rarely have that kind of cash on hand. So either way, it's probably damned if you do, and if you don't.... :shrug:
You've hit on something there. The Grand Mosque as the Prerequisite for jihads would give the "holy struggle" the true epicentre that it needs. Only one marker per year could be produced, which would be ideal. Upping the cost and build times would also increase their importance. The ribat could instead be used as a prerequisite for fanatical troops such as the Hashishin (Nizari Fedayeen), Nizari (Nizari Foot Soldiers) and also the Ghazi Infantry.
The same could be done for Jihads. The cost could be increased and also the build time. Increasing the build time alone would give less crusades. Also the chapter house could form the prerequisite for certain knightly orders in certain provinces. Units can also be modded to determin how likely they are to appear in crusades, this would reduce the amount of, e.g. peasants appearing and increase the amount of order foot soldiers. The knightly orders were not exactly commonplace either so the chapter house could be made a unique building if necessary.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
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Originally Posted by Caravel
You've hit on something there. The Grand Mosque as the Prerequisite for jihads would give the "holy struggle" the true epicentre that it needs. Only one marker per year could be produced, which would be ideal. Upping the cost and build times would also increase their importance. The ribat could instead be used as a prerequisite for fanatical troops such as the Hashishin (Nizari Fedayeen), Nizari (Nizari Foot Soldiers) and also the Ghazi Infantry.
I concur with that in full. I would only caution to not make Jihads too expensive (in terms of both cost and time required), as they're still at a disadvantage when compared to Crusades.
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Originally Posted by Caravel
Also the chapter house could form the prerequisite for certain knightly orders in certain provinces.
Not sure by what you mean by this. Do you mean to place chapter houses could only be built in provinces where the various Orders were historically available?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Units can also be modded to determin how likely they are to appear in crusades, this would reduce the amount of, e.g. peasants appearing and increase the amount of order foot soldiers. The knightly orders were not exactly commonplace either so the chapter house could be made a unique building if necessary.
Agreed. I think the amount of Knights per Crusade is generally about right, but there should probably be far more Order foot soldiers than Fanatics. :yes:
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
You've hit on something there. The Grand Mosque as the Prerequisite for jihads would give the "holy struggle" the true epicentre that it needs. Only one marker per year could be produced, which would be ideal. Upping the cost and build times would also increase their importance. The ribat could instead be used as a prerequisite for fanatical troops such as the Hashishin (Nizari Fedayeen), Nizari (Nizari Foot Soldiers) and also the Ghazi Infantry.
The same could be done for Jihads. The cost could be increased and also the build time. Increasing the build time alone would give less crusades. Also the chapter house could form the prerequisite for certain knightly orders in certain provinces. Units can also be modded to determin how likely they are to appear in crusades, this would reduce the amount of, e.g. peasants appearing and increase the amount of order foot soldiers. The knightly orders were not exactly commonplace either so the chapter house could be made a unique building if necessary.
Sounds like a fine solution - maybe thatway Jihads could be used to attack new areas as well as take back previously held lands.
Incidentaly playing as the crusader states in XL the AI has just attacked me with multiple Jihads - I am now fully converted to the one Jihad at a time rule now I've been on the recieving end :wall:
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
I concur with that in full. I would only caution to not make Jihads too expensive (in terms of both cost and time required), as they're still at a disadvantage when compared to Crusades.
Agreed. Jihads should probably be quite a bit cheaper. another problem with Jihads is muslim zeal. It's always very lacking.
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Originally Posted by Martok
Not sure by what you mean by this. Do you mean to place chapter houses could only be built in provinces where the various Orders were historically available?
Chapter houses would be built in any province, there is no way around this, well there is, adding a "resource" and making the chapter house dependant upon it (in much the same way that a mine depends on salt, copper, silver or gold for example) but that is not something I can see working to well. I was thinking more of chapter houses in conjunction with certain armourers/spearmakers/bowyers/horsebreeders being able to train i.e. Knights of Santiago in Leon, or Hospitallers in Rhodes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Agreed. I think the amount of Knights per Crusade is generally about right, but there should probably be far more Order foot soldiers than Fanatics. :yes:
I often see crusades made up of 4 units of fanatics. I think the order foot soldiers need a boost and the knights also, though to a lesser degree.
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Originally Posted by Don Esteban
Sounds like a fine solution - maybe thatway Jihads could be used to attack new areas as well as take back previously held lands.
Unfortunately the behaviour of Jihads and Crusades is hardcoded, so it won't be possible to send Jihads against just any target, or against only non muslims. The existing Jihads are actually ahistorical in that they should function exactly like crusades enabling you to declare a jihad at any non muslim province on the map, though without the endorsement of a pope like figure (the Caliph).
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
I was thinking more of chapter houses in conjunction with certain armourers/spearmakers/bowyers/horsebreeders being able to train i.e. Knights of Santiago in Leon, or Hospitallers in Rhodes.
Ah, I see! I personally would very much like to see this, as I've always hated that you can't train/retrain Crusade units. Excellent idea, Caravel. :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
I often see crusades made up of 4 units of fanatics. I think the order foot soldiers need a boost and the knights also, though to a lesser degree.
I'll take your word for it. I'm probably more familiar with the Spanish's Crusades, which generally have a good number of Order knights (due to the provinces of northern Iberia starting with fairly high Zeal). I'm almost tempted to say that Fanatics should be gotten rid of altogether, but they do admittedly make for cheap (yet fairly effective) cannon fodder.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
I'm almost tempted to say that Fanatics should be gotten rid of altogether, but they do admittedly make for cheap (yet fairly effective) cannon fodder.
NO!!!!! I just love slaughtering Fanatic infidels in the name of Islam :laugh4:
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
I played with the Almohads in medMod and I was wrong - a Jihad costs only 2,000 florints, but takes 5 yeras to build, and since the grand mosque is the requirement, only one province can build Jihads. While I have not seen the AI build Jihads (the Muslim AIs in MedMod tend to be weak), building one is quite rewarding as you get unique troops generally better than what you can produce. Crusades also tend to be big - you get a full stack of some really nice units. I thin it took 10 years and a lot of florints to build a crusade, but that makes that improves the game quite a lot, as capturing a Crusade target really feels like an accomplishment. I think fanatics should part of a Crusade's composition though, as this is historically realistic.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
Here are a few of my rules (I play on expert with XL)
1. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER give any titles to any generals.
2. When conquering a province, not to improve on the farming, only fortifications and troop building facilities
3. AI controlled taxes
4. Since XL has two year recruitment times, I usually takes a while to build up an army
5. Not to expand my naval dominance throughout the whole map, only the areas where I control
Yeah, that's it. It proves to be very challenging economy wise. But when I didn't do that, I would always have 300k+ florins after 150 years or so.
Oh, and I'm starting to use green generals. It was pretty rediculous how the same general could live for 400 years.
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
I made up these in order to role-play the game more and add to the challenge:
The rules are as follows:
The AI can control for the player the following vital 5:
a)building construction
b)unit recruitment
c)agent recruitment
d)tax management
e)title management
So, i turn them all over to the AI and give one back to my control for every:
-3 stars of king influence.
-1 level of the "builder" trait for my king.
Essentially this is a measure of the power of the king over his domains. This complements well with say the high Byzantine influence and the general "low" influence of catholic rulers in a historica manner.
A 6 influence & magnificent builder or a 9 influence great builder will reign supreme.
Most of the time this leaves you with at least one of the above under your control which should be enough to ensure survival.
In this way the game is controled by the AI for a significant amount of time that prevents me from making optimal use of resources abstracting the kings "hold" over his kingdom into the game. This is really the case as successions drop again the player's hold on his kingdom and thus things may get slow or even go wrong even if you are in a position of strength.
Actually the AI doesn't do all that bad in automanaging, unless you leave the building choices to him in which case things turn hectic.
It feels more like playing a series of historical battles and following some key character's course in "history", rather than playing a game. It also adds a king-centric perception to the game.
Other than that:
-No delibarate destruction of facilities buildings
-No slaughtering of prisoners
-No edge camping (battles)
-No use of second bridge (battles)
-GA mode only
-No rebellion harvesting
-No exploits on known facts (as the mechanisms that trigger the horde and its date of appearance)
-Homelands (either modded in or abstracted by me for my faction - i prefer them restricted in a historical manner
-Negative loaylty title bonus for certain provinces (Anatolia, Burgundy, Epirus)
-No use of inquisitors whatsoever other than cow heretics (lately i'm thinking to completely mod them out except for the Papacy)
Re: Do you have any personal rules for MTW?
I have some personal rules to make the Viking Campaign more challenging:
- You can only build Thralls, Landsmen, Berserkers, Cavalry, and Bowmen. You can upgrade their weapons and armor as you wish, through.
-Coming from the previous one: you can only use family born huscarles, and only one by army (to reflect they´re the general´s bodyguard). For that matter, you can only use huscarles as army leaders. You can´t build them, but you can retrain them.
-Whenever it´s possible, you must lead your armies with your king, and get him in the fringe (come on, Ragnar I starts with "Mighty warrior". I cannot imagine this viking leader not chopping heads around him with an axe. It´s what he does for a living)
