japan as the next expansion plz

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Originally Posted by Marquis of Roland

What I am trying to say is, if you made a campaign for the Americas, there will be so many factors linked back to Europe that it'd be very difficult to base the better part of the game on the Americas rather than Europe. Hence, what I said in my earlier post. It'd also be very difficult to come up with decent faction selection with an Americas-based campaign. You practically can't pick any European faction to be a faction in the game because almost all of their source of production and military is coming from Europe, so it'd be just easier (and more fun IMO) if you included America in a European-based campaign instead of the other way around.

You will be hard-pressed to find anyone that would like to see Romance of the Three Kingdoms: Total War more than I do (my favorite book). However, as far as what CA or sega would do, they probably won't make it because a later setting for Asia (pretty much around the same time frame for MTW2) can include more countries/factions, unit types, etc. For example, at the time of the Three Kingdoms period, Japan was nothing more than a scattered collection of primitive tribes. I know one thing for sure though: if Sega does decide to make a Three Kingdoms: Total War, it WILL sell like hotcakes in EVERY Asian country, and the number of people with computers in China alone now outnumbers the entire population of the United States.

As far as unit selection I think a Asia:TW may have more units than MTW2.

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japan was powerful, not a bunch of rabble, otherwise china would have conquered it. its early wars were no different that the wars of europe, just on a smaller piece of land, and as i'm sure you know, they eventually had influence far beyond the island of japan

asia is far more interesting, and has been barely explored by the franchise than the same old europe map

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Originally Posted by Mailman653

I hope CA does not take a page out of EA's book and decide to go with a TW:2163 game or something like that.

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The concept would be nice. However, the style of modern warfare would change gameplay drastically since men do not clump together to form a packed battle line or else they'd be gunned down quickly. Plus there's a whole other set of complicated factors to consider that perhaps can't be put into the total war series.

However, I think the Napoleonic mods were a good foray into the concept of pre-modern warfare.

Would love to see Japan revisited especially if it started in, say, the 10th Century with the Revolt of Taira Masakado and included China and Korea for the Yuan Mongol invasions of the 13th Century...

There's also a poll on the "official" board:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...cID=1133.topic

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Originally posted by sabutai

hmm i found the units of "warrior monks" kinda cheese, i forget if kensei were in the original release

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Well, regardless of what you find, they are perfectly historical. Various Buddhist Sects were having significant power (ceded to them centuries before by the Emperor himself) and were imposing taxes in any merchantise passing whithin the territories under their control. Their monasteries were places of intense cultural, martial and commercial activity. Their outfits and weapons are also historically correct as CA was very well aware of Stephen Turnbull's work and based them on illustrations in his books. Oda Nobunaga purged them brutally as he forsaw that control was impossible with them on the way. They were acting as "mercenaries" to the aid of those clans that were helping them with further their interests and sphere of control, which justifies the discount the Mori clan has for recruiting them.

The fantasy units were the battlefield ninja and the kansai and they were both introduced in the STW/MI together with the Naginata cavalry, that can be said to be whithin the sphere of reason as a unit. All units stats were altered breaking the original RPS of Shogun and making the guns overpowered.

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Originally Posted by sabutai

japan was powerful, not a bunch of rabble, otherwise china would have conquered it. its early wars were no different that the wars of europe, just on a smaller piece of land, and as i'm sure you know, they eventually had influence far beyond the island of japan

asia is far more interesting, and has been barely explored by the franchise than the same old europe map

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The Japanese during the Yayoi period (the same time period as the three kingdoms period in China) did pay tribute to China. China traditionally doesn't conquer other countries, they just make them pay tribute. The Yayoi period Japanese had some bronze working, and some basic iron tech from China at the time. So pretty much no samurai or whatnot, that came a couple hundred years later. China sent a delegation to the Japanese islands at the time of the Three Kingdoms period and they brought back a report on the various individual tribes they encountered (so Japan lacked a central government at the time, most governing bodies were on the tribal level). This report is part of the San Guo Zhi history of the Three Kingdoms period. Now if China wasn't consumed by the infighting of the Three Kingdoms period at the time, and had they REALLY wanted to conquer Japan, they probably could've done so rather easily.

I believe the period of Japanese military history you're referring to came much, much later, when Japanese culture had developed into the feudal system (about 12th century or so, so about 1000 years later than the period I was referring to).

I really dont fancy Japan on this one...

BUt I would be happy to see the game developed a lot more...so I could bear whatever they threw at me...in that respect.

Bring on the sea battles. I am not a fan of the auto-resolve. I also like the idea of the Napoleonic era. It would be good to just carry on into the next time period where M2TW finishes. That way we could go from the Roman times (RTW/BI) all the way up to and maybe even into WW1. There are many games beyond that period so it would be good to stop at that point. Also, yes to a Shogun remake with the new engine. Would be cool!!!:yes:

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Originally Posted by sabutai

ahhh but you purposely excluded me saying europe...a classic example of a statement being taken out of context :thumbsdown:

if you wanna do america, fine; but it couldnt be done in an expansion, its far too complex a situation, and frankly cant be done with the "total war" style gameplay, ca would need to reinvent the franchise to make a game thats even halfway decent.

whats the angle? 3 european powers on the americas to fight it out against each other and those poor hapless indians, standing around much like rebels waiting to have a "province" taken?

i think your banking too much on the creativity of the creative assembly to ever have this come to fruition, other than a shameless title to sell units :no:

even a napoleanic expansion would be rather bland in my opinion, and too easy.

yet i think most are correct, it will be either a napoleanic or american expansion, it simply makes sense from the view of getting units sold

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I ought to be ashamed for taking your statement out of context.

I don't think the expansion will be Napoleon, I think the expansion will be the colonization of America (or maybe the Rennaisance?) and then the next game Napoleon.

Here's the deal though... after the middle ages, with the discovery of america and the age of exploration, the conflict between european nations became global in scale. Total War doesn't just model the fights, it models the economic production as well. You can't really have "just america" or "just Napoleon in europe" under the current TW concept. At this point, battles and economic activity were literally spread around the world.

Creating a "more focused" TW could eliminate most of the important things the campaign map is used for... economics would almost have to be thrown out the door to accommodate any european nation in the colonial age in just one section of the world. In TW we are used to managing entire nations... giving us anything less would be lame.

So really, any post-middle ages TW needs to involve almost the whole globe.

JCoyote, that pretty much echoes what I was (trying to) saying.

The expansion should be post middle ages, say, Rennaissance to Imperial age.

Shogun 2 or Asia Total War would be much better as the next game in the franchise, I feel. For an expansion I think something like... Arab Invasion set after Mohammed's death when the Muslims conquer their Empire and beat the Romans and the Persians in a number of interesting battles which would make for interesting historical battles. Also it fits CA's habit of naming every expansion (except Alexander as of now) the same thing; "Something Invasion"

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Originally Posted by Randarkmaan

Shogun 2 or Asia Total War would be much better as the next game in the franchise, I feel. For an expansion I think something like... Arab Invasion set after Mohammed's death when the Muslims conquer their Empire and beat the Romans and the Persians in a number of interesting battles which would make for interesting historical battles. Also it fits CA's habit of naming every expansion (except Alexander as of now) the same thing; "Something Invasion"

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Randarkmaan, I can see where you're coming from and don't think it's a bad idea but I can't see CA and Sega putting there names anywhere near a product entitled "Arab Invasion" in the current political climate. Anything suggestive of violent aggression by Arabs (without an immediate and clear counter of the same by others) would be very, very bad PR.

That's why I go back to my idea of an expansion from the Europe of M2TW East to India and the Indies, rather than West to the Americas. "M2TW: The Indies" would show the competing European powers struggling for supremacy on the sub-continent and nearby islands against strong and powerful native forces.

This would be a game with real historical context and would be a genuine expansion from the existing game. I agree that China and Japan, whilst undoubtedly interesting in this period, don't fit the bill, as they had very, very little contact with Europe. Better to save them for a full game in their own right, rather than try to cobble them onto this one.

I think it's silly that we expect that Arabs will automatically kill CA if they make a game like that. I mean aren't the Arabs proud of the fact that they managed to conquer the Persian Empire (Sassanid) and trounce the Romans in a number of battles? There wouldn't really be anything "blasphemous" since Mohammed is dead and therefore won't appear.
Though I guess what you fear is that this will be interpreted by Arabs as a case against them because they gained their empire mostly by conquest and therefore are likely to see themselves labelled as war-hungry. In most cases people they conquered weren't exactly bereft of their freedom, they were just transferred from one empire to another.

@diotevelli

true dat

what about elephant invasion ;)

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Originally Posted by Randarkmaan

I think it's silly that we expect that Arabs will automatically kill CA if they make a game like that.

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I wasn't suggesting that anyone would kill anyone else, simply that it would be very bad from a PR point-of-view. How many of the Muslims who burned "The Satanic Verses" had read them or truly knew what they were about? Very few, from what interviews at the time and subsequently have suggested. It was enough that someone they trusted told them that the book was an attack on Islam. Why would "Arab Invasion" be any different? There would be a reasonable chance of an outcry across the Arab world, followed by politicians wading in to bemoan the insensitivity of Sega and CA: a PR distaster.

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Originally Posted by Randarkmaan

I mean aren't the Arabs proud of the fact that they managed to conquer the Persian Empire (Sassanid) and trounce the Romans in a number of battles?

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Well, perhaps some are; the Osama bin Ladens of this world clearly are. A lot of others would probably prefer not to have historical differences between Christian West and Muslim Middle East dragged up when there's so much current tension. As you rightly suggest, at a time when many Arabs feel the Western media unfairly represent them as being aggressive and bloodthirsty, there might be more subtle ways to raise the issue.

Right there about the PR. Still it is sad, as it is a very important event and would be really fun to play out in battles in MTWII, though I guess it could always be modded.

I would be happy to see Shogun 2 or another Asia related setting for the next Total War game, but think that the expansion for Medieval 2 should be thematically connected to Medieval Europe in some way or other. I would also like to see a setting based on the ancient Middle East, in a period earlier than Rome.

Mormon Invasion?

I just posted a reply to a thread that is pretty much the same, but hasn't been touched for a while I thought it pertinent to post here aswell. I think essentially we need to remember that any expansion has to be connected to the original era, just look at Rome and BI and Alexander or MTW and VI. We possibly need to think about a similar era put perhaps looking East, West or South. My personal choice, and this is where i repeat my self is as follows.

I think CA should expand eastwards, and i will probably echo many postees sentiments so apologies. If we take the middle east as the furthest point in the map west wards you could expand eastwards all the way to china and India, encompassing many new cultures, religions, architecture and unit types etc... We could see the emergence of Chinggis Khan or Tamerlaine. We could see a more in depth look at the situation in the middle-east circa 11/12th centuries with the break up of the Seljuks. The expansion could lead all the way up to the emergence of the Mughals, and possibly have 'events' such as European powers making trade agreements with Indian princes, monarchs etc. there would be a host of amazing cities to conquer/trade with Agra, Delhi, Samarkand, Tabriz, Isfahan, Kabul. I think this period has the characters, history, and depth to create a perfect expansion pack, and as i said in a previous post, to marry the previous TW titles together.

Any thoughts.....

I had a brief go with EUIII and the learning curve was too stiff. I mainly was interested in playing as Korea. I wish they allowed the use of the "turtle boats" cause they were awesome. Kind of like half boat, half submarine. I personally wouldn't mind and expansion to the Far East.

I think it'd be great fun to have a Shogun2, preferably in the 100 years war period (sengouko jidai, right?). Since I can't play the original Shogun on my computer (CTD) I'd go real crazy if I got a new Samurai game in my lap!!!

I wouldn't mind playing as Uesugi again, they were awesome:balloon2:
If you wan't some inspiration, check out the movie RAN or any other Kurosawa movies :book:

Japan and the Far East I think would make a special 'New' version of the game. As many people have already stated they have enjoyed playing Shogun & MI expansion ( I know I did) A new game incorporating China would be excellent.:bow: Cor!! can you imagine the animation of Samurai fighting in all their glory... I can and it would be excellent. ( Yes I've got a copy of RAN )

The Idea of playing a Napoleonic TW game really does not appeal to me ( They could use the same AI, you know the one where the troops just stand there and gets shot ~:) The idea of rows of soldiers lining up and shooting each other until one side runs away is to me really boring. :shrug:

My personal thoughts on the TW series is that the game is great because of the battles are close up and intense..

So please no musket TW for me.