UFOs what are they and why are they ignored?

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I am glad you took the Airforce explanation of that because they spent a lot of time and money on that and even nitwit reporters poked holes in at least part of it.

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That's exactly what is wrong with your approach, it is deeply conspiratorial. Anything that doesn't fit is designated as a cover-up, contrary evidence is the result of money changing hands and even nit-wit reporters are to be trusted more than scientists. Welcome to Lalaland.

Are you sure you actually read what I posted? We are not talking 'weather balloons', my friend, but highly sophisticated espionage balloons. And Moore is not some Airforce stooge. He was a chief scientist on the project along with Gildenberg who also published his recollections of it. Mogul was a highly secret project (centered in Alamogordo near Roswell) to float seismic balloons over the Soviet Union in order to detect nuclear blasts. Of course the authorities covered this up as best they could, with weather balloon stories and such. That's why the nit-wit reporters had a field day. The leaders of the project actually encouraged UFO stories to cover up their top-secret activities. They were delighted when the UFO-mania spread to the Soviet Union because it meant the Soviets, too, were at a loss as to what they were dealing with. It was only after they shot one down that they knew.

Come on, there is nothing alien about UFO's. Anyone could build one using romanian scientist's Henri Coanda research on aeronautics.It is even rumoured that there ware tests carried out by leading German scientists during WW2 and that subsequent UFO craze was just a cover-up for some more serious stuff such as espionage and unauthorised weather balloons.The problem is that it isn't cheap and very unefficiant. Every age has had it's paranormal phenomena....but is there any link between them? Yes there is,...human imagination. And Fiesherking....please don't tell the MIB's about my post....I don't want to end up on their watchlist for alien empathy....or betraying humanity :skull:

Cronos Impera : I grant you that there are technologies that could lead to these here on earth. I have not said they need be from elsewhere. I only know that people are seeing unexplained things in the sky, not all of which have explanations.

Adrian II : You keep throwing that Conspiracy thing at me, Why? I am not the one using the term and just because there is some government misinformation does not mean that The entire government machine is in on it. I understand that an agency or two might have grounds to redirect or misinform us on part of the topic. That does not mean that I think they are coordinated or conspiratorial.

That said, I do not trust everything a government agent tells me because said agent has a particular agenda which may or may not make sense but is in the interests of his department or agency. This is not a paranoid rambling, I have spent much of my life employed by a few of those agencies. Some times they lie when the truth would do them no harm at all and maybe even some good. One level of the agency may be completely at odds with the other and coordination of who is making the coffee is impossible.

I find it interesting that you ask me if I have read your posts and ask if you have read mine.

I don't dispute that many sightings are easily explained and others may be do to eye problems, but not all of them have been. Some of these could use careful study. No matter the cause, it may have something to teach us.

It has been my experience to see that at times, truth can be far more astonishing than fiction and writing something off as improbable is not always the best course.

Your vehement denial that something could be there puts me in mind of the exsmoker who wants tobacco banned from existence.

Not everything is explained by balloons, swampgas, or optical illusion, and if it ends in magnetic anomaly or even unknown craft that is ok. It does not mean that unknown craft are from outer space. It could prove that such craft are of some deeply secrete project belonging to some government, and if so I would still say we have the right to know more than what we have been told. Government secrecy is not always in the best interests of its citizens. But that doesn't mean that it is a wholesale effort by government or governments to hide these facts.

Governments have big problems with keeping almost anything a secret but if there happened to be something so secret that even most of the leadership doesn't know about it, I would say that is more reason to probe, not less.

Of course conspiracy can mean two or more people trying to foster some cause or conceal evidence of a thing so in that case any secret is most likely conspiratorial in its broadest sense.

I see a lot of smoke and unfounded accusations in your assessments of what I have said or trying to say. I am not saying it has been totally ignored or is a part of a wide spread conspiracy. But maybe I have not been clear enough…

Anyway back to my original question… Tell me why it is a bad idea that independent scientists devote time to studding what these phenomenons may be?

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Banquo, you don't believe in UFO's but you believe that the law of gravity will hold true for the future and the sun will rise tommorow? :shocked2:

:wink: :grin:

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Arggh. :beadyeyes2:

I've just been to deepest Cornwall for a couple of days, and so I am not sure of anything any more.

:wreck:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Adrian II : Your vehement denial that something could be there puts me in mind of the exsmoker who wants tobacco banned from existence.

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Quite the opposite. Just read what I said about Cooper.

When I was a kid I once saw a bird I thought looked like an ivory billed woodpecker. My mom told me it couldn't be because they were extinct. I never saw it again but they have been found in Arkansas and maybe in some other states.
http://www.ivorybill.org/


I was duck hunting with my dad once but to small to have a gun. I told him the ducks were behind us watching us from the trees. He ignored me because ducks don't land in trees. Except for Wood ducks which are what I saw and my less sceptical cousin shot when he turned to look.

I was told that giant squid were only in the movies and were not real…so those who reported them were nuts.

Conventional wisdom is not always correct. Sometimes we need to look a little more and we can find something perhaps amazing or wonderful to behold.

Explanations for UFOs have ranged from optical illusion to theories of unknown life forms living in the atmosphere. How is that so different then any other discovery or rediscovery.

Why not look?


This has made a stir in some circles…I have not had a hard look however.

UFO frenzy ignited by Air Force officer

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53841

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

I've just been to deepest Cornwall for a couple of days, and so I am not sure of anything any more.

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Cornish pasties are delicious. There's something you can be sure of.

Or are they Kernow pasties now?

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

This has made a stir in some circles…I have not had a hard look however.

UFO frenzy ignited by Air Force officer

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53841

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You're not seriously putting forward that web article as anything worth investigating are you?

Only someone who could see the image of Jesus in a slice of toast could perceive a pilot figure in those "enhanced" photos.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I was duck hunting with my dad once but to small to have a gun. I told him the ducks were behind us watching us from the trees.

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I'm sorry, but this tickled me. "We are being watched." :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

the image of Jesus in a slice of toast could perceive a pilot figure in those "enhanced" photos.

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hehehe, check this out BG

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/LOL.jpg

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

I'm sorry, but this tickled me. "We are being watched." :laugh4:

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Glad you like it!



LOL good frag job there….as to the site, I didn't have time to look at the videos but I understand the guy is an expert and had an unsolicited look to see if it had been faked. Supposedly he was looking with what ever high-tech whiz-bang he uses but to me they are still lights…:no:

I don't care if he found they were glowing grasshoppers actually. All I said were people were seeing something. It might be funnier if they were flying clown heads and people weren't trying to find Mother Mary piloting a UFO… Ü

I saw something just like I saw the ducks…..all I have is time so I'll just wait and see

:oops:

Okay, So what is it?

I have not identified the object but I can hardly wait to here some of the things that are going to be said…LOL





Kaliningrad UFO


http://www.kaliningrad.rfn.ru/rnews.html?id=22389&cid=7

Paul Stonehill alerted us to a recent Russian UFO story, involving a yellowish object with an elongated body. At the kaliningrad.rfn.ru website, click on the icon on the right, under the photo, to view video footage. Here is Paul's translation of the article:

A student from Kaliningrad, Russia, was able to film an unidentified flying object over Kaliningrad (Russia). The UFO-like object was sighted in the sky right over the regional center. The luminescent object hovered over General Butkov street, Kaliningrad, in the evening. The yellowish, elongated object slowly and noiselessly moved toward Pregol River. According to witnesses, some time later another object joined the UFO. Ivan Lebedev, a student, at once recognized the flying objects to be “saucers”.

He was at home, listening to music, looked in the window and saw the flying object; took his video camera and decided to film the object. The film was shown to experts. The Kaliningrad physicists-astronomers spent a long time looking at the ten minutes-long blurred video. They did not reach any definite conclusion. They have kept the video film for further research.

The date of the story is 2/16/2007.

FYI:
Koenigsberg is the former name of Kaliningrad, a city situated on the Baltic Sea coast, the farthest western corner of modern Russia. Russia’s Baltic Fleet is headquartered in Kaliningrad, where it controls naval bases at Kronshtadt and Baltiysk (Baltijsk, the old Soviet naval base in Kaliningrad, is still partly restricted; Kaliningrad was a closed town for over 45 years). Formerly the capital of the dukes of Prussia and later the capital of East Prussia, the city was ceded to the Soviet Union in 1945 under the Potsdam agreement. After all, in June of 1941 it was used as a staging ground for one of the main assault zones against Soviet Russia, and remained a very important naval base for the duration of the war. Over one hundred thousand Soviet soldiers lost their lives in the operation to take over the city, and over ninety thousand German troops were taken prisoners…
Paul Stonehill

Interesting topic FK.

Whether UFOs exist isn't in question, we know they exist, but Alien UFOs is another kettle of fish.

Look at some basic facts. Consider the distance to the nearest star other than the sun is something like 4.5 light years away. The nearest planet "believed" to be inhabitable (in its relationship to its star) is something like 50 light years away. For a basic understanding of the vastness of space, the distance to the center of just our galaxy is 28,000 light years away and the universe in total has a radius of about 46 billion light years. Look at the age of the universe, 13.7 billion years old with the earliest formations taking place about 8 billion years ago. Our earth is about 4.5 billion years old and is about halfway through its life span as the sun expands and will incinerate earth in about 4billion years.

Considering all the above, take a look at E=MC2 which expresses the equivalence of mass and energy proportional to the speed of light squared. The mass of an object would increase in relation to its speed as it nears the speed of light. This means to increase to this speed a particle containing any mass would take an infinite amount of energy. But this is academic as only no mass particles like photons can travel at the speed of light.

So now take your flying saucers and consider what speeds they could achieve. In order for their travel here to be completed they would have had to be in space for a very long period of time. It almost begs the position that life evolved on their planet at the point closer to obtaining intelligence than earth, by a long ways.

Of course this is assuming life exists on other planets, evolved rapidly to intelligence, and avoided all the hazards of extinction to reach a state of technology that they could attempt a massive number of space voyages to put that technology into perfection and to locate our little corner of the universe.

The answer to many SciFi'ers, myself included, would be wormholes. However we do not know that they actually exist and in order for them to exist via our mathematical models(which is our basis for them existing) their location of appearance could not be predicted and neither would they be stable enough to last for more than a split second. Not to mention that anything of mass would most likely cease to exist upon passing into a wormhole's event horizon (not to be confused with a black holes event horizon).

Once you've digested all of this consider just three more brief points.

First, as a standard of measure the furthest space probe from earth has reached about 12 or 13 light hours distance and it took the Voyager 27 years to reach it. Compare that object's mass to those of suspected UFOs and then realize that much of voyagers propulsion was gravity.

Second, with the number of UFOs reported the number of trips by a single civilization via anything less than a wormhole would be impossible as presented by the evidence above. It seems like every year the aliens get a new model upgrade to their saucers.

Third, last, and a bit more complicated in summation is the theory of multiple histories used in quantum physics. If we look at all the possible histories that could have taken place throughout the history of the universe, then look at just the subset that resulted in us evolving on earth and compare that with the previous. Well, you get the picture how rare the evolution to intelligent life in the universe may actually be, let alone one with the time, resources, practice and technology for intergalactic travel.

:smash:

Fun topic though...

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Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus

Interesting topic FK.

Whether UFOs exist isn't in question, we know they exist, but Alien UFOs is another kettle of fish.

............. universe may actually be, let alone one with the time, resources, practice and technology for intergalactic travel.

:smash:

Fun topic though...

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Hay! I never said I had any idea where they came form. That's kind of what makes them unidentified…
The could come from Sears or Marks & Sparks I suppose though I have never seen one on the shelf.:whip:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Hay! I never said I had any idea where they came form. That's kind of what makes them unidentified…
The could come from Sears or Marks & Sparks I suppose though I have never seen one on the shelf.:whip:

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I have the Marks & Sparks model parked next to my Durango and it was given to me by the black suits with instructions to test it.

Hay, cool!

But what is this one?

A) Flaming Popcorn
B) The flatulent English Turtle

Most UFO cases involving the emission of flame are nothing more than the Coyote with his Acme rockets.

You know I was really hoping for B. That way it could be explained as a natural phenomenon. That would put it right up there with swap gas in Arizona.

Swamp Gas is on my UFO's license plate.

In seriousness though, I'd go so far as to say 40% of serious UFO sightings (those reported by professional and respectable people and not professional UFO seekers) are government projects that they don't want to talk about. However, I don't blame them for not wanting to talk about them. The stealth program was a UFO at one point. For me to require full disclosure at all times about everything is pretty selfish. Besides think of how boring the cinema would have been over the last 50 years if they ponied up to their ownership of UFO's.

That Kalingrad video sounds suspiciously like a shattered and terrified guy mistaking a zeppelin and some fighters flying around it for something else, and taking a blurry video, which no one could really analyse properly.

Illuminated Zeppelins! Are the Russians still using those things? If there was a zeppelin advertising hair spray being buzzed by Mig 29s I am sure there would be a report of it.

It must have been the turtle. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus

Swamp Gas is on my UFO's license plate.

In seriousness though, I'd go so far as to say 40% of serious UFO sightings (those reported by professional and respectable people and not professional UFO seekers) are government projects that they don't want to talk about. However, I don't blame them for not wanting to talk about them. The stealth program was a UFO at one point. For me to require full disclosure at all times about everything is pretty selfish. Besides think of how boring the cinema would have been over the last 50 years if they ponied up to their ownership of UFO's.

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I remember reading about the B2 (Stealth Bomber) and the F-117 being reported as UFOs (flying triangles) for decades.

The majority of the, supposedly geniune, photographs show a fat disc shaped craft, unsuited to space travel. The craft often has rotor blades underneath. This in itself indicates an aerospace craft of some kind. Even old sci-fi movies feature craft with the rotor blades. Experimental flying saucers, probably also experimental stealth craft (the so called "project silver bug" of the 1950s was apparently a disc shaped early, and failed, attempt at a vertical take off and landing craft).

The majority of these crat were sighted over a certain desert in a certain country mainly during a certain cold war. Very few are "seen" elsewhere in the world and there are no genuine images of anything, but a lot of faked images (both of supposed UFO's and of supposed US Air Force saucer craft).

The most probable explanation is that authorities prefer people to think of these so called "black projects" as "alien beings from another world", rather than have the projects compromised altogether.

And Hollywood, and thus the US economy, did well from the multitude of movies spawned from the UFO sightings. When you've got a good myth going that's bringing in the cash, you hold onto it and perpetuate it for as long as possible.

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Originally Posted by Cambyses II

I remember reading about the B2 (Stealth Bomber) and the F-117 being reported as UFOs (flying triangles) for decades.

The majority of the, supposedly geniune, photographs show a fat disc shaped craft, unsuited to space travel. The craft often has rotor blades underneath. This in itself indicates an aerospace craft of some kind. Even old sci-fi movies feature craft with the rotor blades. Experimental flying saucers, probably also experimental stealth craft (the so called "project silver bug" of the 1950s was apparently a disc shaped early, and failed, attempt at a vertical take off and landing craft).

The majority of these crat were sighted over a certain desert in a certain country mainly during a certain cold war. Very few are "seen" elsewhere in the world and there are no genuine images of anything, but a lot of faked images (both of supposed UFO's and of supposed US Air Force saucer craft).

The most probable explanation is that authorities prefer people to think of these so called "black projects" as "alien beings from another world", rather than have the projects compromised altogether.

And Hollywood, and thus the US economy, did well from the multitude of movies spawned from the UFO sightings. When you've got a good myth going that's bringing in the cash, you hold onto it and perpetuate it for as long as possible.

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Actually the reports are pretty much world wide. But that doesn't rule out secrete craft being built on earth.

I think they are big in China at the moment. I don't know what their government's attitude about them is though.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Actually the reports are pretty much world wide. But that doesn't rule out secrete craft being built on earth.

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The supposed sightings are worldwide, especially since people started seeing them in the US.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I think they are big in China at the moment. I don't know what their government's attitude about them is though.

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The latest Chinese saucer us known as the Wok. Once of these crash landed, and local villagers reported that a strange noodle monster emerged from the wreckage, ran into a bamboo forest and was eaten in one gulp by a hungry panda.

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Originally Posted by Cambyses II

The latest Chinese saucer us known as the Wok. Once of these crash landed, and local villagers reported that a strange noodle monster emerged from the wreckage, ran into a bamboo forest and was eaten in one gulp by a hungry panda.

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Not to mention that the local village of 150 were reeducated as forced labor in the Chenjiashan coal mine and anyone who claimed to witness the phenomenon outside the village were given a vacation package to go swimming at Harbin in return for their patriotism.

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Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus

Not to mention that the local village of 150 were reeducated as forced labor in the Chenjiashan coal mine and anyone who claimed to witness the phenomenon outside the village were given a vacation package to go swimming at Harbin in return for their patriotism.

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Another enlightened one. Yet there are so very few of us still... :no:

The mother ship and the rest of the Wok fleet are hiding behind the moon. They are waiting for such a time as they can invade, when the earth grows hotter. When the time is right the noodle monsters will appear and take this planet and make it their world. What is more, they are among us already, in human form. There is just one sign that we know of, you need to be aware of this in order to be able to recognise the enemy. It is the smell, a scarcely perceptible hint of black bean sauce. This may be an indication that a noodle monster is in your vacinity.

The existence of the Wok craft are being ridiculed by Wok agents that have infiltrated the government. They have released fake pictures showing the Wok crafts photoshopped to look like planes, weather balloons and airships. The US government are afraid that the Wok will reveal that the earth is flat and that Bin Laden was actually Tony Blair in disguise, this is why they do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Cambyses II

Another enlightened one. Yet there are so very few of us still... :no:

The mother ship and the rest of the Wok fleet are hiding behind the moon. They are waiting for such a time as they can invade, when the earth grows hotter. When the time is right the noodle monsters will appear and take this planet and make it their world. What is more, they are among us already, in human form. There is just one sign that we know of, you need to be aware of this in order to be able to recognise the enemy. It is the smell, a scarcely perceptible hint of black bean sauce. This may be an indication that a noodle monster is in your vacinity.

The existence of the Wok craft are being ridiculed by Wok agents that have infiltrated the government. They have released fake pictures showing the Wok crafts photoshopped to look like planes, weather balloons and airships. The US government are afraid that the Wok will reveal that the earth is flat and that Bin Laden was actually Tony Blair in disguise, this is why they do nothing.

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Hay! That sounds too much like a conspiracy to me! That is another thread…

Let's try to concentrate on UFOs like the flatulent English Sea Turtle seen over Russia.:yes:

If the sea turtle is english then why is it in russia? Is it a tourist or something? And why does it have such bad flatulance? I think these things require serious scientific investigation.

The other week I saw a documentary from ~2005 about UFO's, it had a famous reporter narrate it. It went through the whole history of UFO's. It made it very obvious that in the 1950's and 1960's the US government was committing mass coverups. They sent out credible airforce men to investigate a UFO and all of the crew reported back that they saw it (which isn't what the government wanted them to say). After a few examples of the US's own credible military men consistently confirming the UFO's and a scientist "yes man" who they sent to investigate and interview hundreds of people who after many years turned to the side of believing in UFO's, only then US government stopped investigating UFO's.

I don't think they are aliens. I think they are probably really advanced and secret military aircraft. Don't understand why they are covered up, and why no one credible ever pushes to finally end the cover up.

I agree that all alleged alien abductees are insane.

http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/prufosreport5.pdf

This is a listing of Police reports on UFO in the UK over the years.

I haven't read it all but you may find some of it interesting.

For all you UFO fans out there:

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France Posts Previously Secret UFO Reports On Website
March 23, 2007
By MOLLY MOORE, Washington Post PARIS -- On an August day in 1967, two children tending a herd of cows outside a village in central France reported seeing "four small black beings" fly from the ground and slip headfirst into a sphere that shot skyward in a flash of light and trail of sulfuric odors.

The alleged extraterrestrial sighting, described by the French government as "one of the most astonishing observed in France," is among 1,600 UFO case files spanning the past half century that the country's space agency opened to the public for the first time Thursday.

The voluntary decision by France's National Center for Space Studies to dump more than 100,000 pages of witness testimony, photographs, film footage and audio tapes from its secret UFO archives onto its Internet site, www.cnes.fr, for worldwide viewing is an unprecedented move among Western countries. Most of them, the United States included, consider such records classified matters of national security.

Within three hours of posting the first cases Thursday, the French space agency's Web server crashed, overwhelmed by the flood of viewers seeking the first glimpses of official government evidence on a subject long a target of both fascination and ridicule.

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There you go, 100 000 pages of classified information. Eat your heart out, enthousiasts. There are more abductions, sightings, unexplained phenomena and nervous military officials in there than you can shake a stick at. :evil: :alien:

Here's the English Cnes homepage. (the Centre National for Space Study, the French 'NASA') Alas, naturally, the formerly secret archives are in French, but I suppose all the interesting stuff will soon find its way across the internet in translation. The archive section itself is still down too, after crashes due to heavy traffic.