Anti-Americanism II

@ajax and monthy python: The romans would have needed to be quite arrogant and ignorant to claim to have invented and spread sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health. There's a reason why millions of people sacrificed their lives for their people to liberate them from the roman empire, even hundreds of years after they were conquered.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Oh yeah. People around the world ask "Who has the USA helped more than any other" and resoundingly, Qadaffi is at the tip of everyone's tongue. Give me a freaking break. :dizzy2: Why don't you actually read up on American-Libyan relations over the past 30 years before you present such rubbish alternative views of history. Here's a hint, Google "Tripoli, Reagan, airstrike".

I'm not arguing everything the USA does is right or even rightly intended. We do have our flaws, and I think it would surprise you all if we started a thread where Americans only posted what they thought America's flaws are. One thing I do note about Americans more than any other country in the world is our willingness to take an honest self assessment. Not that we're good at it all the time, but we're better than anybody else.

But honestly folks, listen to yourselves for a second. On the one hand you're saying one of the biggest problems with the USA is that it sticks its nose into other people's affairs. Damn Americans, don't they know any better? On the other, you say one of the biggest problems with Americans is that we don't do more to help out around the globe. Damn Americans, don't they know any better? I mean really, Bosnia: damned if we do, damned if we don't. When you put it in those terms, we have to dismiss your opinions from the equation, because you're not offering us a positive outcome.

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And I thought this was a thread about the reasons for anti-americanism, not why those reasons are rubbish... His reason is very logical, the US has hurt him personally, and as such he doesn't like them. Very, very simple. It doesn't matter who they have helped, not helped, nor does it matter if they're usually negative towards the person in question(Gaddafi). When you wrong someone greatly enough, anything else you do pales. It doesn't matter if the US are generally hostile towards Gaddafi, they helped him once, and thus they will remain on the :daisy: forever, or at the very least until they assist(not invade, people generally don't like that...) in his overthrow.

My own dislike of the US is very simple. I'm a socialist and the US is the exact opposite of that. It has almost everything that I hate in it. Religion, extreme capitalism, no welfare, soldiers, weak unions, the list goes on...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

And I thought this was a thread about the reasons for anti-americanism, not why those reasons are rubbish... His reason is very logical, the US has hurt him personally, and as such he doesn't like them. Very, very simple. It doesn't matter who they have helped, not helped, nor does it matter if they're usually negative towards the person in question(Gaddafi). When you wrong someone greatly enough, anything else you do pales. It doesn't matter if the US are generally hostile towards Gaddafi, they helped him once, and thus they will remain on the shitlist forever, or at the very least until they assist(not invade, people generally don't like that...) in his overthrow.

My own dislike of the US is very simple. I'm a socialist and the US is the exact opposite of that. It has almost everything that I hate in it. Religion, extreme capitalism, no welfare, soldiers, weak unions, the list goes on...

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The bolded two are simply not true. And why do you hate soldiers? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Fenring

The bolded two are simply not true. And why do you hate soldiers? :inquisitive:

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Compare with the welfare state and unions in western europe, for example Norway, and it becomes true. A strong union has a leader who can tell the prime minister to sit down and shut up. Gerd-Liv Valla, the leader of the largest union here did that. I doubt very much that a union leader in the US can dictate what Bush wants to do... And as for welfare, I refuse to call the horribly low amount you have as welfare.

As for soldiers, well, I don't hate them, as that would be silly considering I was one myself 5 months ago... But soldiers = army, army = war and war = killing people, and I hate that.

Well worldwide I would say the main reason would be Americas foriegn policies(dunno if that is accurately covered in the world police vote category?) .

Probably becuse as it is a powerful nation itspolicies have a bigger impact , and when they stink they get noticed more .
Lichtenstein might have some really rubbish foriegn policies , but who notices them .

So now that many people have picked some choices here and there in the poll, what does it tell us exactly?

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Originally Posted by Bijo

So now that many people have picked some choices here and there in the poll, what does it tell us exactly?

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That based on the poll results there is no firm concensus as to the cause, other then to say that it does exsist.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You forgot to add Europes sense of cultural superiority, you know, americans being looked down upon, figure that ~;)

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Word, and it only takes one look at a Green Day or Linkin Park clip to realize that it's trendy to hate America. Even if your pate contains little more than a Brussels sprout and your opinions are about as informed as the Pope's on the Kama Sutra...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You forgot to add Europes sense of cultural superiority, you know, americans being looked down upon, figure that ~;)

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Except for this, the reason, wich most people that I know that have anti-Americanistic feelings have, is the Bush administration really. Before that there weren't that much of those feelings. Okay you've got leftwinged semi lextremists which also hate US's capitalism, they do have some points tough, but mostly it's Iraq and stuff.

However negative feeling towards people/corporations/nations/religions/... don't have to have a base of good reasons. It just needs media attention and things like that. If there are good reasons, most wouldn't even know them. If you ask the average joe, if he "hates" the US and why, most of them can't come up with ny decent reasons and arguments and if they do 99% of the time it's something about Iraq. Than you have that select few who can formulate decent arguments and things that are negative about the US, but those are almost never Anti-American. And rightfully so. (They do tend to be anti-bush sometimes tough)

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

One thing I do note about Americans more than any other country in the world is our willingness to take an honest self assessment. Not that we're good at it all the time, but we're better than anybody else.

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Personally, I figure this is sig material. Especially given the topic and context. :yes:

I'm Anti-American because of the hypocritical visa policy that makes acces to the US almost impossible, because hamburgers cause me stomach cramps ...... and because Americans who come to Romania are either CIA operatives handling suspected Al-Quaeda terrorists or weekend warriors searching of vampyers.
And I'm Anti-American because Americans copy anything they deem as cool than export it as "American merchendise". Just look at Las Vegas and puke. How can you copy Venice or Luxor and make it a casino for country bumpkins. It's obscene. For Americans if someone copied a XP CD that counts as piracy but if you copy an important foreign landmark and call that American it's commerce as usual.
America has gained power not because the settlers ware better than people who remained in the Old World but because of the virgin resources found in the New World that allowed industry to boom faster than in the Old World. Europe had more know-how than America but rich antreprenours simply baught all that know-how with Indian gold, how conveniant. And after that they just expand overseas.
Try sepparating Marketing from Culture and people will be less biased towards Amerigo

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Originally Posted by Cronos Impera

Europe had more know-how than America but rich antreprenours simply baught all that know-how with Indian gold, how conveniant.

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:inquisitive:

Yep Ser Clegane, check the balance sheet for US mega-corporations and see how much brain-power they buy from Europe.

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Originally Posted by Cronos Impera

Yep Ser Clegane, check the balance sheet for US mega-corporations and see how much brain-power they buy from Europe.

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I have seen lots of balance sheets of US companies. Never saw an item on the balance sheet for brain-power purchased from Europe (no mentioning of Indian gold either, I'd like to add)

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A strong union has a leader who can tell the prime minister to sit down and shut up.

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This is supposed to be a good thing? I've got to say, on the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with completely unelected organised labour not being able to bully our democracy.

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here union leadership is elected by the membership. And their clout over even the state comes quite simply from being the duly authorised spokesmen for a very large (or merely influental) part of the workforce.

Plus factually they negotiate. Major strikes and similar strong-arm tactics (and the equivalents on the employer side), once all but a regular occurrence, are rather passé these days and beating out a mutually benefical compromise is the order of the day.

Doesn't mean they couldn't throw their weight around when the opportunity presents itself of course. But who doesn't ?