Rascist? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
Idiot with no fashion sense? Certainly!
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Rascist? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
Idiot with no fashion sense? Certainly!
I take it that the Norwegian AFA isn't as paranoid as its Swedish counterpart then?:juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
No idea what AFA is.... Though I'm a member of SOS Rasisme, might be the same thing... Anyway, there's hardly anyone but nazi's who would want to tattoo a flag on their body, and they are quite racist...Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
No what do you mean? I know this is funny too you but...need clearer answers plz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
I though Norway had "an" AFA (Antifascistisk Aktion, Anti-Fascist Action) as all other countries:no: If you consider everyone with a flag tattoo'd on their body a racist, that's "slightly" prejudiced.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I checked the website of SOS Rasisme and it seems to be about the same thing as the Swedish NMR (Nätverket Mot Rasism, the Network Against Racism), which in turn does about the same thing as AFA: walk around in groups of 20+ and attack everyone who appears to be a nazi (i.e. anyone who express even the slightest sign of nationalism). Occasionally they will paint someone's house in red or set something on fire (mostly buildings used as meeting halls for nationalists or right-wing Christians with homophobic values).
Really? That sounds like they've become like the monsters they claim others are.
But in their minds, I assume they think they're doing it for good reasons, which makes it okay.
CR
The words you used that I originally quoted are pretty much the precise definition of the word in that application .Quote:
No what do you mean? I know this is funny too you but...need clearer answers plz.
The commies take care of that area well enough...Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
I never said that, I said that the only ones I could think of wanting such a tatto would be extreme nationalists, and they're usually quite racist... Come on, who with the slightest bit of fashion sense would want a flag tattoo? That's just ugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
Never done anything like that... Our only action against the nazi's(they have a foothold here as an underground network), is to stand outside wherever they have a party/gathering, with banners and distribute anti-racism propaganda... And we do the same thing on concerts, etc. as well as having stands in town centres... Oh, and arrange demonstrations and marches when appropriate, like when someone is killed because of racism and the yearly Kristallnacht march. And we usually join allies when they're doing something smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
This may not be a dictionary correct definition, but i have always characterised it thus:
1) Patriot - Enthusiastically Pro your nation
2) Nationalist - Aggressively Anti other nations
By that definition I am very much a patriot.
Q - Why am i a patriot?
A - Because I am proud of what my nation has achieved, proud of the values it holds, and proud of the choices it has made. In short, i feel that broadly speaking GB is populated by the kind of people I would like and admire, I am therefore happy to consider them my 'tribe'.
This goes regardless of colour or creed. I will happily call a indian emigree who considers himself British my brother, just as I would any other decent British person.
I would have less loyalty to those who reject their British'ness, be they anti-establishment whites or radicalised second generation muslim's, because they hold no loyalty to my 'tribe'.
And yes, I would fight to defend my nation/tribe.
That which defines my fondness for GB is also relevant to other nations that hold similar values, and would make the same choices when it comes to the crunch. So, i have a great deal of time for the anglosphere nations, and those nations that have been influenced by GB such as the Commonwealth.
Generally speaking, I respect those nations that are willing to put the time and effort into defending themselves, as they to me are vibrant nations with a will to survive.
In the same vein, I respect those nations that maintain sovereign responsibility for their own actions, as they are effectively choosing to be responsible for the outcome of their decisions.
I also have something of a hard-on for constitutional monarchies, as perhaps it suggest to me a certain social stability that precludes bloody revolutionary tendencies.
If i were to list my top-ten countries in the world today with whom i instinctively trust and approve it would run something like follows:
1) GB
2) Oz
3) Canada
4) NZ
5) US
6) Norway
7) Netherlands
8) India
9) Poland
10) Singapore
...................
11) France
So there you go, i am a nationalist with a bizarre set of criteria that causes me to massively prefer some nations over others, but i'm happy with that.
Well, why anti-antinationalism?
Im pro Texan but then again who isnt
Umm, me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
:creep:
You clearly lack perspective in this. Why are you proud of your nations achievments? Why are you proud of the values it holds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Are you in support of such actions as the Falklands War where the British went to fight the completely chanceless Argentinian army (consisting to a degree by minors) to maintain control of a few islands hundreds of kilometres away? Are you in support of slavery and general racism for a few hundred years? Aren't you just being irrational in assuming what your country does is good, just because it is your country and your "tribe"? Also, are we not past stone age tribe thinking by now? Have thousands of years of evolution been in vain?
Also, what says everyone in your tribe is good? Have you met all Brits? Are you happy to consider violent left- or right wing extremists Brits? Are you happy to consider serial killers, "ordinary" mudererers, rapists and other criminals your tribe? They may have no less loyalty to their country than you, just that they beat people up or even kill them for some reason (race, sexual satisfaction etc).
I think you should consider why you are so fond of your coutnry and its "achievments" before stating you're proud of it. Of course, you might be a conservative racist Christian warmonger, that's up to you - but I really don't think you are.
Again, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
So revolution is something bad according to you then? Interestingly enough you list both the USA and France as the more "trustworthy" countries in the world...Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Also, one might wonder what people of today consider positive about monarchies - it's not like people benefit from them, rather the opposite (I know, I know: they attract tourists, yes, we have a royal house in Sweden also, but they live on their people after all - what do you owe them and what have they done for you?).
explain why i lack perspective?Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
i realise i could have written on my views of every historical event involving Britian, but this is not perhaps the place for a treatise.
1) YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
2) everyone has been involved in slavery and 'general' racism at one point or another, but i am proud that we tasked Royal Navy ships to anti-slavery duty during a war of survival and kept it going at stupendous expense for over thiry years.
3) it is you who is being irrational in assuming that I agree with arbitrary actions of GB just because i am from there.
4) Are you past the idea of loving your family? You are talking about hundreds of thousands of years of genetic conditioning towards social groupings as if it is of no consequence.
5) I do not in any way claim all members of my tribe are good, or even likeable.
I have given this plenty of thought, nearly thirty years as it happens, thanks for the thought tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
What is wrong with being conservative? I am.
What is wrong with being christian? I am not.
You automatically asscoiate "racist" with "conservative" and "christian" which i find very bigotted.
Your implication is that all war is bad, given that you associate it with other nasty things like racism, do i read this inference correctly?
I gave several reasons why i like particular nations, but to elaborate for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
France = because it maintains a serious defence potential
America = defence + anglophile
Norway = defence + independance + monarchy
India = defence + commonwealth
To name but a few, but surely you can now see that there are many criteria i consider when making a judgement of this kind?
I cannot speak for swedens monarchy, but the ammount of value i believe the british monarchy achieves for britain is huge. I know of no-one who spends such a staggering ammount of time promoting the british interest as the queen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
Therefore, i believe that they do a great deal for my 'tribe'.
Or, it could be that he associated "conservative christian" with racist... And that leap isn't that great... Or it could be that he simply lumped the first words that entered his mind together,,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Defense? In Norway? Really? Where? When? What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Nice. My Mum goes to Church and is rather conservative, but as yet has not been to any right-wing meetings. Unless you count Lady's Circle, but they mainly do charity dinners and cakes rather than firebombing Jewish businesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Edit:
Most of the racists I've had the misfortune to encounter have had no obvious religious leanings.
:coffeenews: Keep playing nicely, I'm reading the comics and I don't want to roll up the paper and come back there... its hard enough drinking coffee, reading the newspaper, bouncing the baby on the knee and driving at the same time... so don't make me go all Britany on you and spear you with the sharp and pointy rolled up newspaper. :2thumbsup:
Seriously, this thread has gone very well so far, try and tone down any potential flames please.
being a conservative christian is not something i have ever found to be particularly associated with racism. i might not agree with it in the slightest, but i have never noted the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Norway spemds nearly $5 billion/year, and maintains a very modern and well trained armed forces by all accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
it is amazing how the "right-wing" has been demonised, where to merely use the word indicates extremism even with using the word; "extreme" as a prefix to "right-wing".Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
its a funny world.
yeah, in some parts of Europe right-wing = extremist racist, in some parts of America left-wing = extremist communazi. Quite silly labelling if you ask me :dizzy2: Probably has to do with the dominating side in these respective countries are trying to do it as an attempt to demonize their oppositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
I was thinking of the mother of all rascist types; the klansman. Conservative, christian and oh yes, very, very racist...Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Again, what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
You should check the state of things again, it might have been that way in the 70's, but there's nothing left of it now... The money is spent on cruises for the top brass instead.
True, but I chose the phrase deliberately. If we are honest though it isn't as if "left-wing" doesn't have any baggage associated with it. I suppose politics today is much more inclusive and rather less ideological than in years gone by so that in truth only the extremists are left in the wings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Racism is not in any way the singular preserve of conservatives or christians. As a member of an anti-racist group you should know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
If you think the KKK qualifies as the "mother" of racist types then I can only trump you with the "grandmother": Nazism.
Socialist, atheist and racist x 20 million verys.
Well there's a start at least. Let's see we got Hitler, Mao, Stalin just to name a few small fries. Few million deaths, we all make mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
Technically it would be more of a "insane bastard child" or something, the KKK is older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
But socialist and athiest (non-christian is acceptable)? :inquisitive:
That said, I do agree with the first part of your statement.
No, I didn't. As HoreTore already suggested, I just lumped all the words I came up with that fit with the stereotype British Lord of the 19th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
Why, yes. Now please explain to me how war could be good, aren't we past that stage of barbary?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furunculu5
This is what's known as a syllogism: Klansmen claim to be conservative Christians, Klansmen are racist, therefore conservative Christians are racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Perhaps you should rethink your logic.
The "stereotype" British Lord! Isn't this thread (in its original incarnation) supposed to be a diatribe against 'illogical' and emotionally derived mental constructs that pre-condition the mind into a rigid and inflexible opinions on society and culture? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocentius
I would say that British armed intervention in Sierra Leone was a jolly good idea to give just one example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Uhm... You two misunderstood completely. It's generally not a very good idea to put words in other peoples mouth, you know...Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
The logic Don speaks of isn't mine. My logic is quite different; Klansmen are conservative christians, Klansmen are racist, therefore klansmen are conservative christian racists. Quite simple.
The KKK is the mother of all racism, and nazism is the other mother, in a glorious lesbian partnership.
Edit: Never mind, that was ruder than I intended....
HoreTore, you made a statement about conservative Christians, racism and Klansmen all in the same breath. If it was not your intent to link the 3, my mistake.