Imperial Diet VI

Dietrich von Dassel:

Well Jan, it appears that you weren't faithful enough. The Kaiser has gone and given your territory right to the Byzantines in yet another "generous gift" to Emperor Isaac. If it keeps up at this rate then we'll be re-unified all right - wearing purple.

Of course, I eagerly await to hear your legal wranglings for how this is unacceptable. Perhaps you can even tell the Kaiser in person when he visits here. However, you will have to get in line.

Incidentally, this makes Elector Bresch the same rank as me, since he will no longer have a County to govern.

Ansehelm:
Meine Herren, from the letter send by our treacherous Kaiser I've learned that it is in the deals that the Outremer is going to be gifted to Byzantium. We cannot approve of this.

I personally do not approve of the Outremer, and prefer to see it abandoned, as it costs us more than it gives us. However we fought for it, good Germans, good Franconians as well died for it. We should not give this all away to people who never did anything for us. They are in no position to make demands, we are the conquerors of the world. We have the strongest army. Would I want to I can take on all of Byzantium with only the Teutonic Army, and win.
We, meine freunde, are the strongest nation in the world, if anyone can make demands it is us, not some fake gay coloured Orthodox nation.

I say we stay in the Outremer, and if the Byzantines think they can take it, we simply fight back. We show them how real men fight.

AND WE BEAT THEM!!!


However, since Outremer is not ours anymore I hereby name Dieter Bresch as Furst of Saxonia (OOC: unofficial rank) and Count of Magdeburg, and I name Jan von Hamburg as Count of Hamburg. Untill they arrive Fritz will command the Saxonian Army.

Matthias jumps upright at the news of Outremer, sending his desk tumbling forward.

What?! We are to hand over all of Outremer to the Byzantines? This is. . .is beyond words! Unified or not, they haven't had a presence in the Levant since the 8th Century. A longer time even than southern Italy. What shall we give them next, Rome itself? If I'm not mistaken, the old dividing line between East and West was along the Adriatic and east of Italy, if so, why exactly have we given them Palermo and Naples along with Outremer?

Is the Kaiser methodically going down a list seeing if he can alienate everyone in the Reich?

I'm in shock, I have tried to walk the line between opposition to Unification and rebellion, as both would harm the Reich. But is there a line left? I don't know.

Matthias strides to the door of the Diet and turns to face the empty throne of the Kaiser.

I'm going to Outremer. As God as my witness, the Greeks can have Adana once they pry it from my cold, dead hands! What has been consecrated in German blood shall not be surrendered with the stroke of a pen!

Matthias exits, slamming the door behind him.

There is rustling in the bushes outside the windows. Lars peers in, sitting on Ulrich's shoulders.

OOC: Eavesdropping, Samwise Gamgee?

Lorenz once again appears in the room, this time even more angered.

What type of fool, would give all of Outmer, to the Byzantium! AN IMBICEL, THATS WHAT HE IS!!!.

I was not present at the time, but I'm sure thousands and thousands of germans have throw their lives away, for this holy land!. This is complete blashmephy. All those lives for nothing!?!? This is more then maddening. How can we gift so much land to those byzantium.

ARGH!!!

Lorenz grips his sword, rips it out and slashes it clean through the table

*Duke Lothar hastily scribbles a note and passes it to a Bavarian servant. Both of them then walk briskly out of the Diet, in opposite directions.*

Elberhard: Electors, there is much to digest in the Kaiser's report on his negotiations. I have been assured that no action will be taken with regard to gifting Outremer until the Kaiser has returned to address the Diet. He has set off from Constantinople and is making here as fast as possible, although having to evade the traitor Peter's patrols will slow his progress.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: In game terms, I will use a cheat to get the Kaiser to arrive in the Rome in the next turn, 1308. In real life, hopefully, Ituralde will log in on Monday at around 10pm (UK time).

Since the Kaiser will take no action until he speaks to us, likewise, I ask that no precipitate action be taken by those opposed to his decision.

On the matter of Outremer, I confess I am as shocked as any other Elector at this turn of events. However, I am neither Kaiser nor Chancellor. I can say this, however. Outremer was never about land for the Reich. It was about protecting Jerusalem. With religious re-unification, our Eastern Roman brothers have as much interest in that duty as we do. If they can undertake it without our assistance, I cannot complain. I - and I believe many other crusaders - will seek to remain in the Holy Land to assist in this noble cause for as long as we are able. But that is an issue that can only be resolved when Kaiser Siegfried stands before us.

Dietrich von Dassel:

Yes, I'm sure the Byzantines have a vested interest in protecting the figure who's been the enemy of their religion up until two years ago.

It may not matter for us, but it's clearly only a land grab for them.

King Jan walks into the Diet. He is carrying what looks to be the Charter of Outremer.

If I may have the floor for a moment,

I have read that the Kaiser intends to turn over all of Outremer in order to secure unification with the Byzantines. I do believe that unification of HRE and ERE would be good for us and the world. And I do believe that the re-unification of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches was good for the world regardless of what some may think about it. Therefore I fully support this move by the Kaiser if this is what he believes is the best way to achieve these ends.

Prince Elberhard is right. Outremer was never about land. It was about serving God. It was about spreading the Word. It was about defeating enemies there so we would not have to fight them here. It was about protecting the Holy places. While we may not have the land, we do still have these tasks.

Jan holds up the Charter of Outremer

I am amazed at how quickly some of you were willing to pretend this did not exist today. But it is still here. And it is still active law. All Crusader Counts still have their Crusader Counties until the handover takes place. I am still King of Outremer, which means I will have to reject Duke Ansehelm's appointment of me as Count of Hamburg. The two AoO's are fully combat ready.

And we still have a stated mission:

Quote:

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3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom.

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When the changeover takes place, I will give orders for the two AoO's to take up defensive positions around Jerusalem. There, those of us who wish to stay, will defend Jerusalem as long as we can. With the help of God, and your prayers, we will be victorious against those which wish to do Jerusalem harm.

Thank you and I will now yield the floor.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*edit*
OOC: I realized that it is not possible to "reject" a count assignment. So, Jan is Count of Hamburg until Ansehelm takes it away. He just can't set the build queue or get the influence from it while King

Once the Kingdom is given away both armies will be disbanded, as there will be no Kingdom anymore. And by rejecting the position of count you will find yourself countyless and armyless in future Jan.

Next to that, there is no proper God, would he be there he would have made sure your lovely church in Damascus would still be there.

Meine Herren, this is a time of war and bad things. We cannot pointlessy pray to God and hope he solves things. We must head out to war. There's one man who's on a good mission now, and I bloody well hope he succeeds. He might save the Reich, he took action, he did not sit here, and talk, he stood up to fight. None of you come even close to his deeds, no matter what you might have done. What is the title of King of the Outremer? It's nothing and it gives you nothing, all you are is a pawn to play with, a pawn of your feudal master.
The title Prinz, what good is it to you? Nothing, you will get nothing. I am sure of my land, I have it. But a Prinz will get nothing anymore, totally nothing. He will be passed in rank by a Byzantine. Do you realise that Elberhard? You get nothing, by the letter of he who some still call Kaiser you have just fallen in rank from the Second in Command to nothing more than a little Count. You have nothing, absolutely nothing.

I apologize Duke Ansehelm for I was wrong in one thing. I can not reject a county. I therefor thank you for giving me my family's lands. Unfortunately, I can not legally govern the settlement while I have this current appointment.

Thank you again for appointing me Count of Hamburg Duke Ansehelm.

Jan bows to the Duke.

Lorenz stands up.

So many agree, but why can you people not understand. We can't fall under the power of the byzantium. We must fight, even if it will cost us lives! We must follow Peter's actions, and save the Reich!!!

Elberhard: Duke Ansehelm, I care nothing for my title or what it gives me just as you care nothing for Outremer.

The difference between us is that you are willing to sanction war with our greatest ally for something you care nothing for while I will remain loyal to my Kaiser.

So if the Kaiser told you to jump from a bridge, or to go lock yourself in a burning church, as there seems to be many now, you would do it? Because you were loyal to him?

Ansehelm:
I'm loyal to the Reich Elberhard, something which you aren't. A man that wants to give it away, because he thinks some inferior Greeks should be our equals.
Unfortunatly Herr Karolinger is right, you'd even jump of the bridge if ordered by your superior.

Just know that he isn't my feudal lord, so I have nothing to give to him.

I find it interesting that some in here do not seem to see the Kaiser/Duke relationship as "feudal". The Kaiser dispenses land to the Duchies in return for loyalty of the Duke and his vassals. Is that not feudalism?

Surely it would be, if Bavaria had received anything of worth from Kaiser Siegfried. Tell me, exactly what duty do I owe to a man whose only aid to my Duchy has been the 'donation' of a land that we do not even own? Feudalism requires a relationship that goes both ways. The Lord protects and aids the vassal in return for servitude. As far as Bavaria is concerned, Siegfried has not upheld any of his feudal responsibilities to us.

Elberhard puts down a letter and rises to his feet, his face dark and sombre.

Elberhard: Duke Lothar, do not speak to us of duty and obligation. This Diet has forgotten the meaning of those words - along with others, such as honour and loyalty.

The Prinz lowers his head and rubs his hair in anguish, before looking up and continuing.

Noble electors, it is my sad duty to inform you that Count Friedrich Scherer, former Duke of Swabia, has fallen in battle against the French. I grieve with my brother Swabians, and I am sure, the whole Reich, in the loss of so distinguished a general.

I ask you all to stand, united with me, in his honour and salute his name:

TO FRIEDRICH!!!!

Dietrich von Dassel:

There are no words. I wish I was there to help.

TO FRIEDRICH!!!

Jan stands to honor the fallen man. He makes a sign of the cross on his chest.

May the Lord see him swiftly and gently on his way to Heaven.

TO FRIEDRICH!!!

I believe Siegfried did gift quite a bit of land to Bavaria upon his ascension, as did he to most other houses.

As for the matter of Outremer, I will wait to hear him speak in person, before I will think about accepting to give away the ground on which my father and many other men of the empire have died on.

[edit]
May good Friedrich rest in peace for his valor in battle against our French foes. They have claimed two of our esteemed nobles now and I pray there shall be no more.
As soon as the traitor Peter is brought to justice, I will see to eliminating the French threat personally once and for all.

Dietrich von Dassel:

Kaiser Siegfried, this blood is on YOUR hands. If you weren't so intent on getting dangerous ol' me out of the way and dumping me in Ragusa, I might have been there to help! If you hadn't sent Hans on some wild goose chase to catch up with Peter when you know it'll never happen, he might have been there to help!

Because of your policy the finest soldier in the Reich and the greatest Duke of Swabia has perished needlessly. You talk of cooperation with the Byzantines. Why not let them stop Peter while we can concentrate on our own enemies?!

That's two Swabians you've offed now, Siegfried, counting poor Kaiser Jobst. I shudder to think who your next victim will be.

There's nothing else to say about this tragedy: TO FRIEDRICH!
However, there are things to be said of this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elberhard

Duke Lothar, do not speak to us of duty and obligation. This Diet has forgotten the meaning of those words - along with others, such as honour and loyalty.

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Duty and obligation. Honour and loyalty. These do not seem to have the same meaning to you Elberhard, as they do to me, and probably to others as well.
I have a duty to the Reich. I have an obligation to defend it and its interest. I have my honour, and I believe I have kept it intact. My loyalties lie first in the Reich, then in Bavaria. The Kaiser does not figure in these equations.
It is like the Church, if you will. I am faithful to Our Lord. But the Pope has nothing to do with it!

Sir Dassel,

No, you claim that Count Scherer's blood is on the Kaiser's hands. Claiming so doesn't automatically make it so. As usual, your inventing causality where there is none.

Count Scherer died on a Saturday. Does that mean Saturday is also responsible for his death?

Diet legislation allowed Swabia to go into France in the first place. Is the Diet responsible for his death?

No I am afraid you are yet again inventing things in order to support your political agendas.

You claim the blood is on the Kaiser's hands because it is convenient for you to do so. Maybe if you thought more about what you said in the Diet, you wouldn't have honked off so many people, and you would have been in Swabia to help Count Scherer during the battle. So, does that mean it is actually you who is responsible for his death?

I prefer to think it is the French that are responsible but if you insist on inventing culpability for political reasons, you should be aware that it could be done to you as well.

Not by me of course but not everyone here has shown you the courtesy of healthy debate like I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Duty and obligation. Honour and loyalty. These do not seem to have the same meaning to you Elberhard, as they do to me, and probably to others as well.
I have a duty to the Reich. I have an obligation to defend it and its interest. I have my honour, and I believe I have kept it intact. My loyalties lie first in the Reich, then in Bavaria. The Kaiser does not figure in these equations.
It is like the Church, if you will. I am faithful to Our Lord. But the Pope has nothing to do with it!

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No Freidrich you are wrong. The Kasier is the Reich, he is the Emperor and was appointed by God, he has the divine right to rule us and control the Reich. He is a part of this Empire so you must be loyal to him as well, he represents the interest of the Reich, he conveys what the Reich needs through his speech. A lot of us are very unhappy with his decisions of late, as am I, but i still respect his right to rule as he sees fit.

Ansehelm:
Wrong my dear Dieter, this Kaiser was not appointed by god, we did appoint him.

As to why he isn't my feudal lord: he has nothing to say about my title. I am Duke of Franconia, whether he likes it or not.

Duke Ansehelm,

The Kaiser was indeed appointed by God. We only voted on whether to accept it or not.

And the Kaiser is your feudal lord as he is the one that dispenses land.

Even if you do not agree with him, it would be difficult for you to ignore the power relationship.

Dietrich von Dassel:

The Kaiser was appointed by the Diet based solely on the fact that they wanted to get the dispute resolved as quickly as possible and ignored heaps of evidence in the meantime.

Dietrich von Dassel:

I've just experienced an epiphany, fellow Electors. God spoke to me and said that actually, *I* am to be the Kaiser for the Reich.

The reasoning for this is iron-clad. I am the eldest son of Harold von Dassel, who was the eldest son of Sigismund der Stolze, who was the eldest son of Kaiser Henry, who was the eldest son of Kaiser Heinrich. That certainly qualifies me. Plus, as already stated, God said I was Kaiser.

I demand that the Diet immediately take a vote to officialize my position. Anyone who disagrees with me will be struck by lightning within twenty-four hours. After all, God is on my side.

Lorenz snickers

God does not select one, and God did not select you. God can only provide us with the paint, the brush, and the paper, but is is completly under the control of our hands to paint what we see fit. And right now, I think we have painted a horrible painting, but that doesn't mean we can't fix it.

FOLLOW THE PATH OF PETER AND THAT CNA BE OUR CORRECTION.