So... Has anybody succeeded as Hayasdan yet?

alright......my interest is peaked......i'll play hayasdan on vh and see what all this interesting challenge is about

look forward to it

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Originally Posted by Maksimus

See here :: I personaly used similar tactic against Sarmatians too.. That means HA and heavy Cavalry - But I play on a Very Hard battle see my thread bellow so you can belive me

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...t=93151&page=5

The poin is, that when you battle large Horse armies That are likely to have many HA and most of the Stepe Noble Units - You mus be fast and smart to win!
Let me give an example of you (player) having Generals and HA, and lets say the AI has some Generals and HA (in my case it was generals and those 'good' HA nobles)

1. If you are defening... you have two options!
First is to put ALL of your army as near to enemy as possible (disable S mode for HA and make them defend) - Then you seek a FLANK of the enemy army to launch a FULL attack!
With all your army riding in the dirrection of the enemy - so when you come near the first enemy unit - other enemy units wont hit you with arrows much..

That means to click the whole army, that is now tight together to run behid the enemy from the flank. But if you are in some distance from the HA enemy you should just spread your army until you came close to launch an attack.
In that way your HA will allways catch the enemy just in time for the generals to deliver the finall blow!(just before that you should go slightly back with your HA leaving the generals to do their part):juggle2:

Then you use full charge of all your generals (just have to look that they are spread and one by the other or even one within the other generel - so you can make better charge bonus against the enemy!)..

By this method you are making enemy flee - but be sure to kill their general first and that the army does not come back to fight! If there are some woods - use them to be there all the time and to gain a full charge while in the safe!
Second way to win when you are defending is to go as far away from the enemy at the battle deployment - so you waith him to come to you! Then use his (most likely) spread army and flank him now from two sides if possible..(this is very likely to win if you have some foot to, but basicly., foot complies with all these tactics)
For runing down those fast archers yous your HA and generals that follow.. but be sure not to chase one unit at a time.. make your attack in full.. at once... sometimes your horse archers can kill couple of units that attack you one after the other ..

2. If you are Attacking .. use the First tactic when defending!

And this is the way I win my Very Hard battles with huge unit settings...
Try it.. you can't loose much!:yes:

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Excellent suggestion. A sort of "into the valley of death" approach. I like it. Just seek and destroy and ignore the archers. That does simplify things. I'm not overly convinced on the second way. Double envelopments work extremely well with a balanced army, but with a purely cavalry army I reckon' hit 'em quick and hit 'em hard is the best approach.

The Seleukids in my game have woken up the fact that the phalanx is completely useless against me. It started using lots of heavy archers and heavy cavalry, which has basically forced me to use a similiar tactic that you're using. Depending on the setup, I generally mass my heavy cavalry, charge the archers, burst through their lines and then find the general to kill. After that I run away to a big hill and let my horse archers finish off the archers and exhaust the infantry. It worked quite well as I've now taken all of modern day Iraq and Iran and now there is a rush to beat the Baktrians(ally) to what is left. Next stop Eygpt(the Ptoles have been giving me the shits - ever other turn they are asking me to become a protectate).

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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General War,

I've added your post to my favourites and copied your tactics in a text file. :bow:
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I'm honoured!!!

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Originally Posted by General War

This tactic works fantastically against foot armies(Selekid and Ptol - who are allied against me), but does anyone have a tactic for taking on cavalry armies? I'm going to have to take on the Parthians very soon, and I'm more than a little bit worried.

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Pike Mercs for holding 'em + medium/cheap AP infantry for killing the generals (axe-men, Sipri Tukul). Also: slingers & flaming arrows. AP cavalry is another wise descision.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Pike Mercs for holding 'em + medium/cheap AP infantry for killing the generals (axe-men, Sipri Tukul). Also: slingers & flaming arrows. AP cavalry is another wise descision.

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I've been having a bit of a think about this and I'm basing it purely on the way I use my cavalry armies. I'm finding the most difficult units to tackle are heavy skirmishers, heavy archers, and spearmen with missiles. The problem with pike is that you have pin down a unit before you can get the pike into action, and even then it moves so slowly that the battle might be over by the time you get there. Axe-men can be slightly annoying if they have missile weapons, but they are generally susceptible to missile fire themselves. As far as slingers and archers are concerned, they are the first target for my horse archers. If there is a lot of them, then my HAs just form cant circle. So, I was thinking hvy skirm, hvy arch & hvy spear with some cav support.

Of course the problem with my option is that my stack is going to cost about 3 times that of the Parthian stack. Not very cost effective. I wonder how well scorpions do against horse archers. ; )

I think I'll probably end up with about half the stack being horse archers, a quarter heavy skirmishers and the rest heavy cavalry. It should give me enough flexiblity to pick my spot and hit it hard. I'll give it a go if the Parthians end up fighting their way past the Baktrians. If not, I guess I could always run a sim, but that seems like cheating. It's always more fun to find out if a tactic works or not during "the real thing".

I'm sure your way works, and I may end up using it, but what I'm looking for at the moment is a way is a to quickly convert my current cavalry army into an effective anti-cavalry army.

HAI
vh-m
269BC
about 8 grand in debt
down to -68 income per turn
everyone around me are allies
1 garrison of eastern skirmishers in each city with highest tax possible
all available(including generals) units grouped together conquering a path west along the coast

i scout west with my spy while i secure trade rights and map info from other factions in the east

so far no problems besides running out of troops.....hope i don't lose a city i need income

anyway the interesting point at hand!!

it seems a Pontic city rebeled and now is Arveni
this shall prove very interesting now so early in the game!!
coolness

The Arveni REBEL IN THE EAST

https://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a...rnofEvents.jpg

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When the Galati rebel they become either Aedui or Arverni. ~:)
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Arverni, always. Never Aedui. When Tylis rebels it turns Aedui. When Ankyra rebels it turns Arverni.

I almost made it as Hayasdan, being able to field a fullstack with 6 generals, lots of spearmen and pantodapoi phalangitai (the native MIC in Armavir can build PPh, who are INVALUABLE in holding back Seleukid phalanxes, even if at a mild disadvantage). I captured Kotais, then Mtskheta, then advanced to take Trapezous and Ani-Kamah on my return trip back to Armavir. I signed an alliance with Pontos and Sauromatae (i forced diplomacy, to be honest.) and built all the mines I could. I didn't take Kabalaka or Phraaspa because they are more trouble than they are worth, and they are worth more as buffers, especially Phraaspa with its Persian Hoplites, which will keep the Greys off you in the east. With this little core empire I was able to support a fullstack while putting the pan-Caucasian reforms into action.

The silly Seleukids who decided to attack me some 10 plus years later ran their smallstacks and halfstacks straight into the teeth of my fullstack phalanx-and-cataphract war machine. Then I counterattacked and had just besieged Karkathiokerta when the Seleukids begged for peace. I gave it to them at the cost of Karkathiokerta and Edessa. One stunning thing about this Hayasdan campaign was that the Seleukids were VERY afraid, and kept asking for peace. They also had nothing more than a halfstack, and nearly everything less. The ONLY fullstack they had left was in Susa, and that was just sitting tight.

After pausing to take stock and rebuild a bit, I moved on and decided to attack Antiocheia, logic being it was a Mediterranean port, and it was a huge city which I figured would give income. Big mistake.

I attacked it, but had just besieged for a turn when the Seleukids came round again begging for peace. This time I demanded Antiocheia and Damaskos so I would have one Seleukid front removed from my war. Then I moved for Mazaka to defeat a halfstack there some turns later, and as fate would have it, they ceasefired once more. This time I demanded Arbela, and was satisfied with the borders and income of my empire.

THen the full results of my folly came crashing down on me. The Ptolemaioi attacked, and while the Greys had no fullstacks, the Yellows had them. I beat them every time, but I was bogged down in Syria, unwilling to give up Antiocheia, and stuck far from my supply lines and troop sources. My economy was not secure and stable enough yet to support two fullstacks. I had no spare cataphract generals, those left behind were busy governing and there were only two of them anyway. Then meanwhile Susa and Ekbatana suddenly started REALLY ramping up troop production, producing a fullstack EACH in two years. That was when I gave up. Sigh.

They aren't impossible, but make the wrong move and you're pretty much owned.

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Originally Posted by innocex

while we are talking about hayasdan, has anyone else noticed that when you make a custom battle, some of the hai units are missing? for example, i cant find armenian generals, light horse archers, caucasian archers?

am i making some mistake?

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im guessing its to do with the EDU files. same isssue that affects Roman roster. EDUs switching should get you your Armenian units back.

I ask for map info in exchange for my map info as a deal with silver death my ally.....he gets annoyed and annuls our alliance.....
the cookie starts to crumble...
5 years later...all hell breaks loose politically and small skirmishing takes place
Pontos decides to send a full stack up the middle and take my coastal town and split my empire in half....breaking the alliance......Silver Death already has 2 units in the east just sitting in my lands taunting me.... Meanwhile after surviving thus far another full rebel stack attacks my main army..I win costly.....later while another army of AS decides to besiege pergamon (as rejects ceasefire)i charge with whats left of my army my 5 generals and take ipsos...but have no unit to leave behind to garrison

but i have 15k to spend......now i have to decide what im going to do
what i do now will impact my empire greatly
i'll never give up even if i have to take back all my lost cities and exterminate all the people in them.....I SHALL NOT GIVE UP!!

ankyra has been lost to pontos again.....shall i free the people of arverni?

https://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a.../EpicTurn2.jpg

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

Arverni, always. Never Aedui. When Tylis rebels it turns Aedui. When Ankyra rebels it turns Arverni.

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Never say never. ~;) In my campaign they have rebelled for the Audui exclusively, without exception. I said Audui or Arverni based on others' reports.
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If it is captured and lost before the palace structure is ever upgraded it will rebel to the Aedui. If it has time to upgrade the palace structure, then is taken and rebels, it will rebel to the Arverni. (Or it may be the other way around.)

Who built the palace building is what determines who it will rebel to. So if you capture a town and upgrade it, it will rebel to you if captured by someone else then rebels. At the start of the game, every town has to have a corresponding founding faction, and that is who the town will count as the builder, and whom to rebel to, for the town. The game can have a different owner for the time after they upgrade too (some obvious ones like this are Arse which starts out Lusotanna and then upgrades to KH).

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Thanks. :bow:
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