Battle accounts and discussion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vantek

While we're at it, could someone give me some pointers on...how to attack an enemy on mountains, hills

---

My S.O.P. when forced to attack an enemy firmly established on elevations: study the terrain thoroughly. Usually there's a shallower flank on one side - try to approach (out of missile range) perpendicular to the enemy's line from that flank. My army in these situations is kept in a much more compact formation, usually with infantry/cavalry following closely behind missile troops in a narrow (but deep) front. I don't want troops strung out down in the valley - everyone should be as high on the ridge as they can.

Usually the A.I. is forced to redeploy to face my troops - which results in many of their troops no longer having an elevation advantage. As I approach, missile troops will engage - but mine will outnumber the A.I.'s at first, as it takes time to bring the ones on the opposite flank over to where the action is. I try to have my elite troops, or at least troops of the best type for the ones they'll face, at the highest point of my formation. They'll take the brunt of the fighting at the initial point of melee, and may be at a little disadvantage in elevation - hopefully their quality/type matchup will prevail. As the A.I. tries to bring troops around the flank of the fighting on the high ground, troops in the rear of my formation (now higher than these enemy units) can rush to engage at an advantage.

If the A.I. doesn't redeploy, you can focus more of your fighting units on a narrow front against fewer/weaker enemy units, feeding new troops only when or where they've an advantage. Don't accept a general engagement where you're fighting everyone uphill - that seldom works.

This "perpendicular approach" has worked for me in hundreds of uphill battles against Expert A.I. It's only when they're entrenched in very mountainous terrain, with both flanks secured by impassable areas (a rare situation), that I have to use bait to tempt them out of position. :beam:

Thanks for the help! I'm not sure I understand though :P Could you draw me a map? =P

Another query to you old hands. How often are you still sometimes completely surprised by the outcome of a certain matchup or situation? Like today, there was an enemy AT MOST Valour 2 Sergeant Militia consistently "Winning Easily" against two 40-men (out of 60, were coming from different provinces) units of Chivalric Men-At-Arms (2 star General), UP a slight slope and then after an unit of Urban Militia attacked them as well (those were at least ripped apart quickly!) actually cause one of them to rout at 20 men. Well it was Expert and I think my General might have been a good runner but still, how the hell does a unit of Sergeant Militia, out of all units, "Win Easily" against 1,5 times as many Chivalric Men-At-Arms, UP a slight slope?? Are they supposed to do that?? Or is it indeed as weird as it seemed to me? Do such unexpected things happen to you?

At least I won the battle :P It was quite a fun one. I actually didn't position my men near the map edge, but in front of a nearly vertical slope, as if IT was the edge of the map =) If only the engine allowed the enemy to push me down... =P

I particularly enjoyed shooting a full units of Katatanks including the General himself down to 4 routing men (NOT including the General anymore ^_^) in four volleys.

Yeah - the game holds many little nasty surprises to even an old hand (both in MTW terms and in RL (30 summers)) like myself. Just last week, I'd striven to build the pronai whatever (byz knights), and proudly brought them to the battlefield. Unfortunately while charging head to head against a unit of steppe cavalry, they lost miserably, routing with 5 pronais left and the steppe (not heavy) cavalry with 3/4 of their unit. I was just like: Oh **** they cost me 450 florins and a massive upkeep! And this was what I got!!! :wall:

Part of the charm :2thumbsup:

/KotR

Yeah, Militia Sargeants vs CMAA is a funny one, and there a number of factors which can tip the balance either way... The Militia Sargeants' armour piercing hurts bad and, 1 on 1, your normally-solid CMAAs will almost never achieve a "massacre" against these guys with all things being equal.

If the Militia Sargeants:

- wrap you
- have 1 or 2 more valour
- have no other foes

...then it's quite conceivable that they could beat your lads via attrition.

But "winning easily" up a slope? Hmm, I can only consider that the valour differential might have been more than you thought, or that you accidentally changed the CMAAs formation settings to something less advantageous, or that your slope maybe had a kink or a plateau in it (or all of the above).

and two other things - they might have been charging +

Luck

Yeah, sometimes, they just get lucky.

/KotR

Militia Sergeants with a valor upgrade can be pretty formidable in melee combat. Yours probably had one of the line of Pride traits, which can boost valor considerably - more than the 2-point lead needed for a MS to equal uphill CMAA.

When playing as a Catholic faction in Early, I've often "farmed" MS for valor, combining experienced remnants together to make an uber-unit. The best ones are so good I'll keep them in the unit roster, even after the change to High period (when better unit types become available). And since they're non-Elite, they valor-up faster than many of the "better" units. MS are a very versatile unit, one of which I'm quite fond.

Cheers! :beam:

I had the AI suprise me last night,when i moved half the garrison of the Crimea,as the Spanish were massing next to EGypt,and I needed to discourage them from trying anything. They invaded with 950 men,mostly rus spearmen,Balkan warriors,spearmen,armoured spearmen a few units of Druzhina Calvary and many crossbowmen,archers and horse archers,against my garrison of 2 units of the Vangarian Guard,a Kara unit,1 units of Kontarioi,and a unit of lancers,that also happened to be my 3 star general.

Luckly it was a bridge battle,so I waited patiently until 2 units of Baltics and a unit of Rus Spearmen had crosed the bridge,then I struck with my spearmen from the front,while sending my Guard units around to flank them,and them routed after some hard fighting.

But them my Guard units got tied up with the Armoured spearmen/Duzinha calvary on the bridge,and they were getting decimated by arrows/bolts,so I sent my Kara unit over the other bridge,and struck them from behind,which routed what was left of them,by this time I was down to 35 guard in one units and 20 in the other,and they had reinforcements comming in,which caught my heavy calv retreating and destroyed them to the last man.
Then they tried to bring some Druzhina calv over the bridge,so I again waited until the units had partially crossed the bridge,then i met with with my lancer group head-on while sending my depleted guard units around on the flanks,which after some hard fighting again,they routed and the entire stack routed along with them,ending the battle,which I was glad of,as I only had 7 and 14 Vangarian guard left,35 Kontarioi and 37 lancers.

Nice, oz_wwjd; sounds like a very tense battle (but in a good way). :thumbsup:

Was this Novgorod that attacked you, btw? Kiev?

The Novgorods,which shocked me,as they'd been passive ever since I destroyed the cumans for them,but that's AI Gratitude for you. I dont mind admiting that when they intially invaded I though something along the lines of "o crap" but I thought that if I couldn't beat them at least I'd give them a bloody nose,it turned out better than I expected..

In a semi-recent High campaign as the Aragonese I had a nice hill battle against the Spanish.

They controlled a large hill or a mountain in one of the corners with a good quality army, it seemed to be very difficult to charge easily. Both generals with 4 stars.

I decided to split my troops into three groups to counter their superior position. The first group, consisting of 3 halberdiers, 1 Chivalric Sergeants, 2 Arbalests and a heavy infantry unit (CMAA or Chivalric Foot Knights, can't remember), was to approach the enemy from one of the sides of the hill.

The second group, consisting of 3 light cavalry units, screened the first party and tried to lure Arbalests from the hill so they could be charged and shot by the Arbalests in group 3.

The third group, made of 2 Arbalests, 2 halberdiers, CMAA and a light cavalry unit (Jinettes), took the long way around the hill, and was seated in a small forest waiting for their turn to charge the hill.

The plan was to make the enemy attack my main group, while the second group attacks from a flank, having marched quite a long way to get to an innocent-looking spot pretty far away from the enemy lines. Both armies were elite, so they could hold their lines long enough for the flanking force to attack.

Group 2 (light cavalry) managed to do its job to some extent, and a lot of enemy Arbalesters and almost all enemy cavalry were killed by Group 3. One of my three cavalry units got annihilated, though, as they got stuck between some enemy Arbalesters and some royal or another, a princeling maybe.

After this, my main group (Group 1) started climbing up the hill, while light cavalry continued to harass enemy missiles. They were heavily outnumbered and had to face enemies uphill, but their task was to hold the line long enough for Group 3 to join the battle from the flank.

Even though Groups 1 and 2 were heavily outnumbered, they were faring pretty well. The nifty Jinnettes managed to break some of the engaged units, but the enemy general was putting some pressure on my line, and it was starting to buckle. Good thing I had sent Group 3 to the back of the enemy: I didn't even engage with all the forces, and the enemy routed.

Their stream of reinforcements happened to be exactly where I had earlier put my Group 3, so as they were still fresh, I could pretty quickly withdraw Group 3 to its initial position and slaughter the conciderably weaker reinforcements while Group 1 mopped up the remainder of the Spanish main army.

EDIT: One thing always manages to surprise me: having to face a valour 7+ Saracen Infantry unit with limited Early Catholic troops, especially when you notice all too late, and having flanked it with all sorts of things your guys start running for mama...

I have split off the Javelin related discussion to a new thread. :bow: