All grouping your hopilites closer together does is make them easier for archers to kill.
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All grouping your hopilites closer together does is make them easier for archers to kill.
Of course not. If anything they're better defended in my experiance but hey...thats one opinion!:yes:
thats good. i couldnt have thought of that one!:2thumbsup:
yeah the armoured box is a bit unfair isnt it, i have read about that as a tactic but sod that,[/QUOTE]
Hey thats a mint tactic. i once had a 300 experiance near Athens and my 4 spartan Hoplites manages to defend my general (whilst in box formation) from 200 Gladiator and town wath militia.
Yeah,that does seem just a teeny bit unusual. Personally,I'd prefer to send a load of Orlando Bloom lookalikes at the same war elephants,but that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by carbz
I prefer to just form up a line and march a forest of spears at my opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by carbz
It doesn't.... you know it. I distinctly remember you remarking (sarcastically I presume) that making a phalangite box in MP would make the player real popular. With the implication that the phalangite box is unbeatable/extremely unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound of Ulster
Do the Cilician pirates look like Johnny Depp? Haha, I haven't noticed that, I have to look out for that next time. Imagine, a bunch of Jack Sparrows screaming "BUT WHY IS THE RUM GONE?!?" at the party-pooper Romans who burned all their wine. :laugh4:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirinus
hahahaha thats the spirit!
tbh they look nothing like johnny depp, i just cant get past the fact they are pirates, armed with harpoons no less!
as for the box being a mint tactic, i dont doubt it. Just seems a tiny bit boring to me. Im not gonna get all neeky and say "its not historically accurate," i just thinik if i used it and it was awesome, it would kinda ruin the game for me tactically cos i would always have to use it. Its a bit like reading the thread about siege towers and ballistas, i now never bother to upgrade stone walls, and indeed never bother to defend said walls, just form a phalanx at the choke points of the main square.
sure its my choice, free will and all that, but the walls thing is a no brainer, theers more choice in field battles.
i think phalanx units are quite well protected against arrows arent they? certainly if they arent moving, i thought the pikes overhead afforded some protection from inbound arrows.. Myabe im just making that up though.
The box formation does have it's vulnerabilities. Although placing archers in the centre negates this slightly, the AI do try their very best to hit the units with the backs facing towards them. Ballistic units and other siege weapons are especially problematic when this happens since they have an exceedingly long range. There also is the risk of an especially powerful push breaking through a weaker unit and causing havoc within the box's centre.
~:)
yeah im thinking about a few well placed fireballs from an onager, or a rock taking out a sidefacing row.
Too bad that in Armored box case AI wasn't programmed to fire all his missiles and then orderly retreat.
And than attack again.
And again
And again
....
Very true, especially the last possibility, though I find that it doesn't happen a lot with better quality hoplites. It happens a lot with militia hoplites, sometimes in Greek hoplites, and armoured hoplites only in the most heated pushes. Is it coincidence, or is there an actual effect like that in the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites
Yes - it's primarily effected by their morale status which you can see by right clicking on their unit card at any time on the strategic map, and when paused on the battle map.
Armoured Hoplites, for example, have a morale status of eight, while Hoplites have a morale status of four. Militia Hoplites have a morale status of two, making them vastly more likely to rout when the going gets tough. Spartan Hoplites have morale of fourteen, which is one of the highest ratings in the game.
Another factor is unit strength overall. Morale is the key factor, but this plays a role as well in the chances a unit has before it runs for its life. The higher the units attack and defence, the less casualties it will take and the more casualties it will inflict on its foes. If the enemy are killing them faster than they can kill the enemy, the chances are they will gradually waver till they route. Morale then takes over - the lower the morale, the faster this happens.
~:)
Noob Box :lol: I guess so, but I did this to get screenshots which I did for like 2 hours :lol: I wasnt aiming to totally wipe their armies out.
I don't mean to break from the topic at hand,but that's not historically accurate. The overhead pikes of the Macedonian syntagma provided very little protection,if any at all,from missile fire. That's one of two things that,in my opinion,makes the so-called Macedonian phalanx inferior to that of the Greeks. I'd rather have a large,heavy hoplon (see note below),rather than a small pelta,on one arm to hide behind in an arrow shower. The other being that I'd rather fight with a 9-foot dori that's useful in close combat when I'm flanked,than an 18-foot sarissa that'll be utterly useless for that same situation. :2cents:Quote:
Originally Posted by carbz
(Note - I know that's the wrong word,I just simply use it to distinguish said weapon from the older-style hoplite shield with the single grip in the center.)
Yes, but in the game they do, I think, and both the regular hoplites and the Macedonian phalanx switch to secondary weapon in close combat.
Regarding the defence of hoplites against missiles compared to pikemen, I, like SpartanGlory198 have found hoplites to be more effective than the pikemen. Levy Pikemen are particularly vulnerable, not having any armour in their stats to protect them.
This does seem to be partially negated by additional numbers though - although a Levy Pikeman unit may take slightly more casualties when under fire than their equal class of hoplite unit, Militia Hoplites, the percentage of the unit removed is equal to or slightly less than that the hoplite suffers.
When it comes to the effectiveness of the pikes/spears fending off missiles though, I'm not quite sure of their effectiveness, although I'm inclined to say that, like SpartanGlory, that it may be fairly negligible amount.This has always made me wonder - what happens to the big ten foot pikes when these units involve themselves in combat when out of the phalanx formation? Possibly could make a ridiculous, yet comical discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirinus
~:)
They drop them?
I love hoplites and find pikemen ok, but I relly think that if they ever bring out a RTW2 they should give the helenics some unit types that arent long-spearmen. I need people who charge aroung with either short-spears or swords.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites
Hoplites are quite easy to flank.
Get yourself over to the advertisement thread Barca, oh brutii brutii brutii, you gotta love the brutii!
Have you played the Extended Greek Mod? That's what I'm currently engrossed in and it uses SignifierOne's animation pack with shield_wall (if you have BI.exe,that is),which gives traditional hoplite units an overarm phalanx with the ability to charge. It was simple to download and install even by my standards,which is saying alot because I can barely figure out how WordPad works! It adds new and enlarged unit rosters with Area of Recruitment ability (i.e.,the ability to recruit native troop types such as Greek hoplites,Iberian infantry,etc.) with any faction owning said area,a few new factions like Saba,Baktria,etc,a larger map extending to India,and so on. I definitely recommend it to anyone like me who enjoys vanilla Rome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Barca
I just thought of a really crazy one that happened a few nights ago.
I was playing a sandbox siege of a small town with an army of Spartans against a horde of Eastern Infantry in XGM when,after the enemy's initial charge was routed by Spartan phalangites,I charged my Spartan Royal Bodyguard after a routing Eastern Infantry unit. They were intercepted,head on,by another Eastern Infantry that had sustained losses but not routed. The Spartans and Eastern contacted,only to have the Spartans pass right through them and literally trample them ALL into the ground without even raising their spears! It was hillarious,and a true test of Eastern Infantry's inferiority.
XGM is a great mod.
yes my friend, but in my personel experiance the computer aint dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanGlory198
It knows your tactic and when i do it I always get out flanked. thats why I love the box formation. I group them once in a square therefore keeping them in possition when i move them.
this way my troops are protected on all sides.
That same AI ain't exactly Alexander the Great,either!Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord of Achaea
That's where my relative over-reliance of cavalry comes into play. Once the initial fear factor wears off and my opponents begin their attempted flanking maneuver,lots of heavy cavalry on both of my wings quickly puts an end to that.
Plus,if you arrange your line in a reverse wedge before advancing,said enemy will more often than not focus directly on your center. When this happens,I'll order them to retreat,and the rest of the enemy army will typically abandon their positions and focus all attention to the gap left behind. When that happens,there's ample time (even in vanilla) to turn my infantry flanks inward and box them in on three sides.
Genius of the Athenians at Marathon,my friend.
I think you are mentioning a phlanax V shape with cav on the wings? that is a very good tactic if that is what you meant.
Yeah,that's the one. But I place my cavalry behind the wings to prevent them from being prematurely engaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wandering Scholar