V&V OOC/Signup Thread I

hi buddy

that might be my fault. I was approached by the GM during the event and asked to decide what to do with Agnes. First I tried to use her as a bargaining chip to get peace with some of our foes but when that didn't work I reasoned that the Prinz would be keen to reward the loyalty of Becker...

I was not aware (or had forgotten about) the agreement between Hummel and the Kaiser.

It rings a bell now though although I can't seem to find it in the threads. Was it public, IC knowledge? (ie. should the Prinz have known about it?)

(Don't worry, I'm not angry OC, only IC)

It might be partly my fault for not following the TIme of Troubles too closely, but I thought it was public(GH had just told me by a PM that the Kaiser was sending her north to Antwerp to marry Hummel).

Oh thank God, I've been missing this kind of Diet shenanigans for so long.

Answer on Agnes is coming. I have an OOC answer, need to think of something IC.

happy to play it, IC, that the Prinz just didn't know about it

Obviously IC Hummel's very annoyed now that he's not in the Imperial family now(and I'm a little disappointed), but just go with it IC - it's the Kaiser's call.

Understandable I suppose.

Don't worry phonics - it's not your fault. I'm always very careful to keep disputes in the IC realm(something which these games allow very well). Just don't be surprised if Hummel doesn't like Leopold.

hey no worries, I'm not taking this personally! Conflict is fun. And Leo can stick up for himself as you will shortly see... :laugh:

Aaaaand we have liftoff, nicely done so far guys. :yes: I think I'll wait for Hummel to make his reply before the Kaiser steps in.

Hummel better not reply! Leo's just getting started on the Dutchman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hümmel

yes, I'm aware that he's not really Dutch, but he is Duke of Holland, hence Leo has decided to call him a Dutchman to annoy him

I feel I ought to explain my actions during the event OOC as well as in. With regard to the Hamburg deal, I was originally trying to get peace and an alliance in exchange for a marriage between Agnes and their prince. unfortunately he was already married and they (cecil) basically gave me an ultimatum of hamburg or nothing, pointing out that the poles were about to take it.

At the time I didn't know who else was still playing and I also reasoned that Hamburg had been Tristan's (who had started all the issues with the Danes in the first place) and so while I knew it was now (and recently) Igno's I figured that if we came out of the event and Igno was still playing I (as Kaiser) could make it up to him somehow.

I was actually pretty pleased to get 1000 florins per turn an alliance and peace for an underdeveloped castle that only brought in 500 per turn.

As for Princess Agnes I genuinely didn't remember at the time that there was any prior arrangement. I now feel like I might have known it at some point but forgotten - maybe GH pm'd me at some stage? I have long since deleted it if that's the case.

I'm sorry if anything I did was out of the spirit of the way these games are played - it's my first one of these and I've felt all along like I was totally winging it.

Cecil, I assume that tribute from the Danes goes to the Kaiser and not to the Prinz? If it goes to me let me know and I'll give it to Igno instead.

I could have had Agnes marry Hummel, but I chose to have the Prinz settle the issue because he was de facto ruler at the time, and because I was hoping for some IC shenanigans.

Incidentally, if you'll look at the records you can see that of the 1000 florin tribute, 250 have gone to the Prinz for his role as de facto Kaiser while the other 750 have been going to Hummel. The former while switch to Heinrich, the de facto and de jure Kaiser, while the latter will continue to go to Hummel as a standing order until it is changed by the Kaiser.

Around the time my computer was stolen, I had three suitors for Agnes: Hummel, Otto von Kassel, and King Knud of Denmark's son as played by Cecil. I was semi-publicly entertaining offers for all three, but at the same time I knew that she was going to get married to a player character. I may have decided which of the two she was going to marry and told someone, but there are 1,803 PMs between my inbox and sent messages that I need to look through to find it, and I have no desire to do so at 3 in the morning when I have class in 7 hours.

Then my computer got stolen, and my activity steadily decreased to the point where I just never bothered to reinstall M2TW and LTC on the new machine until now, by which point everything had passed.

darn it, just when we get going again we lose a character

the french eh, can't trust 'em.

I realised that Heinrich couldn't arrive in time to come to my aid, and I figured that my cavalry would be better in the open field rather than in the city. He didn't have anything to lose, and given the way he'd been treated in the Diet at that point, he didn't care.

I'm annoyed he got killed, but there was no way to get a Hummel dynasty so it's not a huge loss.

Well damn, I guess we don't have any more avatars do we? Sorry iggy

@ post below, dont worry about it, I only need so much intrigue on my first turn XD

I had GH's PM somewhere, but it was about the time his PC got stolen and then the game nearly stalled.

I'm really kicking myself for attempting the sally now - it was a really stupid thing to do. Now I've gone and spoilt some developing intrigue. Sorry guys. :embarassed:

hey, don't beat yourself up mate, it sounds like there wasn't a lot of choice anyway. those dastardly french!

I haven't been a part of other games like these but I have lurked a bit and watched them and I have to say I think that enabling the hotseat so that Cecil controls all the bad guys makes this significantly harder.

we really can't just steamroller the AI like we would do in a SP game - because it is all human controlled!

So we need to be careful how we proceed and not make too many enemies at once.

My sympathies Ignoramus, I was in much the same position with Sigismund. Also, please post the updated save.

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

we really can't just steamroller the AI like we would do in a SP game - because it is all human controlled!

So we need to be careful how we proceed and not make too many enemies at once.

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I think that choice has been taken from us, at least until we make terms with a few of the many current enemies. :clown:

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Originally Posted by Helmet Becker

I think that choice has been taken from us, at least until we make terms with a few of the many current enemies. :clown:

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Despite the clown face, this is a serious point. If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

Hi all, nice to see the games' going strong! I still don't have the time to start participating (you wouldn't BELIEVE how much time (and space) a 1.5 year old takes!) but I check the forums occasionally to see how things are going.

Nice to see you're still around, Rowan. Good luck with your kid!

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Despite the clown face, this is a serious point. If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

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I like the challenge! We do need to buy ourselves some breathing space though...apart from the Kaiser and Prinz everyone is pretty much bankrupt and without armies.

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Originally Posted by Rowan

Hi all, nice to see the games' going strong! I still don't have the time to start participating (you wouldn't BELIEVE how much time (and space) a 1.5 year old takes!) but I check the forums occasionally to see how things are going.

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Believe it or not but I do(I have 4 year old ~:))

Hello,

First off I'd like to apologize for simply vanishing about two months ago, I should have said something. I got rather busy and distracted by other things, having only this game and mafia games in the gameroom as attachments to the Org, I soon stopped visiting all together.

Talking to Zim has gotten me back in the mood for on of these games and I more or less have the free time. (I hope) So seeing as old Vaclav is still alive and still assigned to me, can I jump back into the game?

Oh, can I be put on the queue list for a new avatar? Thanks.

Excellent, looks like we're getting the band back together. :applause:

Now, if only we could get some of the Throne Room ghosts back in here...

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

If I were coordinate France, Hungary, Poland, Milan and Venice that would be too much of an advantage for even the vast difference in skill between the players and the battle AI to bridge. That is why now, only France is human-controlled. Honestly I think I was overambitious with the hotseat function, and I intend to scale it back a bit. It may be that splitting the player factions resources between the players is enough to make things suitable difficult.

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Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

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I second every part of this.

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

Just a few more thoughts on this.

You're right that you could combine all the different factions' forces and wipe us out. However, it's unlikely you'd ever do that as it wouldn't be realistic, unless of course we were really dumb and just went around picking fights with everyone at the same time.

I think there's a lot of scope to make the game richer using the hotseat function so I wouldn't give up on it yet - for example you could play out realistic wars between factions on our borders, you could develop their infrastructure in a sensible way (like a human would do) so that they become more of an implicit threat to us, things like that..best thing is you can dip in and out of it depending on how much time you have.

You could even use your god's eye view to give us snippets of information about the outside world, a diplomatic report if you like. I know I'd enjoy that and it would add to the immersion and give opportunities for roleplay.

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The big problem, on my end, is how many roles I'm going to play. By default I have to be GM. I'd also like to play as Lothar Zirn. Then there's all the factions. All these roles have different priorities. As GM, I want players to have fun, participation to increase, etc. As France I (normally) want to stomp the Reich into the ground. If I play as multiple factions, how do I handle fighting against myself? I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I think we need to take it slowly.

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

The big problem, on my end, is how many roles I'm going to play. By default I have to be GM. I'd also like to play as Lothar Zirn. Then there's all the factions. All these roles have different priorities. As GM, I want players to have fun, participation to increase, etc. As France I (normally) want to stomp the Reich into the ground. If I play as multiple factions, how do I handle fighting against myself? I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I think we need to take it slowly.

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Yeah fair enough and of course all this is surely already a big draw on your time, so it would be dependent on your ability and willingness to take it further.

Assuming however that it is both practical and fun for you to do it - if it were me I would probably let it be 'story-led' in that I would first come up with a narrative and then 'act it out' through the various factions and characters under your control.

Say for example you wanted to simulate a war between (eg) Denmark and Poland. You might decide that the Danes want to move into Polish territory and they come up with an invasion plan (stack 'x' is assigned the job, gets on a boat and carries out the invasion). Meanwhile you decide the Poles are informed of this (they have a spy in Denmark) and ready a stack to take on the Danes. The battle will take place somewhere where the two will meet and will be determined by autoresolve. Or if for story reasons you want one of them to win you could play out the battle or use a console cheat to get it done. Etc etc.

We might find out about some or all of this on the grapevine and then have the opportunity to take advantage of it by either invading Denmark or perhaps joining them in their war against the Poles. Or ignore it completely.

Zirn might be irrelevant in this scenario but in a similar situation involving France he could play a role.

This kind of thing might only happen every once in a while, when you are struck by inspiration. The rest of the time the factions could be left to the AI or only partially interfered with (ie. you might decide to develop one decent castle in each neighbouring faction to give yourself the option of recruiting good troops, or a port for naval development. This could of course always be done quickly with console cheats.)

Cecil, if you want to have a break from controlling the AI and join in, then I'd be happy to take over until I get my new avatar.

That's a good idea - share the load as it were. Bit like a succession game! First to die has to be GM until the next one dies. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

That's a good idea - share the load as it were. Bit like a succession game! First to die has to be GM until the next one dies. :laugh4:

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Guess whom I'll be targeting first... :laugh4:

How long do you reckon I'll have to wait for an avatar?

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Originally Posted by Ignoramus

Guess whom I'll be targeting first... :laugh4:

How long do you reckon I'll have to wait for an avatar?

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I don't know how many people are in the queue ahead of you but for my part I'll be accepting all adoptions and MotH offers to try to get more people into the game as quickly as possible.

If I may, I'm also willing to offer my services as Assistant GM, Cecil, should you require any assistance in managing the Empire's neighbours... I'm not ready to join yet but this might be the first step towards it..

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

If I may, I'm also willing to offer my services as Assistant GM, Cecil, should you require any assistance in managing the Empire's neighbours... I'm not ready to join yet but this might be the first step towards it..

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Tristan controlling the AI factions? :hide:

GH, are you going to give Flax permission to command the Frankfurt garrison in defence of the city?

The Poles are ten units plus BG, Premyslid has just three, there are four in Frankfurt and he can recruit two mercs on the Prinz' account, bringing him to nine which makes for a decent chance of victory. Without the Frankfurt spear he is only maximum five units...and the Poles have mounted xbows too

I'm not giving anybody permission to do anything until I check out the save, and I can't right now (as per the post in the other thread).

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I'm not giving anybody permission to do anything until I check out the save, and I can't right now (as per the post in the other thread).

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yeah fair enough, check it out first!

EDIT: Double post, sorry

If it's alright with Cecil and Tristan, I'd like to take control of France and Milan.

I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

I have started a new thread for the History of the Empire. I will finish it tomorrow, and by the end of next week I will have both a Mausoleum and a Library thread.

There still seem to be mercs in the area, or at least nearby where Vaclav is.

Wish me luck, I'm going after the group besieging Innsbruck since I can't reach Frankfurt...

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

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Originally Posted by Helmet Becker

There still seem to be mercs in the area, or at least nearby where Vaclav is.

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Phew!

Good luck buddy

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

I'm thinking maybe Flax can beat that Polish stack in autoresolve - it's full of mounted xbows which will be a big pain on the battlemap but will suck in AR.

EDIT: Also it looks like they hired those mercs that we didn't hire last season.

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I'd rather fight the battle myself than auto resolve, its more interesting, even if it probably will lead to Vaclav dying. I talked to Zim and the plan right now is hiring the mercs and then moving next to the army besieging Frankfurt, so if it attacks, Vaclav will fight the battle. If they don't attack, well, I'm honestly hoping for some reinforcements.

I'm also lending Vaclav the one unit I have in range, militia in Nuremburg. Is that something for the status thread or can I just pm Cecil?

Also, I have seen my doom and it is the Milanese army. It's larger than mine, full of superior units, and has cavalry.This is Becker signing off, hopefully to be still alive come dawn.

That....went poorly. I started with a disadvantage in terrain but managed to double time my troops to a fairly flat area. Sent my two man knight unit to lead their full Mailed Knight unit on a merry chase around the map, then managed to start routing their militia with a couple charges. Unfortunately I let Becker get tied up while trying to roll up the routers and watched his unit's numbers dropped as I tried in vain to order him out of melee.

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Originally Posted by TheFlax

even if it probably will lead to Vaclav dying.

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It's up to you of course, but I think we've lost enough Dukes for one turn! :no:

Poor Becker, he deserved better than that...

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

It's up to you of course, but I think we've lost enough Dukes for one turn! :no:

Poor Becker, he deserved better than that...

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Seconded. Be careful, everybody.

I guess this gives you even more incentive to change your name back when the time comes, Zim. :laugh4:

I think it's quite a good idea to keep the Kaiser from being burned at the stake. On reflection.

However, I strongly suspect there's a large Hungarian army bearing down on us from just nearby and if it attacks us we will be forced by the format of this game to fight it as an offensive battle won't we? Which would get us excommunicated anyway..Cecil am I wrong about that?

If I'm right and we want to avoid excommunication maybe the best thing is to withdraw from Budapest and go fight the Milanese instead to avenge Becker. Then if the Magyar come calling they'll be on our land and we can defend ourselves without incurring Papal wrath.

Is that right?

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Seconded. Be careful, everybody.

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I thought I was. :clown: While I can tend to sometimes just throw my generals into the fray I've been careful with Becker, and was completely ready to pull out and withdraw if needed. Then the shiny gold ring of a Milanese chain route loomed ahead of Becker, and he kept pushing for those last few dead enemy soldiers needed....until he ran into the pointy sticks of the more professional merc spearmen Milan was fielding... :embarassed:

I guess I'm in the queue behind Iggy for a new character. C'mon, everyone, expand so we get lots of adoptions and MotHs. :clown:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I guess this gives you even more incentive to change your name back when the time comes, Zim. :laugh4:

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Indeed, unless maybe as a memorial.

P.S. I've decided that the more I have invested in a character, the more likely they are to die (except Arintheos for some reason). Henceworth, I shall try not to care about any generals I get. :clown:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

I think it's quite a good idea to keep the Kaiser from being burned at the stake. On reflection.

However, I strongly suspect there's a large Hungarian army bearing down on us from just nearby and if it attacks us we will be forced by the format of this game to fight it as an offensive battle won't we? Which would get us excommunicated anyway..Cecil am I wrong about that?

If I'm right and we want to avoid excommunication maybe the best thing is to withdraw from Budapest and go fight the Milanese instead to avenge Becker. Then if the Magyar come calling they'll be on our land and we can defend ourselves without incurring Papal wrath.

Is that right?

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I'm not quite sure of the specifics, which is why I left some room for maneuvering in the Kaiser's latest tirade. From what I remember (and this is probably more likely to be wrong), defensive battles don't trigger the Pope's wrath, offensive battles do, without respect to territory or anything like that.

That's right, you can defend all you want without risk of being excomm'ed but don't go on the offensive...

Every single Heinrich in every parallel universe has just completely blown his stack right now. :laugh4:

Even worse then when the Byzantines took Rome in KotR and his scream from beyond the grave echoed across the whole world? :beam:

Revenge on these Poles is now of paramount importance

Touché, Cecil. :yes:

Just posting to say I'll be able to play the save in a few hours.

Oog. :dizzy2:

I think now would be a good time to solicit opinions from the players on the difficulty of V&V. In previous TW RPGs, the AI has generally been regarded as a non-threat. The question then is whether or not we have the opposite problem now. Thoughts?

Incidentally, I tried fighting the battle before I sent it to TheFlax. I camped out in a forest of course, but I was very impressed with how the AI handled me. They took the initiative immediately, charging my archers with their general. At first I thought it was the old "suicidal general" shtick, but after engaging the town militia the general actually withdrew! This occupied me long enough for the cavalry to surround me on both flanks, and then the AI really let me have it with a three-pronged assault. Even though they were mostly missile cavalry, I confess I made it worse when I became unnerved and broke my formation in a vain attempt to regain the initiative, and they made me pay for it. I tried to help the left flank by having Vaclav charge them from the rear, but then the enemy general charged Vaclav in the rear! It was a complete rout.

It was an interesting battle to play. I started in a similar fashion and things ended pretty much the same way, as you'll see in the battle report.

I think right now we are fighting too many factions at once. Inadvertently we might have shifted to the other extreme of the scale, finding ourselves in a somewhat impossible situation. Unlike LotR or KotF we don't have a ton of RGBs to help and we player controlled enemy factions, the AI won't be shuffling around or doing anything too stupid. Then there's the fact that we are against multiple factions. It just seems it could be toned down a bit. Though, I am all for having some losses and setbacks, the times in other games where we had a huge streak of wins with barely any losses felt pretty flat.

I think the difficulty of this one is largely our own fault for playing with such reckless abandon. We all (myself included) hared off at the start invading left right and sundry as if we were playing a SP game against the AI. We then did it again when the event was over!

If instead we had taken a more measured approach, making alliances and treaties, building up and defending our borders sufficiently before extending ourselves in adventures I think we would have found it much more manageable. As it is we got stuck in a bit of a downward spiral. Having said that I still think we can turn it around, but only if we seriously buck up our ideas.

If we had played a hotseat game like this against other players we'd be dead by now. You can't just go around attacking your neighbours without diplomacy or strategy, unless you have overwhelming force, which we do not.

However, one thing I would say is that I don't think that most of the players have had enough money at any point to have any options about what to do. The only reason I've been able to keep a decent sized army is that Vienna is so rich and I built a silver mine. Dukes der Bartige, Becker, Premyslid and Hummel never had enough cash to defend their own lands properly. Under this ruleset there's not too much incentive to pool resource - I have been forced to do so recently because I could see the game ending abruptly if I did not, but otherwise I've been quite happy to sit on my treasury in the knowledge that I can use it to further my own character's ambitions at the expense of others.

So one suggestion I have is maybe to inject some cash into some of the less-rich settlements if they are to serve as capitals of a Duchy.

I think the challenge level would be just about right if we didn't go off in all directions as Phonics had said. I also never should have fought that battle, but felt pressured to defend the settlement Becker had so recently liberated and then been granted (so, in other words, fairly releastic motivations I think. :yes:). I think the title of Duke also went to my head a little. I was the Duke of my House, and in my mind that meant I had to defend it (never mind I was in charge of a group of which I was the only member. :clown:).

I believe we all learned our lesson pretty well. I know I'm raring to get another character and get back in, and planning on doing a story or two and maybe posting as an "anonymous elector" in the diet. The only thing I might suggest to the Emperor (although it is his Lordship's business) is maybe to hold off on naming new Dukes for a while. This will pool most of the impending new characters into one or the other of the new Houses, and I think in the current circumstances fewer Houses with more generals will better defend what lands we have, and any new ones we might get (and I fully encourage current players to conquer some land so we start getting adoption offers :laugh4:).

I wouldn't mess too much with settlement income. Later in the game they'll be making plenty of money, and with our smaller number of Houses people will likely be pooling more resources, expecially after recent losses. I would actually be doing a lot of recruiting in a couple turns if Becker had lived. The money I lost was mostly in my time as a landless noble expected to pay his bodyguard's wages.

Also, I predict within a few months time that we'll be fighting all of our neighbors and complaining how easy it is. :beam:

Hummel's sally was rather suicidal, but to be honest, he didn't have much to look forward too. Antwerp was a backwater, and the loss of Saxony really hurt him.

I did think the early expansion was too much, but then again, there wasn't enough conflict to prevent it.

Well, we don't need to worry about overstretching now that we've been relieved of most of our outlying settlements, and one central one. :clown:

I think Hummel had things to look forward to. If he had survived he'd likely have gotten any of the other territories in the area taken, and Antwerp would have become a rich city in a dozen or so turns. Plus, Flemish Cloth.

I'm interested to see what the coming turns will bring. Hopefully a more focused and cooperative HRE, but probably as dysfunctional of one as we've always had (and I'm including KOTR here). :laugh4:

Also, nice battle report up by TheFlax. I'll try to do one for Becker's last stand as well..

Great battle report Flax, enjoyed that. Those spear from Frankfurt would have made all the difference I suspect. Ideally facing mounted ranged troops you would concentrate fire on them from foot archers and xbows. This is how I used to fight Mongols - a line of heavy spear to keep them at bay and banks of xbows to take out their HAs. You didn't really have the option though it seems.

I didn't even know Lothar was still alive. :clown:

Yes, alive and kicking (Milan for now... German butts later :clown:)

I would like to announce that Ignoramus will be playing the part of the Kingdom of France for the remainder of the war. Please direct all IC queries to him, all previous messages to the Kingdom of France have been forwarded to him already.

Guys, there was problem with that save for France.

A French army got attacked by an English army and I retreated. But then two small Imperial armies got attacked by Hungary and Milan and I couldn't do anything without resolving the battles. When I ended the turn, there was a diplomatic offer from Hungary to the HRE, which I couldn't ignore before saving.

What should I do?

upload the save for France on the screen for the first battle. People will play both battles and choose the diplomacy option, then hand the save back to you?

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Originally Posted by Ignoramus

Guys, there was problem with that save for France.

A French army got attacked by an English army and I retreated. But then two small Imperial armies got attacked by Hungary and Milan and I couldn't do anything without resolving the battles. When I ended the turn, there was a diplomatic offer from Hungary to the HRE, which I couldn't ignore before saving.

What should I do?

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Hmm, you should be able to save at the screen where you decide whether to autosolve by pressing escape and bringing up the menu. I'm assuming you mean the remnant's of Becker's army which, since they're captain led, should be auto-resolved anyway. As for the diplomatic offer from Hungary, I'm guessing it will keep repeating itself so as long as you save before it you can check what is, then PM the offer to GH and me.

It could be my army as well however.
Jens Herden

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

It could be my army as well however.
Jens Herden

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You're right. I checked ahead and you get attacked by an eleven-hundred strong Hungarian army with about 400-500 horse archers.

Ignoramus, try this save. I had the French retreat from the English attack, then auto-resolved on the captain-led stack. If Nightbringer wants to fight then you'll need to find someway to save either at the fight screen or before it.

um, can i retreat?
I have what, 100 men?