Jens Herden applauds loudly
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Jens Herden applauds loudly
The Prinz stands to address the assembled Electors. He is resplendent in the black satin robes of Osterreich and the crown of the Imperial Prinz glitters atop his blonde head.
Mein Kaiser, good Electors, it is my pleasure to address you today.
Let me begin by praising the passion and commitment of my father the Kaiser. He is tireless in his defence of the Reich against our many assailants and I have nothing but admiration for his strong and concerted leadership.
As I have said to this body before I believe that our current woes are a direct result of our dividded interests and an indisciplined approach to foreign policy with our neighbours. Too often in the past we have charged off in opposite directions starting wars that we have been ill-equipped to finish. I have several matters to bring before you today, all of which will speak to this same theme.
Firstly, I am glad that he has begun by raising the issue of the Marshallship. While I take his compliment I believe that the position of Reichsmarschall has itself failed the Reich. While the Kaiser's proposed Charter Amendment partly deals with the issue, I would go further. It is my belief that the Reichsmarschall should have the power to raise and sustain an army which can be used in the common interest of the Reich, whether that be for defence or attack. Under the current set of powers there is neither adequate funding for the Marshall nor is there sufficient access to quality and loyal troops. To this end, I propose an alternative Charter Amendment as follows:
I believe these changes would enhance the powers of the Reichsmarschall to the extent that all Electors could feel secure in the knowledge that there is a centrally controlled permanent defensive capability, accountable directly to this body, that can assist them should they come under attack from the Reich's neighbours, or indeed can take part in targeted offensive actions in pursuit of new territory should we have that luxury.Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1a: The "Marshal" section of Charter provision 6.12 is amended to read as the following (changes are in bold):
Reichsmarschall:
Term: Self-nominated and elected every normal Diet Session.
Powers:
(1) The Reichsmarshall is no longer to have sole authority to recruit mercenaries, but shall have first refusal on their hire in priority to other nobles.
(2) The Reichsmarshall shall have the power to recruit troops from the recruitment facilities of any Duchy, to be paid for and supported from the Reichsmarschall's budget, with the consent of the settlement owner.
(2) Can recruit and disband mercenary and regular regiments in the Reichsmarschall's army, can move mercenary and regular regiments to and from armies or assign to/remove from an Elector
(3) Recruitment and upkeep are paid for by a pool of funds which is sustained by an income tax on all electors automatically paid each turn and by a flat tax on the proceeds from sacking captured settlements and ransoming enemies.
Penalties:
(1) If the pool runs out, mercenaries are paid for out of the Marshal's treasury.
(2) The 'Mercenary Tax' rate will be a fixed 10% rate levied against the income of all Electors. A further tax is to be levied of 50% on any sacking proceeds and on ransom proceeds to support the Reichsmarshall's budget.
Secondly, I would propose that Count Jens Herden be nominated for the position of Reichsmarchall for the coming campaign seasons, until the next Diet session.
Thirdly, I have spoken in this body before about the need to re-enforce certain aspects of the Imperial Charter with regard to capturing settlements. While it was no doubt desirable to regain our lost lands as quickly as possible and without bureacratic impediment it is my belief that we should propose an Edict for each new territory that shall be captured by the Reich's forces in future.
To that end I propose that my own force shall capture Milan this coming campaign season, cutting off the serpents head and ending all effective resistance from the accursed Milanese.
I further propose that the capture of Stettin be considered authorised by our previous discussion on the matter, leaving the Margrave free to bring a further Edict to this Diet session as he desires.
Fourthly I would like to support the Kaiser's position regarding the eventual restoration of the lost Duchies of the Reich. It is not desirable that a single House should permanently dominate the Reich and I accept that this means that at some stage the power of Osterreich should be balanced in this way. I will engage in private discussions with the Kaiser and others on this matter once the Diet session is closed.
Fifthly, I would like to put the ownership of the captured fortress of Innsbruck to the Diet vote as is envisaged in the Imperial Charter. Even with the issue of House balance in mind it is desirable for the good of the Reich that Austria should have access to a castle for the recruitment of troops which can be used to defend against the Turkish threat to our East. Innsbruck should be made part of Austria, at least until such a time as we are in a position to transfer it to a restored Duchy of Bavaria.
I apologise for the extended speech but there are several matters at stake this session.
I urge all Electors to support my proposals and I welcome debate on these issues.
Excellent speech! It is a joy to me that men such as you and our Kaiser are here to lead us in these troubled times.
I thoroughly support your proposals my Lord Prinz, and will gladly accept the position of Reichsmarshall so long as my fellow Electors agree to it as well.
I promise that if I am elected to the position that I shall do my utmost to both defend and expand the Reich. Although we have not yet come into direct conflict, it is clear that the Turks will soon become our greatest threat. I have now fought many battles in the East against the Magyar, and know that territory, and the ways of battle, well. No Turk shall beat me as long as I have loyal men at my side. If I were granted the title of Reichsmarshall, I would indeed have these men, especially if the well crafted proposal of the Prinz is passed.
Additionally, I know I have come into conflict with some members of this body, Jens nods to Theodericus but I shall of course put all that behind me in my role as Reichsmarshall, the common good of the Reich is far more important than any personal disputes.
More immediately though, I have an edict of my own to propose. In order to gain a strong castle in the East for the Reich with which to train troops against the Turks, I request permission to lead a force to capture the castle of Ragusa.
The Prinz.
My thanks for your support Good Count of Budapest.
I take it from your words that you are seconding my Charter Amendment? But perhaps you could state such explicitly for the benefit of other Electors.
In turn I second your proposed Edict to capture Ragusa.
I also require a seconder to my own House Edict to capture Milan - would you be so kind?
Kaiser Heinrich:
Point of order, I believe that the Edict to capture Ragusa must be proposed in the proper form, e.g. as such:
Edict 4.x: The Diet authorizes the _______ of __________.
The Prinz.
Indeed.
To re-iterate, I propose House Edict 4.2 - The Diet authorizes the capture of Milan.
As a House Edict this must have the public backing of at least two members of the Duchy of Osterreich.
Ah yes, thank you my Lord, it would be 4.1 would it not?
Well then, I propose
Edict 4.1: The diet authorizes the capture of Ragusa.
And yes, I did mean to say that explicitly, I second the Prinz' Charter Amendment 4.1a, and second his edict 4.2 for the capture of Milan.
Theodericus, now back at his seat writing, makes a short pause to wave his fingers to Friedrich von Eisel, before returning to his papers. Friedrich steps forward and speaks.
"The Margrave wish to voice his whole-hearted support of the Kaiser's intents to recreate Duchies of old. It is just the kind of foresight that is so badly needed in this era.
As for this business about the position of Marshall, the Margrave feels that the position has wholly failed, and in truth He would rather see that it was simply abandoned and forgotten. He fears it is beyond reform, but if one should be attempted, it should be given less power, not more. He can thus not see himself supporting the Prinz's proposal.
If the Diet cannot agree to remove it, then the Margrave will simply have to stand by the Kaiser's proposal instead. It at least goes in the right direction."
The Prinz frowns.
It is disappointing that the Margrave does not have the vision to support my proposal. I would have thought that, menaced as he is by the Polish hordes, he would be only too happy to see a publicly funded army ride to his rescue.
As to the strength of Osterreich I believe it is over-stated. While it is true that we have been blessed with a strong succession, as the Kaiser himself points out one day (and may it be far from now!) I shall be leaving the Duchy. Further, we own but two provinces at present - equal to the Margrave's own holdings! And somewhat less than the Imperial Demesne.
So let us not be in a hurry to weaken Osterreich at the very time when its strength is of such value to the Reich.
Friedrich turns back to the Margrave, unsure whether he should answer or if the Margrave would do it himself. As the Margrave doesn't even pretend to have heard the Prinz's words, Friedrich continues.
"If a position fails, the solution can hardly be to pour more power and responsibility upon it. It would be foolish to do so, like adding more men onto an already sinking ship. Much better to abandon it alltogether. We do not need it anyway."
The Prinz.
I accept your position Good Margrave but I respectfully disagree. The position of Marshall has failed because it was inadequately funded and had to resort to expensive mercenaries alone for its needs. My proposal corrects both of these for the good of the Reich.
Have we forgotten the mad scramble to attempt to defend and regain Frankfurt, Antwerp, Innsbruck? And the vulnerable position in which this left our own home territories including those of Brandenburg-Bohemia? Had there been a standing defensive army in place we could have used it for either purpose instead of putting Ducal lives at risk in battles against the odds.
"I'll remind you that these things happened as the direct cause of a few things:
1) The Kaiser was absent.
2) The then-owner of Bohemia, Vaclav Premyslid, had made an exodus from the political as well as the military scene.
3) The Margrave had no money at all, thus he could not muster any army what so ever.
Those are the main causes to at least why the north came so close to crumbling, and why it indeed is still in a weak state, far from recovered. However, all of these are temporary causes, and all of them have been resolved. The Kaiser is back. Bohemia is under the Margrave's control, and he is shirking none of his responsibilities. Partly thanks to his acquisition of Bohemia and partly thanks to the aid he has received from the Kaiser, the Margrave is now in an economic position where he can even think about invading and conquering new territories.
Though it would be much too rash to say that the north is safe - far from it, as you shall see if you look out over the walls - it is certainly recovering. It is not a time to start throwing heaps on money on a failed position. Just throw it out and treat mercenaries like regular soldiers: bought and supported by the noble hiring them, under his full control. What's wrong with that?"
There is nothing in my proposal that would stop you from hiring your own mercenaries. In fact it liberalises the process so that you may do just that, provided the Marshall is not himself in the process of recruiting his army.
Indeed, with the power to recruit regular troops the Marshall need not even rely on mercenaries any longer but instead on cheaper and more loyal regular troops of the Reich.
What you would gain, for a small portion of your income, is the added security such that when you proceed to invade Poland, or anywhere else, another force would remain behind to guard your flank and rear, without distraction from having to defend his own personal territory. Surely you can see the utility in that?
Indeed it is my view that by passing this legislation we would be providing a model for the world to admire - it is my belief that in times to come all nations will see the benefit of a centrally-funded standing army. Why should we not lead the world in this regard? It would strengthen us immeasurably against our foes.
I second Edict 4.1, Edict 4.2, and Charter Amendment 4.1a.
I also submit Edict 4.3: The Diet authorizes the capture of Zagreb.
I understand fully the arguments made against the Marshall position. These past years it's use has seemed limited, and most have been just seeking his permission for themselves to hire mercenaries privately. I think this may have been a result of a lack of resources. I would see the Marshallship strengthened for this next 15 years until another Diet. Then could we see if the problem is the position itself, or merely circumstances. If it fails again I would gladly second and vote for any edicts to diminish it.
I second edict 4.3
I second Edict 4.3
Kaiser Heinrich:
Upon further reflection, I would be amenable to the Prinz's Reichsmarschall proposal if the phrase "but shall have first refusal on their hire in priority to other nobles" is omitted from the final legislation. This way we would be able to totally separate the Marshal's powers over the hiring of mercenaries - which we can mostly agree has been a failure - with the Marshal's new powers, which is more of a centralized defense force than anything it was previously.
In addition, I hereby award the province of Innsbruck to the Duchy of Austria. This is the result of a private discussion between the Prinz and myself and we have both agreed that the province will be given to Bavaria upon that Duchy's eventual reestablishment.
The Prinz stands once more, inclining his head to the Kaiser.
So be it mein Kaiser. In order to gain your support I shall amend the legislation as you propose, the amended form to be as follows:
May I assume the legislation receives the same seconders or do we need to hear from them individually again?Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1b: The "Marshal" section of Charter provision 6.12 is amended to read as the following (changes are in bold):
Reichsmarschall:
Term: Self-nominated and elected every normal Diet Session.
Powers:
(1) The Reichsmarshall is no longer to have sole authority to recruit mercenaries.
(2) The Reichsmarshall shall have the power to recruit troops from the recruitment facilities of any Duchy, to be paid for and supported from the Reichsmarschall's budget, with the consent of the settlement owner.
(2) Can recruit and disband mercenary and regular regiments in the Reichsmarschall's army, can move mercenary and regular regiments to and from armies or assign to/remove from an Elector
(3) Recruitment and upkeep are paid for by a pool of funds which is sustained by an income tax on all electors automatically paid each turn and by a flat tax on the proceeds from sacking captured settlements and ransoming enemies.
Penalties:
(1) If the pool runs out, mercenaries are paid for out of the Marshal's treasury.
(2) The 'Mercenary Tax' rate will be a fixed 10% rate levied against the income of all Electors. A further tax is to be levied of 50% on any sacking proceeds and on ransom proceeds to support the Reichsmarshall's budget.
And I thank you good Kaiser for the award of Innsbruck. This issue no longer needs to go to the vote.
Kaiser Heinrich:
I believe in cases of amending legislation seconders are required to restate their support for said legislation. In any case, you will need one less, as I hereby second CA 4.1b.
I too second CA 4.1b
It doesn't need it, but I also second CA4.1b.
As the Diet seems to be slowly coming to a close I would like to bring up a few subjects.
First, I nominate myself for the position of Spymaster.
Next, there is an upcoming problem we haven't spoken of here this session. Although the Reich seems to be in much better condition than when my family was driven from their lands in Essen during the Time of Troubles there is still an encroaching danger beyond the usual cadre of enemies we've come to know and loath.
I speak in regard to the mad ravings of that Turk that came in here some time ago. While I am not sure one such as he could truly be representative of a nation, these are heathens we are talking about so we can rule nothing out. The Turks rule vast territories and grow ever closer to our border. In power they are greater than our current enemies combined. I have no doubt German steel can stop them but it may be best to be prepared in case they are belligerent as they seem. Even the Reich is vulnerable when caught unprepared, as some events of the past couple decades have taught us.
The Prinz.
Von Essen I admire your foresight but what would you have us do beyond what we currently strive to achieve?
Osterreich will be the Duchy which will face the first assault if these heathens choose to attack us and we move to strengthen our hand by consolidating our hold on the region. By eliminating the Milanese and conquering the western Hungarian provinces we should gain a position of power which will give us the means to resist them.
What more should we do to prepare?
Kaiser Heinrich:
Before this Diet session draws to a close, there is one other issue to discuss, and it is more of an administrative thing than anything else. As you all know, Lothar Zirn, while not being in a state of war with the Reich, is being uncooperative and therefore does not have a presence in this Diet. Now, I believe he is currently styling himself Count of Genoa, however, this is unfortunately not the case. I hereby invoke Charter Provision 6.11, specifically Clause 3:
At this time I would like to announce that Genoa shall remain in the Imperial Dominion for the time being. God save the Reich.Quote:
The city of Frankfurt and its outlying province will become part of the newly-created Imperial Dominion. All newly-conquered cities become part of the Imperial Dominion until/unless the Kaiser grants them to a Duchy, as per Charter provision 6.6.
The Prinz.
Hear Hear! The rebel Zirn should not enrich himself at the expense of the Reich if he is not prepared to swear allegiance.
However, mein Kaiser, your statement seems to highlight a contradiction at the heart of our Charter, wherein your quoted 6.11 seems to contradict clause 3.4 which states:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
How are we to reconcile this? Is 3.4 to be considered repealed or should we continue to vote on the allocation of captured settlements in the way I had proposed to do with Innsbruck? I have no doubt in this case that the assembled Electors would vote to deny Genoa to the rebel, but it strikes me that in the future we may need to clarify this process.
Kaiser Heinrich:
As Charter Provision 6.11 was originally proposed as an Amendment and came after the original Charter was signed into existence, it is my interpretation that the contents of 6.11 override the highlighted part of 3.4 and thus the Diet vote to determine settlement ownership is no longer valid. Instead, the happy task of determining provincial ownership is mine and mine alone.
However, you do bring up a valid issue in that the Charter is somewhat out-of-date and may need rewriting/clarifying in order to properly account for its changes. I will set my scribes to it soon enough.
(OOC: I'll take a look at it this weekend, have to write a paper right now.)
Mein Prinz,
I was thinking of anything at all rather than not discussing them and acting as if they are not an upcoming threat, as seems to have been our strategy up to this point.
By what seems happy chance our current plans will indeed help us prepare to deal with the Turks, but then so would any that involved eliminating some of our many enemies and consolidating our territory.
As an example, I think we should discuss possibly trying to improve our castles so that we may arm peasant fodder with crossbows,a potent weapon when dealing with the Muslims, who favor mounted archers. This requires no edict, just something for current owners of the Reich's castles to keep in mind.
We could also see about sending some kind of envoy to the Turkish court, in order to ascertain their intentions.
Hmmm...I always took it as the Kaiser granting the settlements unless a Diet vote hands them off to someone, although I see the argument for 6.11 superceding 3.4.
Either way I think the Zirn issue should be settled. Either he should be brought back into the fold of the Reich or eliminated. This half life of his cannot continue and makes the Reich look weak to other nations.
Crossbows should be within our capabilities, although I confess myself unwilling to invest too much in the facilities at Innsbruck if it is not to be my permanent posession.
Perhaps as Spymaster you could take it upon yourself to ascertain the state of facilities at Ragusa, while keeping a close eye on Turkish troop movements in the east?
As to Zirn, to my mind he exists in his limbo only because we have been beset with other more pressing issues. I agree that the matter should be seyttled forthwith...one way or another..
I plan on sending a spy to Ragusa right away if I get the position. As per the Turks, I would keep an eye on them for troop movements, although a diplomatic envoy still seems advisable. Spies cannot ascertain their intentions or the mood in their capital, only tell us where their armies are. Valuable information, but nonetheless information that can do with some supplementing.
Theodericus der Bartige finally puts down his pen and stands up. With another wave of his fingers, Friedrich von Eisel speaks.
"The Magnificent Margrave of Magdeburg wishes to speak."
He bows to Theodericus, and then sits down. Theodericus lifts his right hand in salute, and then turns to the Prinz and...
"... who are you? I fail to put a name to your face, you who think that nominating yourself for Spymaster is the same as acquiring that position. It is not, as I shall teach you, so you shouldn't be so arrogant as to presume such a thing. Lets make a sport out of it, shall we? I nominate myself for the position of Spymaster.
Moving on, I would like to propose the following:
I believe that this is a fair amendment to make sure that the Marshall's army is indeed used as advertised, and not abused to serve any one specific Duchy's interests.Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1c
Should Charter Amendment 4.1b pass, the following should be added to the Marshall position:
Penalties:
(3) The Marshall's army has 2 priorities, in order of importance:
a) To defend the Reich's current possessionsb) To reclaim lost settlementsThe Marshall's army cannot be used to conquer new settlements(4) The Marshall shall while holding this position lose all his ties to his Duchy and answer only to the Kaiser and the Diet
I also have two House Edicts to make. As I am the only representative here from Brandenburg-Bohemia who is eligible to vote, they require no seconders.
House Edict 4.4: The Diet authorizes Margrave Theodericus der Bartige to capture Stettin.
House Edict 4.5: The Diet authorizes Margrave Theodericus der Bartige to capture Breslau.
The Prinz grins at the Margrave's irascible nature.
Good Margrave, it is a pleasure to see you in such fine spirits.
I may be able to support your amendment but I'm not sure exactly what it means. What, in practice, will the following mean for the Marshall?
It is a worthy sentiment but vaguely drafted at present - it could be given a wide range of interpretations. Pray be more specific and I might consider seconding it.Quote:
(4)The Marshall shall while holding this position lose all his ties to his Duchy and answer only to the Kaiser and the Diet.
I should also point out that I will not support this measure unless point 3 is redrafted thus:
This will allow us flexibility should we collectively decide to use the Reichsmarschall's force as part of an offensive against an enemy which threatens the Reich and must be eradicated.Quote:
The Marshall's army cannot be used to conquer new settlements unless expressly authorised to do so by the Diet.
I agree with the sentiment which I perceive to be behind it, which is that the centrally funded army should not be used to further the territorial ambitions of individuals.
"Very well, I shall explain. Since the Reichmarshall's army would be paid for by all electors and is there for the defence of the Reich as a whole, he cannot be partial and must act in an objective manner. If he is a client of a Duke or a Margrave, then that conflicts with this responsibility, and allows for the Duke or Margrave in question to exert undue influence over him. So in order to avoid this, the man who is elected as Reichmarschall will, for the duration of his term as such, will not be a part of any Duchy. He would thus, while serving as Reichmarschall, stop being a client of his Duke, and instead be bound only to the Kaiser and the Diet.
This means that, while he is Reichmarschall, he is not a member of any Duchy and cannot recieve income from any land that is part of one. Whether this means that he keeps the land which is then removed from the Duchy, or if he forfeits that land altogether, matters little to me, though I think the former is better, as we can then add that income to the Reichmarshall's army. When his term is over, he returns to his Duchy together with any land that he might have taken with him.
Allow me then to rephrase my proposal:
Does that clear things up for you?"Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1c
Should Charter Amendment 4.1b pass, the following should be added to the Reichmarshall position:
Penalties:
(3) The Reichmarshall's army has two priorities, in order of importance:
(4) For the duration of his term, the Reichmarschall will secede together with any land he owns from his Duchy and answer only to the Kaiser and the Diet.a) To defend the Reich's current possessionsAs such, the Reichmarshall's army cannot be used to conquer new territory
b) To reclaim lost settlements
It does but I then cannot support it - for it would effectively disbar any Duke from serving as Reichsmarschall, restricting the position to lesser nobles. What if we have but Dukes as Electors? Then we shall have no Reichsmarschall.
Also, what is to become of the Reichsmarschall's personal lands if he is not able to spend money to improve them during his term? The Reich is then paralyzed in some part and cannot be developed.
Further, if the Reichsmarschall has no independent income then there is no further resource for him to fall back upon if the central budget is exhausted.
So I'm afraid I must oppose the measure unless this item is removed.
It's a pity, for I am in favour of the rest (with the minor amendment I proposed to (3)).
"If we have only Dukes then we will either have too many Dukes, or we will be in such a dire situation that we have worse things to think about. Besides, if the Duke becomes Reichmarschall, and he stays being Duke, then we have an even worse conflict of interest. In any case, there is nothing legally barring Dukes from becoming Reichmarschall; he would keep his settlements while being the Reichmarschall, and he will have his Duchy reinstated afterwards. For him, this would merely be a formal change, which is why I would prefer if the Reichmarschall was elected from non-Dukes. However, I have amended my proposal to better guarantee this.
As for his personal income and such, I did not mean to say that it would have to be used for his army. I said he could, and by that meant it to be exactly what you call for: an independent income to draw from if need be. It was in contrast to the option where he surrenders his land, which I did not propose. Those objections thus carry no weight. So, let me make a third draft:
Does this change your opinion on the matter?"Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1c
Should Charter Amendment 4.1b pass, the following should be added to the Reichmarshall position:
Penalties:
(3) The Reichmarshall's army has two priorities, in order of importance:
(4) For the duration of his term, the Reichmarschall will secede together with any land he owns from his Duchy and answer only to the Kaiser and the Diet. Immediately after his term is over, his status (and Duchy, if the Reichmarschall was a Duke) will be brought back to what it was before.a) To defend the Reich's current possessionsAs such, the Reichmarshall's army cannot be used to conquer new territory, unless expressively authorized to do so by the Diet. This, however, cannot surpass priority a) or b).
b) To reclaim lost settlements
I'm afraid my first objection still stands. The Reichsmarschallship is a temporary position which should be open to all Electors, Dukes and Margraves included. Indeed it is desirable that someone of the landed gentry take the position as they have access to resources to supplement the Marshall's budget.
Even in the situation of a Count (which is the only situation to which your rule would apply if Dukes be disbarred) I fail to see what practical difference it makes.
A Count already has his own income which is independent from the Duchy. I have no claim, for example, on the income of Budapest save what I choose to extract in tax. Count Herden is free to spend his money as he wishes.
What would your measure change of that situation, except that in name he would no longer be part of Osterreich?
"It has always been open for Dukes to join in, and still is. They will simply give up their title as Duke while being Reichsmarschall, keep their land, and then when the term is over automatically have their Duchy reinstated.
This would mean that the Reichmarschall is not personally bound as a client to any Duke. If count Herden is elected, for example, you would for the duration of his term be in no greater legal authority over him than I would. He would not be your client for the while. You cannot fail to see the point in this."Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1c
Should Charter Amendment 4.1b pass, the following should be added to the Reichmarshall position:
Penalties:
(3) The Reichmarshall's army has two priorities, in order of importance:
(4) For the duration of his term, the Reichmarschall will secede together with any land he owns from his Duchy and answer only to the Kaiser and the Diet. Immediately after his term is over, his status (and Duchy, if the Reichmarschall was a Duke) will be brought back to what it was before.a) To defend the Reich's current possessionsAs such, the Reichmarshall's army cannot be used to conquer new territory, unless expressively authorized to do so by the Diet. This, however, cannot surpass priority a) or b).
b) To reclaim lost settlements
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The Prinz has lost his patience.
I can clearly and certainly see the point in it, which is a rather transparent attempt to hobble Count Herden. It is a shame that you seem unable to leave your past grievances to one side and choose instead to continue this petty feud, wasting the Diet's time while you do so.
To answer the point at hand I fail to see it will make any practical difference if the Marshall is removed from his House for the duration of the term - for if he is aware that he shall rejoin that House at the end of the term then he is as bound to it and its long term interests as he was before he took up the position.
Your proposal is ill conceived and I shall not second it, nor will I vote in favour of it, should it find a pair of seconders, unless you remove point (4) altogether.
Theodericus sighs.
"You are the one who keep hobbling on about Jens Herden. Let me state this categorically: I. Do. Not. Care. About. It! As far as I'm concerned, the quabble between us is settled. I am fine with him becoming Reichmarschall. If I was not, I would have challenged him for that position, and not gone for being Spymaster instead. My proposal has absolutely nothing to do with him.
I am flabbergasted that you keep on missing the point, or pretending that you miss the point, regarding the client-patron relationship. The point is that the Reichmarschall is supposed to be impartial, and any conflict of interest must thus be eliminated as far as possible. Since we can't remove all this to a perfect degree, we must settle with removing as much of it as we can, and that includes removing him from the client-patron system, at the least for the time being. I personally thought that it would be going too far to permanently remove him from his Duchy, but if you would prefer that, why not propose it?
From what you have said, with your pitiful excuses to reject my proposal, it would seem to me like your only intent in creating this Reichmarschall army was to give yourself a new army, without having to pay for it out of your own pocket. You don't want it to be run in an impartial manner, you want it to be run in your favour!"
Elberhard raises an eyebrow at the Margrave's antics.
Me? I am just a servant of the Empire. With the diet starting to come to a close I decided that I would step in where it seemed noone else would. As a mere noble of the Reich I imagine I have no chance against one so "illustrious" as the Margrave, but if nothing else my candidacy can serve as a testament to the prestige of the Margrave with his inevitable win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Kaiser Heinrich:
I second CA 4.1c, and House Edicts 4.4 and 4.5.
I too will second edicts 4.4 and 4.5, but unless article 3 of charter 4.1c is modified, I cannot support it. I believe it is of great importance that the marshal can be deployed by the diet to capture settlements if needed. Without this ability, the position is crippled and will be of no help in a general offensive. Also, as I'm sure you know, a good offense is often the best defense.
Kaiser Heinrich:
If Article 3 is modified, I shall withdraw my support. The entire point of the Prinz's and Margrave's reformation efforts is so the Marshal will head an army that is purely for defensive purposes. Call me crazy, but I have a hunch that unless its purpose is mandated by the Charter, a defensive army will eventually make the transition to the offensive.
That is why any offensive action must be at the direction of the diet, as passed by a majority vote. The provision simply ensures that if needed the marshal's army can be sued for offensive purposes, it does not mean the marshal may simply attack when he desires.
Kaiser Heinrich:
Herden, I know how this works. If there is a resource to be used, then people will use it. Unless we make it a part of the Charter that the Reichsmarschall's army is explicitly to be used as a defensive force unless otherwise authorized beforehand by the Diet, it will over time simply become another offensive army, leaving the interior once again unsecured.
The Prinz once more.
I believe the Kaiser and the Count are of one mind and would support the legislation were point (3) worded thus:
However, I should like to hear the Kaiser's perspective on the proposed point (4). Does he believe it is in the interests of the Reich to sever the ties of loyalty between vassals and their lords?Quote:
(3) The Reichmarshall's army has two priorities, in order of importance:
a) To defend the Reich's current possessions
b) To reclaim lost settlements
As such, the Reichmarshall's army cannot be used to conquer new territory, unless expressively authorized to do so by the Diet. This, however, cannot surpass priority a) or b).
Err, that is what I was saying...
(OOC: and... I just realized I was looking at the first version of it and the quoted ones in fact contained revisions, so basically never mind on everything I have just said.)
Kaiser Heinrich:
As for Point 4, I am more in favor of the arrangement being more of a gentlemen's agreement than anything else, as we are all honorable men of the Reich, but I suppose I could perhaps see how in the future when notions of chivalry and honor diminish that the legislation would be necessary. Therefore, my opinion on Point 4 is that I do not believe we need it now, but we may at some indeterminate point in in the future. Therefore, I believe it should stay in.
Leopold, to his father.
I am troubled by the word 'secede'as it seems to me to be an open invitation to insurrection.
I am in favour of the spirit of the Margrave's amendment but were I to support it there would have to be a revision to (4). Something like:
If this amendment or something like it were in place I would second the legislation myself and encourage my vassals to vote in favour, for I wholeheartedly support its objective.Quote:
(4) The Reichsmarschall shall, for the duration of his term, use his centrally funded resources and position for the benefit of the Reich as a whole and not in pursuit of the individual interests of his Duchy or any other.
Kaiser Heinrich:
Let it be known that if the Margrave once again amends his legislation to meet Leopold's request, I will automatically second it.
(OOC: tired, need nap.)
Theodericus der Bartige, rather bored and tired tone
"Fine. Here's the final draft.
I trust this will pass without any further objections. If you need me, I'll be in the nearest bar."Quote:
Charter Amendment 4.1c
Should Charter Amendment 4.1b pass, the following should be added to the Reichmarshall position:
Penalties:
(3) The Reichmarshall's army has two priorities, in order of importance:
(4) The Reichsmarschall shall use his centrally funded resources and position for the benefit of the Reich as a whole and not in pursuit of the individual interests of himself, anyone else, his Duchy or any other.a) To defend the Reich's current possessionsAs such, the Reichmarshall's army cannot be used to conquer new territory, unless expressively authorized to do so by the Diet. This, however, cannot surpass priority a) or b).
b) To reclaim lost settlements
Theodericus gathers up his papers, tips his head to the Kaiser, salutes Friedrich and then leaves the Diet.
I second Charter Amendment 4.1c and thank the Margrave for his mastery of the art of compromise.
Harold Merode, somewhat confused, enters the Diet.
"Mein, Kaiser, what is going on? Forgive me, but I fear I have not kept up with the times."
The Prinz.
Ah Herr Merode! May I applaud your impeccable sense of timing...good to see you here! Once you have your bearings you might begin by swearing the Imperial Oath so that you are able to vote.
Ernst of Melk rises to speak on behalf of the Prinz.
As a reward for his excellent service thus far, Prinz Leopold would like to elevate Elberhard von Essen to Count of Tyrol, granting him Innsbruck as his personal fiefdom until such a time as it ceases to form part of Osterreich, at which point he will be granted another territory.
Also, Herr Harold Merode has decided to leave Osterreich and join the House of Brandenburg-Bohemia. We wish him well in his future employ.
Friedrich von Eisler motions to speak.
"As we now have the Reichmarschall position expanded and publicly financed, we need to clear up the bureaucracy behind it. For obvious reasons we must keep a separate account of how much money is for the Reichmarschall, so that none of it gets lost in someone's personal pockets, by accident or worse. We should also require the Reichmarschall to clearly inform us when and on what he spends it on, and on the status of his army. This is party for the reason of transparency itself - we have a right to know what our money is being spent on - but also to ease the transition between one Reichmarschall to the man who replaces him. Otherwise there might be misunderstandings or even disputes about which soldiers belong to the Reichmarschall's army, financed by the taxes, and which are the personal belongings of the man who served that position, financed by his own money.
I would also like to remind Count Jens Herden that he is serving as Reichmarschall now. His responsibility is first and foremost to create and to command the Reichmarschall army, so while he can - at present - go off on his own adventures, he may only do so as long as it doesn't interfere with his responsibilities. No taxpayer money can be used to aid the conquering of any province at the present either. If he isn't done with his campaign before the Reichmarschall army is battle-ready, he must abort it, for the Reichmarschall's army must always be ready to move out, and it cannot do so without its commander.
I hope this is recieved in the friendly spirit it was intended; I have no doubt that the Reichmarschall will be strictly professional in his duties. In conclusion, I, on behalf of my master, Margrave Theodericus der Bartige, and the Margravate of Brandenburg-Bohemia, wish the Count the best of luck in all his endeavours - including capturing Ragusa. "
Friedrich von Eisel tilts his head and is about to sit down when he quickly stands up again.
"Apologies, for I almost forgot: Margrave Theodericus der Bartige has decided that if the Osterreich still wants cavalry from Magdeburg, he in his grace has decided to allow Count Jens Herden to use them as his own. The Margrave still wish to retain the right to recall his cavalry, though."
About to sit down again, he suddenly changes his mind.
"Oh, and I don't want this to be misunderstood as an attempt to assure anyone of the well-meaning behind what I first said about the Count. The two things are wholly seperate and independent of each other. I wish now I had said this before I said anything else. That is all."
He once again nods his head and sits down, this time finished for sure.
Indeed, the army is my true problem at this point. I have some men with me on loan from the Prinz, as well as a few that belong to my countship, but at present there is no army of the Riechsmarshal. I hope that, with the approval of this council, I may capture Ragusa and use it to build up a suitable army. I will of course do this as quickly as possible, but if necessary I can retreat towards our heartlands now and attempt to raise some mercenary forces, but I would prefer not to.
Jens Herden, having been gone for a couple of weeks, re-enters the courtroom looking harried
greetings my fellows. As I hope you know, as the Reichsmarshall I am dedicated to protecting the lands of the Reich, but without an army there is little I can do. I have been working to amend this problem but will need your co-operation. I have scoured the training grounds all over the Reich personally to find where new troops might be trained to form a new army of the Reichsmarshall. As these facilities fall under your respective jurisdictions, I request permission to use them to train troops. The treasury of the Reichsmarshall shall cover all expenses for training and maintaining these troops. I have composed a list organized by city...
Herden unfurls a scroll he has been carrying
Innsbruck
2 units of sergeant spearmen, 860 florins1 unit of mounted sergeants, 460 florins
Vienna
1 unit of spear militia, 320 florins
Budapest
1 unit of spear militia, 320 florins
Prague
1 unit of spear militia, 320 florins
finished, Jens Herden puts away the scroll.
I shall of course give myself permission for the use of Budapest, and I ask that the rest of you do the same. I would also like to mention that I have transfered a unit of mercenary crossbowmen and a unit of spear militia from my personal army to the position to further increase its ability to protect all our lands. I ask that the rest of you also consider donating some troops if possible. I understand that the Margrave and the Prinz are currently using their armies, but I did come across 1 unit of peasant archers and 1 unit of mounted sergeants in Innsbruck that would compliment the Reichsmarshall's army nicely.
Finally, I request that the Prinz finance the building of dirt roads in Vienna. This will significantly increase the speed at which I may move to defend threatened areas of the Reich.
The Prinz gives his consent to the recruitment of troops for the Marschall's army at Wien. The Count of Tyrol will need to decide regarding Innsbruck. As to the matter of roads this will be considered after the battle at Genoa.
You can recruit in Innsbruck
Excellent, have you decided about those troops currently holding there? Or do you intend to use them yourself which is certainly understandable.
I simply await the word of the owner of Prague, the Margrave correct?
oOC:Those troops already at Innsbruck are mine and I'll most likely be using them, tbd once I know the results of the big game
Kaiser Heinrich:
I see we have some administrative issues that need to be taken care of due to the Zirn matter among other things. Therefore, I am calling an Emergency Session of the Diet, effective immediately.
I will be issuing statements of my own sometime within the next day. Right now my foreign advisors have informed me that a particularly brutal Caliph east of Anatolia has been slain and I need to do leader-ly things with this information.
Friedrich von Eisler:
"I apologize for any inconvenience, but in the chaos that has ensued from the whole Milan drama, I would like to have some things cleared up, specifically in regards to the position of Reichmarschall. May I ask the current one, Jens Herden, to give a full account of the office's situation, including how much money it has and how many men are currently serving under it. For the sake of bureaucracy and transparency, I would suggest that the Reichmarschall makes regular updates on any changes, so that we all may know what our money is being spent upon."
Ahem,
In my capacity as Reichsmarshall I have recruited one unit of spear militia (320) in Budapest with the permission of myself,
I have also recruited two units of sergeant spear men (860) and one unit of mounted sergeants (460) in Innsbruck, and 1 unit of spear militia (320) in Vienna
and leaving the Reichsmarchall's funds at 1019.
I then re-sieved 1131 florins from von Essen's heroic capture of Zagreb, bringing the total to 2150.
In my capacity as Count of Budapest I have trained one unit of town militia at Budapest (310) and hired one unit of mercenary crossbowmen (860). This leaves his funds at 1519.
I have also donated 1 unit of mercenary crossbowmen and 1 unit of spear militia to the army of the Reichsmarshall and consolidated the troops of both positions in the city of Budapest.
I encourage anyone else who has spare troops to donate them as well. Once this army has regrouped I intend to stay watchful on the mid-East border where most of our enemies seem to be attacking from at this time.
The Reichsmarshall nods approvingly as he examines a scroll of parchment.
It seems my last round of recruiting has gone very well, troops from all over the Reich are taking up arms and will soon be ready to crush the Reichs enemies. However, I have need of still more troops.
The Reichsmarshall unfurls another scroll and tosses it down onto the table.
With your permission
Budapest
Spear Militia (320)
permission granted
Vienna
Spear Militia (320)
permission pending
Innsruck
Sergeant Spearmen (430)
Peasant Archers (200)
Mounted Sergeants (460)
permission pending
I would also like to sponsor the building of dirt roads (500) in Vienna. This will make movement for my armies much easily, furthering my ability to protect the Reich.
This would leave my total funds at 1119.
I also have a special request as Count of Budapest. I would request that the tribute I am paying to my lord the Prinz be lowered slightly. I am currently losing money every turn and cannot take any action for fear of bankruptcy.
Theodericus coughs.
"The Reichmarschall's funds cannot be used to sponsor the building of any infrastructure. It's for the army and nothing else. If you wish to use your own money to do it, that's fine, but if that's what you meant you should be more clear about it."
I thought perhaps an exception could be made for the building of roads as this greatly aids the army. However, if this is unacceptable I will use funds from my personal holdings.
"It is unacceptable. My money is not to be used to improve someone else's property."
Kaiser Heinrich:
Good Electors,
I believe that it is time that Austria and Brandenburg received some sister Duchies. Right now, I currently have direct control over five provinces: Frankfurt, Antwerp, Nuremburg, Genoa, and Milan. Frankfurt of course will stay in my possession, however, the other four provinces are up for grabs. Generally, I am looking to restart two of the lost Duchies, Bavaria being one of them. Flanders is looking like the other one at the moment as all Swabian lands are currently lost to us.
I am currently accepting public applications in this Diet. The only two men ineligible for these new positions are the Prinz and the Margrave, for obvious reasons. You will be judged based on your clear and concise outlining of the plan for your Duchy and how your actions as Duke will benefit the Reich as a whole and not just your new House.
Von Essen steps into the Diet hall. In contrast to his last appearance here his armor is covered with dirt and scratched, its upkeep untended to. Dark circles under his eyes attest to his lack of sleep lately. Slowly Elberhard walks towards the Emperor's throne, kneeling upon reaching it and holding out his sword towards his leige.
"My Emperor. Due to my gross incompetence in the Battle for Zagreb a noble defender of the Reich has fallen. Your servant Von Magdeburg perished while I allowed myself to stray from my duties as a leader of an army to the Reich.
This crime is unforgivable, but I know that the Empire's need for soldiers them does not allow me to face the justice I am actually due. Therefore I offer my sword and fortune to you to do with as you see fit in defense of the realm. Also henceforth I will accept no land or titles beyond the humble one of knight. My only request, unworthy as I am to make it, is the chance to spill the blood of your enemies."
The Prinz frowns.
Von Essen you have nothing to feel ashamed of. Von Magdeburg fought bravely and fell in the service of Reich and Duchy as may we all one day, God Willing.
I urge you to reconsider once the emotions of the situation have receded. Under your command the Reich has gained the city of Zagreb from the hated Magyar - you should feel proud of your achievement for which I applaud you.
The Reich has need of men of your quality at all levels, but particularly in the higher ranks of the nobility which have been cruelly stripped of our finest.
I must resubmit me request to raise troops for the army of the Reichsmarshall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer
The Prinz stands to petition his father.
Mein Kaiser, I humbly submit that the city of Zagreb be added to the Duchy of Osterreich in recognition of our successes against the Magyar and our ancient territorial claim on their lands.
He bows before sitting to await the response.
Margrave Theodericus der Bartige:
"Oh yes, you 'humbly submit' that Zagreb should be added to the Osterreich, like you 'humbly submitted' that Budapest should be added to the Osterreich, or how you 'humbly submitted' that Innsbruck should be added to the Osterreich, or how you 'humbly submitted' that Nuremburg should be added to the Osterreich... tell me, is there any city in the Reich, or indeed the world, that you wouldn't be humble enough to submit to be added to the Osterreich?"
He turns towards Jens Herden.
"And all the while the Reichmarschall is granting himself more and more authority, acting like the mere asking for permission is the same as him receiving it. Is this sort of arrogance normal behaviour in the Osterreich? I will leave it to the actual owners of the facilities in question to decide whether they want to impeach him for it, but if they do, I shall certainly support it. If this is tried anywhere in Brandenburg-Bohemia, I assure you that this is exactly what I would do.
Until a formal charge is made, though, I request that the Reichmarschall recognizes that it is in the north that he is needed, not in the south, and fulfills his duty by marching up here and providing the defence that his army was created for, instead of lolling about in the south. We're not paying this tax for your looks, so forget the suntan and do your job."
I would not need to assume this authority if the good owners of those lands would be so kind as to reply to my requests. I have taken the liberty of ordering their recruitment as this is a time of crisis for the Reich. We are being attacked by hostile forces on all fronts and in grave need of new troops.
As to your other comments, I am certainly not lolling around in the South. I have in fact just ridden ahead of my main army which is currently marching to the capitol to fight off the Pollocks. This army will be bolstered by these new troops as it marches. Once that threat is dealt with, I shall likely head back to the South East as the Hungarians are amassing new armies and the Sultan of the East can only be a short time from attacking us. You seem to have a large force of soldiers in the north, far larger than any such troops in the South, and are such a superb commander that surely you can take on any small force attacking your lands, as I hear you have so recently done.
Ah, it seems the good Prinz has indeed taken heed of my request and given his permission, but I must ask that von Essen, despite his recent trauma, give the rights for recruitment in Innsbruck.
"Oh, I see, you think them not having answered you gives you the right to sidestep the law and do whatever you want. So what's next? If someone denies you his facilities, will you take them by force, 'because if he had given you his permission, you wouldn't have had to use violence'?"
The Prinz, ignoring the dispute between the Margrave and the Count.
The good Margrave may not be aware that the cities of Innsbruck and Nuremburg are earmarked for inclusion in the new Duchy of Bavaria. I will be releasing my claim on these cities once the Duchy is established and once, in the case of Innsbruck, we have secured alternative and equivalent recruitment facilities in the form of Ragusa, currently held by the Magyar but our next planned conquest.
Similarly the city of Milan, once I have recaptured it from our Italian foe, will I believe form part of the new Duchy.
This will leave Osterreich (Kaiser willing of course) with Wien, Budapest, Zagreb and Ragusa. Not unreasonable given our selfless defence of lands not our own and our series of victories against our common foes.
Perhaps the Margrave should look to his own conquests rather than churlishly disputing the claims of others.
In a time of crisis action is more important than procedure. This was a necessary action if the Reichsmarshall is to have an army with which to defend our lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking