Turkish Spring ?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Sorry Hussie but that's just laughable. You need more Nigel Farage explaining things to you.

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Nigel Farage in some aspects is correct, he knows where a lot of the weaknesses are within the EU. However, he is also part of the club which would oppose European reform due to how it would affect the balance of power, and actively voices just to leave. For the negatives of the European Union, there are quite a number of very strong positives. I believe Reform can happen within the Union to address and fix the issues, opposed to jumping ship at the merest sight of an Iceberg.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Nigel Farage in some aspects is correct, he knows where a lot of the weaknesses are within the EU. However, he is also part of the club which would oppose European reform due to how it would affect the balance of power, and actively voices just to leave. For the negatives of the European Union, there are quite a number of very strong positives. I believe Reform can happen within the Union to address and fix the issues, opposed to jumping ship at the merest sight of an Iceberg.

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I agree with him. I want the Netherlands to leave as well. The Netherlands doesn't need the EU for effective trading, small as we may be the EU needs us more than vica versa as we are the only ones that can provide the recources needed through our waterways to provide the German industry with. No Netherlands means no Germany. No Germany means no EU. It's about time we use what we got. We don't have to leave altogether but we can certainly stop that Flemmish ferret that looks an owl that just dropped from his tree, his Portugese waitor and a German booksalesman. Pro-EU parties are at an all time low, and we are in general really fed up with it. So are the Finnish by the way, that other AAA country, they are also beyond fed-up paying for garlic-countries they will probably blow everything up sooner.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

we are the only ones that can provide the recources needed through our waterways to provide the German industry with. No Netherlands means no Germany.

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Que? Delusions of grandeur a bit?

And, Hussar is correct. No country can join EU unless every member state agree.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Nigel Farage in some aspects is correct, he knows where a lot of the weaknesses are within the EU. However, he is also part of the club which would oppose European reform due to how it would affect the balance of power, and actively voices just to leave. For the negatives of the European Union, there are quite a number of very strong positives. I believe Reform can happen within the Union to address and fix the issues, opposed to jumping ship at the merest sight of an Iceberg.

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It has taken 20 years to reform the Common Fisheries policy to prevent the extinction of North Sea Cod. This is the fault of Mediterranean Countries, who are already fished out, refusing to give ground. The CAP still requires reform.

In addition to the vested interests, you have the EU technocrats who demand "Ever Deeper Union" - the Myth that the single currency is a permanent and irrevocable development is a case in point - that statement runs counter to economic sense and historical fact. The abject refusal to EVER rescind a treaty provision or disband an agency have resulted in decades of trying to paper over structural problems - instead of abolishing institutions and replacing them (as happens at a national level) the EU attempts to deal with structural problems by adding another layer of control.

Farage is fundamental correct - the EU cannot be reformed, because it refuses to be reformed.

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Farage is fundamental correct - the EU cannot be reformed, because it refuses to be reformed.

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The EU can not be dismantled, because it refuses to dismantle itself.

:sneaky:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Farage is fundamental correct - the EU cannot be reformed, because it refuses to be reformed.

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This is pure bollox, but we should probably continue this line of discussion in the appropriate thread.

“Farage is fundamental correct”: The man so patriotic that he opened a bank account in a Fiscal Paradise to avoid paying taxes to the Country he loves so much?:laugh4:
Like Le Pen in France (who opened a Swiss Bank Account few years ago), these so call patriots just love themselves and are the good faithful dog guards of the capitalist system. They come when needed and thanks to the media they rescue the Bi-party system (parties that have the same policies, just names change) that gave the crowd the illusion of choice. Because it is becoming more and more obvious, most of the voters don’t go to vote any more.
That is the opened door to more unrest, violence and confrontation when the need and voices of the population are ignored for the sake of saving the privileges of the few at the top.
It is like a C4 charge. Stable until the detonator ignites the charge. The problem is no body know what will be the spark: trees cutting like in Turkey, suicide by fire like in Tunisia, price of bus tickets like in Portugal?

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Que? Delusions of grandeur a bit?

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Simply how it is, only Rotterdam can handle the really big ships. If we leave the EU that doesn't change.

Anyone have good current information on this?
It seems to have disappeared from from the news, and I doubt it has been resolved. Eerie I call it...

Can you believe it! The politicians of Turkey are blaming the protests on Turkish Jews.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9610L520130702

Ouch!
From the "If you can't think of anything intelligent to say" school of political discourse

Hope LEN is doing well.

Nothing here

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Originally Posted by Brenus

“Farage is fundamental correct”: The man so patriotic that he opened a bank account in a Fiscal Paradise to avoid paying taxes to the Country he loves so much?:laugh4:
Like Le Pen in France (who opened a Swiss Bank Account few years ago), these so call patriots just love themselves and are the good faithful dog guards of the capitalist system. They come when needed and thanks to the media they rescue the Bi-party system (parties that have the same policies, just names change) that gave the crowd the illusion of choice. Because it is becoming more and more obvious, most of the voters don’t go to vote any more.
That is the opened door to more unrest, violence and confrontation when the need and voices of the population are ignored for the sake of saving the privileges of the few at the top.
It is like a C4 charge. Stable until the detonator ignites the charge. The problem is no body know what will be the spark: trees cutting like in Turkey, suicide by fire like in Tunisia, price of bus tickets like in Portugal?

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I've said before that I don't think UKIP should be allowed into Office.

That doesn't make Farage's analysis of the problem wrong.

Your argument is an ad hominem, which is usually deployed when a debator cannot attack the Point and so attacks the Man.

“Your argument is an ad hominem, which is usually deployed when a debator cannot attack the Point and so attacks the Man.” Oh. So when somebody says something and does something else, you consider he’s got a point. I consider that his actions talk for him, so, in this case prove him wrong. Dishonesty can’t be a legitimate basis for political point.
By the way, don’t use tactic you give the impression to denounce~D
Now, for the EU, Farage is wrong, so he doesn’t have a point. Like all institutions it can be change. I am part of the few countries that voted against the European Constitution and then it was imposed by my government. So, EU can change. For the worst for now, but it did change.

Protest continues:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...756523394.html

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Originally Posted by Brenus

“Your argument is an ad hominem, which is usually deployed when a debator cannot attack the Point and so attacks the Man.” Oh. So when somebody says something and does something else, you consider he’s got a point. I consider that his actions talk for him, so, in this case prove him wrong. Dishonesty can’t be a legitimate basis for political point.
By the way, don’t use tactic you give the impression to denounce~D
Now, for the EU, Farage is wrong, so he doesn’t have a point. Like all institutions it can be change. I am part of the few countries that voted against the European Constitution and then it was imposed by my government. So, EU can change. For the worst for now, but it did change.

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I was talking about the structure of the EU - not domestic taxes. Ergo, Farage's tax avoidance is irrelevant and an ad hominem.

Farage has been consistently ahead of the curve in predicting the collapse of the peripheral EU economies, his sequence of events and times have been spookily accurate. Either he understands the flaws in the EU economic arrangement - or he's orchestrating the collapse.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Either he understands the flaws in the EU economic arrangement - or he's orchestrating the collapse.

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He might not be personally orchestrating the collapse, but his sort of behaviour has contributed to the crisis. The Bankers of course did their bit, but in the Southern European countries, a big part of their problem has been people dodging taxes.

Farage is a bit hyped though isnt he, I mean they don't a presence in parliment except in the heads of nervous Tories.

Even that byelection result lately if extrapolated nation wide probably wouldnt result in a single seat

Lennie or Mouzi explain this for me please, Turkey sits proudly on the first place when it comes to patrol-prices. I don't buy it, and most certainly don't understand it. No way it can behigher than in compact countries like Norway and the Neds, who are two and tree

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

He might not be personally orchestrating the collapse, but his sort of behaviour has contributed to the crisis. The Bankers of course did their bit, but in the Southern European countries, a big part of their problem has been people dodging taxes.

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From what I understand, he briefly flirted with avoidance for one tax year over a decade ago - having either realised that it was immoral or politically untenable he cancelled the arrangement.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Lennie or Mouzi explain this for me please, Turkey sits proudly on the first place when it comes to patrol-prices. I don't buy it, and most certainly don't understand it. No way it can behigher than in compact countries like Norway and the Neds, who are two and tree

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Taxation is as old as money ?

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

Taxation is as old as money ?

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Even older than money!

Seriously this bloody dictator needs to go. Arresting people for their tweeter messages? having your loyal dogs attack people in the street with machetes? arresting doctors because they were tending to the wounded protestors? using relegion as a shield and a means of provocation? Enough is enough Turkey wont be another Iran (no offence) people will not abonden the secular regime and the revolutions of Ataturk and the republic. So I say Viva La Republic, To Hell With the Tyrants!!!

His recent attempts at provocating his "civil" supporters gave fruit. The local shopkeepers around where protests are held grab their bats and sticks to beat protesters. Recently RTE called for the neighbors who are disturbed from the noise that protesters at home do by clinging pots and pans to inform police about that specific neighbor - in other words snitching about them.

By the way oil is 5 TL as of now and both electricity and natural gas have been subject to increase in their prices.

He, whose government's sole pillar they call "economical success" was the hot cash flow through aggressive privatization of state properties and services and the sustaining of such flow via creation of a debt system where getting yourself into credits and credit cards was never so easy -hence the evergrowing banks and their unwavering support for the economical route-, now calls for discarding those "credit cards et cetera". Mister, whole nation is under a blanket of debt which you have encouraged in the first place.

RTE never seemed so clueless and desperate. Although I despise the guy, overall, I don't like the situation - some economic crisis is banging at the door.

Thank you for the update LEN :yes:

Freedom through finance! This always ends well :dizzy2:

Scary stuff. Erdogan is a very dangerous man.

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

His recent attempts at provocating his "civil" supporters gave fruit. The local shopkeepers around where protests are held grab their bats and sticks to beat protesters. Recently RTE called for the neighbors who are disturbed from the noise that protesters at home do by clinging pots and pans to inform police about that specific neighbor - in other words snitching about them.

By the way oil is 5 TL as of now and both electricity and natural gas have been subject to increase in their prices.

He, whose government's sole pillar they call "economical success" was the hot cash flow through aggressive privatization of state properties and services and the sustaining of such flow via creation of a debt system where getting yourself into credits and credit cards was never so easy -hence the evergrowing banks and their unwavering support for the economical route-, now calls for discarding those "credit cards et cetera". Mister, whole nation is under a blanket of debt which you have encouraged in the first place.

RTE never seemed so clueless and desperate. Although I despise the guy, overall, I don't like the situation - some economic crisis is banging at the door.

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Well - the dubious upside is that if your economy tanks your government might change.

The downside is that Erodgen is doing the old Tyrant shtick of creating civil strife to shield his miss-management of the economy. This whole thing is really starting to look manufactured.

LOL Turkish girlfriend of my sister doesn't understand Ramadan.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps356a5a3a.jpg

Don't tell her yet but I am going to marry her one day

"Whoever the nation points to through ballot box, everybody has to submit to them"

Latest from RTE. And he is complaining about what's going on in Egypt every other day with "democracy"-oriented speeches.

Ex-army chief given life for plot to overthrow Erdogan

As much as Turkey's military should be reigned in, I'm not sure it is happening in the right way or for the right reasons.

More one party politics!

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Ex-army chief given life for plot to overthrow Erdogan

As much as Turkey's military should be reigned in, I'm not sure it is happening in the right way or for the right reasons.

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Also journalists, writers, academics, 275 total, undermining the state and all that. Not all for life though. Leftists and europhiles were appalled, but maybe mr Wilders was right, and Erdogan is, in fact, a total freak

Ah, these protesters are good and well educated people who only react against the RTE governmentns, but they are too foolish to understand that they still live in Middle East.

10 years ago, they support RTE for the name of democracy, and celebrated the arrestment of the generals who intervenes with politics, as "a step to democracy".

They made fun with people say "There is a danger that Turkiye can become like Iran."
They laughed to people who say "There is a danger that Kurdish people will divide the land".
They accused the generals as "You are lying about the true intensions of Over-Islamics and Kurds, because you want to hold the power and money for your own good. If we give Over-Islamics and Kurds freedom and rights, they will even clean the terrorists of their own themselves."

Yea, well, there you have it. Over-Islamics are banning alcoholic drinks day by day. They putting their own men to all parts of the government. Kurds openy support Pkk terrorists, calls it as their own army.

All of these is th fault of the Gezi Protesters. The Gezi protesters are the people who forgot that they are living in middle east, the lands that culturally attached to the brute force.

I thought this was an interesting and depressing peice: http://m.gulfnews.com/opinion/how-tu...ends-1.1223309


While Ankara’s foreign policy struggles in the Middle East may have been inevitable, its isolation elsewhere seems self-inflicted