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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brenus
"So much pathos! When I had expessed a similar one two years ago I was blamed as being too emotionally invested. Perhaps you suggest there should be another march which will show to the world that the French are... what will it show, by the way, and what has the CH one shown?" :laugh4: I was waiting for this... I am not disappointed.:2thumbsup:
If you can't find the answer, sorry, I can't fill your emptiness.
I have found the answer, but you may not like it.
Two years ago I could have posted videos and pictures of thousands of weeping people on Maidan holding candles in their hands and coffins with the fallen on their shoulders. I could have played you the heart-rending song "A duckling is floating" which has turned into a dirge since then and I can't hear it without tears starting in my eyes. But I didn't, knowing the reaction of the likes of you who would have said (as they did when I expressed my emotions): "Those are Nazis. Serve them right" and you pronounced my diagnosis - nationalistic blindness. Well, if I have one, then now I must say we are sharing the same malady.
You speak about France as a shining beacon of democracy, the last stronghold, the Minas Tirith of our times, that protects Franternite, Liberte and yadda-yadda and those are the only reasons the terrorists who are jealous in their hatred of those tenets aimed their venom at it.
This nationalistic babble doesn't give an answer to one simple question: why France? Is democracy worse in Austria or Finland? Are Fraternite and Liberte upheld less in Denmark, Lichtenstein, Great Britain or the Netherlands? If not, then why it happened in France?
The answer is the fact that you referred to: France has the largest Muslim population in Europe. France nurtured a whole generation of citizens who are easily swayed by radicals and are ready to kill THEIR COMPATRIOTS for some mythical ideas. But you want to sell us the picture of France that may have been true 50 years ago and is securely embedded into your consciousness (which you deem so immune to the influence of propaganda)? Wake up, that France is no more. Something is rotten, and this time not in the kingdom of Denmark.
But we didn't play a favorite game of yours: who benefits.
1. ISIS? Well, the atmosphere of panic and fear they wanted to cause will soon wear out, so it will only turn to their undoing and people will start to hate them more. But, frankly, when did they care? They will recklessly go on doing what they are, disregarding any strategies and adversaries.
2. Assad (backed by Russia)? Definitely yes. It is one more chance for him to say: "Hey, you do now know what ISIS is, don'tcha? And who is fighting it? Me! So stop discussing shortcomings of my regime and prop me up as Russia is doing".
3. Le Pen (financed by Russia)? Evidently yes. One more chance for her to say: "I told you so! Elect me and you will have no such nonsense from the filthy immigrants any more."
4. Putin (the president of Russia)? Three times yes. One more chance for him to say: "Forget the Crimea and Ukraine. Remember the glorious time of WWII when our grandfathers fought the Great Evil together. Back then the West wasn't too scrupulous about the Baltic states or Poland. Let's draw our swords together against the new scourge of our time and, please, lift off the sanctions, will ya?"
So it seems that the ultimate beneficiary is Putin. But what help can he render France and whole Europe, forsooth, when the latter have to fight the evil first of all WITHIN their domains where the seeds of terrorism seem to have taken roots and will bear fruit irrespective of the fact the motherplant is crushed elsewhere?
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Originally Posted by
lars573
I agree that Europe has a problem with integration. But I wouldn't hold up North America as some kind of shining example. Our integration of immigrants works on a multi-generational schedule.
The USA's history has been the one of immigration, so its kind of inborn to have a knack in assimilating immigrants. But from the outset what those immigrants did was ousting the natives. Europe has a comparatively short history of admitting huge influxes of immigrants and the natives of Europe want anything but get ousted, so different purposes of Europe and the USA in regards to immigrants are obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
When was the last time France had an Englishman for Prime Minister?
:verycool:
Henry V?
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
You want to blame someone for the rise of militant Islam? Blame it on the US.
Blame it on Jimmy Carter. Carter wanted to replace the Shah of Iran. That worked well for him, huh? All those smart people couldn’t see that coming?
Then with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Carter sponsored and helped to give a religious focus to the mujahideen. Later it became the Taliban.
The early PLO and groups opposed to Israel were secular in nature but when a more effective weapon comes along, well.
America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where their political ineptitude could not have been better designed to create unrest and opposition.
We can skip over the Arab Spring, I mean no one could have dreamed religious fundamentalists would take over there, could they. But the Syrian uprising was also a part of that, openly supported by the US and calling for the ouster of that government with weapons and training provided to the rebels (only moderates of course).
Frustrated by public opposition to intervention in a Syrian Civil War, as well as strong Russian opposition, the US turned its attention to Ukraine, another brilliant piece of work. Then Surprise!, we have the appearance of IS. Bad Guys so evil they could be taken from a Hollywood script or a bad pulp novel.
Then, after years of war and a brief and ineffective American bombing campaign we suddenly have hundreds of thousands of refugees from most of the Islamic world (not just Syria) converging on Europe. But we are assured they are all peaceful and it is inhuman to turn them away. Of course for some reason no Islamic country will provide aid or shelter for them.
Then, this. Who could have predicted it. Paris of all places. Paris where Khomeini spent 14 years as a political exile, writing, developing his ideas, and teaching sharia law. Time Magazine’s 1979 Man of the Year.
How could French muslims ever have been radicalised.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fisherking
You want to blame someone for the rise of militant Islam? Blame it on the US.
Then we might as well blame Christopher Columbus since it was he who discovered America and thus triggered the chain of events that led to the Paris tragedy.
Instead my blame is on those who allowed and indeed supported the flow of cheap labor from Muslim countries to Europe and FAILED TO ASSIMILATE the newcomers.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gilrandir
Instead my blame is on those who allowed and indeed supported the flow of cheap labor from Muslim countries to Europe and FAILED TO ASSIMILATE the newcomers.
So you do in fact blame the victims of the atrocity for their own killings? Good man, nice to know.
There are two possible ways to react to this issue IMO. Taken at their extremes they are as follows:
1. Accept the odd atrocity because it is still better than sacrificing everything we are.
2. Machine gun the boats and start building the camps.
Which would you choose?
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fisherking
You want to blame someone for the rise of militant Islam? Blame it on the US.
Blame it on Jimmy Carter. Carter wanted to replace the Shah of Iran. That worked well for him, huh? All those smart people couldn’t see that coming?
Then with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Carter sponsored and helped to give a religious focus to the mujahideen. Later it became the Taliban.
The early PLO and groups opposed to Israel were secular in nature but when a more effective weapon comes along, well.
America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where their political ineptitude could not have been better designed to create unrest and opposition.
We can skip over the Arab Spring, I mean no one could have dreamed religious fundamentalists would take over there, could they. But the Syrian uprising was also a part of that, openly supported by the US and calling for the ouster of that government with weapons and training provided to the rebels (only moderates of course).
Frustrated by public opposition to intervention in a Syrian Civil War, as well as strong Russian opposition, the US turned its attention to Ukraine, another brilliant piece of work. Then Surprise!, we have the appearance of IS. Bad Guys so evil they could be taken from a Hollywood script or a bad pulp novel.
Then, after years of war and a brief and ineffective American bombing campaign we suddenly have hundreds of thousands of refugees from most of the Islamic world (not just Syria) converging on Europe. But we are assured they are all peaceful and it is inhuman to turn them away. Of course for some reason no Islamic country will provide aid or shelter for them.
Then, this. Who could have predicted it. Paris of all places. Paris where Khomeini spent 14 years as a political exile, writing, developing his ideas, and teaching sharia law. Time Magazine’s 1979 Man of the Year.
How could French muslims ever have been radicalised.
We can blame it on Carter, or any host of past actors in this unholy mess. But nothing of that sort will help solve the current problem, which goes beyond what people have done in the past. What's driving things now are what people are doing now. And the most immediate, most relevant driver of these idiots, in the UK at least, is the preachers radicalising the youth and the youths being radicalised. Cut that influence, by restricting who can preach here, and by keeping out those who've gone abroad to be radicalised, and you'll cut out a good chunk of radicalised homegrown terrorism. These idiots aren't the victims of western foreign policy abroad. They were raised here, with our tax money funding their upbringing.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slyspy
So you do in fact blame the victims of the atrocity for their own killings? Good man, nice to know.
There are two possible ways to react to this issue IMO. Taken at their extremes they are as follows:
1. Accept the odd atrocity because it is still better than sacrificing everything we are.
2. Machine gun the boats and start building the camps.
Which would you choose?
Until extremely recently we outsourced the second option to our "Allies of convenience" - Gadaffi, Saddam and Assad who between them kept the lid on all this. We mainly spouted hot air and did nothing.
More recently we decided to think with our hearts and got rid of the "baddies". And lo and behold! Thousands if not millions of poor, generally poorly skilled people with extremely different cultural norms view the worst slums over here as much better than what they have over there.
And rather like the rules of war that were chosen by those who were a long way from bettlefields, the rules dealing with immigrants was written by those who started with the assumption that people would have the decency to not come over here so we could be all nice and free.
The birth rates of Africa isn't going down fast enough so even with the net emigration, diseases and wars the population is still going up. Same in Iraq and possibly the same in Syria. Until the countries where these people originate is nice enough that the trip isn't worth the bother they'll keep coming until here is nasty enough not to want to come.
There is no influx into the GCC as they might well machine gun the lot of them; similarly there is the lack of enthusiasm for Russia, or Iran.
Wherever restrictions are placed there will be many people who die just the other side of it due to buildup of people. Now they are in Europe so that is such a moral problem since we now see it on TV. Best we find new puppets to keep this nasty business where it belongs - somewhere else.
~:smoking:
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rory_20_uk
Until extremely recently we outsourced the second option to our "Allies of convenience" - Gadaffi, Saddam and Assad who between them kept the lid on all this. We mainly spouted hot air and did nothing.
More recently we decided to think with our hearts and got rid of the "baddies". And lo and behold! Thousands if not millions of poor, generally poorly skilled people with extremely different cultural norms view the worst slums over here as much better than what they have over there.
And rather like the rules of war that were chosen by those who were a long way from bettlefields, the rules dealing with immigrants was written by those who started with the assumption that people would have the decency to not come over here so we could be all nice and free.
The birth rates of Africa isn't going down fast enough so even with the net emigration, diseases and wars the population is still going up. Same in Iraq and possibly the same in Syria. Until the countries where these people originate is nice enough that the trip isn't worth the bother they'll keep coming until here is nasty enough not to want to come.
There is no influx into the GCC as they might well machine gun the lot of them; similarly there is the lack of enthusiasm for Russia, or Iran.
Wherever restrictions are placed there will be many people who die just the other side of it due to buildup of people. Now they are in Europe so that is such a moral problem since we now see it on TV. Best we find new puppets to keep this nasty business where it belongs - somewhere else.
~:smoking:
I actually have some sympathy for those who find themselves displaced into Europe. It's the ones who were born and raised here yet turn against their home country whom I despise.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slyspy
So you do in fact blame the victims of the atrocity for their own killings? Good man, nice to know.
You misinterpret (intentionally or accidentally) what I said. Victims are the people of France, and they have my sympathy. My country has been having similar experience, it is just not that condensed, but rather protracted. Yet Ukraine too suffered from blown up buildings and railroads, peaceful demonstrations were attacked in the same way - and all of these far from the actual fighting zone. So by now we have learned well what is it to be under attack of terrorists (the ones that some people here stubbornly call rioting Russian-speaking populaces of oppressed Donbas). That is why my heart is with the victims and their relatives.
I blame powers-that-be and especially those that were responsible (in their time) for letting such a mass of immigrants in when it still could be prevented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slyspy
There are two possible ways to react to this issue IMO. Taken at their extremes they are as follows:
1. Accept the odd atrocity because it is still better than sacrificing everything we are.
2. Machine gun the boats and start building the camps.
Which would you choose?
Neither. But the atrocity is not likely to stay odd, it will happen more often once the terrorists see how easy it is. The boats with immigrants should be towed back to where they belong. Same with those who are now camped within the EU. Coast guard shouldn't allow any to land, and if they do - deport them back. Close the borders for any non-EUnians and fortify them against attempts to break through. If you choose to let the newcomers stay, make sure they are spread all over the country in far sundered places and not collected in one neighborhood all together. Own up to the fact that liberalism practised within the EU will not address the challenges from the outside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pannonian
Cut that influence, by restricting who can preach here, and by keeping out those who've gone abroad to be radicalised, and you'll cut out a good chunk of radicalised homegrown terrorism.
Do you think they will come for a permission to preach? Do you think (if they get this permission) they would disclose to you the real content of their messages? They will preach at secret meetings or at legal ones but in an unknown language, so you must be ready to start watching the Muslims (especially the youth) closely and introduce Arabic speaking censors at such meetings. That is if what you suggest is to be efficient.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
While i admit that any long term solution will be more then complicated to achieve in the area. For once we have an identified target, unlike with most terrorists.
ISIS has last today threatened that they are going to keep attacking everyone conducting air strikes against them including US and apparently these idiots think that they can scare the West with that.
If we have +30k of these lunatics in a geographically enclosed area. We should get rid of them as fast as possible, sending a message at the same time that attacking us will have its prize. After that we can work more on issues that are plaguing our own societies and try to get more lasting solutions to Middle East as well. I think joining ISIS will become lot less attractive, if it means mostly a certain death.
Hopefully the leaders of the world can set aside their differences concerning this and destroy these jihadist and not fall into apathy like many of us for example. Such apathy will just make these lunatics stronger.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gilrandir
Do you think they will come for a permission to preach? Do you think (if they get this permission) they would disclose to you the real content of their messages? They will preach at secret meetings or at legal ones but in an unknown language, so you must be ready to start watching the Muslims (especially the youth) closely and introduce Arabic speaking censors at such meetings. That is if what you suggest is to be efficient.
Yes, I think they will come to us asking for permission to preach, for they are foreigners with no right to abode here. Eg. the guy with a hook for a hand, who regularly preached hatred for Britain and the British. When he finally exhausted our patience and we deported him, he protested that he would be in danger back home, and only Britain offered a safe haven. Too bloody bad. We don't need his type here.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Originally Posted by
Papewaio
You are very wrong about France's integration. U.S. isn't the leader in this, yes better then Australia but that is because we are borderline apartheid until the sixties.
You are talking about single cases of high born men reaching high rank in the military. You are not talking about the mass integration of millions of people from a different cultural group. It's worth pointing out both of your Steve Jobs were steeped in French culture from the time they were born.
If you think this is proof of a successfully integrated society, we may just have to agree to disagree. The same goes for all this dick measuring of high up governmental positions. 1 or 2 success stories does not translate to mass integration.
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I tend to get mad at the mouthbreather crew on the right.
I can't seem to find the ones that aren't mouthbreathers on the internet, they go full retard anonymously.
Yea, you mad.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Polands new foreign minister has made an interesting suggestion:
https://www.rt.com/news/322289-polan...ee-army-syria/
He suggest that instead taking the able bodied young men seeking asylum as refugees. Why not turn them into a liberation army and ship them back?
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pannonian
I actually have some sympathy for those who find themselves displaced into Europe. It's the ones who were born and raised here yet turn against their home country whom I despise.
I think the opposite - one lot came here and made a choice. They want to be here, they should fit in and adapt to our rules and customs.
The others are descendants of those who did and therefore had no choice. Often they have been brought up to hate where they are and often have little if any ability to leave - now even trying in in essence a criminal offence and the last of them are still in Guantanamo as heading fromt he West so such countries means that they must be bad 'uns.
~:smoking:
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rory_20_uk
I think the opposite - one lot came here and made a choice. They want to be here, they should fit in and adapt to our rules and customs.
The others are descendants of those who did and therefore had no choice. Often they have been brought up to hate where they are and often have little if any ability to leave - now even trying in in essence a criminal offence and the last of them are still in Guantanamo as heading fromt he West so such countries means that they must be bad 'uns.
~:smoking:
I disagree with keeping them here when they have no wish to be here. Everyone, except perhaps for the hellholes they're headed to, is better off with them bothering off and never returning.
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...islamic-state/
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
They have a meal ticket, Their homeland is as good as gone to them.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
They have a meal ticket, Their homeland is as good as gone to them.
You sure seem to be the expert. For example my country evades about half of the asylum seekers. The problem is just we have already had seven times the number seeking asylum compared to last year, most from Syria and Iraq. Now, now what could be the reason for it??
But isnt it just lot more easy to lump all Europe as one blob. Sure makes things more easy. Can i ask you what do you think about the latin immigrants coming to US?
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
You sure seem to be the expert. For example my country evades about half of the asylum seekers. The problem is just we have already had seven times the number seeking asylum compared to last year, most from Syria and Iraq. Now, now what could be the reason for it??
The reason is Merkel opened the borders and tried to give them out to the member countries one by one. These wars didn't just start, you silly goose.
But let me indulge the Polish mans fantasy.
First, let us assume we have the funding for such an endeavor. Let us just assume we have an unlimited money pie. First you have to get these guys up to a level of physical conditioning. To do properly, that will take about three months. Then you have to train in certain specialties at minimum three months. That's six months, who knows where we will be in 6 months.
The EU would also have to cooperate on this. The EU can not cooperate on a damn thing and now general enthusiasm for it is waning. I simply don't see the member states coming together to do anything, try as Merkel might to make them.
So let's assume we have the money, the patience, and the cooperation. It's a PR nightmare. Some effeminate urban faux intellectual will eventually come out of *his/her/insert pronoun here* drug induced hedonism to pen a few acerbic paragraphs about how the west is simply using these poor refugees as cannon fodder for whatever imperial goal of the week we currently have.
Whose command would they be under? The EU? American? NATO? Russian? It can't be the arabs, because if it's one thing an arab led army can do, it's lose a conventional war in a truly spectacular fashion. The continued exsistance of Israel is a testament to that. Our great and wonderful investment would be squandered by general staffs that make WWII Italy look competent.
Other than that, great plan.
And of course, this is assuming you have volunteers. Which you wont because Germany>Syria, thats why these people crossed 26 peaceful countries to get there.
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But isnt it just lot more easy to lump all Europe as one blob. Sure makes things more easy. Can i ask you what do you think about the latin immigrants coming to US?
I have no problem with them, growing up in South Texas I am intimately familiar with them. On the whole they tend be hardworking folks who embrace America. I am proud to count them as citizens. Americas greatest strength lies in its immigrants eventually being brought in to in a anglophone cultural fold. I have never said anything different.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
The reason is Merkel opened the borders and tried to give them out to the member countries one by one. These wars didn't just start, you silly goose.
But let me indulge the Polish mans fantasy.
First, let us assume we have the funding for such an endeavor. Let us just assume we have an unlimited money pie. First you have to get these guys up to a level of physical conditioning. To do properly, that will take about three months. Then you have to train in certain specialties at minimum three months. That's six months, who knows where we will be in 6 months.
The EU would also have to cooperate on this. The EU can not cooperate on a damn thing and now general enthusiasm for the it is waning. I simply don't see the member states coming together to do anything, try as Merkel might to make them.
So let's assume we have the money, the patience, and the cooperation. It's a PR nightmare. Some effeminate urban faux intellectual will eventually come out of *his/her/insert pronoun here* drug induced hedonism to pen a few acerbic paragraphs about how the west is simply using these poor refugees as cannon fodder for whatever imperial goal of the week we currently have.
Whose command would they be under? The EU? American? NATO? Russian? It can't be the arabs, because if it's one thing an arab led army can do, it's lose a conventional war in a truly spectacular fashion. The continued exsistance of Israel is a testament to that. Our great and wonderful investment would be squandered by general staffs that make WWII Italy look competent.
Other than that, great plan.
And of course, this is assuming you have volunteers. Which you wont because Germany>Syria, thats why these people crossed 26 peaceful countries to get there.
I have no problem with them, growing up in South Texas I am intimately familiar with them. On the whole they tend be hardworking folks who embrace America. I am proud to count them as citizens. Americas greatest strength lies in its immigrants eventually being brought in to in a anglophone cultural fold. I have never said anything different.
Once again you create nice little scenarios in your small head, but the problem is that you lack any knowledge of the facts to base those scenarios.
Our Asylum seekers come mostly from Russia and Sweden, which allows them to pass against the Schengen deal. So it doesnt have anything to do with Merkel.
Secondly here in Northern and Eastern Europe we already have institutions for giving military training to large number of people annually, which we do. Unlike in your country where few hired service men protect the civilian population who could not protect their lunch box if their life depended on it.
The deploying surely is a problem as long as US keeps supporting Wahhabist countries like Saudi Arabia. I dont think they would like if some sort of peace would actually happen in Syria, unless of course under regime similar to Isis or Al Qaida.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
because if it's one thing an arab led army can do, it's lose a conventional war in a truly spectacular fashion. The continued exsistance of Israel is a testament to that.
This is a somewhat-mistaken preconception. Israel as a geographical and political entity cannot ever be destroyed by any one of its neighbors, and even in combination the level of coordination required given the geographic and institutional boundaries would give even NATO trouble - and this kind of concerted effort would become common knowledge to the world long before the time to strike could arrive. The Yom Kippur war is testament to just how difficult it is. Syria and Iraq vaguely timed military incursions around the same week, merely with the goal of (re)taking strategic terrain in the Golan Heights and the Sinai. Syria was defeated handily, but Egypt at least got as far as the other side of the Suez Canal. This, in other words, was the "debacle" that embarrassed Israel, raised tensions between blocs, and precipitated a land swap favorable to Egypt under the condition that they become a de-facto ally of Israel. That is the worst it ever got for Israel as an established state. The existence of Israel says as much about the Arab militaries as the neutrality of Switzerland says about the Nazi German military.
Finally, consider that Israel's neighbors find it useful as a buffer between each other. Indeed, the only way that Israel could be militarily overrun by anything in the region (given the further assumption that the US and EU have no involvement whatsoever) is if Turkey, Iran, and Egypt were to explicitly organize a Muslim coalition over an extended period of time, developing joint command, communication infrastructure, and logistical and intelligence harmonization such that they would be prepared to sustain massive casualties over many weeks to ensure that entrenched Israeli positions could be overcome with brute force, allowing the forces to break through and reach the major cities of the coast and the center. And then, of course, they have to accomplish a thing that modernity has not had the opportunity to witness the circumstances for: break apart the rump resistance in the hilly Galilee, including fanatical guerrillas and desperate militias.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
Once again you create nice little scenarios in your small head, but the problem is that you lack any knowledge of the facts to base those scenarios.
OK
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Our Asylum seekers come mostly from Russia and Sweden, which allows them to pass against the Schengen deal. So it doesnt have anything to do with Merkel.
Oh silly me, thinking when you reference asylum seekers in this thread, you mean those from the middle east. Is this supposed to be on of those gotcha moments? Do you really think you have backed me into some sort of corner?
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Secondly here in Northern and Eastern Europe we already have institutions for giving military training to large number of people annually, which we do. Unlike in your country where few hired service men protect the civilian population who could not protect their lunch box if their life depended on it.
Training still costs money and time.
If by few hired service men you mean all volunteer force pulled from the citizenry, then yes you are correct. All able bodied American men can be called up in a state of emergency anyway. The conscript armies of Europe rely on American muscle and have since NATO became a thing. I realize Finland is not part of NATO but a Russian attack on Finland (the only real reason Finland would mobilize ever) would effectively trigger the same response.
You also conveniently forget that Europeans are required to do this as a citizen. Are we going to force the refugees to fight for us now? How wonderfully 19th century.
If the best thing you can sling at me is "hurr durr Americans can't protect the food they love so much" than I think we are done discussing anything of merit. You can crawl back inside your bottle and hope your friends don't kill themselves because you people wont see the sun for the next six months.
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The deploying surely is a problem as long as US keeps supporting Wahhabist countries like Saudi Arabia. I dont think they would like if some sort of peace would actually happen in Syria, unless of course under regime similar to Isis or Al Qaida.
What are you talking about? Deploying is a problem because I don't want to see anymore Western lives lost but we can't trust this investment to a home grown general staff. The Saudis and a peaceful Syria have co-exsisted before, it can happen again.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Typo: In the previous post where it was stated, "Syria and Iraq" it should have read, "Syria and Egypt"
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
This is a somewhat-mistaken preconception. Israel as a geographical and political entity cannot ever be destroyed by any one of its neighbors, and even in combination the level of coordination required given the geographic and institutional boundaries would give even NATO trouble - and this kind of concerted effort would become common knowledge to the world long before the time to strike could arrive. The Yom Kippur war is testament to just how difficult it is. Syria and Iraq vaguely timed military incursions around the same week, merely with the goal of (re)taking strategic terrain in the Golan Heights and the Sinai. Syria was defeated handily, but Egypt at least got as far as the other side of the Suez Canal. This, in other words, was the "debacle" that embarrassed Israel, raised tensions between blocs, and precipitated a land swap favorable to Egypt under the condition that they become a de-facto ally of Israel. That is the worst it ever got for Israel as an established state. The existence of Israel says as much about the Arab militaries as the neutrality of Switzerland says about the Nazi German military.
The Germans never made any concerted effort to genocide the Swiss. It's worth remembering that the Swiss allowed their railways and banks to be used by the Germans. I don't like your analogy.
Quote:
Finally, consider that Israel's neighbors find it useful as a buffer between each other. Indeed, the only way that Israel could be militarily overrun by anything in the region (given the further assumption that the US and EU have no involvement whatsoever) is if Turkey, Iran, and Egypt were to explicitly organize a Muslim coalition over an extended period of time, developing joint command, communication infrastructure, and logistical and intelligence harmonization such that they would be prepared to sustain massive casualties over many weeks to ensure that entrenched Israeli positions could be overcome with brute force, allowing the forces to break through and reach the major cities of the coast and the center. And then, of course, they have to accomplish a thing that modernity has not had the opportunity to witness the circumstances for: break apart the rump resistance in the hilly Galilee, including fanatical guerrillas and desperate militias.
Isreal is only one example.
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
I also encourage you to pick up "Arabs at war" by Pollack, does a much better job than that shorthand article.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
OK
Oh silly me, thinking when you reference asylum seekers in this thread, you mean those from the middle east. Is this supposed to be on of those gotcha moments? Do you really think you have backed me into some sort of corner?
Training still costs money and time.
If by few hired service men you mean all volunteer force pulled from the citizenry, then yes you are correct. All able bodied American men can be called up in a state of emergency anyway. The conscript armies of Europe rely on American muscle and have since NATO became a thing. I realize Finland is not part of NATO but a Russian attack on Finland (the only real reason Finland would mobilize ever) would effectively trigger the same response.
You also conveniently forget that Europeans are required to do this as a citizen. Are we going to force the refugees to fight for us now? How wonderfully 19th century.
If the best thing you can sling at me is "hurr durr Americans can't protect the food they love so much" than I think we are done discussing anything of merit. You can crawl back inside your bottle and hope your friends don't kill themselves because you people wont see the sun for the next six months.
What are you talking about? Deploying is a problem because I don't want to see anymore Western lives lost but we can't trust this investment to a home grown general staff. The Saudis and a peaceful Syria have co-exsisted before, it can happen again.
You know upkeep in refugee centers cost also time and money. What i mean with deployment problem is that your Saudi friends are supporting the lunatics in Iraq and Syria first place and your politics are large reason this whole mess got started, while your twisted alliances are one key reason why it is so hard to dismantle.
But sorry i forget im talking with all knowing Texan here, who speaks with unlimited knowledge. This just shows that you have nothing else to add rather then trolling. I could tell you where to crawl, but you silly little man with your superiority complex aint worth it.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
You know upkeep in refugee centers cost also time and money.
And look how swimmingly thats going!
Quote:
What i mean with deployment problem is that your Saudi friends are supporting the lunatics in Iraq and Syria first place and your politics are large reason this whole mess got started, whil,e your twisted alliances are one key reason why it is so hard to dismantle.
Right but the fails to address how we train, feed, deploy, and lead this refugee army beyond "well we can't use the Saudis".
Quote:
But sorry i forget im talking with all knowing Texan here, who speaks with unlimited knowledge. This just shows that you have nothing else to add rather then trolling. I could tell you where to crawl, but you silly little man with your superiority complex aint worth it.
It's been nice talking to you.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
The Germans never made any concerted effort to genocide the Swiss.
Well, yes, that's the point.
Quote:
It's worth remembering that the Swiss allowed their railways and banks to be used by the Germans. I don't like your analogy.
Their biggest geographic advantage is also their biggest disadvantage. Even so, troops and war materiel did not pass along those railways in any quantity.
Israel is in an even better position, as where it is not surrounded by desert or mountain, it borders water.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Bush was a Texan too. He's probably getting paintings of himself done and smoking cigars with Bandar in the mansion instead of lifting a finger for this mess.
Texans gonna Texan.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
Justice and speaking your mind become harder under an autocracy which is seemingly the only thing that works in the region.
The last years have told us that authoritarianism there have no guarantees that it works. One by one such governments toppled over or faced open revolt, like falling dominoes.
Maybe North Korea is an example of a magic authoritarian brew that can remain stable over time, but I doubt it.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
The authoritarianism does work, as it always has in these sorts of regions, but the problem we see is that 'the tree of tyranny must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of regimes'.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
Bush was a Texan too. He's probably getting paintings of himself done and smoking cigars with Bandar in the mansion instead of lifting a finger for this mess.
Texans gonna Texan.
Bush is not a Texan :)
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
The authoritarianism does work, as it always has in these sorts of regions, but the problem we see is that 'the tree of tyranny must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of regimes'.
Which, as far as consistent stability is concerned, is the same as saying that these types of governments do not work.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
So lemme get this straight. French intelligence put algerian guy under surveillance in his trips to turkey and syria but didnt question him when he came back to paris?
misdirected hatred at its finest.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
It's been nice talking to you.
No, cant really say the same but educating nevertheless.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
No, cant really say the same but educating nevertheless.
The best teaching moments come when one realizes he was wrong. Glad you have grown.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
The best teaching moments come when one realizes he was wrong. Glad you have grown.
Maybe one day you will learn that lesson as well. Maybe then talking with you becomes nice.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
Maybe one day you will learn that lesson as well. Maybe then talking with you becomes nice.
Talking with me is nice if you don't take it personally.
I know you know arming the refugees is a fools errand. I am sure you know, I know that the west is not completely blameless in why things are the way that they are. I don't wake up every morning and bask in the reality that the US is in bed with some bad people who basically enslave their own countymen, quite frankly it makes me retch. I also sympathize with your feelings about the death that seemingly surrounds us. It is not something I want or enjoy or even think is necessary.
But I will not be cowtowed and told to look inward when these attacks happen. The West did not beat fascism and Communism to be taken down by a bunch of religious flunkies. I will not be told the west needs to give in because of some nebulous concept of fault. I don't really know what else to say.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Predictable. So place a stigma on islam like fascism and communism. Amateur securitization.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
Predictable. So place a stigma on islam like fascism and communism. Amateur securitization.
The stigma is not on Islam per se but the seeming tacit approval most of the muslim world gives when one of these attacks happen. The stigma is against the people who would like replace the wests value system with their own, all the while enjoying what it brings them.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viking
Which, as far as consistent stability is concerned, is the same as saying that these types of governments do not work.
In that case we could go further and point out that no types of government work as far as consistent stability is concerned.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
The stigma is not on Islam per se but the seeming tacit approval most of the muslim world gives when one of these attacks happen.
What is this based on? Just show me. I want to know.
The thing about demonization of an entire people is that it works for nobody but yourself. Why would I applaud or show "tacit" approval of anyone that is damaging the reputation of my faith and the main component of my community's regression?
Then again this is probably going nowhere.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
He must be a member here.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
The comments in that article summarize this thread perfectly.
I even spotted the Montmorency theory of mass killing somewhere in there. Very realist.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
What is this based on? Just show me. I want to know.
The thing about demonization of an entire people is that it works for nobody but yourself. Why would I applaud or show "tacit" approval of anyone that is damaging the reputation of my faith and the main component of my community's regression?
Then again this is probably going nowhere.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ical-minority/
The pew numbers from Feburary show that support for suicide bombings and/or violence in places like Jordan and Pakistan only went down after those places themselves have come under heavy attack from terrorists . Which is only human nature, I suppose.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...uslim-nations/
Beyond that, the same Westerners who are demanding their countries import refugees en masse (with no real plan for the long term) have social views that are wildly opposed by these muslims. Rights for women, rights for homosexuals, rights for transgenders, are all very much opposed by these people.
For the most part muslims shun or disdain social engagement in Western countries. As I have touched on before that is partially the fault of Western countries themselves. Most notably France whose idea of integration is basically force feeding muslim children pork, not the way I would try to integrate my immigrants.
Coloring all of this is economic malaise. A young man without a job, without a girlfriend, and no prospects is dangerous no matter what his color or creed. I feel bad for these young guys who feel like strangers in the countries in which they were born. I'm sure both of us could bring up hundreds of examples of young men from places like Bradford and Marseilles who left their countries to join ISIS looking for purpose.
The only problem is they end up hating ISIS and want to go back to England and France. They left feeling like foreigners and when they joined the group they thought would welcome them, they still felt like foreigners. It can't be easy, operating in that kind of social no mans land.
I simply don't think large scale importation of Islam works in Western countries. The values are too far apart. This is not a judgement on either belief, just a simple thought that they don't mesh well together.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Not clicking breitbart.
5% of Jordan are Iraqis. 3,240,000 are Palestinians. The latter are Muslims who a few decades ago went to war with the Jordanian monarchy for not fighting Israel.
Quote:
The most positive rating for al Qaeda was in the Palestinian territories, where 25% had a favorable view of the terrorist organization.
AQ, the main outspoken defender of Palestinian rights not too long ago. Palestinians are living under apartheid. It's not surprising they are hostile. Evidently this doesn't really bother most Muslim states.
Do you any info on the sentiments of Muslims who haven't been subjugated by a Zionist western outpost or AQ-influenced in the case of Pakistan?
Quote:
have social views that are wildly opposed by these muslims. Rights for women, rights for homosexuals, rights for transgenders, are all very much opposed by these people.
How many cases of homosexuals or transgender murdered by Muslims? If the United States is excelling here, surely the EU needs to bump up its incompetent security sector or stop biting off more than it can chew.
Quote:
For the most part muslims shun or disdain social engagement in Western countries.
Bold statement. How in the world can anyone from the United States think this...
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
Not clicking breitbart.
5% of Jordan are Iraqis. 3,240,000 are Palestinians. The latter are Muslims who a few decades ago went to war with the Jordanian monarchy for not fighting Israel.
AQ, the main outspoken defender of Palestinian rights not too long ago. Palestinians are living under apartheid. It's not surprising they are hostile. Evidently this doesn't really bother most Muslim states.
We are going to disagree on Israel, we can save that for another thread.
Quote:
How many cases of homosexuals or transgender murdered by Muslims? If the United States is excelling here, surely the EU needs to bump up its incompetent security sector or stop biting off more than it can chew.
You can be honest, you know most mulims oppose these things. That is fine, a man is entitiled to his opinion. It is simply not the way the west is trending.
Quote:
Bold statement. How in the world can anyone from the United States think this...
Integration in Europe is deteriorating and its the fault of both parties.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
LOL yeah I’m sure people have it rough in Texas. Their school textbooks are wonderful, I’m sure they get time in prison for speaking out too.
It’s funny because some of them actually think they have it rough. How cute.
Poverty, malnourishment, crime, lack of access to medical care - gun crime. Some people in Texas do have it rough, to say nothing of the inbreeding. I shouldn't cast stones over the last bit though - given the missing members of my own family tree.
Quote:
So basically you would’ve preferred to have this mess sooner rather than later.
It was a tragedy before we got involved, it might not have been quite as bad if we had got involved earlier. Heavy fighting has swept most of Syria at this point. It's possible that we could have contained the conflict, geographically. At the very least we would already have been there when IS reared up and they would not have had the successes they have if they had been subjected to the wrath of the Sons of Valhalla from the beginning.
Quote:
Apparently not. Picking a side will always lead to Islamist hydra. De-Baathification of the Iraqi army was the icing on the cake, you should’ve kept the high-morale secular armies while they were here instead of running them off to terrorist orgs and replacing them with head-drilling Shia militias who have had the time of their lives collecting the heads of your soldiers/American marines.
If you believe this then you're part of the problem. I'm certain not all Muslims believe this, unless all Muslims are liars.
Quote:
You either help like a responsible world power as China is doing in Africa or Russia is currently doing in collaboration with a legitimate incumbent - or you leave.
I blame certain countries for allowing US, British, and French military bases instead of Russian ones. GTFO for god's sake and quit crying about immigration, we lose thousands over here your speaking one breath.
That's incredibly naive. We aren't saints but we'll still be interested in helping you after all your oil is gone, we'll probably be even nicer than we are now. Russia and China will drop you like a lump of lead - these are the countries that start wars against friendly nations for land and/or resources and then lie about it.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
but we'll still be interested in helping you after all your oil is gone,
I'm not.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fisherking
Diagnosing the problem is not hard - I did it years ago - but finding a workable solution is. I continue to believe that the solution is increasing the economic outlook in Muslim countries for everyone, not just the princes, and toppling the most brutal of the dictators when they cross the line and start openly killing their own subjects.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
Diagnosing the problem is not hard - I did it years ago - but finding a workable solution is. I continue to believe that the solution is increasing the economic outlook in Muslim countries for everyone, not just the princes, and toppling the most brutal of the dictators when they cross the line and start openly killing their own subjects.
Toppling the dictators is literally why we have the current situation. I have no idea where you were during the Blair years, but apparently you refuse to acknowledge that Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad were able to prevent radical Islamists from rising in their own lands. Without them, we have the current situation.
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Re: Paris attacks: At least 120 dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
a completely inoffensive name
Toppling the dictators is literally why we have the current situation. I have no idea where you were during the Blair years, but apparently you refuse to acknowledge that Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad were able to prevent radical Islamists from rising in their own lands. Without them, we have the current situation.
I don't agree with PFH on the need to remove Middle Eastern dictators and I think it's chauvinistic to believe the ME's problems are our responsibility, but Assad is still in power and his regime wasn't able to stop the rise of jihadist factions like Al-Nusra in Syria, If anything the Assad regime just made things worse by firing on unarmed protesters and sparking the civil war. Portions of Yemen have also been taken over by Al-Qaeda and the Yemeni government is backed by the US.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
From my recollection, we armed Syrian rebels to undermine Assad, and Iran has been doing the same to us in Yemen. Also, the Syrian civil war was in large part driven by climate change causing a devastating drought from 2006 to 2009. You can't say that Assad screwed everything up by itself.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFTS
You can be honest, you know most mulims oppose these things. That is fine, a man is entitiled to his opinion. It is simply not the way the west is trending.
But it looks like it’s working out fine on that end. Not a problem to the extent that there can be no middle ground. Yes, it’s not Islamic. Who says they can’t coexist? US broke this barrier, Turkey sort of, and believe it or not the Gulf (locals and Filipinos mostly). Muslims aren’t alien to homosexuality. I don't see Russia getting this much flak.
Quote:
Integration in Europe is deteriorating and its the fault of both parties.
That's all there is to say about it really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFH
It was a tragedy before we got involved
Yeah I bet everything is a tragedy when you're at the beacon of civilization. Please. Things were fine before you came along.
Quote:
If you believe this then you're part of the problem. I'm certain not all Muslims believe this, unless all Muslims are liars.
The fact that you can't grasp this is proof of your total ignorance of these places. Shia and Sunni brothers in arms broken apart by a clueless governor who bent over to Iranian hegemony. The Persia-ification of Iraq. Arrogant power after arrogant power, only Iranians are much smarter than all the west combined.
Quote:
We aren't saints but we'll still be interested in helping you after all your oil is gone, we'll probably be even nicer than we are now.
Bullshit. http://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/Responding...rtive_Gulf.pdf
I can see it now.
Arabs: "So remember when we bailed you out that time?"
Europe: "Fix your human rights issues, chump"
Never gets old. Oh and I can see China dropping Africa like a "lump of lead."
Quote:
If anything the Assad regime just made things worse by firing on unarmed protesters and sparking the civil war.
After Islamists were armed by about 40 countries and planted shooters in between the crowds. Opposition in the Arab world is dirty dirty dirty.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Also, the Syrian civil war was in large part driven by climate change causing a devastating drought from 2006 to 2009. You can't say that Assad screwed everything up by itself.
Hi Bernie.
Goodbye Bernie.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
Hi Bernie.
Goodbye Bernie.
You can't even put forth a counter argument. I third the notion that you bring nothing to the discussion.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
That argument doesn't warrant a counterargument. You're the one that needs to elaborate on the correlation between climate change and political dissidence in Syria.
Why don't you look up the history of droughts in Syria before hopping on bandwagons.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
That argument doesn't warrant a counterargument. You're the one that needs to elaborate on the correlation between climate change and political dissidence in Syria.
Why don't you look up the history of droughts in Syria before hopping on bandwagons.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...hange-drought/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26943503
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innova...513729/?no-ist
http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/302350...risis-in-syria
It's been talked about way before Bernie had a spotlight. Why don't you go and pick flowers while they still grow.
EDIT: Sorry Hooahguy, I tried.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
It should go without saying that climate disruptions (from a human perspective) are one of the primary underlying causes for "political dissidence".
North Africa and the Middle East have everything going against them as it regards social stability, though in fact that's true for most places, as for example borne out by the perennially-anxious governments of Russia and China.
The West has pretty good lands.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Don't need good lands, the Netherlands is among the biggest food exporters in the world and it's a tiny country. Really advanced greenhouses aren't out of reach for these regions you just have to invest in them.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
If we have +30k of these lunatics in a geographically enclosed area.
Your data are outdated (forgive my pun). Russia claims that its bombers have destroyed 500 military infrastructure objects of ISIS. If we consider that half of the 30k ISIS fighters (15k) are in Syria and that each of the objects was guarded by at least a platoon (30 men), then 500*30= 15 000. Syria is free from ISIS (according to the Kremlin).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pannonian
Yes, I think they will come to us asking for permission to preach, for they are foreigners with no right to abode here.
I'm not sure they must do it. They can cross the Channel from elsewhere as if on business of their own (can you figure out the preachers among them?), then come to the mosque and start their preaching. Alternatively, they can preach at secret meetings without any license. And, finally, who told you that they are all FOREIGNERS? I'm sure by now there are some UK citizens who can do this (consider France and Belgium as an example).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
Secondly here in Northern and Eastern Europe we already have institutions for giving military training to large number of people annually, which we do. Unlike in your country where few hired service men protect the civilian population who could not protect their lunch box if their life depended on it.
The deploying surely is a problem as long as US keeps supporting Wahhabist countries like Saudi Arabia.
I'm surprised to hear such a discussion from people who have an experience of playing TW games. Such people ought to know that one of the most important factors in battles is morale. So the crucial issue about these recruits is how high their morale is likely to be.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
EU has unanimously enacted article 42.7 concerning mutual assistance if one participating country is attacked, after French request. This is the first time the article has been enacted in the history of EU.
http://www.france24.com/en/20151117-...stance-request
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gilrandir
I'm not sure they must do it. They can cross the Channel from elsewhere as if on business of their own (can you figure out the preachers among them?), then come to the mosque and start their preaching. Alternatively, they can preach at secret meetings without any license. And, finally, who told you that they are all FOREIGNERS? I'm sure by now there are some UK citizens who can do this (consider France and Belgium as an example).
It's a fairly common complaint amongst homegrown preachers, who tend to be moderate and not very numerous, that foreign firebreathers are imported to preach their brand of hatred. Those who are radicalised tend to travel to Pakistan or other known radicalisation hotbeds to complete their "education". The process is fairly well known. Looking at the Paris attackers, it seems Syria was where they completed their "education", prior to returning to France to do their stuff.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
That's a nice way to sneak in something on top of what already exists but fails, I am sure it sounds reasonable. The answer to the failling of the EU is always the same, more EU. Merkel lead the way, wir schaffen das. Dumb plumb eastblock farmhorese, wir schaffen das nicht, go to a cloister and have a messias-complex there kthxbye
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
That's a nice way to sneak in something on top of what already exists but fails, I am sure it sounds reasonable. The answer to the failling of the EU is always the same, more EU. Merkel lead the way, wir schaffen das. Dumb plumb eastblock farmhorese, wir schaffen das nicht, go to a cloister and have a messias-complex there kthxbye
I dont know why France is not calling the invocation of NATO article 5, but enacting this one. This could be nothing, too early to say.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
I dont know why France is not calling the invocation of NATO article 5, but enacting this one. This could be nothing, too early to say.
I already know what's going to happen. Law-enforcers from the east are going to be situated in the west and vica-versa, the only thing the EU wants is more EU
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Russia has just struck ISIS at Raqqa with long range bombers and cruise missiles from Mediterranean. Apparently this time they have notified US and France of their intentions.
https://www.rt.com/news/322413-russi...mediterranean/
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
Yeah I bet everything is a tragedy when you're at the beacon of civilization. Please. Things were fine before you came along.
Your assumption that we don't care because we aren't constantly wringing our hands is faulty.
You missed all the arguments about this a few years ago - at this point it's like watching a car crash repeatedly in very slow motions. As terrible as it is there's no point constantly saying "oh woe, oh that the world was kinder to man".
Quote:
The fact that you can't grasp this is proof of your total ignorance of these places. Shia and Sunni brothers in arms broken apart by a clueless governor who bent over to Iranian hegemony. The Persia-ification of Iraq. Arrogant power after arrogant power, only Iranians are much smarter than all the west combined.
So Arabs hate all non Arabs? Your argument here is, at best, confused.
Errr.
Yes, fix your human rights issues - we'll be happy to help.
Of course, you'd rather continue to live the good life using Indians as slave labour and Texans to drill your oil - if you have any mines I assume you use the Cornish to dig those.
China will drop Africa as soon as Africa has nothing to offer in materials, they are really only developing Africa's infrastructure to extract those materials, the average African miner isn't better off - he might be worse off because the mines are taking bigger and bigger risks.
Russia started TWO wars with Ukraine using proxies just because of paranoia and China is worse, they lock people up and send them to forced labour camps just for having an unsanctioned religion. China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.
Their products aren't that much better; Chinese swivel chairs occasionally explode when sat on.
I'm not even joking, the elevation mechanism under the seat uses trapped air to maintain height and with domestic Chinese quality control being what it is the seals are known to fail at high pressure. The lucky ones just lose a chair, occasionally they fail in such a way that metal is driven upwards through the seat.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Husar
Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.
If you're arguing that China has perfectly adequate quality control regulations, then I think the Chinese themselves would disagree with you.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pannonian
If you're arguing that China has perfectly adequate quality control regulations, then I think the Chinese themselves would disagree with you.
When I told this Chinese girl that Germans deem Chinese goods to be of inferior quality, she seemed offended.
As for what I mean, I'm not sure, maybe I just like anecdotal evidence or exploding accumulators...
In other news: Politics, politics never change...
http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpos...st-regio-11534
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Husar
When I told this Chinese girl that Germans deem Chinese goods to be of inferior quality, she seemed offended.
As for what I mean, I'm not sure, maybe I just like anecdotal evidence or exploding accumulators...
In other news: Politics, politics never change...
http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpos...st-regio-11534
See the milk powder scandal. After that, those Chinese who could afford it no longer trusted products made in China, preferring instead to buy from Hong Kong (with its British-established regulations). This led to a shortage of said product in Hong Kong for resident Hong Kongers, adding to the ill will between the territory and the mainland. Generally, Chinese who can afford it prefer Hong Kong-made products because of its tighter and reliable regulations.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HitWithThe5
But it looks like it’s working out fine on that end. Not a problem to the extent that there can be no middle ground. Yes, it’s not Islamic. Who says they can’t coexist? US broke this barrier, Turkey sort of, and believe it or not the Gulf (locals and Filipinos mostly). Muslims aren’t alien to homosexuality. I don't see Russia getting this much flak.
.
Because we aren't talking about Russia?
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Football stadium in Hanover has been evacuated due to suspicions that a terrorist attack in the city was imminent.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...b0e98c91b0d316
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Husar
Not to forget the iPhones, couldn't think of a bigger failure of a product. Several people have already died trying to take selfies with them, horrible safety record.
The Chinese are capable of building things to a high standard but they won't bother if they can get away with it.
Just like they can be nice and helpful, but won't bother if they can get away with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
a completely inoffensive name
Yesterday they evacuated the shopping centre in my little city. I get the sense we're in much more danger than we realise, save that we are usually saved by the security services. Obviously someone dropped the ball over Paris.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
The drought angle makes it look like opposition was inspired by this but Arab countries have begun importing water long ago, this is inevitable. What did we expect cutting off Syria and strip it of its opportunity to at least do something about it like the rest of the ME?
Shifting responsibility.
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Originally Posted by PFH
So Arabs hate all non Arabs? Your argument here is, at best, confused.
Yeah keep talking out of your butt over legit points. Do you think Iraqis enjoy their govt institutions and their superiors being outsiders? People they went to war with? They're calling it an Iranian province.
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Yes, fix your human rights issues - we'll be happy to help.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ern-day-slaves
I hope they are fixed. In the meantime take this money and stay quiet about it. You can use it as an excuse to not pay your debts later. I would list all the agreements Britain and the west broke in the ME but why bother.
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Russia started TWO wars with Ukraine using proxies just because of paranoia
Russia is tied to Ukraine, different politics in the ME.
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China itself is a mess, anyway, there are numerous examples of poorly built Chinese infrastructure breaking down and people dying.
Over the years they have proven to be the most rational power. Full respect for sovereignty of distant countries.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Russia and France are teaming up to fight ISIS.
Also, not looking at anyone in particular but everyone needs to think before they post a personal attack. I already shut down one thread because of it and I do not want to have to do it again. Ive been lax about enforcing rules so far but if need be I will crack down like what happened two months ago.
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
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Re: Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris
Well ISIS would count as a facist organization.
