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So, is it ok if I do research on the Parthians, a people I personally consider 'barbarians' because they considered themselves both Greek and Achaemenid but were neither, thus contributing nothing to the Persian culture and letting Hellenism expand? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
~Wiz
It’s finally finished. After a bit more of 200 web pages of “historical” info (some very far from it), due to the lack, on my part, of books about the subject, I’ve compiled some good info that will shed some light on the Iberian and Celtiberian issue.
This post starts with a small historical analysis on Celts (the greatest cultural influence throughtout Europe before and during the early stages of Roman conquest), then with a small set of characteristics concerning the Iberian Peninsula and their populations. It closes with a brief account of the Iberian Peninsula wars until Roman rule was installed, and finishes with a description of the units that should more closelly relate to historical data.
The Celts
“The warrior class
Most primitive societies had a warrior class: both the early Greeks and the Romans did. The Celts were no exception. Their warriors were drawn from what we would describe as the middle and upper class. The warrior class did the actual fighting: the free poor served as chariot drivers. The Celt was a warrior in the heroic sense. Everything had to be larger than life. He lived for war. His glorification of bravery often led him to recklessness. Part of a warriors ritual was to boast of his victories, and fighting between warriors was an important part of life.
Armour and weapons
Most Celts scorned the use of armour and before about 300 B.C. preferred to fight naked. Some Celtic tribes still fought naked at the battle of Telamon in 225 B.C. The Celt was renowned as a swords-man but he also used javelins and spears. Two spears which were found at La Tene in Switzerland were nearly 2.5m long. His only protection was his large shield which was usually oval. The suggestion that the Celt wore heavy bracelets in battle has to be questioned, as it is hard to understand how they would stay on his arm whilst he wielded his sword. Dionysius tells us that in battle the Celts whirled their swords above their heads, slashing the air from side to side, then struck downwards at their enemies as if chopping wood. It was this use of the sword that so terrified their enemies. The Celts did not fight in a rabble as is so often supposed. They were organized in companies. This can be proved by their use of standards.
Headhunters
The Celt was a head-hunter. In battle he would cut off the head of his fallen enemy and often hang it from his horse's neck. After battle he would display the severed head at the entrance to his temple. The severed head is a constant theme in Celtic art. At the battle of Beneventumin 214 B.C. the Roman general Gracchus had to order his army of freed slaves (presumably Celts) to stop collecting heads and get on with the fighting. After a battle the Celts would often dedicate their enemies weapons to the gods and throw them into a river or lake. The hundreds of weapons that have been dredged from the Lake of Neuchatel at La Tene were such offerings. In fact the site at La Tene has revealed so many Celtic artifacts that its name has been given to the whole Celtic culture.
The chiefs
The chiefs and the wealthiest Celts often did wear armour particularly when they came into contact with the Greeks and Romans. They often adopted items of Greek or Roman armour. A pair of greaves were found in the chieftain's grave at Ciumesti. Several graves have been found in Northern Italy which contain Etruscan armour and Celtic weapons. Before a battle the chiefs would ride out, in front of the army clashing their weapons on their shields, proclaiming their great deeds and challenging the enemy to single combat. Caesar describes the British as dressed in skins (meaning leather) and decorated with woad, a blue dye. Some tattooed skin from a grave of this period suggests that the Britons were tattooed in blue.“
Peter Connolly
The Celtiberians and the Lusitanians
Hispania
The Iberian Peninsula comprises an elevated central plateau whose climate is continental and whose sparse rainfall makes it suitable for pasturage rather than agriculture. On the north and south are high mountains, forested in antiquity—the Pyrenees and Sierra Nevada, respectively. Lower interior mountains border fertile river valleys—Baetis (Guadalquivir) and Ebro—that lead down to fertile coastal plains. Hispanic agriculture was noted for its cereals, wines, and especially olive oil, while flax was a specialty of the Ebro Valley. Hispania's mountains were particularly abundant in minerals—copper, iron, and, in the Sierra Morena, prodigious amounts of silver. There were good harbors on the southern coast at Gades and Carthago Nova. Celtiberians inhabited the north-central plateau, to the west were Lusitanians, and throughout the rest of the peninsula lived some 20 other independent peoples. (For the other area of the empire—the Balkan Peninsula, Asia Minor, Syria, and North Africa.
Hispania and the Roman conquest
Civilization in the Iberian Peninsula dates back to the Stone Age. The Basques may be descended from the prehistoric humans whose art has been preserved in the caves at Altamira. They antedated the Iberians, who mixed with Celtic invaders at an early period. Because of its mineral and agricultural wealth and its position guarding the Strait of Gibraltar, Hispania was known to the Mediterranean peoples from very early times. The Phoenicians passed through the strait and established (9th cent. B.C.) colonies in Andalusia, notably at Cádiz and Tartessus (possibly the biblical Tarshish). Later the Carthaginians settled on the east coast and in the Balearic Islands, where Greek colonies also sprang up. In the 3d cent. B.C., the Carthaginians under Hamilcar Barca began to conquer most of the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearics and established Cartagena as capital.
The Roman victory over Hannibal in the second of the Punic Wars (218–201 B.C.) resulted in the expulsion of the Carthaginians. The Romans conquered E and S Hispania, but met strong resistance elsewhere, notably in the north. The fall (133 B.C.) of Numantia marked the end of organized resistance, and by the 1st cent. A.D. Roman control was virtually complete. Except for the Basques, the Iberian population became thoroughly romanized, perhaps more so than any subject population. Roman rule brought political unity, law, and economic prosperity.
Numantia
Ancient settlement, Hispania, near the Durius (now Douro) River and north of modern Soria. Numantia played a central role in the Celt-Iberian resistance to Roman conquest. Its inhabitants withstood repeated Roman attacks from the time of Cato the Elder’s campaign (195 B.C.) until Scipio Aemilianus finally took the city in 133 B.C., after an eight-month blockade, thus completing the conquest of Hispania. Archaeologists have uncovered the remains of Roman camps and evidence of settlement dating back to the Bronze Age.
Lusitania
Roman province in the Iberian Peninsula. As constituted (c.A.D. 5) by Augustus it included all of modern central Portugal as well as much of W Hispania. The province took its name from the Lusitani, a group of warlike tribes who, despite defeats, resisted Roman domination until their great leader, Viriatus, was killed (139 B.C.) by treachery. In the 1st cent. B.C. they joined in supporting Sertorius, who set up an independent state in Hispania. The old identification of Portugal with Lusitania and of the ancestors of the Portuguese with the Lusitanians (hence Camões’s great epic was entitled Os Lusíadas) is now largely ignored, but the creation of Lusitania may have had a faint echoing effect in the setting up of the separate kingdom of Portugal many centuries later.
Viriatus
d. 139 B.C., leader of the Lusitani (see Lusitania). One of the survivors of the massacre of the Lusitani by the Roman praetor Servius Sulpicius Galba, Viriatus rose as a popular leader and persuaded his countrymen to resist Roman rule. He gathered an army and in 147 B.C. defeated the Romans. During the next two years he established control over a considerable area. One Roman defeat followed another. The victories of Viriatus encouraged the Celtiberians to renew their resistance to Rome. The senate then sent an army under Fabius Maximus Servilianus, which Viritus succeeded in trapping. Instead of destroying this army, he concluded a peace and allowed the Romans to leave. For this act of clemency he was declared a friend of Rome by the senate. In 139, however, the successor of Servilianus, Servilius Caepio, with the tacit consent of the senate, renewed the war. Viriatus, probably swayed by his countrymen, who were weary of the war, opened negotiations with Caepio, who brought the war to an end by bribing Viriatus’ emissaries to kill him. His rule collapsed after his assassination.
Bartleby’s Encyclopedia of World History, Sixth Edition 2001
“ROME AND HISPANIA.-THE NUMANTINE WAR (206-133)
Africanus the elder left Hispania in 206. After a provincial government of nine years (206-197), the country was divided into two provinces, separated by the IBÉRUS (Ebro), and each province was assigned to a praetor. It was some time, however, before Hispania was really brought into a state of complete peace and order. The mountains and forests were a formidable obstacle to the Roman legions, and favored guerilla warfare, which makes conquest slow and laborious.
The most warlike of the Hispanic tribes was the CELTIBÉRI, who occupied the interior of the peninsula. They were always uncertain and intractable, continually breaking out into revolt. In 195, Cato the elder put down a rebellion led by them. He established more firmly the Roman power east of the Ibérus. He disarmed the inhabitants of this part of Hispania, and compelled all from the Pyrenees to the Guadalquivir to pull down their fortifications.
Still the smouldering fires of rebellion were not extinguished, for, sixteen years later (179), we find TIBERIUS SEMPRONIUS GRACCHUS, the father of the famous Gracchi, as Governor of Hispania, fighting the troublesome Celtibéri. He captured over one hundred of their towns, but tempered his victories with moderate measures, showing himself greater in peace than in war. He granted to the poorer classes lands on favorable conditions, and did much to produce contentment among the natives. But farther west, in the valleys of the Douro and Tagus, and in Lusitania (Portugal), there seems to have been constant warfare.
In 154, MUMMIUS, the same who eight years later sacked Corinth, was Governor of Farther Hispania. His defeat by the Lusitanians encouraged the Celtibéri to revolt again, and there followed another defeat, with a massacre of many Roman citizens. Two years later (152), CLAUDIUS MARCELLUS avenged these losses, founded Corduba, and governed the country humanely. His successors, LUCIUS LUCULLUS and SERVIUS GALBA, were so cruel and grasping as to drive the Lusitanians into another open rebellion, headed by VIRIÁTHUS, a bold and daring bandit. During seven years (147-140) he defeated again and again the armies sent against him. The Celtibéri joined his standards, and Hispania seemed likely to slip from the Romans. The only check to these successes was during the command of METELLUS MACEDONICUS (143); when he was recalled, matters returned to their former condition.
In 140, the Consul Mancínus was obliged to capitulate, and, to save himself and his army, made a treaty which the Senate refused to sanction.
Viriáthus was finally (139) assassinated by persons hired by the Consul Caepio; his people were then subdued, and the government was ably conducted (138) by DECIMUS JUNIUS BRUTUS.
THE NUMANTINE WAR (143-133).
The Celtibéri, however, were still in arms. The strong city of NUMANTIA, the capital of one of their tribes, witnessed more than one defeat of a Roman Consul before its walls (141-140). Finally Rome sent out her best general, Africanus the younger.
After devoting several months to the disciplining of his troops, he began (134) a regular siege of the place. It was defended with the utmost bravery and tenacity, until, forced by the last extreme of famine, it surrendered (133). The inhabitants were sold as slaves, and the town was levelled to the ground. The victor was honored with the title of NUMANTÍNUS.
The fall of Numantia gave Rome a hold upon the interior of Hispania, which was never lost. The country now, with the exception of its northern coast, was nominally Roman territory. Several towns were established with Latin municipal rights _(municipia)_, and, on the whole, order was maintained. Along the coast of the Mediterranean there sprang up many thriving and populous towns, which became centres of civilization to the neighboring districts, and were treated by Rome rather as allies than as subjects. Some of them were allowed to coin the silver money of Rome. The civilizing process, due to Roman influence, went on rapidly in these parts, while the interior remained in barbarism.
In 105 the peninsula was overrun by the Cimbri, a barbarous race from the north. The country was ravaged, but finally saved by the brave Celtibéri, who forced the invaders back into Gaul.”
ROBERT F. PENNELL, The History Net – Ancient History
Lusitania and the Lusitanians:
“To the north of river Tagus we find Lusitania, the land of the greatest of Iberian tribes, that the Romans fought for a long time. To the south, Lusitania is bounded by the river Tagus: to the west by the ocean; to the east by the Carpetani, Vettoni, Vaccei; and to the North, by the Gallaeci, all of them very well known tribes. As for other tribes, they need not be mentioned, because they are small and of no importance. Contrary to what happens today, the Gallaeci were also called Lusitanni by some. To the east, the Gallaeci’s territory is confined by the Asturian’s and Celtiberian’s. The others are only confined by the Celtiberian’s territory. The length of Lusitania is of 3000 stadiums, being the width much smaller, that is the distance between the easternborder and the coast in the opposite side. The eastern part of Lusitania is high and arid, but the low regions are flat until they reach the sea, with the exception of some low mountain ranges(…).
The country of which we speak (Lusitania), is fertile and crossed by small and large rivers, all with their springs in the east and flowing paralel to the river Tagus. They are navigable in the greatest extent of their length and contain a great quantity of auriferous sand. After Tagus, the most important rivers are Mundas, only navigable in a short strech, and Vacua. After these, the Douro, coming from afar, crosses Numantia and many villages of Celtiberians and Vaccei, and it’s navigable by great ships for 800 stadiums. “
Strabo of Amasya (Pontus), Greek historian, 63 BC - 24 AD
“The Lusitanians are the strongest amongst Iberians; to war, they carry very small shields, made out of Esparto (a natural hard vegetable fiber), with which can easely defend their bodies. During battle they wield it skilfully, moving it from one side to the other of their bodies, defending themselves with hability from every blow that falls upon them. They also use spears, entirely made of iron with harpoon-shaped tips, and ware helms and a sword very similar to the Celtiberians; they trow their spears with precision and to a great distance, very frequently causing grevious wounds. They are swift while moving and fast while running, so they flee and chase quickly (…). With these light armours, being able to run very fast and being very sharp-minded, they can only be defeated with difficulty. They consider the rocks and ranges their homeland and so seek refuge in them, because they are impracticable to large and heavy armies. So, because of that, the Romans, who have organized countless expeditions against them, although being able to counter their daring, have not, dispite of their commitment, been able to end their pillaging.”
Diodorus Siculus of Sicily, Sicilian historian, 80 BC - 20 AD
“They say that the Lusitanians are skilled in ambushes and chasses, swift, quick and sthealthy; they wield small shields two feet wide and concave in their outside, being manouvered with the help of two straps around the neck, and, so it seems, without grips. Beyond that they use daggers or knifes. Most of them wears linen armours and leather caps, very few others mail armours and three feathered helms. Some infantrymen also use greeves, and each of them carries several short spears; some of them with bronze tips.”
Strabo of Amasya (Pontus), Greek historian, 63 BC - 24 AD
It was somewhat difficult (to say the least) to organize pertinent information about weaponery and military organization among Celtiberian and Iberian tribes. That was particulary evident with Lusitanians, due to the relative lack of historical records about them. Celtiberian tribes are more documented, due to their earlier contact with Carthaginians and Romans. Another difficult aspect we must take into consideration is the fact that, like many other “barbarians”, there wasn’t a standardization in equipment among Celtiberian and Iberian soldiers. Once again, this is even more obvious when dealing with Lusitanians. Personal wealth, weapon or armour preference, as well as the will for warriors to distiguish themselves from others, were deciding factors to increase variability and confusion. All of this makes the work of an EB researcher a more ambiguous and frustating task. The unit, armour and weapon standardization of a TotalWar game doesn’t suit historical precision (or imprecision should we say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wink.gif ). What this means is that, amongst the great variability of equipment among warriors, some aproximations must be done for the sake of simplicity. So, due to the well known roots of social organization among Celtic tribes, we can infer what type of military structure was used among the Iberian Peninsula’s armies. Although only small cultural diferences existed between Iberians and Celtiberian tribes, their war processes were somewhat different. The Celtiberians relied in a more organized type of warfare. They used effective spear and sword infantry units (both recruited by Hannibal) as well as various types of cavalry. The Carthaginians rellied on them troughout their wars with Rome. They also rellied on the famous Belearic Slingers. Iberians (specially Lusitanians) on the other hand, due to the particular type of terrain they fought on and the enemies they faced, used more frequently light infantry (mostly javelin skirmishers) and light cavalry (mostly javelin skirmishers too), quite adapt to the type of ambush and guerrilla warfare they sucessfully adopted against the Romans.
I tried not to allow innacurate or “imaginative” info to deviate the search for historical accurate data. Bare in mind that, although some of my conclusions might be viewed as innacurate, due to the variety of weapons, armours and terrains, they are, IMHO, perfectely feasible and based on facts, unlike “imaginative” work like the now famous Iberian Bull Warrior helmet… http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wink.gif
A brief description of the units that are the most accurate possible, relating to the scarcity of records and the variability of unit composition, follows. I decided not to fall in temptation and use every available weapon, armour or equipment to “create” units, but instead to relate the most probable look and habilities of historical descripted ones. The text is organized to correspond to a game description.
You can find graphical information here:
The Celts
Lusitanian Weapons
Lusitanian Warriors
Los Iberos
Ancient Hispanic Armies
Lusitanian (Iberian) Units (All bearded and with long hairs. All had boots made of intertwined wool and boar leather. All used a body-length wool cape.):
-Lusitanian Skirmishers (similar to Greek Peltasts or Spanish Javelinmen): Wearing the Sago (a knee-high linen or wool tunic), without helmet or chest protection, these sheperds are ocasional warriors, recruited from the poorest of the Lusitanian population. They use the Sude (a completelly wooden javelin hardned by fire, with sharped wooden tips in both ends). When these are spent, only their Rhanda (knife with 20cm blade) and their speed can afford them some protection. As any light infantry, they are vulnerable to cavalry.
Armed with Sude.
Sude good against armour.
Very weak defense.
Poor morale.
Very fast.
Can hide in the open.
-Lusitanian Warband Infantry (Coetrati– the Romans called them this because of the Coetra – the small shield they used): Although not professional warriors, these men are socially wealthier and more confident than Lusitanian Skirmishers, as well as more used to war due to occasional fights with other tribes. They wear the Sago and the Cudo or Galea (an hard leather head protection, that only leaves the face and ears uncovered), these warriors make ideal skirmishers skilled in the use of their Tragula (a javelin with a very sharp blade and 2 opposing hooks, existing in varied sizes. The smaller ones are very effective against armour). They also wield a spear with a large barbed blade, allowing them to hold their own against cavalry. When their Tragula are spent, their Falcata (a double-curve single-edged sword) and Machoera (dagger - the Pugio was the Roman name for dagger) or Rhanda (knife with 20cm blade), can be used effectivelly to strike down unorganized foes, while the small 2 feet wide round shield (Coetra, Pelta or Peltra) they hold in their hands (with two leather straps around the neck), affords them some protection in hand-to-hand combat.
Armed with Tragula.
Tragula very good against armour.
Defend well vs cavalry.
Good morale.
Fast.
Ambush capabilities.
-Lusitanian Guard (Ambacti): These men are of higher birth, forming the faithfull followers of Lusitanian chieftans and bound religiously by a promisse of loyalty. They are used to war and so, are skilled and brave. Wearing full protection bronze helmets (with a crest of horse's mane) with the Bucula (bronze face mask) and the Perponto (a chest protection made of an intertwined mix of linen, thick wool and hard leather straps) over their Sago, as well as Ocrêas (hard leather greaves), these men are used to combat and have as their main weapons the Gesso (a small, very light, long-range javelin, effectivelly a dart, with a large double-edged leaf-shaped blade), the Falcata and the Coetra, as well as the Machoera or Rhanda. They are skilled, hardy and very competent in hand-to-hand combat, which makes them effective against the best troops the enemy has to offer.
Armed with Gesso.
Gesso good against armour (longer range than javelins).
Very good attack.
Good defense.
Very good morale.
Ambush capabilities.
-Lusitanian Cavalry (Mounted Ambacti): Although not a numerous unit of Lusitanian armies, these cavalrymen are fundamental as scouts and, most of all, as good skirmishers. As Ambacti, these men are of higher birth and bound religiously by a promisse of loyalty. However, they are the wealthier amongst the population, allowing them to use and maintain horses. Lusitanian horses are known for their agility and speed (Romans say that the Lusitanian mares have been fecundated by the wind). These warriors are used to war and so, motivated. They wear full protection bronze helmets (with a crest of horse's mane) with the Bucula (bronze face mask), the Perponto over their Sago, and Ocrêas. They use as their main weapons the Gesso, the Falcata and the Coetra. They also carry the Machoera or Rhanda. They are courageous and competent, but as with any medium cavalry, should use their skirmishing hability and speed in combat to avoid spear infantry.
Armed with Gesso.
Gesso good against armour (longer range than javelins).
Good charge.
Good attack.
Good defense.
Very good morale.
Fast (cav speed).
Celtiberian Units (All clean-shaven and wearing leather sandals):
-Celtiberian Slingers (the Balearic were the most famous of them): Wearing a short linen tunic, without helmet or chest protection, these warriors are very effective when using their slings. Fast, due to their light equipment, and with longer range than javelin equipped troops, they are ideal harassers of enemy heavy infantry. Their Falcata and Machoera can be used effectivelly to strike down unorganized foes, while the small 2 feet wide round shield Coetra, affords some protection in hand-to-hand combat. As any light infantry, they are vulnerable to cavalry.
Armed with slings (with stone projectiles).
Projectiles good against armour.
Weak defense.
Fast.
-Celtiberian Warriors: These occasional warriors make effective swordsmen. The constant warring amongst tribes makes them rugged and hardy. They wear partial protection bronze helmets (face uncovered and with a small rear orifice for the hair) and round bronze breastplates above their short linen tunic. The Falcata and the Coetra can be very effective in hand-to-hand combat. The Machoera is also used as a last ditch defense. Although not professionals, they are competent in hand-to-hand combat.
Good attack.
-Celtiberian Light Infantry: These men are hardned warriors and constitute the bulk of Celtiberian armies. They wear partial protection bronze helmets (face uncovered and with a small rear orifice for the hair) and round bronze breastplates above their short linen tunic. Their main weapons are the spear and the Solifera (a full-metal heavy javelin). The characteristic Gallic oval shield, is used for protection. They use it in conjunction with the sword the Romans called Gladius Hispaniensis (and would later adopt) for close combat. They fight in close, supported formation, although not in great units like the Greek Phalanx. These close formations, their spears and large shields, make them the reliable mainstay of Celtiberian armies.
Armed with Solifera.
Solifera very good against armour.
Defend well vs cavalry.
Very good attack.
Good defense.
Good morale.
-Celtiberian Heavy Infantry: These men are hand picked warriors, choosen among the bravest and most skilled men of the population. Proud, skilled and bold, they are a fearfull sight for any enemy. Wearing partial protection bronze helmets (face uncovered and with a crest), scale armour woven to hard leather, bronze forearm protections and bronze Ocrêas, these men have as their main weapons the spear, the Solifera (a full-metal heavy javelin) and the Gladius Hispaniensis. The characteristic Gallic oval shield, is used for protection and they also carry the Machoera. They fight in close, supported formation, although not in great units like the Greek Phalanx. Being well armoured, using tight formations and being superbly skilled and confident, they form the fierce elite units of Celtiberian armies.
Armed with Solifera.
Solifera very good against armour.
Defend well vs cavalry.
Excelent attack.
Very good defense.
Very good morale.
-Celtiberian Light Cavalry: Celtiberian armies are known for their superb infantry, not by their cavalry. However, this is not due to the fact that their cavalry is of poor quality. These cavalrymen make good scouts, but also good skirmishers. They wear partial protection bronze helmets (face uncovered and with a small rear orifice for the hair), and a short linen tunic, without chest protection. Their weapons are the Solifera, the Falcata and the Coetra. Although competent, as with any light cavalry, they should use their skirmishing hability and speed in combat to avoid spear infantry.
Armed with Solifera.
Solifera very good against armour.
Good charge.
Fast (cav speed).
-Celtiberian Nobles: These men form the highest social class among Celtiberians. They are wealthier and as such, well equipped. They are also skilled and brave horsemen. These cavalrymen are mainly used as a shock force and, although not effective against organized heavy infantry, they are superb against lighter infantry troops, as well as against enemy light cavalry. They wear partial protection bronze helmets (face uncovered and with a crest), scale armour woven to hard leather, bronze forearm protections and bronze Ocrêas. Their main weapon is the lance. They also use the Falcata and the Coetra. They also carry the Machoera. They are courageous and skilled, but as any cavalry, should use their speed to escape the grasp of spear infantry.
Very good charge.
Good attack.
Good defense.
Very good morale.
This concludes my contribution for Europa Barbarorum. I would like to hear your comments, if you think anything is wrong.
EDIT: Added Roman historians quotes. Minor corrections and adjustments.
Very...thurough Very nice What do I need to do, and what have you all done for the Germans?
Similar to Comitatii I posted for germanics, additionally there are the Soldurii of the Gauls... Hmmm, maybe there could be made fewer Units to display all Noblemen-Warriors for all Celto-Slavic Factions ?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
AqConsul, just follow where you see a Gap in whats done so far...
Wiz - EB is a volunteer group, anybody can join and do what he wants for himself. Just go ahead
Thanks But, I will still have to colate some Roman writters quotes about Lusitanians and Celtiberians, as well as some minor corrections...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I agree that they must be similar, but since there are different "barbarian" factions, they really shouldn't have similar units.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I still have to go and get some more info. I'm going to edit and perfect my post today and tomorrow, with some new readings I have been able to get in these last few days...
Well then - lets get started asap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Very nice Aymar, I see things are going smoothly here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
Thanks, TK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
BTW, I've finally finished the definitive version of the texts. Unless I find any unseen incorrection, this will be the final version of the text.
EDIT: Final correction about the origin of Gladius and some reworking of units.
Very Nice Unit descriptions...
I guess we'd have to sort something out for the Celtic Britons soon enough. I still need more information about Celtic Swords though.
At long last I have found something useful on the net. Here you go:
Celtic warriors Ignore the stupid intro, take a look at the historical sources. Not just Britons, so maybe useful to other research groups.
British Celtic swords finally some decent, archaeological drawings of appropitate swords.
Celtic spear a not bad reconstruction of a Celtic LaTene spearhead.
Aside from that it's just the usual rubbish, Merlin's Celtic sword can be yours for only $199.99 You can have some Celtic love potions too, how about some lucky heather? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/wacko.gif I think I shall buy that elixier of life I saw, I don't feel well and immortality is always nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
Ah, lady Frog, thankyou. *bows*Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I do know what you mean about the large amount of 'Usual Rubbish' on the net... Its actually really difficult to find any Celtic info on the web without finding a page that reffers to 'Merlin's Sword' or something.
Now all we have to do is think up some potential units.
Thank you very much, The_Emperor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
After some more reading, I had to correct several mistakes. They concerned 2 units and the Gladius Hispaniensis origin, which was wrong.
Would be an honour for me to join the cause...
Oleander Ardens
Interested in almost everything, but I will focus on the Scyths and Germans, while keeping an eye on the Celtic tribes in the Alps (especially Noricum), if possible... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
-Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Mouzafphaerre picks up the link and flees http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
_
So, guys What's cooking? Anyone finishing work? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
For Stefan: I would apreciate if you can give everybody some pointers about the estimated time to present our work to CA. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif
I'm falling over the problem of West Parthian cataphracts and their function in combat...
Ok, a little taster of my work, of probably the most interesting unit the Parthians have to the usual eye.
East Parthian lancer
The quintessenial 'cataphract'. They wear steel helmets, a coat of mail reaching to the knees and made of rawhide covered with scales of iron or steel. Over the coat of scale mail they wear a tunic with faction colors, reaching to the upper legs. The arms and legs are protected by strips of smelted iron banded together to form an effective protection against melée weapons, which are worn over the tunic. The horse is covered from head to knees (back legs) by armour made of scale armour made of steel or bronze. The helmet is a skull cap made of iron, with either a small mane, just a tuft, or none at all.
Irresistable charge (lance)
Armed with lance, bow and sword
Normal attack (bow)
Strong attack (sword)
Missiles good versus armor
Very good defence
Slow
Weak when flanked
High morale
Disciplined
Horse armor, as found at the site of the ancient Palmyran/Roman/Hellenistic city of Dura Europos:
http://www.romancoins.info/mil-squamata.JPG
~Wiz
Example of a helmet a Parthian cataphract could have worn:
http://www.romancoins.info/coolus-mannheim.JPG
As befits Roman nature, some of their troops wore it as well.
~Wiz
Great info, Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-thumbsup.gif
I just thought that this should really have been placed in the Colosseum or the Main Hall.
It is not getting enough attention here.
As long as our info reaches CA, that's what matters, isn't it??... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Well is it reaching CA ?
The info must reach more consumers because power of numbers is a must for any activism, either than or money http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
Ok. Just PM Stefan.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
How can I put the Europa banner up? I wanna support to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/barrel.gif
You could use the old one or mine, by putting it in your sig by way of [IMG] http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gif
~Wiz
This really belongs in the Colosseum,
CA regularly view that place and this is all about RTW after all.
A link at least would be a good idea.
I'll second that motion...
I'll be happy to move this thread, but I feel the need to get a greater consensus from the thread contributors first. Two more "Move it" ''s from thread contributors, and consider it done.
NOTE: My intention when/if this is moved, is to also delete these "admin" type posts. Any problems with that?
Move it, please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
~Wiz
of course, that sounds reasonable http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../ceasaryes.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Okay, I'm back after having a lot trouble with my Girlfriend...
There a two Points we MUST face now if this shall work:
1. The thread should be moved to the Colosseum.
2. There must at the end be a fixed Release for our worked out Info to CA, we already have June and the game is officially claimed to be in the stores in Autumm this year (September, October???). It is possible that the Info-package is already to late, through realisation of our thoughts might delay the game.
Can we say 30th June 2004 is the final day when the Europa Barbarorum work has to be finished? I would then rather say we did present our Info to public in the Colosseum and secondly send it via Email to CA so often that they pass it to the developers...
In the other direction: Any other Ideas how to reach CA-Devs?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...evalcheers.gif
OK, that makes 2 more "move it's". I decided to leave the admin-type posts in, as they also chronicle the birth & development of this movement.
The Colosseum mods will have to "pin" this. If they don't in 48 hours, I'll ask an admin to do it for us.