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Charles' quote had to do with the extension of his empire and the problems he had mantaining so many different kingdoms and territories. I think it depicts very well the "unrest" problems in RTW, specially the "cultural penalty" ones.
Anyway, of Course, I would like to see the maps. Can you add the link or is it the same as last time?
I didn't get any answer from Barocca so I will ask Duke John for our sub forum.
I have finally made most of work for P&M TW for the MTW and eliminated the strange bug which drove me mad for last 2 weeks. So I will add new unists from High and I even have several free slots to use.
I am seaching for new units now.
@Swordmaster
I believe we have 'urban' infantry - urban and town watch ( halberdiers and weak musketeers), but still it is good you have found thia unit.
Please add something more - as usual singular/plural/description/image stuff. And also - when were they used - I need this info for MTW edition.
BTW You can expect Rocroi ( both sides) in P&M 1.0 or even in P&M 0.7 (soon).
@@Silver Rusher
Noone is ignoring you.
Answer.
I don't think we want to do this. I am against this idea and, as it seems, it is the statement of most of our crew.
I say - we can cooperate, exchange some things ( skins for example) here and there, but our mods are too different. Especially I am rather happy with most of the work which is completed already, but it was really hard to decide what to implement and what to leave or ignore, otherwise we would have 350+ units in our roster...
Besides your mod is more precise when it comes to earlier ( up to 1600) period, and our is better for later ( 1600+) era. Finally your mod starts earlier, almost 100 years earlier, in late Medieval which is obviously not Pike & Shot period of military history.
My/our mod is also, officially, related to the LORDS Modding Community which means that it really is 'the younger brother' of NTW.
I think that we will cooperate with them in close future somehow since we will need some 'very advanced' units from NTW2 exactly as it is in the MTW edition of this mod.
I can't find any reason why not do this with your mod and your team, to a certain extent, of course.
@Zastow
Glad you've answered before Xmas !
If you have something bigger, please send me it cegorach77@o2.pl in about 1mg pieces ( RAR). I have lots of this kind of date in my HDD and I am using it for new units, sometimes.
Actually the more you propose the better the unit list will be, and entire persian faction.
Also one of the most important ideas for this mod are the UNITS, everything about these, starting with names ( original names preferred).
Actually our unit list was created this way
1. someone proposes a unit,
2. we discuss the idea ( sometimes not)
3. it is added to the roster,
4. it is added to the beta version ( in the MTW edition for now).
A very good method of creating the mod, really my favourite since I am too lazy to do this on my own.
See first 2 pages of this thread, I mean Ranika posts - I implemented most of his ideas and even prepared the historical battle he presented
( he sent me all the data necessary to do this).
Prepare this in a similar way and you will see results. Maybe a historical battle as well ?
@EC
I am happy with the last culture/faction list.
Quotes are also very good.
Here are some of my favourite from polish history.
'We don't need a king, we are the Republic'
Chancellor Zamoyski before second election, after Henry left Poland
( 1573?).
"Jurabis aut non regnabis" ( You will never be the king if you won't swear)
Jan Firlej to Henry, when he tried to avoid swearing that he will respect religious tolerance in Poland ( Warsaw Confederacy 1572).
"Venimus, vicimus, Deus vicit"
(I came, I saw, God has won)
king Jan III Sobieski after the battle at Vienna 1683.
And finally see this:
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ANJOU SILK LINEN
SetResources:: ID_ALGERIA GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ANJOU LINEN SILK
//SetResources:: ID_ANTIOCH
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ANTIOCH SILK
SetResources:: ID_AQUITAINE SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_AQUITAINE WINE
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ARAGON MERCENARIES COTTON
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ARMENIA GEMS
SetResources:: ID_AUSTRIA COPPER SILVER SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_AUSTRIA MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_BAVARIA SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BAVARIA MERCENARIES LINEN
SetResources:: ID_BOHEMIA SILVER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BOHEMIA LINEN MERCENARIES GLASSWARE
SetResources:: ID_BRANDENBURG COPPER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BRANDENBURG LINEN MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BRITTANY LINEN
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BULGARIA WINE
SetTradableGoods:: ID_BURGUNDY WINE MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_CARPATHIA COPPER SILVER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CARPATHIA MERCENARIES WINE
SetResources:: ID_CASTILE IRON FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CASTILE SILK
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CHAMPAGNE WINE
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CONSTANTINOPLE SILK GRAIN MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_CORDOBA FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CORDOBA SILK
SetResources:: ID_CORSICA SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CRIMEA GRAIN MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CRETE MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_CROATIA SILVER COPPER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_CYPRUS MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_DENMARK BUTTER FISH MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_EGYPT SPICES IVORY MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_FINLAND FURS
SetResources:: ID_FLANDERS FOREST SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_FLANDERS WOOL SILK MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_FRANCONIA SILVER SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_FRANCONIA MERCENARIES WINE LINEN
SetResources:: ID_FREISLAND FOREST SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_FREISLAND WOOL MERCENARIES SPICES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_GENOA MERCENARIES GLASSWARE
SetResources:: ID_GRANADA SILVER FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_GRANADA SILK COTTON
SetTradableGoods:: ID_GREECE WINE SILK
SetResources:: ID_HUNGARY COPPER SILVER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_HUNGARY WINE
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ILE_DE_FRANCE SILK MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_IRELAND MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_JERUSALEM MERCENARIES OLIVEOIL
SetTradableGoods:: ID_KHAZAR WAX HONEY HIDES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_KIEV GRAIN
SetResources:: ID_LEON IRON FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LEON WOOL
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LITHUANIA WOOD BUTTER HIDES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LIVONIA WOOD BUTTER MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_LORRAINE POTTERY LINEN MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_MALTA MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_MERCIA WOOL
SetTradableGoods:: ID_MILAN SILK MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_MOLDAVIA GRAIN
SetResources:: ID_MOROCCO GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_MUSCOVY FURS LINEN
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NAPLES OLIVEOIL SILK MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NICAEA POTTERY
SetResources:: ID_NORMANDY FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NORMANDY LINEN
SetResources:: ID_NORTH_UMBRIA COPPER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NORTH_UMBRIA WOOL FISH MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NORWAY FISH FURS
SetTradableGoods:: ID_NOVGOROD FURS WOOD MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_PAPAL_STATES MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_POLAND SALT COPPER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_POLAND GRAIN LINEN
SetResources:: ID_POMERANIA SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_POMERANIA MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_PORTUGAL FOREST SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_PORTUGAL SPICES DYES MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_PROVENCE MERCENARIES WINE
SetTradableGoods:: ID_PRUSSIA GRAIN MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_RHODES MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_ROME MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_RYAZAN HIDES
SetResources:: ID_SARDINIA SILVER SALT
SetResources:: ID_SAXONY SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SAXONY GRAIN MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SCOTLAND MERCENARIES WOOL
SetResources:: ID_SERBIA GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SICILY SILK WINE MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_SILESIA GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SILESIA GLASSWARE MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SMOLENSK WOOD
SetResources:: ID_SWABIA SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SWABIA WINE COTTON MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_SWEDEN COPPER GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SWEDEN BUTTER WOOD MERCENARIES
SetResources:: ID_SWITZERLAND COPPER
SetTradableGoods:: ID_SWITZERLAND MERCENARIES WOOL
SetResources:: ID_SYRIA IRON
SetResources:: ID_TOULOUSE SALT
SetTradableGoods:: ID_TOULOUSE SILK
SetTradableGoods:: ID_TRIPOLI SUGAR
SetResources:: ID_TUNISIA GOLD
SetTradableGoods:: ID_TUSCANY WINE SILK MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_TYROLIA MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_VALENCIA SILK
SetTradableGoods:: ID_VENICE GLASSWARE SILK MERCENARIES
SetTradableGoods:: ID_VOLGA_BULGARIA FURS
SetTradableGoods:: ID_VOLHYNIA WOOD GRAIN
SetResources:: ID_WALES COPPER
SetResources:: ID_WESSEX FOREST
SetTradableGoods:: ID_WESSEX WOOL
Should be useful for this edition as well, it is quite accurate.
BTW FOREST resource meant colonists for the MTW edition.
Regards Cegorach/Hetman ~;)
I've done it already and Duke John answered this morning that it's YES. We can have our own sub-forum. :charge:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cegorach1
Regards
EC
Ok,Quote:
@Swordmaster
I believe we have 'urban' infantry - urban and town watch ( halberdiers and weak musketeers), but still it is good you have found thia unit.
Please add something more - as usual singular/plural/description/image stuff. And also - when were they used - I need this info for MTW edition.
"Alguacil" (single man)
"Alguaciles"( many of them).
They united with the local garrison and defeated the english in 1626 (?) when they tried to land in Cadiz.
They were more of a police force than proffessional soldiers, altho they were instructed and trained to fight fiercely individually as opposed to formations. They should have a "horde" type formation, and the officer should have a short staff (sign of his duty) and no "rodela".
Their stats should be similar to those of "rodeleros" only with less armour (armour 2 maybe) and less charge. Instead they would get one pistol shot.
"The alguaciles keep the order within a city. Hard as it is in Spain where every man that considers himself something carries a sword, these men are good individual fighters that know many tricks to win a fight in streets and dark alleys. They are organized in small mobile units to support each other and move swiftly through the urban labiryths."
Great work!Quote:
BTW You can expect Rocroi ( both sides) in P&M 1.0 or even in P&M 0.7 (soon).
Also: I though we could start developing and searching for info on officers, standard bearers and the like for the RTW version. But we need to redefine the stats, as the RTW stats are different from MTW. Specially the defensive ones.
BTW, Im I wrong or "Antioch" is a resource as well?
Regards
Hi there,
I was just wondering, which cities of Germany are you including? I mean the TYW was full of sieges and there is apparently a set limit of 200 provinces so I'm curious as to the choice of provinces/cities to include in your mod.
Thanks very much,
Clare
I need someone to convert the icons in MTW edition from BIFs to LBMs
( i.e. for battles). Anyone ?
Regards Cegorach/Hetman ~:)
Certainly Germany has to get many regions to resemble its complicated political structure. For now the following provinces are being considered:Quote:
Originally Posted by dclare4
province name - settlement name (pattern)
Duchy of Bavaria - Munich
Electorate of Brandenburg - Berlin
Duchy of Wurtemberg - Stuttgart
March of Baden - Baden *
Duchy of Brunswick - Brunswick
Duchy of Mecklenburg - Lubeck
Duchy of Schlezwig and Holstein - Kiln
Duchy of Pomerania - Stettin
Electorate of Saxony - Dresden
Upper Palatinate - Nuremberg
Lower Palatinate - Worms
Archbishopric of Cologne - Cologne
Archbishopric of Salzbourg - Salzbourg
Archbishopric of Treves - Treves
Bishopric of Wurzburg - Wurzburg
Bishopric of Liege - Liege
Bishopric of Munster - Munster
Bishopric of Bremen - Bremen
Alsace - Stasbourg
Archduchy of Austria - Vienna
Kingdom of Bohemia - Prague
March of Moravia - Brno
County of Tyrolia - Tridont
Duchy of Styria - Graz
County of Hesse - Cassel
Duchy of Carinthia - Klagenfurt
Duchy of Carniola - Lublyana **
Duchy of Lorraine - Nancy
Royal Hungary - Presburg
Switzerland - Bern
Silesia - Breslau
* - probably will end up merged with Wurtemberg as Baden-Wurtemberg
** - other option is to merge it with Carinthia as Carinthia-Carniola
As you can see there will be plenty of German regions. Still, post your ideas and corrections whenever you see them appropriate. I'd hope some German folks to take a look on the list and say what they think about it etc..
Last few days I've been busy with my job and Christmas-fever-connected matters. Now I got a few days off work so I should be able to do something.
Regards,
EC
Hey there,
I'm sorry for my absence, but, as i said before, my computer has had some hardware problems. I haven't been able to work on the template site, since Dreamweaver refuses to run :dizzy2: .
Essencially all i wanted was to tell you that i'm not dead and i havne't forgot this mod. I promised a website, so i'll do it.
Soon i will be able to work on it again.
What about the The Portuguese? Are you adopting the patch system? If you are (and it seems you do) i still have a lot of info that i said i would give.
And i have a question. You plan to use only one Portuguese province?
Cya gentlemen, ~:cheers:
portugal was not a major european player at this time. portugal was also much more involved in the rest of the world, and for quite some time during the 16th centuary i believe) was politically united with spain. saxony or genoa is in my opinion the best choice , putting france in the egyptian spot and genoa and venice in the carthaginian slots
That would make the patch idea impossible. I would like to see Genoa in too tho. Genoa might be considered as another candidate for a patch. But before any patch can be made there's a lot of things to do. So for now we have that patch idea, and this is the limitation to be accepted as it gives many possibilities. All in all there will be different versions of this mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by elbanobaron
I was also thinking that each version (with different patched faction) should start at different date. For example Portuguese version would be the early one (at the end of 15th c.), while the one with Saxony could start like in early 1600s or something. This would make each version kinda unique and also more appropriate (different countries were important in different times). What do you think people?
Regards
EC
I was just curious how you plan to budget the 200 cities per faction/region. Like if there are a lot for Germany how many will the others be getting?
Thanks,
Clare
How many installations would we need?Quote:
while the one with Saxony could start like in early 1600s or something. This would make each version kinda unique and also more appropriate (different countries were important in different times). What do you think people?
The versions starting later would have a much shorter timeframe to play.
what we could do is make different campaigns with different factions.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
It yet has to be balanced, but there will be enough provinces for all factions. The number of provinces doesn't always have to be an advantage btw. Bordering with many neighbors means many potential enemies. I'm now putting the campaign file together and editing the map and I'm done with certain areas, like Germany for example. What turns out (after I distributed the regions) is that HRE would control 5 to 10 regions depending on the start date, Electoral States (catholic states) would get about 8, Brandenburg probably 2, and the rest (10 or more) would end up rebel. Still, the shere numbers mean little and following Sun Tzu I could say that in war, numbers alone confer no advantage. And so the aim is to reflect that in mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by dclare4
What at this point I personally could say about the general faction-regions ratio is that a faction controlling more than 10 regions should be considered a powerfull one. A faction controlling less than 5 regions would be a minor one. At the same time one has to take into consideration that a 10 province country doesn't have to be all that strong if it has 3 or 4 neighbors who are stronger or even of the same capability.
Regards
EC
True, but when you think about it, a timeframe 1480-1700 means 440 turns. This is a lot. Campaigns starting at later dates would still be long enough to develop, certainly at least twice as long as in MTW version of the mod. Obviously, winning the game as the Dutch and as the Spanish are two completely different stories and would take different amount of time to be completed, but that's something normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Personally I think the approach to the issue how many turns is good and how many is not so good is a very personal matter. For me 200 turns means too much, for somebody else 300 is little and so on. Different campaigns starting at different dates and so lasting different number of turns mean variety (for various playing tastes as I believe).
Regards
EC
Swedish maps. (in Swedish)Quote:
I've added the part of the map requested before, that is all the way north further than where Baltic Sea ends. So going on foot from Finland to Sweden is no problem. I have a few questions to our community connected with it:
- should Norway be spit, and if yes where
- how to divide Sweden into regions (their names and names of capitals)
The weird colourations in the begining of out time period is because of an official union (Sweden was quite independant most of the time though) that officially ended 1521.
How many provinces for Sweden-Finland are we talking about here? 2, 5 10?
I can atleast say for the 2 scenario (way too few imao) the capitals should be todays Stockholm and Turku (Åbo at the time). The conquered areas outside Sweden has thier own provinces.
One map works to see 5 provinces (the 6:st was practically wasteland city- wise although trade with the sames was going one there).
maps
It's the one with this info
Main Author: Homann's Heirs
Title/Description: Scandinavia Complectens Sveciae, Daniae et Norvegiae
Publication Info: Nuremburg, 1776
Date: 1776
Scale: 1:4,435,000
Remind you that this one is later than our time period so the borders are a little bit of (and some of the geography ~D ). Svealand got Värmland and Gästrikland included. You can see the areas at this link
Svenska landskap
The south part of Sweden is called Götaland, capital Jönköping or Kalmar. The middle part is called Svealand, capital Stockholm. The Northern part is called Norrland with the capital Hudiksvall. The Northern inland part is called Lappmark, capital possibly Lycksele. If this part is almost non-existant on your map, then remove it.
The Finnish parts I'm uncertain of, but the capital for the smaller part is Åbo (aka Turku, use Åbo in the game). For the bigger part it's either Viborg (as I said, the borders are a little bit of, it's in Russia now and at that map) Helsingfors (aka Helsinki use Helsingfors) or Tavestehus.
Can you make fortresses? Viborg and current Gothenburg (Göteborg, known then as Älvsborgs fortress) was two very important border fortresses for the Swedes but not big enough city-wise at the time.
It's a problem here with huge provinces though, but I'm not sure how much I can improve it without more provinces. Ten for Sweden-Finland would be nice ~D . Remind you that they would on average be poorer that the average province, so it isn't the riches that is the problem, but the amount left for the rest of the nations.
The Dannish possetions in todays Sweden should be a province with Lund as the capital (Malmö works to) to show the problem and wars Sweden and Denmark had over that area. I'm guessing it would be easiest to call it Skåne because it was most of the region and the most important part of it.
Norway should probably get splitted in two, three pieces. I'm not sure how, but the main cities was Trondheim, Bergen, Oslo and Stavanger.
Thats actually one issue I have with the current limit of 200 provinces. Some locations were key fortresses but not necessarily cities of importance -Kolberg, Bergen-Op-Zoom, Phillipsburg for example. In the mod I'm doing I'm torn between including these key fortresses or saving the provinces for a major city. Thats why I'm interested to know how you're parcelling out the provinces for this splendid mod.
best regards,
Clare
Just include those fortresses as forts.
Hello everyone in the new year 2005! ~:cheers:
Something like 10 I believe. Thank you for all those sources btw. The scandinavian provinces I think could be included are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
-Denmark(Kopenhagen)
-Skane(Malmo)
-Ostlandet(Oslo)
-Bergenshus(Bergen)
-Trondelag(Thondheim)*
-Jamtland&Harjedalen(?)*
-Smaland(Kalmar)
-Gotaland(Goteborg)
-Svealand(Stockholm)
-Vasterbotten(Lulea)
-Osterbotten(Uleaborg)
-Finland(Abo)
* - should they be merged as one region?
I also thought that Orebro could get a region, but how to name it?
So for all scandinavia that would be it, but don't forget that Sweden would periodically own not only scandinavian regions like Estonia(Revel), Livonia(Riga), Ingria(Nyen), Kexholm(Kexholm) and some more in Germany past the 30 years war.
Anyway I bought recently a historical atlas which is of great assistance to me, so there are not going to be many calls from me on what regions where etc.. At the moment I'm busy with France and Western Europe.
I agree with SwordsMaster. Generally I think settlements should represent regions' actual capitals rather than key fortresses. Good luck with your mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by dclare4
Regards
EC
Sounds good, except you seem to have missed southern Norrland.Quote:
Something like 10 I believe. Thank you for all those sources btw. The scandinavian provinces I think could be included are:
-Denmark(Kopenhagen)
-Skane(Malmo)
-Ostlandet(Oslo)
-Bergenshus(Bergen)
-Trondelag(Thondheim)*
-Jamtland&Harjedalen(?)*
-Smaland(Kalmar)
-Gotaland(Goteborg)
-Svealand(Stockholm)
-Vasterbotten(Lulea)
-Osterbotten(Uleaborg)
-Finland(Abo)
* - should they be merged as one region?
I also thought that Orebro could get a region, but how to name it?
Those two you ask for merging could be merged although I would recommend them separated with Brunflo as the capital for Jämtland&Härjedalen. It gives a little bit more flexibility up north.
And whatever you do, keep Luleå as the capital for Västerbotten. :happy: It's a good choice and my home city. ~D Got in a very good mood when I saw that. :grin2:
Link to an English page for the parts of Sweden, one map did I link to before, but to the page I didn't.
Link
For Örebro I'm uncertain, Närke is the province, but it's quite small. Perhaps merging it with a neighboring province, but I got no idea for a good name then. Perhaps using the map for the counties (län), but using the name for the province (landskap) could be possible for Örebro and Jämtland&Härjedalen, although slightly incorrect.
Oh, and the conversion of å,ä,ö to a,a,o is entirely acceptable, even though the pronunciation gets wrong. We're used to it. ~;)
I´m just thinking. There are 10 provinces in Scandinavia. So Western Europe will be a nightmare. Because the north is relatively spaced and has a small population. All those German states, plus detailed Habsburg empire, plus detailed Flanders and France will make it almost impossible to conquer Everything, and the 50 province limit is going to be achieved with a very small territory.
Besides, what about the resources in each province?
Well, you say it will be a nightmare, and I think it will depend on which faction you play. Conquering everything with the Dutch will be a nightmare for sure, but take the Ottomans and it's a different thing then. The 50 province victory condition is no problem, you don't have to obey this rule after all. The provincial triumph value will have to be properly reduced I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
And about the resources, I'm not yet touching that as the entire region arrangement is not ready yet.
Ha ha, I can imagine! ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
Regards
EC
Reduced? You mean increased surely. Because, if the provinces are smaller, everyone will start with more provinces, so it will take less to get to the limit.Quote:
The 50 province victory condition is no problem, you don't have to obey this rule after all. The provincial triumph value will have to be properly reduced I think.
EDIT: I just thought about this: How is the marriage going to work in this mod? the generals at this time are in most cases NOT related, so it loses its main function.
I have to say this is the most promising looking mod in development at the current time, you all doing a great job of putting this whole thing together. That said, do you have an estimated release date for it? Anyhow keep up the great work and Im greatly anticipating the release! Any further interesting info you might have, please mail me at james_vee13@hotmail.com
Well, reduce is what I meant. It is so because as there will be more provinces in our mod compared to vanilla RTW, then I think it would be sensible to reduce the importance (triumph point value) of most regions eg.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
vanilla region x has a triumph value 3, and on our map it is divided into three regions each with a triump point 1 (more if it was some particularly important region). This, however, does not mean 90 percent of regions will be of triumph value 1. That was just an example. I hope that now you know what I mean.
It's RTW mod and so generals have to be in some way related to the royal family. It's something we have to live with. All we can do is to decide to whom particularly they are connected and how (marriage or adoption). But the trick with adoption is that in game an event that you can adopt sb can be changed to sth like "you can promote sb". Still, the characters will appear in the family tree as relatives of royals. For now I can't think of any way to change this thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Thanks a lot for the kind words Iron-Chef! ~D There is no estimated release date, but I believe it will take some months. It's a big project and to do it right will take a lot of time. As for mailing the news to you - I don't think so buddy. If you want to know what's new - view this thread from time to time. I, personally am not going to mail people who wait for this mod and send them news. I find it strange you asked that. But perhaps there is someone else who wants to help you on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron-Chef
Regards
EC
See, what I thought about is, changing the daughters AND the adoptions to promotions. Instead of having "do you want this man to marry your daughter?" you´ll get "this man has showed some skill, do you want to promote him to ?"Quote:
It's RTW mod and so generals have to be in some way related to the royal family. It's something we have to live with. All we can do is to decide to whom particularly they are connected and how (marriage or adoption). But the trick with adoption is that in game an event that you can adopt sb can be changed to sth like "you can promote sb". Still, the characters will appear in the family tree as relatives of royals. For now I can't think of any way to change this thing.
Princesses are not used as in MTW anymore, so there isnt much point in keeping them.
I´m just brainstorming here, I don´t even know if this is doable.
Another question: Is it possible to make a unit "cause fear" to all units enemies and friends alike in a certain area around the unit?
That could lead to some interesting combinations.
Regards.
Well, changing the women into anything else would cause some funny results IMHO. Just think, how would it look like if two men had children together. And not adopted, but of their own. Besides, I don't think we can get rid of women and replace them with male general characters. I would expect this element of the game to be hardcoded, but I'm not certain whether it really is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
What I think can be done in this matter is ... hmm ... what would you say about changing female names to titles (like office titles etc) and changing their potraits for some symbolic representation of office/rank/etc. Alteration of marriage text would be needed to (sth like "a suitable candidate for an office"). Well, I know that such titles would really mean nothing, but that seems more interesting to me, and most of all it is doable. Another problem would be that those titles would born :dizzy2: and there would have to be messages saying sth on such occassions (but what? maybe sth like "a following office/title has become vacant"?). Well, the fact titles would age is puzzling too.
Okay, it's not the best idea I've ever had, but perhaps somebody can help to make sth usable out of it, or has anybody got any other ideas as to the female characters role in this mod?
Regards
EC
Quote:
What I think can be done in this matter is ... hmm ... what would you say about changing female names to titles (like office titles etc) and changing their potraits for some symbolic representation of office/rank/etc. Alteration of marriage text would be needed to (sth like "a suitable candidate for an office"). Well, I know that such titles would really mean nothing, but that seems more interesting to me, and most of all it is doable. Another problem would be that those titles would born and there would have to be messages saying sth on such occassions (but what? maybe sth like "a following office/title has become vacant"?). Well, the fact titles would age is puzzling too.
Exactly my point. ~;)
The screens for "your wife gave light to a daughter" could be changed to something like "Your parliament started discussing the creation of a new title".
Or maybe just hide the message so that it doesnt appear at all...
The age of the title could be hidden as well.
When the title "died", a message like "this title is now vacant" and the same title could be resigned to a next genereation.
Of course if it is possible to do such thing at all.
read this one I think it might come handy. Thanks to Myrdaal for this find.
Another suggestion here: Allow the heavy pike infantry to form phalanx. Without shields, i will be just the best anti-cavalry formation. And it will look quite appropriate. Accounts of spanish battles against Dutch cavalry said that a formation quite similar to phalanx was used to stop cavalry charges.
As you said, it might. Honestly, I now see no use for this. I mean it's an interesting find and all, but the functionality of it for our mod is not clear to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Good idea. I also think the phalanx formation is a proper one for some pike units we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
BTW, can anyone have a look into names? I don't mean here the name lists, as they have been already made for MTW version of this mod, and hence will only have to be revised. I mean the faction-names relations. I think it would be good if sb took a look at that as there seems to me to be some kind of problem there. Well, perhaps I simply haven't examined the issue well enough, but for me it seems that cultures share a number of names (characters names).
Regards
EC
Pure aesthetics.Quote:
As you said, it might. Honestly, I now see no use for this. I mean it's an interesting find and all, but the functionality of it for our mod is not clear to me.
NAmes, well, its normal that some cultures share names. I mean, the cossacks are surely going to have a few Polish and Russian names in the list. Same for other factions that shared some territories.
Ok, but think about 'roman' factions (HRE, Spain, Pope, Electoral States) they IMHO should not share names, the same goes for 'barbarian' that is protestant factions. Could you, or anyone else having some spare time, look into it. I mean you would have to test if each and every faction can have a completely separate name list. As I said before, I'm not sure if sharing names within one culture is hardcoded, or can we get over it. Comming back to your Cossack example, think about what happens if Cossacks get Hungarian names too, as they would if the names depend on culture and not only on faction. This whole naming issue can be a pain, that's why it needs to be tested. If theres nobody up to the task, I can do it myself, only that not very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Regards
EC
Ok, got you. ~:cheers:
I´ll try and have a look. Which are the names files?
Nevermind, found that.
Thats on the top of the descr_names.txtQuote:
Names Database Entries:
Holds non-localised Latin names for settlements and characters. These are arranged on a per faction basis.
Entries are specified by the following syntax:
;;
;; faction:
;; settlements
;;
;; characters
;;
;;
;; faction ... etc
I actually found difference betwen the brutii and the julii, so thats ok.
NEWS
I want to announce that eastern european mod 'Ogniem i Mieczem TW' is officially our 'friendly mod' and we will support their efforts in future. More details in our sub-forum later.
It means also that they will help us in our efforts - especially by preparing new models/skins etc.
I will coordinate this efforts before they will introduce themselves in our sub-forum.
Swordmaster tracked down and I asked him and YES Sundjata Keita will join our efforts.
It means that his abandoned African TW will be assimilated by our mod to some degree - rather only with new units added to our roster.
He is a skilled skinner and will prepare some units for us.
I am discussing the question what he wants to prepare now.
@EC
Pytales TosaInu ?
Regards Cegorach :charge:
Could you post a link to the "With Fire and sword"(is that right?) MOD development forum?
Gentlemen,
Ive restarted my work on the website, and it is almost finished (except for a few small things that i still have to discuss with cegorach). If all goes well i can have it ready during the next week.
This is just a page template, we still require a top logo with 967x102, im not a skilled graphical artist so im not able to do one.
Check the template here: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/the_dementor/pm/index.htm
Im happy to know that we're going to have our sub-forum at last. That way we can separate the many discussions related to the mod ~:) .
Well my part as a Portuguese Historician is not yet finished i think, if it is still being included in the mod i still can help you, even with maps and historical battles.
Cheers, ~:cheers:
Hi, Sundjata Keita here
I am just confirming as Cegorach1 said that I am going to be doing some work for this mod. I have just emailed Cegorach with a small list of units that I feel would be appropriate and I will let him post up the list once he has checked it.
He also mentioned that EC might want to know what resources were found in Northern Africa, if you want it really realistic tell me which provinces you are going to put in Northern Africa and I will give you the relative resources, otherwise I will give you a rough idea of what can be found and you can add them as the game balances out.
Some common resources found in northern Africa at the time were
-cattle
-slaves
-salt
-gold
-spices
-camels
-ivory
I don't know what resources you are going to include but most of the above will fit well enough into North Africa ~:cheers:
Welcome m8 ~:cheers:
Maybe you could also try to have a look at the kingdom of Fez, I had no luck with any sources.
Why don´t you also make a list of the provinces you think are appropiate for N.Africa?
I thought Fez was a city in Morocco originating from fezza.
Anyway I was looking at some maps in a book I have for northern Africa in this period. I found a copy of Johannes Shnitzer's map of the world based on Ptolemy's ideas from 1482 (pretty close to the starting date huh ~D ) but this is hard to read off. I have several other copies of maps from the 1600's which are far more readable so I have incorparated ideas from both. Unfortunately I can't tell if these maps are referring to cities or regions or lakes etc. so some of them might be wrong but anyway the regions I propose are :-
- Fezza (Morocco)
- Barbaria (most of Algeria and some of libya)
- Getulia (Tunisia)
- Berdoa (other parts of Libya)
- Barca Defertum (bit of Libya and a bit of Egypt)
- Eleocar (the rest of Egypt)
I can add more to this list or take some away depending on how many regions you want
Fez was a kingdom in Morocco. It occupied most of today´s Morocco.
Here is my proposal for Regions:
Tanger (Tangiers)
Fez
Orania
Berberia
Tunisia (I dont really know if in the XVI cent it was called Tunisia or Gaetulia)
~DQuote:
Berdoa (other parts of Libya)
Barca Defertum (bit of Libya and a bit of Egypt)
Eleocar (the rest of Egypt)
Alexandria
That´ll give it a bit more of flexibility.
Tanger is a city
Fez is a city (the region around it is called Fezza)
Orania is a city in south africa
I have just noticed Barbaria was not formed until the dutch made maps in the 1600's before then it was all part of Getulia (gaetulia is latin I think)
:dizzy2:
Well anyway I have made a new list base on a slightly later map but with clear region defenitions on :-
- Fezza
- Getulia
- Beledulgerid
- Barca Defertum (meaning the desert of Barca)
- Then either Eleocar or Sahid (both deserts)
- Guatala*
* optional
Once this list is finalised I will try to make some kind of diagram to show you the regions, I don't have a scanner so I can't scan the map in.
How many regions do you want anyway because at the moment these will be huge regions. If you need more I suggest
Berdoa
Gaogareg
Numidia
Zanhaga
I will then look at finding some city names. I know Fez was in Fezza but other than that I will need a magnifying glass on this crazy map to look at these names. :book:
I know Tanger is a city, but there have been numerous wars for Tanger between Spain, Portugal and the kingdom of Fez and Algiers so I think it is kinda important. Same thing for Oran (Algiers).Quote:
Tanger is a city
Fez is a city (the region around it is called Fezza)
Orania is a city in south africa
Fez is a city and a kingdom, but if you think it is ore accurate Fezza, I´ll agree with you.
Alexandria is another city, but it was of importance as trading center and its dominant position over the entrance of the Nile.
Anyway, It would be nice to see a sketch map of how this is actually going to look. IMHO we need 3-4 regions MORE than the original RTW, first to reflect the increased complexity of politics and military conquest in this age, and secondly because the "western" N. Africa had its provinces too huge.
Lets see what the other people says as well. I don´t really know how many provinces have we got already, but adding another few shouldn´t be a problem.
O.K. I have done a quick sketch map of the regions in North Afrcia, do any more need adding?
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/5169/north...onscopy2bj.png
The cities so far will be :-
Fezza - Fez
Getulia - Alger
Zanhaga - Nouadhibou
Gualata - Arguin
Biledulgerid - Tamanrasset
Berdoa - Tripoli
Barca - Darnah
Eleocar - Alexandria
Sahid- Cairo?
Nubia - Khartoum
Borno - Mao
Gaoga - Aozou
Libya Interior - Tombouctou (Timbuktu)
Numidia - Taoudenni
Sorry about by bad drawing and just for the record it's Gualata not Guatala like I have spelt it on the map.
nice. I think Getulia and Numidia should be split If that is possible.
Is the map covering all the way up to the Red sea? or just to the Nile?
I added three more provinces onto the map and have put on where each city goes. The map goes all the way to the red sea. I added on where the nile goes roughly. Also I corrected the Gualata mis-spelling
http://img31.exs.cx/img31/7544/north...onscopy8is.png
The new and changed cities are:-
Telesin - Alger
Getulia - Rusicade (now known as Skikda)
Targa - Arlit
Numidia - Kidal
Zuenziga - Taoudenni
Zanhaga - Port Etienne (now known as Nouadhibou)
Gualata - Kiffa
Hi, I was away for the last two days. See you're all busy here. Good! ~:cheers:
Greetings and Welcome Sundjata Keita! ~:cheers:
Very good. That makes the names issue clear as to faction specific names, but... what I think still we have to examine here, is how to make captains use the surnames rather than the first names. Well, we could swap the surnames and the first names, but then we'd get akward names for named characters, AND obviously a name (eg. Charles) would become a family name. :dizzy2: Or is there any other way to make captains use the surnames? Anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Yes, I have, but he haven't answered me yet. I was absent for the last two days so perhaps so was he. I don't know. The Duke said all I had to do was to talk to Tosa, like that's just to execute the decision of our subforum being established. I'm sure Tosa will answer soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cegorach1
Very good to 'hear' (see) this! ~:cheers: The template looks good. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Count, tHe dEmEnToR
Good, but have in mind there can't be that much of Africa in this mod as on your sketch map. We sadly can't have any more factions, and making all those African regions rebel seems generally not the best idea to me. My personal view (based on maps I have) on African regions is that (considering what factions we have and what wars they would/should conduct) there would be a few large regions: Egypt (Cairo), Barca (Benghazi), Tripolitania (Tripoli), Tunisia (Tunis), Algeria (Alger), Fezza/Morocco (Fez) and a number of coastal city provinces like Tanger, Orania and some other. I would see Sahara as unconquerable rebel region (neither the Spanish nor the Ottomans have subjugaded it). Sahara could, on the other hand, be a source of some unique mercenary units. As for the big provinces being so few, that's what my map says (Ottoman empire XVI-XVII) and it wouldn't be very gameplay wise to give the Ottomans some 15 regions in Africa alone, as they're going to have some 20-25 in Asian and European parts together. They will have to be powerful, but we have to be careful as not to overpower them too much. Their only major war theatre will be in Europe anyway, consider this. We can revise your region list, what would you suggest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
A major map update is comming soon, I'm just now after the journey and too tired to finish the remeining part of what I will show.
Regards
EC
Well thanks, its actually the first review on it heh. ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastside Character
Regards, :charge:
Well, its been a long time since I last played RTW, but I think they are using surnames already, aren´t they? If they are, there´s nothing to worry about.Quote:
Very good. That makes the names issue clear as to faction specific names, but... what I think still we have to examine here, is how to make captains use the surnames rather than the first names. Well, we could swap the surnames and the first names, but then we'd get akward names for named characters, AND obviously a name (eg. Charles) would become a family name. Or is there any other way to make captains use the surnames? Anyone?
If they are not, we´ll have to make up a list of names usable as surnames as well or something like that. ~D Don´t know really...
BTW, I also think that the map is a bit too far south. Specially considering that we´ve added a few northern provinces as well....
I think that it should end approx at the line going east from Port Etienne
I have made Africa more boring as requested so here it is
http://img47.exs.cx/img47/2695/north...bbishcopy8.png
The cities are
Fezza - Fez
Zanhaga - Port Etienne
Telesin - Alger
Getulia - Rusicade
Biledulgerid - Arlit
Berdoa - Tripoli
Barca - Darnah
Egypt - Cairo
Great m8!
Sorry to be nitpicking again, but now we are left with very little provinces IMO. So is it possible to split Egypt and Getulia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Here it is -
http://twow.majordomo.ru/forum/index...c=1085&st=705&
Cegorach ~;)
@Sundjata Keita
I didn't get anything. My e-mail is cegorach77@o2.pl - pleas send it again.
@EC
That is good. I am also waiting.
Cegorach :charge:
:furious: :furious2: :stare: :veryangry2: :wreck: :wacky: :veryangry: :mad: :angry:................. :barrel:
What do you mean you didn't get the email?????????
I did not save that email and it was quite long and had good information in, are you sure you didn't get it. It had pictures and everything.
I'm sure I sent it to that adress cos I followed the link from your pm.
Oh well I guess I will have to write another unit list, maybee I'll post it on here as well just so you don't lose it. ~;)
Hey I just thought, I used outlook so doesn't that save a draft somewhere? Anyone know where to retreive it from?
:joker: :beam: :grin: :cheesy: :grin2: :grin3: :happy: :sunny: :laugh3: :happy2:.......... :barrel:
Never mind about that, it did save a copy of the email I sent, have resent it and here are the units I think should make it into the game
Mamluk Egyptian Psiloi (skirmishers/light infantry)
Berber Crossbowmen
Ashirs
Royal Mamluks (imperial guard)
Saharan Cavalry
Bedouin Camel Warriors
Jezzail Camelry (berber camels with gun attatched to side)
Merenid Murabitins (javilineers)
Merenid Militia (heavy infantry)
Ta'ifait Al Ru'sa
Cimaroons
Pirates with muskets (I don't know the proper name)
African/pirate artillery crew (these are just at the end of your period I think)
Pirates??? you may be thinking, but pirates or some type of pirate rebels controlled Morroco and Tunisia through most of your period. Cimaroons are rebel native africans who attacked Portuguese and Spanish ships and built up strong defensive ports through the late part of the period. The artillery they got from trading with the protugeese and the Spanish when they built up Morocco economically (1492) - Having just defeated the African Moors and won back Granada and captured Morocco (1492). The Spanish lost it again a bit later.
@ Swords Master
As EC said it would be unwise to create too many provinces in Northern Africa as they would all be rebel states (well Moorish actually but you have way too many factions to include as it is)
Map update. Post your suggestions for changes.
Just as a side note, I've roughly arranged some other parts of the map and I'm working on them. In the latest screens there are still no forest areas, they will be added as some of the last features of the map. The region ownership is not correct. It's a test map and so it doesn't represent any particular P&M campaign.
I was also thinking that some regions could be made unconquerable. Now I can think of Sahara and Switzerland as appropriate for such treatment. They could produce local mercenary units, but I think it would be more interesting and gameplay wise to let them be rebel states permanently. What would you say?
Regards
EC
The maps looking great!
Wow that's a lot of cities right by each other, are you going to restrict how far units can move?
I can't see the last two pictures, I think it's something to do with the data transfer amount, it says it will refresh in an hour.
I don't know about unconquerable regions as this would restrict the freedom the player has. They would be like enemy spawn points you can't destroy. Maybee you could seige the city and when you win you have to leave but you can still plunder from them and so stop the amount of rebels being produced for a few turns. Whatever seems realistic
Is my latest Africa map okay? It doesn't have too many regions and has cut off most of Africa.
By the way if your thinking about who owns what, the Moors owned Granada until 1492 so it should start as a rebel city with some African units in.
Thanx! ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
It will certainly be considered I think. Many cities in Germany are very close I admit, but there are several long rivers (Rhine, Elbe, Oder) making conquest of Germany relatively troublesome. Many cities are located next to the bridges, making it impossible for an enemy army to pass a river without conquering a city. Most of the cities will be strongly fortified and hard to get. There will have to be many bloody assaults, wonderfully resembling the peculiarity of the military conflicts within the HRE boundaries. :duel: ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
I've just check and all the screens were visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
Such unconquerable regions can have isolated capitals and so they wouldn't produce nothing but mercenaries for a player. A player could still place a fort in such a region. This, I think, would change the strategic value of those unconquerable states - they would be the only permanent neutral regions. Switzerland was neutral, Sahara was a free land of nomadic tribes, or rather a no mans land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
Genarally, it is OK. Soon I'll show some African (map) screenshots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
The whole ownership issue is not yet of my interest. The ownership you see in my screens is more of a placeholder. That's why I don't show what's the year in my screens...
Regards
EC
Great work EC!
A few comments on Spain:
Add a new procince: Cadiz. Move Seville one or 2 tiles up, maybe cutting some space off Madrid. (I think Madrid is too big IMO).
Consider adding Valladolid as well. I don´t know if that would be too much, but I think it should be ok.
Also, Madrid has a LOT of mountains north of the city Granada itself is 2000m above sea level. I don´t know if you edited the geography yet...
Consider it done. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
[QUOTE=Sundjata Keita]:joker: :beam: :grin: :cheesy: :grin2: :grin3: :happy: :sunny: :laugh3: :happy2:.......... :barrel:
Never mind about that, it did save a copy of the email I sent, have resent it and here are the units I think should make it into the game
Still nothing... Use this e-mail cegorach77@o2.pl ~:confused:
Minor spelling nitpicks: It's 'Santiago' not 'Santiango'. Palma should be moved a tile to south-west, look at any map of Mallorca. If you're using 'Krakow' and 'Poznan', use 'Warszawa' instead of Warsaw. I don't see if there is one, but if there isn't, there should be a bridge on Oder next to Breslau.
Thanks for your corrections eadingas. A wandering historian, huh? :book: Why don't you pop in here more often and see if things are fine then. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by eadingas
As the map is being made and it is more sooner than later it will be done, lets brainstorm what trading goods can we have in our mod guys? And what about resources? Any ideas in what to mod them? I mean should there be slaves as a resource for that instance? :dizzy2:
Would we want to make forts more permanent and fortified?
Regards
EC
Is it possible?Quote:
Would we want to make forts more permanent and fortified?
On a more detailed note:
How many resources per province are we looking at? Are we going to place the american imports as resources in their european receivers? I mean such things as cacao or tobacco.
IMO, slaves should NOT be a permanent resource, and maybe could be renamed to "war prisoners" for that matter.
Now, as for Valladolid and Cadiz:
Valladolid: lightly fortified, mainly agricultural production,
Province name: Valladolid. (I don´t really think Castilla la Vieja would be appropriate as it would include Leon as well. In the other hand Leon will be Leon, so it might be reasonable.)
Cadiz: HUGE imports from America. Own production lower than Seville, main product: wine. Powerful fortress.
As a side historical note: From the XVI to the late XVIII cent, Cadiz was the first (and only) port in mainland spain where the american ships were allowed to stop. until approximately the end of the XVII century, the ships would follow up the Guadalquivir to Seville, where the gold and silver would be taxed and stored. But the stop in Cadiz was mandatory. That is one of the reasons Cadiz was so tempting. When an american convoy was inside the port, the amount of gold and silver in the city was uncomparable to any other city in Europe.
That said, Seville was the biggest city in Spain at the period.
There should be fewer resource per region than in vanilla RTW I think; 2 being the medium and most common number. I believe that smaller provinces (like German states) would have less trading goods than some large ones (like Egypt for example), we should also vary the agricultural output of course. All this is a matter of game balance and I assume we'll be working on it A LOT. For what can I say about some regions owned and around Poland is that they provided such tradable goods as:Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
-grain,
-wood,
-cattle,
-horses,
-furs,
-amber,
-salt,
-silver,
-copper,
-iron,
-weapons and armor, (german states)
what other resources would probably be in game:
-gold,
-wine,
??????? you name it
Post your ideas for tradable goods/resources alike.
Regards
EC
I think you should include imports as resources as this is possibly the only way of doing it. Some of these could be :-
-spices
-clothing
-silk (unless this goes in the clothing resource)
-cotton (unless this goes in the clothing resource)
-fish eg. cod (Bordeaux and Nantes were fishing ports in the 16th century)
-logwood
-tobacco
You have Persia in the map right?
So then there was
-Japanese copper went to Persia
-Carpets (these went back to Japan and China)
Thats all I've got I'm afraid
Gentlemen,
I am glad to announce that our official website is ready :balloon2: :balloon2:
http://www.pikeandmusket.cjb.net
Even tought it still may suffer some changes, it is pretty much ready to receive visitors.
~:cheers:
Well, thats pretty much all i have to say...
Another idea for a resource would have to be slaves, I know that these may be aquired by forcing a captured settlment into slavery so it couldnt be so hard to have slaves imported from Africa etc, I know that the Spanish utilized slave labour on their sugar plantations (another key import from European colonies in the Americas) in the New World, mainly in Cuba in this period.
Can I be added to the "TEAM" list on the website? ~D
I am the modeller for this mod (I think) and am hopefully going to get some units to do from cegorach1 soon.
When is the forum going to be up on the website?
The whole team setup you see on that site is generally a mtw version development team. Sure, you should be included SK.
Ok, this is going to be the list of resources for Spain. I´ll start with Iberia, and will edit the post to add other european territories as I research them.
-Iron and weapons: weapons were produced where ron was freely available.
Mainly 2 places: Toledo and Vizcaya (Madrid and Navarre in the current map).
-Wool (clothes). Leon, Castilla.
-Silk: Granada
-Mercurium (mercury): Leon. To the sceptics, this product was already mined by the romans and was considered VERY valuable. Although maybe for game purposes we could substitute it with say silver.
-Seville: american imports: gold, silver, cacao, tobacco, sugar. This should be one of the richest provinces in the game.
-Cadiz: Wine, agriculture, salt.
-Barcelona: wood, mediterranean imports, agricultural production, clothes.
-Valencia: fruits, wine, salt, silver. (Cartagena).
-Balearic islands: wine, fish.
-Santiago: fish, wood.
all for now.
I'm sorry if you are not in the list. That team was the team of the mtw version.
I'll talk to cegorach.
What, no sugar ~:eek: This was a very important import from the New World to Spain, certainly more so than potatoes...... :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron-Chef
well, IMHO potatoes were more important than sugar, specially because sugar was also produced in europe. And besides, I don´t know how many resources are going to be placed in Seville. If I add another couple, it could probably unbalance economy too much. Consider also that trade will be improved by building upgrades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron-Chef
Actually, there were almost no slaves in mainland Spain in the whole spanish history. plantations were the only place where slave labour was employed.
I hate to push my idea too hard but you seem to be underestimating the importance of sugar, not only to the Spanish economy but to European diplomatic relations! It is a documented fact that the British monarchs were so keen on sugar that war with the Spanish was avoided on several occasions due to the blackmailing properties of cutting off the sugar trade to England, and sugar,at least cane sugar was NOT grown in Europe as it was native to the New World and could not be grown in the temperate climate of Europe, although beet sugar is another story.... I can see Im getting to sidetracked here but just setting some things right :book:
I have to agree with Iron-Chef here, pototoes were not very important at all in Spain when they first arrived.The Spanish put it to very limited use. In the Spanish Colonies potatoes were considered food for the underclasses; when brought to the Old World they would be used primarily to feed hospital inmates. This was because the potatoes then were not stored properly and turned green, this green was solanine and made the potatoes taste bitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Also potatoes could not be used for trade as it was not until 1780 that any other European country accepted them, namely Ireland. You've probably heard of the Irish potato famine. It wasn't until the 1840's that they spread to places like North America and mainland Europe (although France got there a little earlier). :book:
Don't know anything about sugar apart from it was a tradable resource.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count, tHe dEmEnToR
Exactly. I will send you revised list of the team members and supporters. ~:)
BTW, the sugar was NOT produced in Europe until XIXth century, when white beets processing was invented.
http://www.monitorsugar.com/htmtext/HISTORY.htm