Howabout the Jedi/Sith Force? Can you disprove that?Quote:
Originally Posted by King Malcolm
Printable View
Howabout the Jedi/Sith Force? Can you disprove that?Quote:
Originally Posted by King Malcolm
Hey, I burned at least a dozen popes, and countless kings. Can I be recruited?Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry V
-----------------------------------
Back on topic: No, I don't believe in any gods until I actually see their power.
Exist - they do. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
I agree that nobody can proove that there is or there is not a god. Just a thought i made. Sometimes our insticts or collective memory are more true than pure logic. I mean how many times you had a feeling about something and turned right? If humans are ''programmed'' to seek god maybe this is a proove of gods existence. I m not aware of any atheistic culture ever.
Alll those are just crazy thoughts i make sometimes like the type ''imaging our solar system being a molecule in a great body. All those molecules-solar systems form a universe body wich belongs to somebody-god''.
Mysteries of existence....
Interesting thought, but I think I have a rational counter statement for it. Man is not necessarily programmed to think this way. We do however make up a lot of myths and heroes. I remember when I was really young I would fantasize I was a superhero and I actually "believed" I would reach that point one day. I think that is but a microcosm of what the whole does. Now the god situation is very interesting because it's one of the few fantasies that one cannot disprove.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idomeneas
Hang out at a physics club and you will see an interesting mix of atheistic, agnositc and believer cultures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idomeneas
Atheistic culture exists and it is more then the denial of God.
I mean primitive or ancient culture not one forged with todays science discoveries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
What is Atheistic culture Papewaio?
I only know one ardent Atheist, myself. The rest of the people I know believe in fate, destiny, a god in one form or another, are agnostic or are apathetically religious.
Unfortunately it seems clear to me that several human nature, otherwise called characteristics (evolved by evolution - I don't waste my time with any creationists, by the way) that led to a virtually universal belief in divinity - supernatural power beyond human control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idomeneas
1. Control: Nature was - and is, for the most part - beyond human control. However, our evolved nature makes us feels that nature must be controlled...by something. Here is the where the first myth of the gods, most, except very few, placed their trust on polythiestic divinity. Of course, until the developments go further, and prove the strength and, arguably, ruthlessness of monotheistic religions.
2. Fear: We are afraid - simple as that. Death, enemy, defeat, humiliation, etc. - we fear, so we seek a sort of comfort. This comfort must not be disprovable by human's reach - so what is better than divinity? Indeed, the comfort provided by the belief something that "have power over humans" allows some people to go further in their exploits, good or bad, "without" fear.
3. Greed: for anything, not only wealth. Greed inspires (or, more properly, forced) us to seek help of something that "have power beyond humans" and "is predictable." Again - divinity comes in.
4. This Nature is hard to name, but I will call it "crowd." It has far-reaching effects indeed. Crowd - makes most of us "followers" and a few of us "leaders." In what deals with divinity - preachers (priests, prophets, etc.) are leaders, and the followers follow them without question. Also, this allows another side effect: "follow the crowd." Since the majority of people do this, the rest follows; the extension of followers-leaders relationship. In addition, the "crowd" are often representing a very emotional/unlogical part of humanity. Most would not act seriously in something that did not bother their everyday lives so much, or that they are seeking excuses not to do so, unless the situation becomes desperate - like most revolutions. This "crowdedness" also forced the minority - I am sure there are atheists, secret or not, since there are thinkers - that does not "falls" to believe in divinity, or question them, to silence. The method of silencing (pressure, expulsion, conviction, execution, etc.) does not matter - but all are often not pleasant.
Hence I argue that, unless divinity is proven, I will always remain skeptical.
Edit: Idomeneas, my answers seems to answer your question two posts before me, posted after I enter the posting page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
Thats why I mentioned a physics club, get a far higher number of atheists. It is interesting the ideas they have, a lot of them are very strong believers in social justice and other ideas. They have a strong interest in fairness, the ability to test a situation, a like of fantasy books and a like of science fiction as well. Strong mathematics ability, greater majority can play musical instruments. A duality of hating 'fuzzy' subjects while like quantum physics.
In short Geeks and Nerds in a critical mass...
So sort of a variant on a 'jock' culture, not an entire civilisation... just what our civilisation is based on. ~;)
In other words, "Renaissance" (the name that signifies ideal people in Renaissance beliefs) people: innovative and multi-skilled - and geek. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Sounds a lot like me, except I am better at and prefer English and History over Math.
Look, are you some kind of my clone or long-lost real brother? :inquisitive: You copycat! ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
What was the religion of the Huns?Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
You're right NeonGod, I forgot about the Huns. They were indeed atheist and did not believe in an afterlife, then again very little is known about them.
Booyakasha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Cool, I never kinew the Huns were Atheists. Cool beans.
Why is it important if there is a God or not ? I think it's up to him if he wants to show his face or not..... ~;)
Well it is not important in my world (the world as I understand it) because there is no god(s).
There is an oddity in the world that carries over into my world. That is that most people believe in a god or gods.
How do you know that there is no God?
No one can prove or disprove Gods existence - each to their own beliefs ~:)
Not being able to have any evidence of something is a very good reason not to believe in it. It's like you can't disprove the existence of the Lockness Monster, it's a weak example I know, but still.
59.57% of the org needs visits from the thought police
There is no evidence for a god or gods and plenty to disprove the ideas of the faithful. I also find it hard to believe that there is one superpowerful being and the writers of the Bible knew what he was thinking during the creation, besides "This is good!" What the hell is that?
Oh and as a side not I hate other people much less an all powerful being controlling me.
Go ahead. I am intrigued to see what disproves the existence of God...Quote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
Dunkin Donuts Dunkacino.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Malcolm
Well Darwin (evolution), fossil evidence that we were not around since six days or so after the Earth formed, the fact that I have not been struck down or plagued with horrible bad luck (generally good luck in fact.) and the fact that despite eating from the Tree of Knowledge many people are favoritist imbeciles. Though perhaps in-breeding due to only a few people around at the beginning lowered that and the distance from those granparents as well....
I don't see how evolution disproves God. It merely suggests that the creatures put on the Earth aren't the same as they were when it was created.
The THEORY of Evoloution. The definition of theory is it is something that is very likely but is NOT proven 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
In my opinion nothing can be proven 100% therefore my atheism is excused. ~;)
Not this again...the theory of evolution is a scientific theory. In the same way that the theory of gravity is a theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_maniac from mars
His/her/its own failure in proving its own existance. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by King Malcolm
Id say our own complex existence is evidence of a diety, or at least intelligent design.
I would say that Man is God. In any case, none of the gods from which the world can choose can possibly be the creator figure simply on historic grounds.
Life has been around millions of years therefore a certain degree of complexity in the larger many celled organisms is to be suspected. Saying something is too complex to evolve over millions (or more) years seems a bit like a cop-out to me because there has been plenty of time for the tree of life to prune itself of bad organs and such. (using a phrase from Darwin Awards books.)
Ok, so evolution disproves ID and such but does not disprove God. However, it does an excellent job of disproving the Christian creation myth. BTW I do not use the word to be offensive to Christians, I regard all religious tales that are not very well based in facts to be myths.
What about the existence of Complex Regional Pain Syndrome? Does that prove intelligent malicious design?Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
my existence is quite simple.. :blank2:
The Greek gods are the coolest deities you could find anywhere on Earth. That's why Greek culture is sooooo popular! Have you ever heard of Aphrodite committing adultery with Ares, or Zeus who both fears (and feared by) his wife, Hera?
That's soooooo cool!
In other words, their legends proves the fact that, unless a deity comes out and proves his/herself's existence - I would consider the belief in supernaturality as a whole as a reflection of human nature, and not what regulates human nature.
I concur Antiochus. Dionysus being by far my favorite. I love him, he's so damn cool. If he existed I'de pray to him.
It's said he was so powerful that when he was trapped by pirates once he blew them all away with just a flicker. He is also the least built god. Very relaxed, like me. Yet so powerful, he could destroy anything.:smitten:
Personally I would pray to multiple Gods if I believed in the ancient Greek religion. Nike for victory, Athena for Wisdom and others, can't remember them all at the moment. Artemis was the patron of Sparta and what did she stand for? The hunt and what else?
-
Remarkably Kenshin they stood for a zillion more things then they are famous for. Dionysus for example is also the god of orgies and violence(whilst in drunken rage). A good way to find out is to just search them on line. They are all very interesting and most imporatantly very flawed.
-
Orgies? you mean in roman era. Anyway Greek theology is sooo complicated that you can get lost in all those different interpretations of the myths. Im reading lately 2 books. ''A history of greek religion'' by M.P Nilsson and ''History of ancient Athens from mythic years to pelloponesian war'' by S.I Kargakos. Guys my head hurt from overloading! I mean so many explanations and interpretations that even me a greek that grew up from infancy with those stories can get comfussed some times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
I disagree heartily. The Celts, for example, had no goddess of love - instead, they just had every goddess figure have an active sexuality. Adultery was no big deal in the land of plaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Sumerian and Egyptian mythology are also very interesting. They provide a mind-bending scope on how different things were before Christian morality was mainstream.
Well I knew they stood for many different things, however, that is what I( would be praying to them for. I was just wondering what else Artemis controlled.
link - pantheon
Oooh a virgin. :smitten:Quote:
The daughter of Leto and Zeus, and twin sister of Apollo. Artemis is the goddess of the wilderness, the hunt and wild animals, and fertility (she became a goddess of fertility and childbirth mainly in cities). She was often depicted with the crescent of the moon above her forehead and was sometimes identified with Selene (goddess of the moon). Artemis was one of the Olympians and a virgin goddess. Her main vocation was to roam mountain forests and uncultivated land with her nymphs in attendance hunting for lions, panthers, hinds and stags. Contradictory to the later, she helped in protecting and seeing to their well-being, also their safety and reproduction. She was armed with a bow and arrows which were made by Hephaestus and the Cyclopes.
yes i believe in God
it baffles me that any sensible person could possibly believe that the entire universe came to be just as it is today merely by random happenstance. such a way of thinking is in my view, completely irrational and ludicrous
~
I think it's completely irrational that we are even considering the begginings of the universe. We have little to know evidence about any theory that it was created even. We are talking about trillions of years here.
~
If nature is a self evolving program there must be a programmer imo. If he, she, it, cares about babysitting the creation its another thing....
.
Ok, but who created the "programmer"? If someone created the universe then who created him and so on?
If someone created him then who created the one that created him and so on and so on till there is no answer, only speculation.
.
How come there are more Christians than atheists in the "What Religion are you?" poll, whereas there are more atheist here? I don't follow the logic.
Do you think the origin of Judaism and hence Christianity can be found in the mythology of ancient Sumer or Egypt?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGod
No doubt about it. The jews basically conformed to the Egyptian monotheistic period religion of Aton. Akhenaton, the pharaoh actually changed all the scriptures to read that there is only one god. The jews took that to heart and when they got back they streted writing their own mythology with Adam and Eve and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
Aton was influenced by Amon who influenced Zeus(or Dias), which is why in latin the word for god is Deus(Zeus). All these religions are interconnected and very similar really.
Sumer, yes. Egypt, not so much, although, at one point, Egypt did assimilate a great deal of Sumerian influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
My reference to Egypt was more about how things which would seem shocking today were commonplace in the religion, such as the sacrifice and mummification of literally hundreds of thousands of animals or the torture-sacrifce of female prisoners of war by forcing them to have sex with a gigantic, stone statue of a particular ithyphallic deity.
NeonGod, what part of Sumer religion influenced Judaism. I dont' think we know anything about their religion, they are sooo old(about 2700's). I think you might be thinking about the Assyrians, but they were polytheists as well.
Egypt has had the most profound influence on Christianity and even pagan religions of Europe. I refer to my previous post.
Considering how Abraham lived in Ur before YHWH apparently spoke to him and told him to leave, bringing his story of Monotheism with him, I would say that his Sumerian upbringing would have had a great deal to do with the shaping of Judaism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
There is a fair deal known about the Sumerian religion. You know, Marduk and all that good stuff. It forms the basis for H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos.
~
I think you are refering to Babylonians because Abrahamwas supposed to have lived between 2000 and 1500 while Ur was annihilated in 2004. Not to mention that Abraham is a kind of a fictional character only known through the Bible.
From Encarta:
~Quote:
Sumerian Religion, religious beliefs of the peoples of ancient Sumer. The Sumerians believed that the universe was ruled by a pantheon comprising a group of living beings, human in form, but immortal and possessing superhuman powers. These beings, they believed, were invisible to mortal eyes and guided and controlled the cosmos in accordance with well-laid plans and duly prescribed laws.
Abraham bounced around other cities after he left Ur. I don't remember their names, but the point is the same. Besides, that's just a 4-year gap.
In any case, I would dispute that, considering that Jewish calendar is well over its 5000th year, and Abraham founded the religion...
One set of the Sumerian gods were anthropomorphic and benificent, Marduk being one of them. The Elder Gods were the evil buggers and they were the ones upon which the Cthulhu stories were based.
Abraham's a fictional character? Yeah, right, buddy. You insist that Achilles was a real person; what's the difference?
About 1500 years.Quote:
what's the difference?
In other words, nothing? ~:handball:Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
I'm confused. ~:confused:
How could Abraham have taken monotheism from the Sumerians when the Sumerians weren't monotheistic and were destroyed during 2000-1500 in which Abraham was alive? ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused:
I didn't say he took Monotheism from them. I'm saying he was a Sumerian and could not escape his own culture, affecting Judaism at its inception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
He couldn't have existed from 2000-1500 if the Jewish calendar has existed for over 5000 thousand years.
That's what my encyclopedia had. It said he lived between 2000-1500 acording to the Bible. I think I'll trust my encyclopedia.
Also you completely ignore that Egypt had profound influence on Judaim being the worship of Aton was the first true monotheistic religion.
It can't be monotheistic if it wasn't the only god, can it? Besides, not all Egyptians bought into it, especially at the lower echelons of society. I doubt it had that much impact as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Read up on it. It had profound impact, but you won't know unles you read something about it. Google Worship of Aton or something.
Is an atheist someone who does not believe in a higher power then themselves?
If so does that make God an atheist?
The Judeo-Christian God doesn't have a personality or belief system of his own.
An Atheist does not believe in any God and at least hypothesizes that there is no God, if not outright denies the existence of one. By my definition an Atheist also does not believe in fate, charma or anything else like that, though the true dictionary definition may differ from my own.