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You don't get IC's from puppet nations. They do, however, have a limit enforced on their resource stockpiles, so you should benefit from having more of what you need to support a greater economy anyhow, minus the factories which you can build yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Isn't that the truth, On November 12th 1942, US forces occupied Guatemala after driving my forces out of Nicaragua, Honduras, and San Salvador. Even though the size of the land forces was roughly even, the US had total air and naval superiority, in addition my forces were probably demoralized after numerous defeats. My 2 divisions in Belize were defeated by 2 corps of New Zealanders, basicaly I was wrong about the US not willing to commit a significant number of troops to Central America.Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery1
I found it to be a fun and challenging campaign, until the US got involved after which it was hopeless.
I could have told you that. I've only been playing HOI for a few weeks myself, I started out playing Brazil in HOI 1 which is quite a powerful faction in that game with something like 114 IC's. But when I accidentally triggered a US declaration of war against me, the US just came and creamed me in no time flat. Although I had plenty of infantry divisions, they were no match for the US divisions which had far higher organization and were pretty much unstoppable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mercian billman
The only thing I dug was that I was invaded by two US armies headed by MacArthur and Patton. I felt really flattered by all the attention ~;p
In HOI 2, Brazil is seriously nerfed compared to HOI 1 BTW, with only 34 or so IC's. In fact many of the smaller powers in HOI 2 have suprisingly few IC's. Italy is good though, she starts the game with 60 IC's and by conquest and building you can quickly get that up to 80 and thereby get your fifth research slot. For a "minor" nation, Italy is quite powerful, in fact about as powerful as France I believe (which seems wrong to me, but who knows). Anyhow if you play Italy you can learn from my mistakes by reading through this thread ~:)
I did try playing Turkey one time in HOI 1, but because they are a democracy the game wouldn't let me declare war on anybody. So I think that unless you ally with one or other belligerent, you won't get much action playing Turkey, at least early in the game until hostilities break out.
Since Italy is a dictatorship you can declare war on anyone you choose. Early in the game you can attack all those countries which don't have their independence guaranteed by a major power, such as Ethiopia, Albania, and Spain. You can also probably attack Portugal, Yugoslavia and Greece etc before major hostilities break out. So Italy's got a lot of options, a good industrial base, and at the same time is not too big so it's an excellent country for learning the game IMO. My conquest skills have improved to the point that I was able to fight my entire last campaign against Spain on "Extremely Fast" speed (using the Pause button when appropriate of course), I used to have to slow it the game down to "Normal" to handle combat :juggle2: ~:)
Brazil probably wasn't nerfed as much as you think. Note that there are simply less things to spend ICs on in HoI2. YOu don't pay for research using ICs for example. That and EVERYONE else had their ic amount cut.
Actually, 34 IC's ain't bad in the context of HOI 2. Many other countries have a lot less. So "seriously nerfed" is probably a bit of an overstatement. All the same I think the minors *have* been nerfed compared to the majors in HOI 2. But I could be wrong about that, I'm hardly an expert on the game at this point.
How does one perform air assaults in Doomsday? I can't seem to figure this out ... six divisions of paratroopers, all loaded onto transports are just sitting around in one of my airbases because I can't figure out how to order them to perform an airdrop.
I mean, I know how to do it, I just don't have the option to perform the attack open. Air superiority is not a problem, since my enemy does not actually have any airplanes or any airbases, nor a navy, nor air defences.
Load up the paras(make sure the transports have max possible org), select the transports, then control-right click. should see a menu.
Thanks, turns out the organization was a problem, it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery1
You also may need to research Battlefield Interdiction doctrine. On the tech overview you'll be able to see how effective an airborne assault (et al) will be, and if it's at 0% or with a -- through it, you won't be able to use that method at all.
I've started a new campaign with turkey and Germany just declared war on Poland, unfortunately I can't get involved because after Attaturks death Turkey becomes and isolationist democracy. I've managed to increase the size of my original Army from 10 Inf div to 22 (4 Garrison and 3 Militias) their all upgraded to 1936 standards and now my goal is to equip each div with a either a AT or AA Brigade. The majority of my forces are on my Soviet border, 11 Turkish divisions are arrayed against anywhere between 3-9 Soviet divisions. My Airforce and Navy are still weak so my plan is to improve upon that and hopefully by 1943 I'll be able to enter the war, I still haven't decided if I want to be the Axis or Allies yet, but I think it would be pretty interesting to see if Turkish involvement could change the outcome of the war in the East and the Mediterranean.
Allies all the way. By 1943 the Germans will be bogged down in Russia and fighting a war they can't win and can't get out, and you can avenge the defeat at Vienna centuries earlier and restore the Empire West!Quote:
Originally Posted by mercian billman
Or you can take the harder route and rebuild the Caliphate, but that requires one to be an expert in using armies so the Axis can be saved. The key to successful minors are small, but highly optimized and highly effective army, supported by an equally highly effective airforce. Indeed, Mech Infs+SP Art are the best for the creation of said army. Use as few Inf as possible and as many specialized ones as possible. But, as said, that would require an expert in knowing to use what when and where, which I am not. Then you'll have to beat the USA in Africa and tie its forces down there to save Fortress Europa from a D-Day, and meanwhile you'll have to strike at the Russians and save the Germans. Which, of course, can be done.
By the way, screwtype, I for one wouldn't count Italy as a minor. It obviously was very powerful, able to stand up to other majors if properly led (aka by the human), and historically it was certainly more of a militarist nation than France was, fascist and all. Sadly, or may be for the best, its historical performance wasn't too good due to the general incompetence of the Italian officer corps, reflected probably in the low skills of the generals, and all those old guard craps, not as bad as France, though.
Yup, MEch+SP is very good, but I also like the old Mot+Heavy armoured, or mech+Heavy armoured combo. I kinda like marines+different artillery or engineers too, specially in the Mediterranean.
Right, except for the situations when they don't ... like my campaign with Japan ... I decide to attack the Soviets the moment the Germans do, so I stack some 80 or so divisions (both my own and allied) on the borders ... and I wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
It's 1944 and Germany still hasn't attacked the Soviets ... so I decide to go in alone. The moment I do so, however, the USA declares war on me. I still met with resounding success in Siberia and the Caucaus (I had taken Iraq and Persia) isolating and devastating a large number of Soviet divisions, but the USA's Navy (while not a match in a straight up fight, they operate in more smaller groups and have mobility) is giving me a headache ... they've retaken New Zealand, and are busily taking Australia.
And Germany is still doing nothing, except fighting the Battle of Britain (with a bunch of carriers on their side).
Oh, and what does a nuke precisely do? If I, say, nuke Washington DC and New York ... what do I get out of all the wasted resources on ICBMs and Nukes?
I just checked the CIA Factbook to compare the GDP of France and Italy and they are much closer than I thought - 2.06 Trillion to 1.7 Trillion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
I've always assumed that Italy was quite a bit smaller and more backward economically than the former "Great Powers" of Britain and France, but it turns out it is not far behind.
BTW, I think Italy's mediocre performance in WWII can probably be explained as much by the army's poor organization than anything else. Mussolini wanted to exaggerate Italy's strength by having lots of Divisions, but to do that he had to make the Divisions smaller, which meant they weren't a match for their Allied counterparts. This is not it seems reflected in the game, where Italy's Divisions seem to be organized pretty much the same as everyone else's.
Don't motorized/mech units use a lot of fuel? I've been a bit discouraged to build such units because some guys on the Paradox forums say that air power gives far more bang for the buck, and that infantry divisions combined with air power are pretty much all you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Aside From Speed. And Air Power is relatively useless if an enemy is dug in.
Infantry and air power is probably better for your money then motorized and air power, unless you blitz often. But mechanized and air power, especially backed up with tanks, packs a huge punch, and is worth every barrel of oil, every spent IC, every carton of supplies, IMO.
Oh that's good, because in spite of the advice I mentioned, I still find myself lusting after Panzer Divisions ~:)
Yes, You have to have Panzer divisions. I remember as Romania in HOI1 I decided to build a Navy and panzers (Panzers were cheaper back then) I got invaded by the British. A transport group with only 2 or threee destroyers got smashed by my Battleship and a few cruisers. Unfortunately, Their Home Fleet arrived and promptly sent my lovely fleet to the bottom. I felt like crying. :embarassed: :wall:
Watch your TC, especially if you're not using the economic giants. Motorized and mechanised divisions require more TC (not sure of the ratio) than infantry, who require about 1 TC per division. Each Panzer division takes 3, unless I'm mistaken - this is all after modifiers for distance and offensive supplification. This may not seem too bad at first, but keep in mind the supply issues that you'll incur after leading a successful campaign, further bogged down through occupied territory maintence and the absolutely insane partisan activity. While tanks may seem nearly invincible, a large bunch of them off in foreign territory will drag down your supply efficiency. I learned this the hard way.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Did I mention that sub-optimal TC affects unit speed?
Yes, actually, the main reason for the minors to go this way is really not the actual combat performance, but manpower.
These guys eat less manpower than Infantry for the same amount of "success," per se.
Though their combat powers are very, very useful because they're fast. It's all about swift strikes and encirclements. As a minor, attritional war is your doom. Local superiority is everything. That's why the airforce is also crucial. Striking on dug-in divisions or long strategic bombing campaigns are pointless as minors: they need the best of CAS or TACs, guarded by skilled interceptors. Entire divisions will die even faster than encirclements if your planes can overwhelm the front and bomb them into Oblivion, and TACs on Logistical Strike can delay precious reinforcements from the enemy.
However, they will need more resources and TC per div. to be effective than Infantry.
And the reason for mechs is not because they're any better than the panzers--panzers are waaaay cooler anyway--but that they achieve roughly the same firepower with much less cost in research, production, and maintenance. Economics.
The Navy, though, is a sad state. Only a Great Power or a Great Power-to be (i.e. a brilliantly-played human minor) can produce navies that can challenge the existing superpowers. And even then they'll require local superiority like nothing else.
Keba: Nukes increase dissent on enemies. They also do significant, if sadly not permanent, damage on the static province assets of the province that got nuked. Some divisions will suffer too, though much less than one wants it to be.
Some players like to build up a nuclear arsenal of six or more and unleash them on the USA at once at the highest IC provinces (the more IC damaged in a shot, the higher the dissent) and see partisan uprisings scattering around the country. Funny and actually is quite effective if combined with invasions to exploit the opportunity, since dissent, as we must all remember, also reduce combat ability.
Bah. I just lost my entire battle fleet - in a single battle!
I invaded Vichy, and had just about finished polishing them off on the mainland with a very neat, well conducted campaign when they started invading a couple of useless Italian provinces of mine in Africa. I decided to intervene to stop them because I wanted to keep one of those provinces to use as an invasion base for one of their African VP provinces - Oran, I think it was.
So I fired up my transport fleet - six transports carrying six elite divisions, escorted by my four battleships plus my two best cruisers and six destroyers. I only just got them out of Genoa when they ran into a Vichy fleet - sixteen ships including a flattop and four battleships.
My fleet started losing so I tried to extricate it but couldn't. (Are you able to break off contact in a naval battle? The game doesn't seem to let you). So I rushed my nav bombers, plus the rest of my navy to the rescue.
The result? The battle went on for about three days, they lost the flattop, I lost 45 ships! - my entire navy, along with six elite divisions and two good commanders, all to the bottom of the sea.
YEEEAAARGH. ~:mad ~:mad ~:mad
Now I'm going to have to replay the entire Vichy campaign over again. I bet it doesn't go as well this time!
But I can't help thinking something is seriously up with the naval combat system. It's just plain RIDICULOUS to lose 45 ships in one battle! You should be able to disengage if you're losing. Also, your transports should be able to disperse and get out of the way when they have escorts to cover their retreat. Did I do something wrong to have this happen, or is the naval combat system just screwed up?
Apart from which, don't those damn Vichies know they are supposed to be a pathetic bunch of cowardly collaborators and surrender monkeys? :furious3:
Yeah, I know about the TC, I've had a lot of problems with that. I only plan to build maybe three Armoured Divisions at most. Italy doesn't really have a huge need for them, at least, not at this point in the game. Or maybe I'll go for the mech divs since Antiochus seems to think they're better value.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
What I am wondering about is though whether I should build a rocket site. Actually, I'm already building it, but it's horrendously expensive and I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm building it because I want to give myself the best possible chance of getting jet planes later in the game, but it isn't clear from the manual whether you actually need the rocket site to do this. Do I really need it, or will I get the jets anyhow?
YOur commander was probably terrible, plus bad doctrine. Result being terrible positioning values. And if that happens they will be EXTEREMLY hard to shake, the result being that your fleet is butchered. Also watch for stacking penalties. Also note that you can not run in the first 4 hours. You can tell your transports to run, but they at least need to be in their own fleet, not stacked with ships that you want to stay and fight. And your commanders aren't dead btw.Quote:
Now I'm going to have to replay the entire Vichy campaign over again. I bet it doesn't go as well this time!
But I can't help thinking something is seriously up with the naval combat system. It's just plain RIDICULOUS to lose 45 ships in one battle! You should be able to disengage if you're losing. Also, your transports should be able to disperse and get out of the way when they have escorts to cover their retreat. Did I do something wrong to have this happen, or is the naval combat system just screwed up?
Oh, the commanders somehow magically survived? They must be the only guys who did!
And the transports should have been in their own fleet? But will the two fleets stick together in movement? And what's to stop the enemy picking on my transport fleet instead of the supposed escort fleet?
But yeah, it's true I've completely neglected the naval doctrines. I doubt I could have advanced far in them anyhow, but not being able to disengage a battle for three entire days is just nuts!
And I don't know what was up with my supposedly uber-killer nav bombers. Their impact seemed to be negligible. In fact I couldn't even get them to fly for the last couple of days. It didn't seem to be bad weather, perhaps they were disorganized by AA fire or something.
And what about the rocket site? Do I need to build it?
I can't believe manpower could ever be a problem. I already have over 70 divisions, and I still have manpower of about 850. That's another what? 85 Infantry Divisions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus
Must say I haven't had much problem beating the other guys so far. Yugoslavia was probably the toughest so far and they weren't very tough. I just use my mountain divisions as my mobile force, they move faster than infantry divisions and can generally beat enemy divisions to the province they're trying to retreat to, which means effectively they get surrounded and destroyed. At least, that's how it seems to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
As for bombers, I just put them on Interdiction and forget them. I can't be bothered trying to finesse with different attacks. Causing the enemy to lose org just keeps 'em retreating, so you can eventually corral them where you want and destroy them.
[quote=AntiochusIIIThe Navy, though, is a sad state. Only a Great Power or a Great Power-to be (i.e. a brilliantly-played human minor) can produce navies that can challenge the existing superpowers. And even then they'll require local superiority like nothing else.[/quote]
As I just found out. See my post about the big naval battle with Vichy above (Vichy! Bah).
He meant that unless the fleet is warship-only, it cannot be made to flee the sea zone within the first four hours after contact is made.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
The issue there is the carrier. It has a much greater range than the other ships around, since it counts the Carrier Air Group as being part of the ship's range. Your battleships will try their best to close, but the other fleet can simply maintain their distance and reign death upon you thanks to the attached planes.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
If they're not flying, you should pay more attention to the mission parameter popup window. The game defaults delay of action when the planes are under 50% strength or organisation, but you can lower this yourself before you send them off. Also, their effect won't be so great on an entire assembled fleet at once, especially, if I understand properly, if the fleet has a CAG to fight off incoming planes. How many naval bombers do you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Well, are you intending on researching rocketry or building missiles? Having a rocket site speeds up research for the rocketry-oriented technologies, but seeing good results can involved a lot of waiting, sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Hmm, okay. But it still doesn't answer my question regarding why the enemy fleet might just not find my transport fleet instead and bomb that to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
Hmm, maybe that was the problem, but if so carriers must be pretty awesome. I lost 45 ships! And I actually sunk the carrier about two thirds of the way through the battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
I only had three level one nav bombers, each with a bomb factor of four. But I also threw my tacs into the fray, I had four of them with a bomb factor of 3 apiece. So I had seven bombers altogether. But after flying a few missions, they just stopped, and I couldn't figure out why. I'd order them to fly into the zone, and then they would just remain at their airports.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
I don't care about rockets. All I want is to make sure I get turbojet airplanes later in the war. I'm not sure if I can get them without a rocket station, that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
A) Commanders go back to the commander selection pool when their command is destroyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
B) You don't need to, but it will speed up research.
When researching stuff, look at the kinds of skills that are need to research it. Turbo jets will be some rocketry skill, and like was said before rocket research centers help speed rocketry research.Quote:
I don't care about rockets. All I want is to make sure I get turbojet airplanes later in the war. I'm not sure if I can get them without a rocket station, that's all.
Maybe I won't bother with it then. It takes 162 days to build and costs 40 IC, since I only want jet planes and won't be bothering with rockets, it's probably a waste of IC's.Quote:
Originally Posted by discovery1
Rockets beat strategic bombers any day ... you can cranck them out pretty fast (with the Rocket assembly line tech), they are fairly cheap and ruin industry like you wouldn't believe. As an added plus, little or no interception chance, unless the enemy waste resources on rocket interceptors.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
As an added plus, the ICBM is exceptionally useful, you can hit an enemy a long way away without threat from retaliation. Add to that that you can mount nukes on those ... :dizzy2:
Personally, I always go for turbojet aircraft ... they can give you an exceptional edge if used early on (mostly because I almost never bother making a lot of aircraft ... I let my 'allies' handle that battlefield role mostly).
Keep in mind that the fact that you're not the biggest industrial power in your alliance actually takes away a lot of the need to shoulder the pressure. With, say, Germany or USA, you practically fight the war on your own, while your allies hold a support role (like holding a part of the front, or small-scale advances ... or just providing convenient aribases and ports).
I'm only playing Italy ya know! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
I haven't the resources to build everything. I think I'll leave the rockets to Germany...
No hope of Italy getting nukes. Italy doesn't have a single nuclear research team. It would take forever to research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
Yeah, I'm keen on the jets, since standard aircraft research only has three levels (and I already have two of them, by 1941).Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
I'm not actually in an alliance, yet ~:) I plan to try and stay out of the big war until I'm ready, which means when I've done all the conquest I want to in order to build up my strength to the max. Then, maybe I'll go into alliance with Germany and mount a suprise attack on Gibraltar and Suez, thus turning the entire Mediterranean into an Italian lake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
Or maybe just for fun, I'll throw my lot in with the Allies and mount a suprise invasion of Germany :eyebrows: I haven't decided yet.
I'm not sure what else I want to conquer yet. I've taken Spain, Albania, Yugoslavia and Greece (the latter puppeted) and I'm about to take Vichy, which I will probably annex. After that I might take Portugal and puppet that, and/or Bulgaria and Turkey. The US is not very happy with me already though, so I may not be able to take all these without triggering a US DoW.
The main disadvantage of not being in an alliance is - no help with research. But I think one is amply compensated by the fact that you're not wasting IC's defending yourself against the major powers...
About Vichy... They have VP provinces as far as Saigon. It is no enough to take out their european holdings , and Dakar, you will have to take out Asia too. So prepare for a long war. I did it once, shipping a single paratrooper to Saigon to finish them off, but it is hopeless, you can't hope to mantain order, and your TC will go through the roof.
Maybe I should just puppet them then? I've almost got enough VP's to do it.
Somebody said something about being patient and waiting for their farflung provinces to go to Free France. I'm not too sure about this though - won't Free France want to declare war on me to get its Vichy territories back?
Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
They will, if you start messing with the allies and generally get your belligerance too high. For some reason those damn democracies don't like you if your belligerance is high.
Those provinces might go to Free France because Vichy is weakened, but they won't necessarily depending on how the game progresses. I believe puppeting Vichy is the best option, but if you control Spain, you migh want to leave a land corridor between Spain and Italy to be able to deploy troops there if nothing else.
Yeah, my popularity with the US is already -181, and I think they go to war with you at -200 don't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Oddly enough, I'm only at -139 with Britain. Maybe they're secretly happy to see their old enemy France get her come-uppance ~:)
How do I get a land corridor, you mean by demanding certain provinces from them? I hadn't really thought of that. My main purpose in fighting Vichy is to get that land corridor to Spain, so maybe that's the best shot. I was going to demand a puppet state plus military access, but demanding provinces instead of military access might make more sense, I guess. Might get me a few extra IC's, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Beligerence, not your relations, determine when they can go to war with you. I'm not too sure how relations come into it. I know they do have to do with trading agreements(better relations = better deals).Quote:
Yeah, my popularity with the US is already -181, and I think they go to war with you at -200 don't they?
Oddly enough, I'm only at -139 with Britain. Maybe they're secretly happy to see their old enemy France get her come-uppance
The better your relations with another country, the better off most deals will be. Presuading them to join your fledgling alliance or to sign a non-aggression pact is much easier if you're on better terms with the country. They won't necessarily declare war if your relations have sunk to -200, but, in most cases, nations won't declare war on you if relations are at +200, even if you're very belligerent.
I assumed belligerence fed into the relationship factor, and that it was ultimately relationship that caused you to go to war. But that was only my assumption.
I think my belligerence is around 70 or 80 right now.
Yeah, I'm just beginning to realize the advantages of alliances. If you can get an alliance and then assume military control of its forces, it can make more sense than invading and annexing, because you effectively get the use of ALL that country's IC's instead of just a few. You also get their army for free, and you don't have to support it yourself. You can also get blueprints from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorebag
Probably the only downside of an alliance I think is that you can't actually control what that country builds or researches. Apart from that, alliances can be quite useful I think. I'm in an alliance with Bulgaria now. Now I will probably have to use my influence on it until it lets me get control of its military. Or maybe I will have to conduct a coup?
Ideally you want to keep your belligerance below 50. Played as Argentina took Chile, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uraguay, and Brazil. I fended off the US for quite awhile actually. Tanks and Mech Inf. Don't do so hot in the Jungles and we were at a Stand Still. Was going to take Venezuela, so I declared war, my Belligerance went over 50 and I was suddenly at War with the UK, Italy, France, and the USSR. then I got pwned.
Yeah, I think next time I play Italy I'll try to take Republican Spain before the civil war breaks out. That's one less faction I'll get belligerence points for DoW'ing.
And then maybe I won't bother DoW'ing Albania either. Maybe I'll just try to coup and puppet or something. It only has a couple of pretty useless provinces, hardly worth the extra belligerence points you get for the DoW.
BTW, I've remained at war with Ethiopia right throughout this game because I've noticed that you only use half as many consumer goods when you're at war. I'm not sure if there's a downside to being permanently at war though, in terms of production I mean. I thought I read something about it in the manual but haven't been able to find it again. Is there any downside you know of, either in terms of production or diplomacy, to being at war?
The drain is not the division-building, mainly, since we can always calculate that. The true drain, however, is reinforcements. The divisions suffer strength losses in combat, and very high losses in heavy combat; you'll have to reinforce them with the ICs and manpower or have understrength divisions that can't perform properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Italy is not suffering much from that point, though, unlike, say, Japan in China, or an Axis Minor fighting in Russia.
Also, avoid offensives in winter if you want your troops to live. It's a huge bonus on the enemy, anyway.
Hey, you're not facing anything like the Russian Bear yet. Or the African campaign; or something such. Those guys...you will be outnumbered eventually, if not locally, and you'll have to encircle and destroy them. Beating up the minors are easier: they don't have hundreds of divisions to throw against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Your way of destroying enemy divisions is similar to mine, but I have serious problems fighting the Russians that way. The traditional encirclements (taking provinces surrounding a province with enemy forces in, and destroy that pocket) works better.
Interdiction is useful in battles (they turn the tides, too) and against enemy positions. But you'll be better off with ground attack on those retreating divisions. When they're moving or retreating, divisions are awfully vulnerable to annihilation by a sufficiently persevere airbombing, even without direct groundfighting. And my God it's beautiful when that crazy Panzer division that beat the crap out of your infantry just evaporates into thin air thanks to your bombers' efforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Ouch. Be careful of carriers. I'm a traditionalist and love my BBs, but the carriers own me unless my fleet's made up of a crapload of destroyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
Also, Italy's fleet, though large by anyone's (except the mightiest's) standard, is very old. It's like the French's, all class I, class II stuff. So though your Regia Marina looks mighty in numbers and might be able to just about survive the fight with the Royal Navy, it really is not, unless you strengthen it:
If you don't have the resources for the big ones (BBs, CVs), build a crapload of as modern destroyers as possible. They're the fastest-building of all the fighting surface ships, so it won't be years before your fleet can even do anything, and in numbers they can be surprisingly good. Even though they lack the weight of the big ones, you can afford their losses. Mix them with the old battleships and you just might stand a chance.
The way the Navy works is this way: the fleets detect each other. They close in. Those with longer range "fire" first, in which carriers benefit. The admirals will maneuver for the "best" fighting spot, the positioning value. If out of position they can't really fight. The doctrines mark your positioning value, as well as the skill of the Admiral. The ships have specific ranges where they can join combat. Carriers have 100+ km with cag brigades, while the next-longest one, the Battleship, is 32+km. That's why people fear carriers so much. Therefore, it is best to research better doctrines for your fleets if you want them to perform. And the carriers fight with airpower: only the smaller ships, CL or DD's, are truly capable of countering airpower, and only in numbers, except, of course, if you have carriers of your own...
One trick that people like to do in building up their navies is to focus on carriers, building level one carriers. It's quite an exploit, actually, since ships don't upgrade, but the cag brigades on carriers upgrade like other brigades, so the carriers won't be obsolete. Of course, Italy is not suited for carriers at all. Their doctrine is the Battleship one.
Oh, of course, I didn't think of that. Obviously just beating up the minors isn't going to cause too many problems in that regard, is it? ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Yeah, I should have realized that myself from a little battle I had yesterday. A couple of enemy divisions were taking so long to retreat out of a province of mine I decided to switch to ground attack just to try and get rid of them. Three sorties and poof! they were gone. I watched the battles - half the unit strength gone in a single attack!Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
This is one tactic I obviously must make more use of...
I'm deliberately neglecting my fleet because I figure that once I take Gibraltar and Suez the Med. will be an Italian lake anyhow. I will then just use Gorebag's trick of annihilating enemy shipping with navs, and then it won't make a lick of difference how ancient my ships and naval doctrine are (I hope).Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
My biggest problem at this stage is deciding who to go for next. I've got Albania, Yugoslavia, Greece and all the important bits of Vichy, I figure the next target should be either Portugal or Turkey. But since Portugal has VP provinces scattered all over it's another Vichy and I'm probably better off making an alliance with it.
That leaves Turkey. I figure I could take Turkey and then use it as a base to attack the Soviet oil producing provinces such as Baku and Grozny - in other words, try to help the Krauts beat the Soviets.
But then since my belligerence is already 116, just the attack on Turkey will probably trigger an Allied DoW so it probably makes more sense to secure my flank first. That means DoW'ing the Allies now by mounting a suprise attack on Gibraltar and Suez.
So even though I'm reluctant to enter the Big War against the Allies, logic seems to suggest that this is the sensible thing to do at this point. Alternatively though, I could sit tight for another year, maybe two, and just build up my strength so I'd be better prepared to defend myself when I do make the move. But then the Allies will be building up their strength too...hard choice to make :juggle2:
The problem is that one of the countries Guaranteeing the independence of Turkey is the Soviet Union, I learned that the hard way whent they declared war on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
In africa, I'd advise you not to stretch yourself too thin. I had no problems taking out the Brits in Egypt and I've advanced as far as Somalia (and linked up with the troops in Ethiopia), but now the TC is over the top, and I've got too few units for too many provinces (and they take so long to get anywhere, and those are armored and motorized divisions). So, yes, I'd take Egypt and the Suez, but would not advance too far south, Ethiopia should be the lower end (maybe take out the Free French provinces).
Yeah, I don't intend to go any further than the Med coast really. I just want to take all the main ports around the Med. coast and the rest I probably won't bother with. I don't really care what happens to Ethiopia either, it's got nothing in it and I just have four militia divs there to keep the natives under control.
I didn't notice a Soviet guarantee of independance for Turkey but I'll check that out before attacking. Thanks for reminding me.
In my las game, I puppeted Ethiopia and shipped all my troops there to N.Africa to take and hold Suez, Alexandria and all the other bits. For fighting in Africa, my motto is if a province has TC< 20 % it isn't worth taking unles is a VP province. Just because it takes so long to walk in and out, that if the enemy attacks those provinces, you'll be aware of that with enought ime to set up a defense or counterattack anyway.
You can DoW Portugal and take everything of theirs but Lisbon, which you can't take, and get some african territorise and islands off the deal too, if you want them (I did, and then puppeted them too, but the allies quickly occupied them in the conflict...) My navy still got thrashed once, even after taking Gibraltar and Suez, because I deprived Vichy from all their ports, so their huge fleet was just roaming around the med, and ran into my transports - which was a miserable sight - But I am killing them off one at a time with aviation and subs. Still cost me a lot of time and resources - those italian admirals are mostly worthless.
Turkey. If they DoW you, you can take Istanbul, and garrison with infantry and artillery, and take the mountain south provinces, garrison with your trusty mountain troops, and let the turks lose men and sleep trying to kick you out. Even better, if you are allied to Blgaria, use their troops to invade Turkey from sea and through Istanbul, which serves 2 purposes: weakens both Turkey and Bulgaria, and forces Bu;garia t spend ICs on refitting the troops, which means you are going to be more advanced than them technologicaly, should you wish to use that advantage. It also leaves the Bulgarian divisions and turkish territory between you and the russians, if they are guaranteeing independences or get into the war some other way.
One thing though: When the war with the brits breaks out, take Iraq ASAP and garrison it with strong divisions in strategic points, as the brits will try hard to get it back, and while their power is crumbling in the mediterranean and Africa because they are out of supplies, they will fight hard in Asia, because there is plenty of divisions in India, and Australia and New Zealand will help them.
Once defeat is imminent for British Iraq, a movement to turn on the British appears and peace is signed, as Iraq leaves the Allies. Of course, this might be limited to a German occupation being the event trigger, but I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
Never happened in my game. I occupied and puppeted once, then the brits took it back when I had to move divisions to the turkish border, and then I retook it and annexed, but no event has been triggered.
It's an event for Germeny after the creation of Vichy event. The Germans are offered possibility of turning Iraq away from the Allies by sending troops to Syria. They lose supplies (I don't remember what else), Syria gains a squadron of German bombers, and Iraq leaves the Allies.
After enjoying HOI 2 so much I bought DD :2thumbsup:
However what are the side effects of using nuclear weapons, apart from province damage? What about international relations... etc?
Massive dissent increase and the VP value of the targeted provence falls to one, I think.
I believe the country that's done the nuking has an increase in belligerence as well, but I can't confirm it personally, since the rules pertaining to nukes have changed in DD.
bumping the topic about this great game ~:)
ANy tips for Italy?
Take out Ethopia if desired (I wouldn't really call it necessary), then build up enough forces (including most of your Ethiopian army), then start on Yugoslavia. Annex Albania as well, if you haven't had the events already. Then, when strong enough, invade Greece. You'll gain a foothold for the future invasion of Turkey, and, through that route (if you choose to align with the Axis especially), the oil fields in the Armenian/Azerbaijani area. Puppet as many provinces as you can that are unnecessary, as you don't want a huge load on your TC. Make sure you always have a route to the homeland as well. It might seem obvious, but you'll have a hell of a time using transports, especially when WWII starts.
Alternatively, you could go for Turkey right away, but I don't recommend it personally. Much better for your Generals (and Navy) to go by land, in my opinion.
What's your view on the Axis?
Out of your list, I'd say all the European countries must be annexed: Albania is just a waste of time if you don't, and Yugo and Greece cause you to go to war with Germany when they eventually (and it seems to always do if they exist, scripted) declare on Greece or Yugo and they're your puppet.
My game is a bit strange right now: I annexed Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, Albania, Greece. Defeated both Spanish factions, Portugal, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria. Took my territory in Yugo, freed Ethiopia, Somalia, Angola, Saudi Arabia. Puppeted Spain (Rep), took La Coruna and Zaragoza. Took all of Portugal's European lands (apart from Lisbon) their W African lands, and East Timor + Macau. Bulgaria helped me against Yugoslavia, then turned on me when the script forced them to attack Yugo, my puppet. Germany didn't, somehow, which is good news. They did chop up Yugo with their buddies, though.
My belligerence is very high, I've got nice technology, very bad relations with the ALlies but no war, and very little troops aside from the originals: just a few tank divs.
ANy idea if the allies proceed with operation Husky if you're not at war yet?
You're Italy, right?
I'd suggest the Historical Stony Road to War as it is my mod of choice. It offers a great deal of events, and at least somewhat forces you to behive mildly historically. It also makes the game harder.
When playing Italy, the main objective is to set up a good navy, a good naval bombardment force, and a fast-moving army (mainly motorized, mechanized and armoured divisions, cavalry divisions with attached light armour are good too), then take North Africa by storm. Paras are also useful, especially if you can arrange for Military Access with Spain so you can take Gibraltar.
It is best that you go for Albania first (despite it's suckyness, it is a good base of operations), then get involved in the war (remember to stack sufficent troops in North Africa). Once at war, it is best to go Gibraltar, Malta, Suez. With those three in your hands, you are free to dominate. First, Yugoslavia, then Greece, then Iraq (for the oil), then maybe Turkey. Generally, you are not supposed to go after Spain ... but, it is a standard action when playing Italy.
It's been a while since I played vanilla, but the attacks are not scripts per se, but rather parts of AI behaviour modes, such as the Seelowe and Barbarossa behaviour modes for the Germans, etc. But, yes, they will happen, always. I don't know whether they will attack you when not at war, but remember, they can declare war, and they might do so, despite all assurances, as I've found out. And if you've got a high belligerence, it is even more likely. Sometimes the AI will declare war, sometimes it won't.
The Stony Road mod makes it more fun, and a lot more difficult playing various minor factions (especially Italy, you get a pretty big penalty to morale and organization when you get involved in the war), the AI is also better, actually building fleets (a big flaw of the vanilla AI), and recieving troops through events (the empty North Africa ceases to be empty).
Sounds pretty scary: my navy is getting ripped up as it is. Anyway, isn't this supposed to be alternate reality?
In my opinion Italy should concentrate on airpower. About 16 CAS squadrons should be enough to both negate the Allied airpower and destroy their land forces in the mobile battles of North Africa. I remember stopping a massive American advance from Marocco with only airpower, while my army was engaged in Sudan. I must have destroyed over a 100 divisions in about a year's battles. So I recommend investing heavily on airpower to dominate the Mediterranean.
But surely to destroy aircraft you want tacticals?
Personally I use TACs and those 7 damage to soft target ones.. Strategic bombers?
I'd actually suggest going for Gibraltar and then taking the Suez before shooting for Malta, especially if Crete is still in British hands. Cutting off the supply route to whatever forces left behind by the British (or other) navies is quite a victory, and generally, they'll sit at Malta, waiting to be bombed to pieces as they desperately try to repair the damage they sustain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
Oops, I meant negating allied naval power. For air superiority Interceptors should do nicely. But overall a strong airforce is perhaps the most cost-effective way to project power with Italy. In cost-effectiveness a INT/CAS based force is both cost effective and insanelt powerful. ~:)
CAS units by themselves are insanely powerful. Route a unit, bomb them as they run, rinse, repeat. I won the second Sino-Japanese war with only infantry and CAS planes, not counting a few fighters for supremacy, before the US oil embargo...and I had half as many divisions as Nat China at the start of the war.
Well, to be fair, National China has units with something like 15 org.
By the way, does anyone have the 9 centuries long campaign? 1066-1953, Crusader Kings to Doomsday.
No ... that is insanely long.
Naturally, I have started one in CK, but had to format my hard-drive, and forgot to save the save-game file.
I'll get around to it, I just have to get Vicky.
I rarely use air units in HoI2, except naval bombers and interceptors. The interceptors mainly provide cover for my more vulnerable industrial areas, while the navals take out anything that floats and does not bear friendly colours. I had one bombardment group (4 squadrons) that took down 6 US carriers (light carriers, but carriers still) ... that was when I decided that I loved those things.
Except for that, I tend to advance too quickly for other air units to be of any use. Though I have yet to learn to keep a stable front, since my infantry is far too slow to keep up. I might experiment with a motorized holding infantry my next German campaign (I'm busy with an Italian and French one right now).
As a question, what are the combinations you use for breaking through? I mainly use tank armies (6 tank divisions, outfitted with additional batallions) and armies (2 tank divisions, 1 HQ, 6 mechanized infantry, all with additional batallions) ... I have to say, those things cost a lot to upkeep, but they kick ass.
At the start, yes, but it increases as you go, of course. Besides, my CAS planes weren't bombing their org to pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
I usually use a combination of tank divisions and MI with Infantry as support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
This is because the CAS are mostly meant to destroy strength, and Tactical Bombers are used to Destroy Org.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
I mostly rely on Tactical Bombers to work in coordination with my Army when attacking a province, and CAS when the enemy are retreating. Utterly Devastating.
Although I've never really used Strategic Bombers because they cost so **** much IC.
Uh...yeah. That's...why I said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi
It sounded like your were implying that you were using your CAS to target their Org.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
Well Soft/Hard Attack is used for determining org damage, so infact CAS is actually superior to TAC's in Interdiction.
It says above that I used the CAS meatgrinder tactic to cripple China. Can't happen if I interdict the troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi
haha. I realized that after rereading your post several times, I guess the information didn't quite compute in my brain. :laugh4:
Doesn't increase incredibly quickly though, I would think, since the research teams of China aren't exactly top-notch.
No, but once most of China's troops aren't '18 quality, a considerable difference is made.
Doesn't China start off with '36 armies? They're also pretty much invincible as well it seems.. I've annexed MengKuKuo without a loss yet.
By the way, would anyone recommend nuclear research?
IIRC; Nationalist China starts off with infantry model 1918, Japan starts with '36. Eventually, the Chinese become a nuisance, which is why an early rush is recommended. In the HSR mod which I lately play, China tends to be a major pain for the Japs, they get a fortification line in the mountains, making the conquest a major problem without massive resources, something which Japan tends to be short on.
Nuclear research. Oh, Gods, yes ... it swallows a lot of time and industry (the reactors cost some, 60 or more IC to build and take about six months, you need a lvl 6 to start building the bombs), but when you get them ... ouch. First off, it sends the enemy's dissent into the stratosphere ... also, in vanilla it causes partisans to form in enemy territory (about 10% per nuke dropped). I'd recommend research missiles also. Strap a nuke to a missile and bomb his city ... nothing can stop it. I'm rambling, back to the matter at hand. A nuke permanently destroys industry (a fairly random number, but over half, usually 2/3), as well as any installations present (such as ports, airfields, etc), or rather, it reduces them greatly, but they can be completely destroyed. However, the victory points of the bombed province (if is has any) is reduced to one. Best employed on the USA, several nuke attacks will devastate them, especially in close order. I don't think they affect units, but I'm not sure. Aircraft are a goner for sure, I'm not sure about ground or naval units.
They usually take out a decent portion of a unit. The most I've seen is around half to three quarters strength gone plus a good amount of organization. That could have been from a tactical/dive bombing campaign earlier, so I'll need to check. They do effect units in some way, I'm fairly sure.
They do take out units; just not as effective as the scene of a mushroom cloud would appear to be.
Aircrafts are goner since they're the weakest, and usually the air bases are damaged too badly for them to survive. Land and navy won't suffer half as much, though.
My favorite anti-USA tactic is massing a nuclear arsenal and unleash them all at once on the industrial coastal cities. The USA goes down really quickly if you could get close enough to do that.
USSR, however, appears to be one of those nations where even a dozen nukes wouldn't cause The Revolution. Dunno why. Hate it.
Commie China starts off with '36 though, I believe. :thumbsup:
Indeed they do. China eventually swamps them too, unless bad things happen to China.