thats really impressive. thanks econ and good work tincow. i tip my hat to you both. everyhting looks a hell of alot better now.
Printable View
thats really impressive. thanks econ and good work tincow. i tip my hat to you both. everyhting looks a hell of alot better now.
Sweet! :2thumbsup: Excellent work, TinCow!
Historically, Coruncanius and Laevinius were the Consuls of the time. Lucius Aemilius was a consul, but much later, at around 218 and 216 BCE. His daughter married Scipio Africanus Majorus, and his grandson was adopted by him.
Seeing how Quintus has no surname (cognomen I think) he should be fictional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
3 cheers for Simon and Tincow! :2thumbsup:
I am not sure I can do it but I am thinking of modding the start files so that our four existing family members start with some of Marcus Camillus's new Roman leadership traits. It seems strange that when a new mature member is spawned - e.g. a husband - they come with some traits (military experience, studentship) and yet we have old generals in command of armies with a blank slate.
If anyone has tried out this mod and played on for a few years (TinCow? DDW?) , I wonder if you could upload a savegame I could look at? I'd like to see what traits the new members have.
I'm inclined to make all 4 existing members have had studentships, military experience and be ex-tribunes. The two with field armies I would make legates; the other two I would make ex-legates. If players with those avatars would rather not have those traits - e.g. they want to have to really work for them - let me know. But AFAIK, there's no downside.
I can't currently access my save games and won't be able to till next Monday, sorry. However, I can confirm that the starting 4 never advance down the student->military->governorship path. I suspect this is because they don't start with the Student trait, so it never advances. However, I've noticed that family members who marry in or are adopted ARE spawned with a variety of the traits. They're not perfect (I had a 16 year old who was a legate with 4 years of military service!) but at least they work.
That's very useful to know, thanks - it makes modding them in pretty essential, unless we are to roleplay a bunch of old duffers!Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Hi,
It seems Marcus Camillus is planning to release RTRPE 1.5 later today. Not sure if he'll get it done before he leaves for his vacation however. I'm undecided if we want to use this, coming at the last moment and all that. More details follow should he make his release.
Also, there is a new update of metronaval mode (Update2), which includes
1. BI's torches from adonys
2. Stuie's AI Command Bonus (Gives the AI a command bonus, Reduces morale by 25% for all units).
3. changed descr_mercenaries.txt (cheaper mercenaries)
I suspect (1) will not work for those like us who only have RTW and not BI, but it should not cause a problem also, you just won't have torches on night battles, but I will have to check into that. I thought (2) was already included in the fixes I listed, but it seems I was wrong. Some mercenaries are ridiculously expensive, hence (3).
I dumped all my savegames because of all the testing with different configs, but I distinctly remember a starting character getting the governmentship of Latium. As far as I understand, the military and goverment traits should work for the starting characters. This was with 4TPY mod 1.8 however, so I might be wrong.
Off topic: The AI WILL leave the city during a siege if it sees an oppurtunity. Yesterday he made a cavalry sortie from a side gate and laid waste to three units of velites before I noticed what was going on. You have been warned.
Wow, looks like this will be going up to the wire. Let's see how things stand when we've elected the First Consul tomorrow. Needless to say, they should hold off starting their reign until we've agreed on versions etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
PS: We seem to have a lot of undecideds or wait n sees in the First Consul election. Lots of votes on the motions, not many on the candidates. Poll closes 6pm UK time Friday.
According to the family tree, we three are sons-in law of Quintus, but I agree to treat them as four distint families. I rather worry that Quintus will nor produce any more offspring however, thus rendering his family extinct eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I didnt realise that we coudl vote for consul. I was under the impression the voting started today. Oh well.
I think giving the existing characters some traits would be a good idea. Even you just picked a handful at random. Just to make things more interesting. I mean my character is in his thirties and has only 4 traits and a single ancilliary to show for his 20 or so years of service.
Simon, I definately think you should look into adding some career traits to our 4 starting avatars.
Well, TinCow in the Senate Library has put Tricky_Lady's character as being Quintus's daughter. I don't know what she thinks, but I rather like that. So we will still have four distinct families, but Quintus's bloodline need not die out, even if his family name does (not a big problem, really,as he does not have a family name!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
Four fictional Roman gentes maiores eh? That could work quite well. At least we have one actual gentes maiores, Aemilius.
Tricky_Lady: Could you state what kind of husband you're looking for? Someone strong in command, management or influence? Or do you want a weakling who can be manipulated easily?
OK, I've had a look at one of DDWs savegames - its 8 turns on from the start and as TinCow reported, none of the four original faction members have any of the new Roman leadership traits. The two new generals do.
The good news is that in the descr_strat.txt in the zipped version of Marcus_Camillus's mod, the gang of four do have some of these traits - at least the military experience ones - whereas in the descr_strat.txt that results from my installing these metro&naval mod, they don't. So it should be straightforward to cut and paste from the relevant bits so the four at least start with some military experience.
Only the First Consul will have to worry about this at the first instance, so we can wait another day to see if anything new emerges and then take stock, doing a little minor modding of our own if the problem is still there. The First Consul can then be the guinea pig.
Just a little warning to the future first consul. I've been testing the engine some more. If you get as far as Messana, Carthage will come a'knocking, and the naval invasions work just fine, thank you very much. I must say that landing a full stack of hoplites to intercept just one of my units was a tad overkill by the AI, but effective. Gawds. I've been stuck in Messana for 15 seasons already, getting nowhere, just building up my strength. The fact that you only have three unit-producing cities is a severe limitation on what you can actually accomplish in 20 seasons.
Why worry about Carthage yet, true, we will need to be careful about her increasing power, but the priority is the defeat of Pyrrhus, in which I fully support Senator Quintus.
There's an error in the motions poll, It says under motion 5 that DDW proposed it, where i was the one in the thread to propose it.
Will we actually be able to support a whole system of forts manned by at least Praetorian armies?
I think we will be hardpressed to station a decent garrison (say 4 units) in all out cities and supporting our troops. We will need decent garrisons, otherwise a local rebel uprising might attack one of our unwalled cities before we can do anything about it. We will only be able to recruit 3 maniples every season. Saying we take Corfinium, Paestum, Rhegium, Armenium, Arretium, Tarentum and Croton, we will need to recruit 7 * 4 = 28 units / 3 = 9.33. So it will take us 2 1/2 years just to recruit decent garrisons for our conquests. Then of course there are war losses, and the recruiting of 2 new legions, each of which consists of 11 unit-building time. So, if we do not suffer any major defeats, we just might be able to recruit the necessary troops in 5 years.
Carthage – I agreed with Ignoramus that we don’t have to worry about them yet, none of the proposals currently authorise an invasion of Sicily but only the amalgamation of Italy into the Republic……….to be honest I see a period of consolidation after this fast expansion and we’ll have many more than just three troop producing cities at the point we do cross the straits.
Garrisons - Have to admit that I know nothing about RTR, have never played it so my knowledge and hence advise about what we can support is likely to be out. However from DDW’s figures I don’t think that 5 years is too long if that’s how long it takes to ensure Italy is “secured” before moving on…..
……”Rome wasn’t built in a day” after all and, say we have captured the additional SEVEN settlements DDW mentions above in quite short order – say 2-3 years –, surely a longer period of stabilisation, building and securing is the normal thing in any game of Rome?
Remember I am giving players the options of modding down the bandit and pirate spawn rate. I am certainly going to do that, as detailed on post #2 here. In the past, my RTR and EB games as the Romans have been as much about fighting tiny stacks of rebels as fighting enemy armies - I don't want to do that this time round. It doesn't feel realistic and it's not fun.
But I think a system of forts would add to the realism: according to the "true Roman" guide, Roman armies typically did not garrison cities. It's not quite clear what we should use as garrisons - there's no "town guard" type unit. I'd be inclined to use a mix of infantry - just as our historical pre-Marian armies are going to be mixed - so we can shuffle them around to make up losses as need be.
In my most recent game, I used forts as holding areas for all the very depleted units that I would gradually call upon to top up the stacks in my armies. They were kind of staging areas, where I could put together a collection of replacements that a Tribune would march to the front. Remember, we can't retrain to make up losses and, as DDW says, RTR stops you recruiting in recently captured areas, so shuffling replacements and reinforcements to the front is going to be an important part of the game. Captains move slower than generals in this mod, so it may be efficient to assign some family members to these supply chains. Forts would also allow generals to keep adding military experience (indeed, I think it probably was partly Marcus Camillus's intention when designing his traits system to encourage armies not to loiter in cities).
Overtime, I think we should move to a system where, at least among the lower house, governors are the older experienced family members (ex-generals etc get influence bonuses), but the younger ones are working on their military careers. Upper House members might be suitable as Tribunes (ie second general in a full stack) if young and governors if older. But if the Upper House members want to move down into the Lower House at some stage, we should develop their military careers too.
I agree 5 years is a realistic period. This will most like end up in 6-7 years if we indeed put a small garrison in each city. It will stretch our resources to the very limit to build enough Auxilia building to actually expand our troop building capacity. Buildings are hideously expensive, and rightly so.
A 4-unit garrison can withstand a small force which might land at our coasts behind the lines. It also has the added benifit of supressing unrest (only a real problem in the greek colonies). I generally garrison with italian spear and swordsmen in equal numbers, as they are cheap, yet effective.
I find that a city with a garrison smaller than 4 units tends to act as a irresistable magnet to any enemy army nearby. The rebels tend not to attack cities very often, but they do. A small garrison in each city prevents the domino-effect, where you get blitzed by the AI. These garrisons are expensive, but we can afford it.
I also station praetorian legions in strategic locations in forts with generals. This also helps to keep down the rebels.
Having said all this, I think troop management is the responsibility of the first consul and he should do as he sees fit.
I agree with Econ21, they brought Cincinnatus out of retirement to be Dictator when he was 80 years old, so I don't have a problem with venerable senators leading armies. I recommend following the guide of Conduct concerning generals.
Absolutely, but players are rather constrained by the historical armies guidelines. It's hard to do at the beginning, as we have lots of Romans and few Italians. But over time, half the stacks should be Italians or other allies/auxilia, with the right proportions of the different Roman infantry etc. It should not be too much of a problem, because - as you say - the non-Romans are cheaper and are still servicable. (The Italian swordsmen are very like hastati).Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
I think the historical armies are fun from a gameplay point of view, because you end with such a varied roster, about 10 different unit types in a single stack. It means you have lots of fun battlefield decisions to make - e.g. where should the allies go? who should the one or two missile and cavalry units target? etc where are the princeps most needed?
RTR PE 1.5 is now out:
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...owtopic=20459#
I'm going to play around with it and then create a savegame that the First Consul can use to start this PBM.
By the way, we should put priority to capturing Greece or Carthage, for their units :2thumbsup:
Simon, DDW & TinCow, as I’ve just mentioned on another thread I’m completely impressed with this PBM you’re running, the very concept of player involvement is wonderful.
I hope to be able to emulate it in the future. Basically though, I’m finding the array of mods you’re using bewildering to me. I don’t even know where to start to change my Rome version 1.5 over to RTR, let along amend the relevant data files that are listed here.
Anyway, I’m never “that” confident in modding my own files and partitioning save games/Mods like you – we’ve discussed this on PM.
However, what I would like to achieve is a less complex version of your PBM for more entry level PBM’ers – so at the very least I’m looking at using RTR so I can have a Senate of players. See the blatant plagiarism here?
Perhaps it may even be something you’d consider starting once this PBM is well under way? Personally, I can’t undertake my own proposal until I’ve upgraded my PC, which is after I’ve moved home…which is whenever the surveyor gets back to me!....sorry, won’t rant about that issue here.
So, just to say I utterly LOVE this basic idea – Senate control, auto-resolve battles unless there is a PC (Player Character) physically involved, voting, political discussion….all that is just great! As an NPC (Non-Player Character), I’m really enjoying myself just as a member of the Upper Senate….I shudder to think how much MORE fun I’d have if I had a chance of actually conducting a battle now and then.:2thumbsup:
Well done all involved here, I salute you. This PBM is a “benchmark” for all other PBM’s to work by.
As far as I can see, this will not relieve our patchwork. As the changes in RTR 1.5 are not specfically for metronavalmod, all this changes in my list of installing is :Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
REPLACE :
3. Install the Corrected_RTR_Platinum_Files_v2.0.zip
Files belong in \Data
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...c=18768&st=120
WITH :
3. Install RTR 1.5 patch.
http://www.beaglepc.net/rome/downloa...v1.5_Patch.exe
Also, we should add between step (5) and (6) :
5A. Install Update2 for METROPOLIS & NAVALMOD by Snake_IV
Unzip these files and add them MANUALLY in \Data
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...pic=20000&st=0
That's all I can say from work.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden
As the Senate Fixer, I would be glad to help you with getting it all up and running. I can see it would be a bit bewildering at first, but the truth is, it is actually quite easy. Most of the modifications concern text files in the \Data directory. The rest is just a matter of downloading and installing. I'll be glad to answer any specfic questions you might have.
On the matter of starting a new PBM, don't let me stop you. I personally would not play a RTW 1.2 game anymore, as the improvements in 1.5 as so good, there's no going back for me :) I'll probably sit in the upper house if you were to run a RTR 6 gold game for example.
On the matter of playing, once this campaign is well underway, more avatars will be available and you will be able to get some 'action' as it were :)
Thanks for the advice, DDW. Based on what you say, I have updated post #2 with how I intend to install the mod.
I will start the campaign, immediately save a game and then upload the save to the Org. It would be good if when you get home, you download the save and see if it works fine on your install.
Braden: I understand how you feel about installing mods. As you can see from this thread, it's particularly confusing in this case as we are essentially using beta mods and they keep changing. There is some light at the end of the tunnel, though, as Marcus Camillus has proposed locking down the final version of Platinum and then letting people do their own thing with any further mods.
On doing another PBM, my inclination would be to let this one and your Carthaginian one play out for a while. The pool of potential players is only so big. And this one is very much a prototype so while the ideas in it sound really good, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating!
I feel confident that once RTR Platinum has been finalised will use that as a basis for a PBM. I, like DDW, would never go back to anything running under version 1.2 of Vanilla – I personally found the Load/Save bug intolerable.
My current PBM plans are:
1. Maintain focus and momentum in the current Carthage 1.5 PBM.
2. Play Test to establish an “entry level” PBM (BI or Rome 1.5, undecided)
3. Plan ahead (looking a month or so) to a RTR Platinum PBM using similar (though simplified) rules to this Senate one.
I’m not going to overstretch the player base by committing to the my RTR PBM until this RTR PBM is well underway – looking August/September perhaps.
I want to keep my “entry level” PBM quite small, stipulating it is for beginners to PBM’s – hence it will have some specific rules but nothing too complex (perhaps using a more familiar faction), whilst keeping the core game at a VH/Medium setting to challenge the players who are good at the vanilla game but looking for a new challenge. Again though, the start of this will not be for a good few weeks.
Can I suggest trying to play another mod Braden? I think after one RTR Roman PBM, the PBM community will prefer to try another mod or another faction. Or, if you do want a Roman RTR PBM badly, we could always download a mod for RTR and use that in the PBM.
Currently I'm considering all options for my third PBM. I'll keep everyone posted and, I'm sure, ask for help when I select what mod I need to run! lol
Thats not a very realistic role-playing target though is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
I think itd be pretty nice to start a PBM that uses Myrdraals script. It would be a three person PBM using RTW Vanilla 1.5 (perhaps with some small mods) and each player would play one of the three Roman factions. I think itd be really interesting to see them truly jokey for power and then finally turn on eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden
Or my other idea was to play a PBM with five or so people again with Myrdraals script. Each player could choose whatever faction they wanted. Then after a given amount of time (5-10 years) the players would be reassigned a new faction at random. The reassignments would continue to happen throughout the game.
I have done what I hope is my "final" install of all the mods we need for this PBM. I have explained the procedures in grisly detail in post #2.
But in principle, the sequence I followed is simple. First install RTR Platinum Edition (PE) 1.5. Then install Metropolis and Naval (MN) mod. Finally there's a little add-on to put some landblocks in.
The complications stem from the fact that the MN mod is older than the PE one, so I think it is over-writing some important files. This causes the problem that we noted about starting Roman generals not having the military experience they need to get all those cool new Roman leadership traits. I hope that this will get sorted out by the RTR people in due course.
However, as a work around, I have given instructions to download the latest EDU file (the one that determines unit stats) and a DESCR_STRAT file (the one that determines the starting characters and units) that I have modded to put in the lost military experience.
Candidates for First Consul may like to know that these are the additional traits that Marcus Camillus assigned to them:
Quintus - 25 years military experience, former consul (+4 influence)
Publius Laevinus - 10 years military experience, former tribune (+1 influence)
Tiberius Coruncanius - 8 years military experience, former tribune (+1 influence)
Lucius Amelius - 7 years military experience, former tribune (+1 infuence)
Note that experience is basically a function of age (although when the game starts, you will have to avoid staying in settlements for more than one turn to gain experience). The former tribune trait is a precondition for being a legate.
I am going to upload my 280 BC savegame, senate280v.zip, for DDW to try out. If it works and he approves my installation procedure as explained in post#2, then we are ready to go once we have the election result 6pm today.
I must confess I am apprehensive that we are going to encounter technical problems as we play this mod. :sweatdrop: That's the price of choosing a beta mod to play. But hopefully we will find work arounds. We have some plusses on our side:
(1) Marcus Camillus, the man responsible for the leadership traits, will be joining us after 6 June.
(2) Most updates to the mods we are using seem to be savegame compatible (that's a biggie)
(3) If the worst comes to the worst, we may have to reload and replay some years - we'll just have to be flexible.
Shifty157, PM or email some details and links regarding Myrdraals script. I know nothing of it but the concept sounds interesting though perhaps too narrowed in base, would be ideal for a “friends” game though rather than a Forum based game.
- sorry everyone, seems I’m monopolising the forums today!
I've read your modifications and they seem fine. Why would you have a problem with rapidshare ?Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I won't be home till 7 or 8 pm, but I'll reinstall and try it out then. I must express some confidence here. I do not really expect any problems or CTDs. The stability so far has been examplary.
Upcoming interesting (save-compatible) bugfix :
Fix for cathapract archers that are acting wierd.
I think it is something to do with my using a router so I don't have a fixed ISP address (I have a dynamic one, whatever that means). Consequently, Rapidshare stops me downloading because they think I've downloaded too much when in fact it is other people. I had to pay some Euros to get a premium account in order to download the Metro&Naval mod. I wish Macedonn would find another way of uploading his mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
I've saved a game - am about to upload it now. Don't worry about testing it quickly. BTW, I was going to go into a rant on the RTR boards about negative population growth, then I realised I had not deleted the *.rwm files! (easy to do when you are incrementally testing installs).
Quick query: how do people feel about the length of this Senate session?
Here's the schedule we followed:
Monday 6pm: session opens
Wednesday 6pm: deadline for motions and First Consul nominations; voting starts
Friday 6pm: voting ends
I think this timetable was long enough - was it too long? I'm thinking ahead to the next full session of Senate and election of next First Consul. We've agreed the mid-term will be shorter (2 days debate/proposing motions/1 day voting).
I think it was probably ok, but I feel that the last day or so has dragged. How about a 24 hour voting period? On reflection, I guess I'm really proposing extending the mid-term model for all sessions - 2 days debate; 1 day voting.
It's not a big issue, but maintaining momentum is key in PBMs and so if people feel we could hurry things up a little, I'm all for it.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64876Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden
Its really rather simple to set up and it works with any mod at all.
I think a 5 day week is entirely appropriate. It allowed us to have a rather nice, in-depth debate on the issues yet was long enough to bring it to a close eventually. We have to embrace the fact that this is a PBM (is it even right to call it that anymore?) that will span many months. I easily forsee this going 6 months, perhaps longer. That's assuming people hang around for it and it doesn't die off like a lot of normal PBMs do. That's the aspect econ21 was cautioning Braden about as well: this looks nice now, but we can't call it a success until we're a month or two in and everything is still working properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Master econ, after reading post #2 I've noticed you mentioned Iberia twice in your list of factions to be destroyed. Once as Iberia, another time as Spain.
I am suggesting a combat rule. If you get reinforcements in battle and the reinforcements do not have an avatar assigned, they should be assigned to computer control, with the exception when you are sieging a city.
I myself find it quite amusing to have to anticipate an unpredictable AI as an ally. What do you think ?
I agree DDW
As for the senate, I felt it dragged a little. Got a little bored with the endless arguments about the minutae of the conflict with Greece...Maybe 3 days deliberation?
Better still: put mercenaries, unless the commanding officer of the army has a 'mercenary captain' ancillary, under computer control. After all, you just paid them to fight. Not to fight your way. Just fight.
Just a tiny technical point :
Optional setting: brigand_spawn_value 50 pirate_spawn_value 60 [1]
is not optional as it is set in the descr_strat.txt in senate.zip :)
I say remove 'Optional setting' from the sentence and leave it as it is as :
a) There is much argument is setting this helps anyway.
b) If it helps that's fine by me.
More technical hubris :
Sanky has released his EDU fix for cavalry units (1.5 & M&N compatible)
http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/i...howtopic=20472
Interesting, but not crucial. Will just let that ferment for a couple of days and see what the response is.
Well, done reinstalling. Let's see if this works...
Econ21, I am for short discussing and voting periods. I'm in favour of 2 days discussion and 1 day voting. This will keep pace with the 2-day required post of the first consul. Good luck, by the way :)
I like your way of thinking Tiberius, but it think that would be undoable in practice and I feel the generals had a bit more control over their mercenaries than that.
OK, I have not started yet, so I will download the lastest EDU. I'm not sure to what extent we can keep updating EDUs as we play, but I suspect we can. I guess that means I have to change the library table with the Romans' stats.
I agree think non-siege reinforcements should be AI controlled if led by captains - I'll add that to the rules. But let's leave the mercs under our control. Mercs seem hideously expensive in this mod, so I'm not sure they will be a major part of our forces and making them uncontrollable might just rule out them being bought entirely.
Drat drat drat, I get a CTD when I attack Pyrrhus his army. I will investigate in more detail tomorrow. My attack on Corfinium went without a glitch. Not sure what the problem could be.
It's doable, DDW. Select the mercenaries in the battle map,m and click 'put under AI assistance' button on the right.
Silly me for not thinking of that. I would leave that up to the player's decision. I can imagine some scenarios where that might work, and some where it might cause disaster. For example, where I to recruit a large group a srmatian horse archers, I would be tempted to led them be lead by the AI in battle.
Hi,
The CTD is definitely caused by having a battle on the battlefield when attacking Pyrrhus when he is stationed in Rhegium. Everything else works fine. No clue where the problem lies. I will try out some different configs today and try to figure out what the problem is.
Good luck tracking down the bug, DDW. You cost me half a night's sleep last night - I had just saved the game where I was about to give battle to Pyrrhus and was going to bed, when I read how attacking him had led your game to crash. :sweatdrop: So I just had to go back to it and see if it was playable. It was, fortunately, but I'll be anxious approaching Rhegium.
It's good if some people play parallel games to this PBM, especially if there are tech problems like this we may stumble over. Fore-warned is fore-armed, as they say. :2thumbsup:
I am a muppet.
I took lots of screenshots last night, but the default directory FRAPS saved them in was for an older install that I had deleted. So they are all gone. :wall:
Shame - there were some great shots of elephants smashing into hastati and Pyrrhus and Quintus locked in hand to hand combat. ~:mecry:
Shame about the screenhsots, but good to hear you're being so succesfull on the battlefield.
The link to sho's latest edu gives a file called : export_descr_unitmn.txt
I am assuming this needs to overwrite export_descr_unit.txt ?
Hi,
Well I'm done testing. I tried several configs, and the problem is not Pyrrhus his army, but Rhegium itself.
I downloaded your interrim savegame and assaulted Rhegium with the army stationed in Croton which resulted in a CTD again. Attacking anywhere else on the map gives no problems. When I attack Rhegium with RTR 1.4 and metronaval mod, it gives no problems. It seems that the combination of RTR 1.5 and metronaval mod is the problem.
Now, I am running RTW, and do not have BI installed. Could anyone verify that attacking Rhegium causes a CTD for them as well ? Otherwise the problem could be mine alone.
Yes, good point about the EDU - I've clarified that in post #2 now.
On Rhegium, does it crash if you auto-resolve? If you siege them out? I'll try it out myself, although it may take a while.
Edit: I noticed on the RTR forums, in the thread on MN for PE, Macedonn acknowledges the missing Roman traits problem with descr_strat.txt that we noticed. He says he uploaded the wrong file and posts the right one. I wonder if using the right one fixes the Rhegium crash?
Just FYI, I'm out of town for the weekend and thus won't have much time to update the bios. Be assured that I will ass all pictures and info updates to the Library no later than Monday evening.
Yes, I noticed that myself. I does not make any difference. Basically, his changes are the same you made yourself. Autoresolve does work, but of course, the casualties will be high. Sieging them out makes no difference, fighting a battle at the city of Rhegium on the battlefield causes the CTD. For the hell of it, I also tried a night attack, but that makes no difference. I think it must be something to do with generating the battlefield and the geography. Perhaps a terrain file is missing or corrupted. Still, this is the only problem, and quite possibly might be only occuring with my system, so it's not all that important. Should my avatar get involved in a battle that causes a CTD, I'll pass the savegame along to someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I will try it Rhegium on my savegame, DDW, but I am waiting to hear from FLYDUDE first. I'm reluctant to do a "dummy run", as it takes some of the fun out of playing my reign for real.
Tiberius: I am assigning you TinCow's previous avatar - Amulius Coruncanius, as we've found an adult for TinCow. Overtime, I am going to make sure everyone has an adult.
If any member of the Upper House wants a diplomat, you should lobby for his recruitment in the Senate. Antio Sextius is going walkabout, so one closer to home would be justifiable.
TrickyLady's character has married an amazing young fighter - I'm trying to persuade her to eventually step down to the Lower House or to liberate him for another Lower House player, as it seems a waste not to let him fight.
Im curious to see how all of the charcters progressed. Can you post screenshots?
:sweatdrop: Sending me to the Lower House? :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I better get my RTW box off the shelf if you want me to play a turn. Let's just wait & see. :wink2:
PS. Thanks for linking me to a strong character. I would be happy to see a screenshot of this fighting youngster.
TrickyLady - your character's screenshot is in the Senate library. The key thing about being a Lower House member is not just that you might take a reign - it's that you may be asked to fight a battle in another person's reign at 48 hours notice. There's no urgency at the moment, as we have more Lower House people than generals and you character is still rather young to take a field command. But your man really does seem to be marked for greatness and it would be a shame not to use him eventually.
TinCow will update the other screenshots when he returns to his computer, but IIRC they have not changed much so far. I am going to post a savegame Senate278s.zip later tonight that Lower House members can download to find out how their characters have changed.
EDIT: With the latest version of the Metropolisis and Naval mod out, I've revised the installation instructions in post #2 yet again. I realise this constant patching is a pain for Lower House members, but the revisions do help with some minor bugs. What I recommend is that whoever becomes First Consul reinstall the mod when they take office. But other Lower House members can probably patch as they go along (I just installed the latest MN over my existing installation and then did the last 2 steps again).
EDIT: I also get the CTD that DDW reported when I attack Rhegium. Grrrr... I am going to load my prebattle save as Rhegium.zip. Anyone with the mod installed can try it and see if they also get the CTD.
You night try to lure them out of the city by posting a lone unit just outside as bait and your army just beyond that. Then your army can reinforce the lone unit if it gets attacked. The rebels will not attack you however. If the battlefield does not figure the city of Rhegium there are no problems. Otherwise autoresolve seems to be the only way out of this conundrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
I'm a little confused how we can lure them out if they can't move. I know the rebel generals in cities have traits that make them immovable (and unbribable).
I am currently installing PE 1.4 and seeing if I can play out the rhegium save on that, save again and go back to 1.5.
EDIT: no, it still crashes. Autoresolving seems to be the only option left.
There is the possibilty of waiting for Rhegium to be taken over by another faction and luring them out. It is of course theoretical in the current scenario. I was able to play the battle at Rhegium by intalling RTRPE 1.4 and the previous M&N mod. It seems the new install contains the critical flaw as well. I see you have reacted to my posts in tech support about this, good work.
Can you play out "my" battle at Rhegium on your 1.4 install, DDW? ie download the rhegium.zip and fight the battle manually? Or are you referring to your own earlier battles at Rhegium.
If you can play out "my" battle, you might try doing that, saving it as rhegium2.zip and uploading it. I could try to play on from there. What do you think?
Autoresolve is brutal, although if we have to go that route, I would bring up more men before doing it. I don't think we can wait for another faction to take it - they are too weak, in my experience.
I agree Rhegium must be taken one way or the other. I am an idiot :wall: as I realise that I've overwritten the 'previous' M&N mod with the new one. Still, I will give it a try anyway and see what happens.
It's ok - DDW - don't worry about it. I don't think my save will work on an older install of MN. It did not work for me anyway. I can take Rhegium by autoresolve and it's not so painful. I think I will do that.
Too late now, I already did it :laugh4:
The trick ended up being only RTR 1.4 and M&N, NOT the updates. Adding the updates causes the CTD at Rhegium. I lost 44 men and rhegium2.zip is available in the upload directory. I am a tiny bit worried about savegame compatibility, so I advise you to load, then save again immediately, quit the game and load it again. That should probably clear up any hidden problems.
By the way, it seems someone has gotten the 'Favour of the Gods' ! *Insane jealousy carefully hidden*.
I know I'm horribly spamming, please excuse me, but just had to show that a 4-unit garrison is sufficient to hold of a Gaul army :) :
https://img502.imageshack.us/img502/...mall3gx.th.jpg
So was that just a bit of flanking fun or are you some kind of strategic genius?
Thanks for helping with the Rhegium problem, DDW. :2thumbsup:
Impressive - but tell me, is that on autoresolve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
Well i would assume considering the utter lack of casualties on the roman side that the gaul must have been composed almost entirely of peasants or some equivalent unit. Otherwise the Gauls in this mod are incredibly underpowered. More underpowered than even RTW vanilla.Quote:
Originally Posted by Death the destroyer of worlds
How large were the Gaulish units? If they were in excess of 100 men per unit each then this means the gauls had only 5 or 6 units. Hardly a sizeable advantage over your own forces.
Um, maybe I should dig out their stats. I don't believe they are more underpowered than even RTW vanilla. In RTR Gold, I fought a battle with 1 stack of Romans against about 2 stacks of Gauls. It was horrific - everyone died virtually to a man - I only won by using cavalry charges to the rear. Morale has been reduced in the mod we are playing but it gave me a new respect for Gauls.Quote:
Originally Posted by shifty157
Yeah i was thinking the same thing. Thats why i say that DDWs battle couldnt have included gauls of anything above peasant status to have so few casualties.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
That's wierd, is my image only available to me ? There is one tiny, but spectacular difference in RTRPE. The italian spearmen (perhaps all spearmen ?) seem to have the phalanx ability. That means they are murderous in the streets.
I placed my two spearmen units side by side in defensive mode, 4 ranks deep, at the end of the main street with the two swordsmen behind them on fire-at-will. The Gauls had a decent army, with 3 cavalry units, and the rest assorted spear- and swordsmen. They charged en masse down main street and almost broke trough, I managed to just hold them, but I needed the swordsmen to push them back a little so I could compensate for my losses and link the spearmen units again into a line. Then I had to stop a cavalry charge down a side street with the swordsmen. Then it became a slaughter. My swordsmen flanking the spearmen created the 'pit-of-death', and then fear spread like trough the massed enemy troops like a brushfire. They came with 925 men, and they left with 5. I lost 58 men.
The barbarian units are very vulnerable to routing. If you can contain them and rout one of them, the rest are very likely to start routing also. In open field they do a lot better.
EDIT : I play with these campaign settings, i.e. VH/M (campaign/combat) and large unit size (80 men).
OK, it's good to know how you did it. I read something about Italian spearmen being made hoplites in PE, which sounds good as I found them pretty poor before. Other players should be aware there's lots of debate on the RTR PE forums about phalanxes in PE (maybe in RTW 1.5 in general?) - apparently they can easily get in to trouble if you try to attack with them, they get out of formation and draw swords etc. From what I've read, best results seem to be keeping them stationary and letting the enemy attack. But I don't know what DDWs found.
The autoresolve question was tongue in cheek, DDW - unless we have a Lower House member leading them, our garrisons won't get a chance to emulate your tactics.
Oh drat, I was trying to follow our house rules in my own campaign and I just forgot ! :) :) Oh well, I autoresolved at Rhegium in my campaign so now I'll call it 'even' with the AI. You will still get 2-1 kills on autoresolve I suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
There have been changes since I last experimented, but the major problem is when phalanx charges phalanx. They charge right into each other's formation and it becomes a chaotic melee, the so-called 'mosh pit'.
The best way to use hoplites is to use them defensively in guard mode. If you want to attack with them, best results are reached with taking them off guard mode. The triarii also have phalanx ability. You can tell by they way they hold their spears.
The whole thing is caused because they 'downgraded' the phalanx units in RTW patch 1.5 (this is not a RTRPE issue).
I have had a good nose around and could i join the upper house please.
I think i need to play the mod a little before im ready for the lower house.
This is a cracking idea econ21, well done. :2thumbsup: