Ok thanks for help. I was going to just have a wander around today, not bother with quests too much. Mayabe even head to imperial city for my first taste of the arena :)
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Ok thanks for help. I was going to just have a wander around today, not bother with quests too much. Mayabe even head to imperial city for my first taste of the arena :)
hey could anyone recommend a longish and fun quest that isn't part of the main guilds (since i've done them) and also what do people put together to get the 'best' potions for use? i'm a khajiit with dreadlocks just because i thought it looked so cool :laugh4: and i haven't done any of the main quest apart from up to finding baurus in that pub... i can't be bothered and since the side quests seem more fun i have been going for them instead
I suppose the search for the Akaviri stronghold would work ... it is the only fairly long non-guild quest I can think of now. It fires when you buy the house in Bruma (I think) ... anyway, the duchess wants you to find an Akaviri artefact. It's more of a convoluted test of finding your way around the mountains using terrain features (as a rule of thumb, I don't use the directional thingy), but the end of it is entertaining.
The sidequest that stood out the most for me was Shadow over Hackdirt. Talk to Dar-Mar in Chorrol or just explore around the town until you find a distinctly unfriendly village (Hackdirt).
I just got into the thieves guild, and while I was at it I ended up killing someone which got me into the DB :)
I want to do the DB quest, first one is to kill a guy north of Bravil or Bruma, can't remember which atm. But tib was talking about poisons and stuff to kill him, but when I try to use my poisons before it says "poison fine steel longsword" which is my current weapon. So how do you actually poison somebody?
To my knowledge you can only apply poisons to weapons and then hit people with them, the poison transfers instantly, or a spell that poisons the target. If I'm wrong, someone let me know.
Ah ok thanks mate, sorry for all the questions, but theres just so much to this :D
No problem, it's a big game, and there's a lot to learn and discover. :2thumbsup:
Once you are in the DB you can buy deadly poisoned apples - if you didnt notice the NPC's are scripted to eat once in a while and they will sit down at a table and eat the food in the bowls - place one of these apples in the bowl and the eater will die when consuming the apple - enjoy :skull:
Poision apples? Im sure some one aid take aay all the food froma characters house and jsut leave an apple. Eventually there meant to eat it and die. :P
Interesting, I didn't know about that.
I'm not a fan of the knight's quests though. The lleyawin knights order I mean. I was given the oppertunity to join, but it just seems like it's really cheesy, especially the intro quest just to get introduced to the order with the orc who thinks she's a knight.
Yeah, I did that one by mistake. Slightly reduced my evilness points a bit, I thought, and I decided I wasn't going to be no count's lame assed knight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
What was really funny though was the next quest I did was the Deadra quest where you have to cast the spell to make the countess of leyawins dinner party nudist. Which, as you may know, turns all the guards in the castle hostile as soon as you cast it. As I legged it out through the hall what should I see but my orc Knight "buddy", who I had already decided was not going on any more quests with me and who was just hanging around in the castle, getting hammered by a load of castle guards as a result. Just as I made the door she went down.
Sithis would be proud of me...
What about the "Hunter's Run"?Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantMonkeyMan
Here is a pretty comprehensive list of some great mods for Oblivion.
Im running about 10 mods in total right now and the end result is, imo, a much fuller game experience. I'd definitely recommend "natural faces" and "natural environments" as they both make the game look much better. Natural faces quadruples the size of human race face textures (from 128x128 to 512x512) with not real performance hit that Ive noticed. "Generic faces" also works well with this one imo- since it lets you reset the face sliders all to 0 before making any changes. Natural environments looks very nice as well, but I do think you lose a few frames in performance due to everything it adds.
I'm also giving Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul a whirl. You can download a trailer for the mod here if you want to get an idea of what it's likebefore you try it. I havent played enough of it to form my own opinion yet- but it looks interesting.
That was a fun mission...Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
When I did it, I failed ther first cast and only managed to hit the countess. But since I was hidden in the shadows, she believed it was her servant (tall woman standing behind her), so she got up and began to beat her up. I mean she really gave her a hiding. The others got up at that an began to beat the countess, and duringthe confusion I cast the speel again and got the result I needed.
As I fled I saw guards chasing the countess around the castle, clearly intent on killing her. Oh yeah... I was evil and had great fun.
:2thumbsup: Hahaha, awesome way to frame the nobility.
Yeah... I could hardly believe my luck. It was so fun to hear the countess yell curses at the poor servant (she is that female advisor or something, one you would believe was trusted), and that woman's screams for help and eventual surrender (she had been beaten so badly that she yeilded).
lol, that is such an awesome story.
:dizzy2: Thats a bit of a surprise too, I can't say I've ever seen the computer yield, they usually just run away.
I didn't like it too much when I played it. The side quests were poor, some of the gameplay was redundant and stupid (persuasion minigame, anyone?), there's some graphical weirdness and laziness (the poor and disjointed display of distant terrain, door entrance/exit), only bows for ranged conventional weapons (the arrow physics weren't quite as amazing as Bethesda indicated, or sufficiently so to justify the lack of other such weapons).
However, it beats most games out there. I probably will buy it once I get a better PC. I found aimlessly wandering around to be by far the greatest gameplay experience available in the game.
Isn't that really self contradictory? If you didn't like it, and you're going to whine about all these silly, tiny minute details nobody else seems to have a problem with...why buy it?
I thought the persuasion mini-game was pretty stupid too. So I replaced it with this excellent mod. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon_fodder
From the mod summary:
The persuasion mini-game seemed so gimmicky- and it was total cake to boot. I like this much better as it adds to immersion rather than detracting from it.Quote:
Instead, this mod implements persuasion through regular dialogue. You are free to pick any option you want, and either try the same one over and over or alternate between many. Each time you pick an option, you have a base chance of success based on your speechcraft skill. Then, your chances are modified based on the current disposition of the NPC. The higher their disposition, the harder it is to raise it further. Finally, each option has an individual modifier based on a number of factors (see the Modifiers section below), making it easier or harder to use that option with a particular NPC. For instance, you will have a much easier time coercing a farmer than you will the Arena Grand Champion, and the burly Nord in the local tavern will be more impressed by your boasting than will the Countess of Chorrol, etc. In this way, there is some amount of player skill and role playing required for successful persuasion rather than randomly clicking options.
No, it isn't. I did say "it's better than most games out there". It's worth playing, but not a masterpiece. And I'm definitely not the first to complain about those issues (which I hardly consider "minute" anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
That mod sounds excellent Xiahou, I'll probably use it when I buy the game. Thanks for the heads-up.
Hi guys, I finally got around to buying this now that my PC can handle it, and I was wondering-should I install mods before I start the game, and if so, which ones? Or should I try playing vanilla for a bit first?
Try vanilla out for a little while first before you add anything. Get to know what you think you want to see added before you add it. ~;)
You can always add mods later ... while opening your save, you'll get a warning which you can safely ingone, and the mods contents will be in.
Oh, alright then. I was just wondering if there were any mods which indisputably improved the game, and I should install straight away.
Thats not entirely true. The more cosmetic mods and those which add content can usually just be added as you go along (use Oblivion Mod Manager so that they load in the correct order, to identify any major conflicts and to ensure that all the data is being loaded correctly). Larger scale mods that change fundamental game mechanics (especially if they play around with quest NPCs/locations) tend to be screwy if you just crowbar them into an existing game and require some work with third party programs like Wyre Bash to get them working properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keba
I run a load of mods that have altered all sorts of facets of the game. Vanilla was bland, boring and pointless. Now I have the game which I wanted.
I posted a list of mods that someone compiled a few pages back- it was pretty comprehensive. Some mod you might know you want right off the bat, just based on their description. Others, you may have to you may have to play the game first to appreciate (or not) the need for a mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
The beauty of Oblivion on the PC is how virtually anyone can customize it to their tastes with mods. :2thumbsup:
Just out of interest: Which ones do you run and why? (I've never tried any.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
While I am an advocate of "try vanilla first" approach when it comes to Elder Scrolls game (it was intensely satisfying when I finally was able to pick up empty paper without reading it--a satisfaction that won't be there without the sacrifices and irritations of picking up scrap papers like they're books), I'd say that the only mods you should try to put in on the first round are the small ones that remove annoyances. When there are a lot (and it has to be a lot) of people commenting like "Thank God for this mod!" and "The [insert expletive irritation here] is gone! I'll have your baby!" for an extremely simple, one-feature mod you can usually deduct that the issue is probably irritating in the original game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Having not owned Oblivion myself, I don't know which would be like that. An example I mentioned of Morrowind would be very simple things like Alternate Starts, Removing "E..e...excuse me Nerevarine" greetings, and make empty papers like ordinary objects. Sanity-savers, these are called.
I won't suggest going on a full "change the fundamentals of leveling" kind of mod right off the bat.
The things people complain about most are the persusion and lock picking mini games. Neither of which are major things, you can avoid persuasion via bribes and lock picking is easy to figure out. And the whole level scalling thing. In Oblivion if you get to a high enough level Bandits will be wearing Glass armour. Oh yeah and PC players whine about the interface to no end.
I'm a pc player, and see no problem with the interface.
How could someone complain about the interface?
I guess by saying "omg the ui sucs!1 omg lam omg omg"
Well, not quite what I meant.
For PC users it's the second most popular complaint. After level scaling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
I just fail to see any problems with the user interface. I've been playing TES since Arena through Daggerfall and Morrowind into Oblivion. It's always been the same interface, so I don't understand the complaints.
PC (some) users see the interface in Oblivion as being taylored for use with a controller, rather than a mouse. Or at least that what I've gleaned. The only version of any Elder Scroll game I'll play is the console one.
Some pc users are too brainwashed by fps's...
Or by having fonts and an interface which work properly at higher resolutions and with a mouse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
I don't know what you're talking about, I've never had any problems with the interface and the mouse, or with the resolutions.
There's a UI mod that shows much more map territory on the screen and also makes the text and icons smaller on the menus.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC
I've gotten so used to it that I had forgot I installed the mod until I read these comments again.
Try some of the interface mods lying about. You'll be shocked how much better it looks, how much more accessible it is, and how much easier it is to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
But..I like the interface, it holds true to the previous three games.
I'm sorry but Oblivion's interface is nothing like Morrowind's. In Oblivion you have to navigate through dozens of different menus, where you can only see 1 thing at a time, which are obviously design for a gamepad. In Morrowind a right click & everything is there in resizable windows - you can interact with the world barely noticing the interface.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
I have found that the Btmod does improve this however.
the mod i mainly play is oscuro's oblivion overhaul.... it is very different to vanilla tes:o and adds loads of new things... my only problem with it is that it is hard when starting up and towards the end it is quite easy; the bandits etc have unchanging levels and stats i think... another thing is you have to start a new game to play it (since so much new stuff has been added)
Theres three mods I would recommend to start off with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
First is Francesco's Leveled Items-Creature Mod. Which tweaks the leveled item/creature system to make more sense and adds some other optional features like hardcore combat/loot. Also has an option addon with alot of new weapons, armor, items, and creatures added. Heres the link to the mod:
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.co....Detail&id=268
Next is BTMod by Tikigod and Beider. Its a mod that improves the interface to make it easier for PC users. It isn't huge tweaks, but rather alot of small ones to get the desired effect. You can also simply take what features you want and leave out those you don't if not all of the tweaks appeal to you. Heres the link to the mod: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.co...s.Detail&id=25
Finally there is the Satellite Cyrodill mod by Jason Krushar. This doesn't affect many things, just the map in your journal. The guy took screenshots of the continent from high up in the CS and stitched them together. The result is an aerial-overview map of sorts in place of the dull map that used to be there. Perhaps from a strictly-roleplaying sense its too much information, but it is still great to look at it. Heres the link to the mod:
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.co...Detail&id=1071
Those are the main ones i'd recommend, the others are really just small tweaks or addons like the SpellIcon Replacement or the Marie Elena mod.
All this interface stuff means squat to me. I play the 360 version. But I'm looking forward to the Knights of the nine pack that on the way. Adds a whole new quest line (as well as all other official Oblivion content). The kinghts of the nine. They are the polar opposite to the dark brotherhood. In fact if you gain any infamy you get booted out of the order and have to start over.
A late reply, but here you are:Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul - Complete gameplay change, many new features
Attack and hide - Sneaking how I want it
Natural Weather - Better weather effects
Darker Nights - Obvious
Darker Dungeons - Obvious
Trainer Book - For saving time
Natural Vegetation - Prettier forests
Natural Habitat - Insects etc
Deadlier Traps - Traps that kill
NoMoreAnnoyingMessages - No more loading area messages
Dyseso's Light Ingredients - carry more potatoes!
Brighter Torches - See further in the darker dungeons
Unlimited Rings - Wear more than two rings if you like
Better Imperfect Water - Prettier water
Fathis Fix - Bug fix (not in the patch)
Muffin Display Rooms - A display room linked to from all owned houses
No Psychic Guards - Stealing things like it should be
MarkAndRecall - Saves having to backtrack through cleared dungeons
Improved Lava - More realistic lava
Callsteed - Stops you losing your horse
More Shields - Obvious, more stylish shields
Remove Spell Potions - Remove obsolete spells
MapMarkers - Leave markers at visited locations (eg vampires here etc)
Better Gardens - Prettier garden
SeveriansKatanas - Many katanas
Bankmod - A bank!
Slof's Horses Essential - Prettier horses that don't get killed
Burning Kvatch - Kvatch eventually stops burning
Rain - Hear rain when indoors
Mages Guild Quest Fixes - Bug fixes (not in patch)
MD's Saddlebags - Load your horse with junk
Town Ceremonial Armour - Armour for guards
House Map Markers - Fast travel to your front door
VA Better Gold - Shiney!
Realistic Force Medium - Better combat physics
Orcish Kabuto - Better Orcish helm
Intial Glow - Stops magic weapons from glowing
DEJ Harvest - Harvested plants disappear and later regrow
Keychain - tidies up the hundreds of keys you gather
Quest Award Leveling - Levelled goodies level with you
Tamriel VWD - See forts and ruins from afar (less pop-up)
Cliff Better Letters - More interesting random letters
Myths and Legends - Some serious quest/hardware for higher levels
Vibliribland's Epic Dungeons - Tough dungeons for higher levels
Illumination Within - Towns and buildings light up at night
Living Economy - Changes to pricing, merchant gold etc
Alternate Dwarven Helm - Look less like a bronze duck
No Merchant BArter Chatter - Annoying repetative chatter removed
Visually Enchanted - More abracadabra to you magic weapons
Dark Green Glass - a less cartoony glass armour
Short Grass - Find dropped items, see wolves, improve fps
Alternate Night Eye Shaders - More intersting effects (eg predator, infra etc)
Low Poly Grass - Improves fps dramatically
BTMOd - A higher res interface, menu screens etc
Elven Cartographers - A snazzier world map
Plus a whole load of other texture replacers, landscape mods etc etc. Alot of the graphical mods (especially the Tamriel VWD one) hit fps, but if you can run it are so worth it. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (OOO) turned the gameplay into the game I wanted, and has alot of features and options. Some of the mods (like OOO and Harvest) run additional scripts which may tax a weaker CPU.
I use Mod Manager to ensure that conflicts are at a minimum and not gamebreaking, and also to ensure that the mods load in the correct order (ie the correct ones override the others).
Old, old question I know, but what mods do people recommend for the frog who got Oblivion to test out her new desktop? It's been four months since the question was last asked, so I'd expect there to be new mods to look at, and evolutions of older ones.
Also, is the 'Knights of Nine' expansion worth getting? Any comments on it at all? There was a specific thread for it, but it was tiny and didn't last long.
here is a mod for improving Oblivion graphics:
Gamespot- Oblivion Make it Pretty
it a worth to look at.
other mods I dunno, i'm searching for good mods too.
The knights of the nine mod just adds a new quest line for the knights of the nine as well as the small little addons that was being sold like horse armor and the wizard laboratory or something like that. The expansion was announced a bit back though. Forgot the ame, but I remember it took place in the mind of that one god who was a bit crazy and had you to the quest where dogs fell from the sky at the end
@froggy - there's a huge amount of mods that you might want to run.
I highly reccomend OOO, but only after you've played through on default settings.
LandscapeLOD fixer and other graphical mods are a must too.
Just have a look around the official forums and you'll find something to your liking.
I just started playing this on the PC the other day. For first 10 hours I was disappointed about why the graphics looked so bad, and then eventually I discovered it was because I had Bloom on instead of HDR, HDR which looks a million times better.
I closed the first Oblivion gate then did the Siege on Kvatch quest.
Now I'm beating up Martin repeatedly to boost my levels then sleep for free. I just can't resist the golden opportunity it seems to be.
Have some questions:
I got to Journeyman of Blade and then disarmed Martin. I put is his dagger in my inventory and noticed it was broken. When I dropped it again, now I notice Martin will never pick up his dagger. He used to pick it up some times before it was in my inventory, but now that it's been there he never will.
1. Is there any way to force Martin to pick up his dagger?
2. How are you supposed to make NPC allies repair their weapons, especially if you can't disarm them and then repair it for them and give it back to them?
3. If I wanna sell the Count's ring from the Kvatch quest, will that keep the Kvatch quest on my quest log forever? That would really suck. The quest reward from the soldier sucks though, so I'd rather sell the ring instead of completing the quest.
4. As a Warrior, how do I heal ally NPCs? I've been leving up Restoration enough to use some target other heal spells, but that seems like it will be really slow healing even if I get it high enough. Surely there is a better way to heal ally NPCs than this?
5. Why does it usually say "you have no room to drop this item" when I try to drop something, and how come sometimes it shows the item floating in front of a hand icon, but all I can seem to do with that is rotate the item in the air or take it back into my inventory? This is extremely annoying. :no:
Anyone know where I can download the interface mod without having to register? Or indeed, where I can download any of mods without having to subscribe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Yeh frog, get knights of nine on dvd from your local retailer
It has all the other official pay for quests and they really add even more replay value to the already infinite replay value of oblivion
I wanted to comment on some of the previous posts in this thread.
I can agree with the criticisms of the Speechcraft mini game. What they should have done was give you an actual conversation to have and you choose the best response. But I gather that would get really repetitive very quickly because they wouldn’t be able to fit in enough conversation options to make them not repeat often. Plus they wouldn’t be able to fit that much voice-acting in, as half the disc is already voice-acting according to what I’ve read. So I ask, what realistic thing would you have had them do instead of the Speechcraft minigame? By the way, this mini game is extremely easy to win at once you get the “Free Rotate per round” option which I got very very fast after I learned how the game works. So if in some cases it’s players complaining about it because they can’t win at it – that’s not really valid in my view.
Coming straight from being a hardcore Guild Wars player, the interface problems in Oblivion were immediately very noticeable to me. Oblivion’s interface suffers from a serious case of console-itis.
Here are some examples of things wrong with the Oblivion interface, compared to the silky smooth Guild Wars interface since it’s the other modern RPG I am most familiar with:
1. Oblivion has no mini-map like in Diablo II or Guild Wars. In Oblivion you have to literally stop playing every time you want to check where you are. In terms of design, this is a major step backwards of about 10 years or so.
2. The world map is stuck in the in a small portion of the center of the screen, which makes navigating it a major pain. Compare this to Guild Wars in which the world map takes up the whole screen and is easily scrollable in any direction so you can see a very large portion of at any one time. Or in Guild wars you can zoom way out and see a huge portion of the map that way. With Oblivion, you have to scroll around small portions of the map in an extremely aggravating way and “pixel hunt” for where you want to go. Once you’ve experienced the vastly better design of Guild Wars’ world map, the failings of Oblivion’s map system is instantly extremely annoying, at least for me. Probably wouldn't bug me so much if I wasn't so familiar with Guild Wars having implemented the same concept only way better.
3. Not enough hotkeys for menu items. There needs to be hotkeys for every single menu in the game. And each of them should be mappable by the player. Most modern games have this, why can’t Oblivion? I realize Oblivion has four menu hotkeys that are stuck on the F1 -F4, but four is not nearly enough and there is no reason they should be bound to "F keys." Definitely console-itis is the only reason for this failing.
4. Can’t sort inventory items based on what you currently have equipped, making repairing or selling gear a major pain. Can’t sort inventory items by important vs. useless items, ie: my armorer hammers are buried in-between a ton of useless junk. No excuse for this really, all it would take is another button or two at the top of the menu.
I must say, I find the bounty system to be highly ridiculous. I’ve been beating up Martin repeatedly to level up, with absolutely no witnesses around, and he definitely hasn’t gone anywhere to tell anyone. Now I have over 1500 gold worth of bounty on my head, because supposedly the guards in this game are omniscient. Also don’t like how the guard who died on the Count’s bed came alive again after I got from level 2 to level 8 by beating up Martin in the nearby hall. Not sure if that means it’s impossible to truly kill anyone in this game, or just impossible to kill guards. Either way, that’s really lame. And a dead guard who’s corpse I looted shouldn’t have magically came alive again, nor with all the gear on him that I looted from him. Even worse, when I killed that very same guard who already was killed by skamps, I got a murder bounty on my head that contributed a lot to raising my bounty by a couple of thousand. Killing a reanimated corpse should not be murder or cause a bounty, especially when there are no witnesses.:thumbsdown:
Having said all that, based on having closed the first Oblivion gate, done the first Thieves Guild quest and done the Siege on Kvatch and Battle for Kvatch Castle quests, I’m very impressed with Oblivion. Coming from me, that’s really saying something because I’m extremely critical and hard to impress. I’m usually the first guy to harshly criticize vastly popular games and say they are not very good if I think they don’t live up to the hype, but Oblivion does live up to the hype. Except for with the AI, which is very bad instead of “groundbreaking” like it was advertised. Ie: NPCs never heal themselves. NPCs never repair their weapons. NPCs often won’t pick up their own weapons off the ground. I had the soldier NPC in the first Oblivion plane get stuck literally running into the bottom of a cliff wall forever because he was trying to reach a skamp enemy that was higher up, but couldn’t figure out how to stop running straight ahead into the cliff wall for all eternity.
But in Oblivion the story presentation, graphics, voice-acting, gameplay and immersion factor is all phenomenal.
Raiding a castle with other Knights during a fierce thunderstorm – is definitely the most immersive thing I’ve experience in an RPG. Period. If there is another RPG that can match this level of presentation or immersion then I’d like to know what that game is because I’ve never heard of it.
The Arena in Oblivion is awesome. Best Gladiator Arena simulation I’ve seen in a game, better than KOTOR's I think. Too bad after you win enough it stops letting you have matches vs. other humanoids – that’s the only thing wrong with it. :no:
Compared to Guild Wars, Oblivion is infinitely better. If they were movies, Oblivion would be The Godfather and Guild Wars would be 8 Heads In A Duffel Bag. I’m guessing that comparison would hold true with Oblivion vs. any other game out there, but if not please do enlighten me with specific titles that have better presentation and immersion than Oblivion does. If Oblivion is not a masterpiece, then what game is?
Of course, I am keeping in mind that perhaps my love of Oblivion is presently over-inflated because as of yet I haven’t gotten to the “meat and potatoes” of the game, ie: exploring and killing stuff in the wilderness, or doing a lot of the quests. I’m hoping that when I do that the experience will hold up better for me than it has for some of the posters in this thread.
Actually, comparing Oblivion to Guild Wars is like comparing a sports car to a pair of sneakers. Both get you to where you are going, but they are completely different things, and one of them smells like you stepped in dog poo. :tongueg:
A more accurate comparison would be Oblivion to Gothic III, or Guild Wars to WoW.
Isn't "Martin" the Sean Bean character - the rightful king you are supposed to restore to the throne? And you are secretly beating him up? And praising the story and immersion? :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
Sorry, I'm just teasing you - what you do with your computer is none of my affair.
Oblivion is very good in terms of graphics and presentation, that's undeniable. For example, it beats NWN2 hands-down on those things. The other criteria, I am not so sure about.Quote:
But in Oblivion the story presentation, graphics, voice-acting, gameplay and immersion factor is all phenomenal.
....
I’m guessing that comparison would hold true with Oblivion vs. any other game out there, but if not please do enlighten me with specific titles that have better presentation and immersion than Oblivion does. If Oblivion is not a masterpiece, then what game is?
The story was unimpressive - not a patch on the Kotors, for example. The voice-acting I disliked - Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart are top notch of course, but otherwise too few recycled bland American voices. They did not sound like fantasy characters - in fact, I am not sure what they sounded like; hammy North American actors is the best I can come up with. Again, the kotors are the natural reference point - the actors voicing Bastilla, Jolee, etc are right up there with Hollywood's finest, IMO. It never occurred to me that they were anything other than the characters they portrayed.
Gameplay - well, the melee combat is superb for a First Person game, I agree. I actually like it better than that in the much lauded Mount & Blade (which I love as well). It has less frantic clicking and gives less power to quantity as opposed to quality. Some of the quests are nice - I really liked the creepy abandoned village you find with an underground community. But overall it's too free-form an experience for me. And the quests still feel too small and self-contained. It can't compare to the wonderful main story arcs and fascinating sidequests of BG2 and FO2.
Immersion is pretty good, except when you talk to the annoying minor characters. Wandering around - or rather stumbling through - Oblivion and Kvatch was excellent. But again, the free-form nature of the game just meant it did not grab me. Someone said Morrowind was a world simulator, not a game, and I think there's still an element of truth of that about Oblivion.
You asked what was better. Perhaps the best "modern" ropleplaying game I would say does immersion better than Oblivion is Vampires - the Masquerade: Bloodlines. I hated the premise of that game (being a vampire - I always like to play lawful good, paladin types) but people here said it was great so I gave it a go. I started off lurking in the sewers, full of self-loathing, feeding off rats. But gradually the game sucks you in and you start to really identify with your character, so that when someone from your former life recognises you, I reacted out of character just as my vampire was supposed to do in character - I recoiled from her out fear that she might "out" me and drag me out of my new life. I ended the game leaping on foes with abandon and joyfully draining them of blood in combat. The voice acting and side quests were fantastic - the guy who takes you through in the tutorial section of Vampires is a more vivid character than anyone in Oblivion. Presentation was perhaps patchy - a few bugs - but nothing a bit of patience cannot overcome and graphically it was gorgeous (Half-Life 2 engine).
Sounds like fun - what quest was it? Kvatch? That was a corker. I agree very high up there with other RPGs. If only the game had sustained that strong central story arc throughout, instead of dissipating it with the free-form go anyway, world simulator thing. But I guess that's like criticising a lion for eating meat - it's what Elder Scrolls games do.Quote:
Raiding a castle with other Knights during a fierce thunderstorm – is definitely the most immersive thing I’ve experience in an RPG.
EDIT: BTW, I loathed Guild Wars. I can't play it for more than half an hour before wanting to rip my brain out at the sheer inanity of it. But then I've just done the bland PvE stuff, not the PvP stuff that people get excited about.
frogbeastegg: The best site around for mods is PlanetElderscrolls.com, and sometimes TESsource.com if a mod isn't posted on PES. Yes you have to make a gamespy account but its free and these days you don't usually have to wait to dl anything from them.
For interface mod I recommend: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.co...s.Detail&id=25
It has new arrangements you can use, or a way to easily customize the interface.
And for general gameplay and additions I recommend: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.co....Detail&id=268
Forum thread describing the mods many features: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...owtopic=646321
I really can't recommend Francescos mod enough, its a great mod that just keeps getting better and much of it is optional. Allowing you to install features how you want them. Plus the addition of lots of fan made creatures and itemsthat have been balanced.
Use the compass :idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
BTmodQuote:
2. The world map is stuck in the in a small portion of the center of the screen, which makes navigating it a major pain. Compare this to Guild Wars in which the world map takes up the whole screen and is easily scrollable in any direction so you can see a very large portion of at any one time. Or in Guild wars you can zoom way out and see a huge portion of the map that way. With Oblivion, you have to scroll around small portions of the map in an extremely aggravating way and “pixel hunt” for where you want to go. Once you’ve experienced the vastly better design of Guild Wars’ world map, the failings of Oblivion’s map system is instantly extremely annoying, at least for me. Probably wouldn't bug me so much if I wasn't so familiar with Guild Wars having implemented the same concept only way better.
It was released a day after the game, and you have no excuse for not using it.
1-8 are ingame hotkeys too; and if you really feel that you need more, you're mad :laugh4:Quote:
3. Not enough hotkeys for menu items. There needs to be hotkeys for every single menu in the game. And each of them should be mappable by the player. Most modern games have this, why can’t Oblivion? I realize Oblivion has four menu hotkeys that are stuck on the F1 -F4, but four is not nearly enough and there is no reason they should be bound to "F keys." Definitely console-itis is the only reason for this failing.
Sort by name?Quote:
4. Can’t sort inventory items based on what you currently have equipped, making repairing or selling gear a major pain. Can’t sort inventory items by important vs. useless items, ie: my armorer hammers are buried in-between a ton of useless junk. No excuse for this really, all it would take is another button or two at the top of the menu.
Most stuff you have once you're in to the game is enchanted anyway, just name them consistently and you'll have no problem
Mods fix thisQuote:
I must say, I find the bounty system to be highly ridiculous. I’ve been beating up Martin repeatedly to level up, with absolutely no witnesses around, and he definitely hasn’t gone anywhere to tell anyone. Now I have over 1500 gold worth of bounty on my head, because supposedly the guards in this game are omniscient. Also don’t like how the guard who died on the Count’s bed came alive again after I got from level 2 to level 8 by beating up Martin in the nearby hall. Not sure if that means it’s impossible to truly kill anyone in this game, or just impossible to kill guards. Either way, that’s really lame. And a dead guard who’s corpse I looted shouldn’t have magically came alive again, nor with all the gear on him that I looted from him. Even worse, when I killed that very same guard who already was killed by skamps, I got a murder bounty on my head that contributed a lot to raising my bounty by a couple of thousand. Killing a reanimated corpse should not be murder or cause a bounty, especially when there are no witnesses.:thumbsdown:
once you get to that stage, restart with OOO - it really is a different gameQuote:
Of course, I am keeping in mind that perhaps my love of Oblivion is presently over-inflated because as of yet I haven’t gotten to the “meat and potatoes” of the game, ie: exploring and killing stuff in the wilderness, or doing a lot of the quests. I’m hoping that when I do that the experience will hold up better for me than it has for some of the posters in this thread.
LoL, for some reason I just find this a really funny image. "Psst, over here your highness, behind this pillar, I (smack) just (thump) need (bash) to (wallop) level (biff) up (whack), ah, thank you very much, much better. No hard feelings, now, back to the quest."Quote:
Isn't "Martin" the Sean Bean character - the rightful king you are supposed to restore to the throne? And you are secretly beating him up?
Not, I must admit, that I haven't done the same a bit, but I used the woman who had the everscamp staff and kept duffing up her endless supply of scamps. Until the cheese got too much.
My image of the sustained Martin abuse is some dodgy sado-masochistic relationship. But out of respect to Navaros's beliefs, I am not going to go there.
That's one thing I dislike about Morrowind/Oblivion - it gives you incentives to do daft things to raise your skills. I know you can refrain, but I am weak. I seemed to spend most of Morrowind standing by a river, getting humped by mudcrabs. It did not endear me to the game.
Oblivion is a bit better - I don't feel obliged to do that kind of thing, but I do still have to keep a record of my stat increments between levels to make sure I get the 5x bonuses to stats.
In some ways I prefer those NWN modules like the Witch's Wake (or indeed my beloved Bloodlines) that only give you experience for completing quests, not killing stuff. Makes for more authentic role-playing than messing around with Martin or the mudcrabs.
Now that's what I call free form roleplaying. Work your way through the dark brotherhood quests and you get your own dungeon too :beam:Quote:
My image of the sustained Martin abuse is some dodgy sado-masochistic relationship
There are quite a few abuses/odditys about Oblivion. None are killers, or anything like, but its just not quite right. The one that annoys me is the way that, if you actually pick core skills for your character that are relevant to your image of him or her, you level up too fast. Picking sneak and security for a thief type character can be a real burden in that sense, which is odd. I still do it, because its just too cheesy to pick garbage like alchemy or speechcraft and then play a character as a thief.
But is this the games fault or have I not left power-gaming as far behind me as I would like to think?
I started beating up Martin because I was poor and couldn't afford Inns, and the beds with the Count's corpse and Guard's corpse were free to sleep on and right there.
Then I read that quest rewards are "crapped-down" to your crappy low level, thus you are fubaring yourself by doing quests before level 30. :furious3:
This motivated me to continue the Martin abuse even more.
I have since found a quest reward leveller mod which un-fubars quest rewards that the game fubars by default, and took a detour to the Arena. I was killing everyone in the Arena very easily, and then I looked it up to see the final reward is some fancy armor of which I am unsure if it gets crapped-down to your level or not. I checked the reward leveller mod's manual and noticed that the final Arena reward does not get levelled in any of such mods. Not sure if that is because it's at max level regardless of your level, unlike everying else in the game, or if the mod makes just forgot to add it in.
So in the interest of not potentially fubaring that or the quest reward of the half-Orc, Martin may be in for more abuse up to til I'm level 30.
I blame the game design for this abuse, that's what goaded me into it. :whip:
This just gets funnier and funnier. Boy oh boy are you in for a surprise when the "Social Services" quest kicks in. :laugh4:Quote:
I started beating up Martin because I was poor and couldn't afford Inns, and the beds with the Count's corpse and Guard's corpse were free to sleep on and right there.
In the interests of saving the poor, abused, Emperor to be, can I ask why you want to be level 30? Given that everything more or less levels with you?
Incidently I don't think the daedritic quest items level and some of them are quite tasty.
That reminds me, that's another thing that makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
When the guard who was killed by a skamp and who I then looted, ended up resurrecting after a certain number of weeks of abusing Martin past, I was forced to re-kill that guard because there was no command to make him "Wait here" away from the Martin abuse. The guard would always interfere in the abuse thus forcing his re-death from me.
Re-killing the guard made the Dark Brotherhood appear to me for murdering him. But I can't have murdered him because: 1. The skamp already murdered him weeks earlier <and> 2. He will be resurrected good as new (actually better than new if I were to loot him again!) in a couple more weeks.
This is incorrect. Nothing in terms of weapons or armor or items level with you. Hence by default if you get good weapons or items or armor at a low level, those items are permanently fubared unless you correct it with a third party mod with which the mod maker has manually added in every item you need unfubared (hence this is prone to exclusions that may leave your items fubared), or possibly via the cheat console (not sure if that works for everything).Quote:
In the interests of saving the poor, abused, Emperor to be, can I ask why you want to be level 30? Given that everything more or less levels with you?
you could juice up the gameplay difficulty.
at level 11/13 you will start seeing elven/dwarven armor/weapons
at level 14+ you will start seeing ebony armor/weapons
Well, be fair, the guard probably thought he was doing his job, you know, guarding the king. :laugh4: He probably didn't know you and Martin have this abuse thing going on.Quote:
When the guard who was killed by a skamp and who I then looted, ended up resurrecting after a certain number of weeks of abusing Martin past, I was forced to re-kill that guard because there was no command to make him "Wait here" away from the Martin abuse. The guard would always interfere in the abuse thus forcing his re-death from me.
Yes, sorry, I meant the loot you get levels when you get it. Once you have it it stays the same I agree. So you need to replace the not very good magic sword you got at level 5 with a better one you might have looted at level 15. It doesn't seem a terribly big deal to me but your experience may differ, as they say. One approach is to level slowly (I finished the DB and thieves guild quests, which is all I wanted to do with that character, by about level 15 IIRC.) That way stuff stays more or less current for the whole game (I never did find armour better than the DB armour, for example)Quote:
Nothing in terms of weapons or armor or items level with you. Hence by default if you get good weapons or items or armor at a low level, those items are permanently fubared
Mind you I am going to give OOO a go, and if that is a lot better I will take it all back. But I have to say vanilla has grown on me. Still lacks much of a story, but its fun to potter about.
how cheap did everyone get this game? two weeks after it came out, i was browsing on my local games stall at the market, and their it was, staring at me...oblivion for.....£25. But a little sneakiness...changing prices around... got me it for a tenner
result
Funnily enough, that system is one of the things I most disliked about bloodlines - I felt that there was too much pressure on you to complete the side quests before the main (and indeed i have now given up on the game, as i'm stuck at the Society of Leopard with no way through).Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Still, i can understand your point :bow:
That's strange - I never noticed that tension. In fact, on reflection, I really like the way Bloodlines handles the mix of the main quest and the side quests. Generally, you clear a location of all side quests, before the main quest takes you off to the next location. By contrast, I found juggling the main quest and side quest one of the biggest game flaws of Morrowind/Oblivion and even BG2 - according to the story, you should be saving the world; but then you'd miss out on all the cool sidequests. In Bloodlines, the main story is more of a slow burner, so you don't feel the same pressure (it's not like BG2 "rescue your sister from torture!" or Oblivion "close the gates of hell!" and you are, like, "Yeah, man, sure - just left me do this fedex job first ... and beat up this Martin dude for a while." :laugh4: )Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
Is that the place full of vampire hunters? What's the problem? Maybe we can help? To be honest, the game gets worse with every new location you move to - too much repetitive combat, too little of the creative non-combat experiences - but it is falling from a great height. It would be a shame not to finish it, if only to be around to see Jack come out of his box.Quote:
(and indeed i have now given up on the game, as i'm stuck at the Society of Leopard with no way through).
:laugh4:
I guess by 'pressure to complete the side quests' i'm referring to the need to be able to fight successfully against the growning hordes of enemies.
Yes, the society of leopard is the place full of vampire hunters, and the issue is that I simply keep dieing.
Over and over again :embarassed:
Once i finish replaying kotor2 i might have another shot at it, but until then....
Which part of the society? There was a house and then some caves underneath. Both were challenging, but perhaps especially the caves. It's been a while, but I think your vampire regenerates. So taking it slow, and luring them out a few at a time, running away to recover, should work. I remember hiding behind crates a lot - I often liked to go for the silent kills where I could.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
But you are right, the game strangely switches track half way through. From being combat-light and inventive, it suddenly starts throwing mobs at you to fight. :thumbsdown:
Another superb CRPG. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Once i finish replaying kotor2 i might have another shot at it, ...
...except for the bugs.
Honestly - every time through i end up with the 'cheat node' enabled on the telos irrigation tunnels and have to try 50 times to get through :inquisitive:
It really is frustrating - add that to having to hack the exe for widescreen .... :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
Nothing in your possession levels with you true, but most of the loot is scaled to your character. So at level 20 you will indeed get "good loot" but, relative to the word around you (which also scales) it will be no more effective than the early equipment was in the hands of your low-level character.
This does cause a problem with some unique items. You get them at level 5 and they'll stay at that level, becoming less powerful than mundane items you'll find at high levels. If this bugs you then you can get a mod that levels these items as you level. Check my mod list earlier in the thread.
To be honest Nav all of your criticisms can be overcome (or maybe just patched over) by mods. If you run Oblivion on a PC you are doing yourself a disservice by not using mods.
Oh, and the thing with the dagger? He won't pick it up because you have, in a minor way, broken the game by doing something you are not supposed to do.
Edit:
Whoever said Alchemy was a junk skill has never tried it - potions can enable you to win any fight.
Remembered I had a gamespy account from the days when I used to play MTW online; it's also valid for their download service. Yay!
I intend to play one character with the interface mod and a few others which don't alter the gameplay itself. I'll get Knights of Nine at some point and install it. Once I am done with that character I shall mod the game more heavily, altering things like the levelling system and banishing levelled item drops, and start a new character, probably the one I plan on making to do the Dark Brotherhood quests only. I hear that questline is the best in the game ... but I'm not keen on playing evil characters, so I'll keep it seperated out. Then I'll try the big overhaul mods, the ones which alter the game tremendously.
Best thing about Oblivion is that it is one of those rare games which allows me to play as an armour clad, sword wielding good fighter who can cast healing spells and level a barn with magic if I'm in a tight pinch.
My local Game has it for £19.99. Amazon were selling it for £11.99 for a few weeks too.Quote:
how cheap did everyone get this game? two weeks after it came out, i was browsing on my local games stall at the market, and their it was, staring at me...oblivion for.....£25.
well you can always heal (cure magic). instead of using potions.
True, but potions don't use up mana or whatever you call it. Nor do they use up time in a fight (I guess the bad guys stop hitting you while you take a drink!).Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Grace
Plus potions can do alot more than just heal. ALOT more.
Edit:
Don't forget poisons either.
Mana isn't as big as a problem as in Morrowind where you have a fixed Magicka and it doesn't restore automatically. And for all of those people that is complaining about the map in Oblivion, in Morrowind when you get a quest, no quest marker shows up about where you are supposed to go but instead they give you awful directions that takes me 2 hours along with cheats for levitation to find. In that quest where you were supposed to cure yourself from the corpus disease, I literally searched almost the entire eastern coast of Vvanderfell before I found that place called Tel something