Whoops, you're right! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
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Whoops, you're right! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Well, this was unexpected. I have doubts that evil_maniac is a cop, as you
would imagine, however I do not know if Sasaki is using the suspicious villagers
as part of his system. I can only say that I voted for evil_maniac purely as a
defensive reaction - Orb was clearly finished, so the token gesture of the
defensive vote [as I have used it in all mafia games] did not seem like an
unreasonable course of action. I am innocent, and to kill me would be a step
backwards.
Lemur has been released. Vote now on whether to execute him or let him free. With 17 alive it's 9 to lynch (thanks orb).
Vote like this:
Lemur:Lynch
or
Lemur:No Lynch
Lemur: Lynch
Uh, Sasaki, don't we have 17 alive (:() and so only 9 to lynch.
Unless I can still vote, at which point I'll Lemur: No Lynch
I accept that my former policy was overly destructive, and thus allow him to live.
Lemur: Lynch
I will address EMFM's accusations shortly.
Lemur:Lynch
Crazed Rabbit
Lemur: Lynch
Lemur: Lynch
:balloon2:
Lemur: Lynch
Was there even a point in having this vote?
Lemur:Lynch
Yes. Actions taken during the night (or lack thereof) might have lended some evidence toward Lemur's innocence. As it is, I see no compelling reason to lynch him. And I don't want to kill off a likely innocent when we still have to vote on someone else before the day (Day 2) is over. At least, I assume we still have to vote on someone else... Kojiro, can you clarify this situation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rusher
Lemur: No Lynch
We already voted for Orb today, yes.
We lynched orb day 2. Now we have an extra vote on lemur. After night 3 we'll vote again.Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Ray
Lynch: 7
No_lynch:1
There is something fishy going on here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
I change my vote to No lynch
(Unvote) Lemur:lynch
(Vote) Lemur:No Lynch
People it just occurred to me.
If we lynch Lemur, the game might be over.
Lemur's last statement suggests it. He might be connected to another player like the Romeo and Juliette scenario.
I say we await the lynching, I think that Lemur believed he was going to be lynched making the statement I quoted and gave us a hint or a warning.
Lemur:No Lynch
Alright. After a recent exchange of PMs and Chatroom conversations, notably those between GH, Sasaki, and myself, I have come to the conclusion that GH and SS may not be Mafia. While it is a bit much of a coincidence that both are not Mafia, being as they are the first and only two I investigated, there remains the possibility. This is, for the most part, due to the refusal by the operator of the game to acknowledge whether "suspicious villagers" come into play. Therefore, I withdraw my complete certainty. I am now about 80% sure that one is Mafia, and about 25% sure that both are Mafia.
Crap, you're right, we're on Day 3! Well it doesn't change my vote, as I still see no reason to lynch Lemur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
But the statement that someone else was going to be happy about his situation may indicate that *he* is Tom (or, possibly, Jerry, but Tom seems much more likely). If that's the case, he's innocent. But, regardless of whether or not he, Evil Maniacs, or SSNeo have this role, I'd like to know what happens if someone with this role manages to get their rival lynched. According to the wiki, the "winner" is removed and the game continues for everyone else. But Kojiro could have changed it so that the game is over for everyone if one of these two wins. I know you don't want to spell things out for us, Kojiro, but I think its important for all of us to know whether or not a Tom/Jerry victory means gameover for the rest of us. Please give us some peace on this matter. ~:confused:
Psh of course I wouldn't make a tom/jerry victory gameover. Where's the fun in that?
B-Ray has got it right, Lemur is obviously Tom or Jerry. I vote Lemur: No Lynch.
Fine.
Even though Lemur's role has pretty much been revealed he's dead either way, because now he's cannon fodder for the mafia.
Unvote: Lemur Lynch
Vote: Lemur No Lynch
Vote count (9 to lynch or not lynch):
Lynch: 5
No Lynch: 5
"The Thief plays on the side of the mafia. He does not know the mafia and vice versa. He cannot be killed by the mafia. At night he points at a victim, blocking his special ability for this night if he is one the side of the civilian"
The thief cannot block the mafia from killing people.
I should probably get around to reading this Wiki...
I counter your quote with this one ~:) :Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Since Kojiro made this statement in response to my question about the Theif's limitations, we should consider it a possibility that the Thief can affect anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Wait. I thought Orb and SSNeo were Tom and Jerry? So now Lemur is Tom or Jerry?
Here is my question: Who is "Him"? Is it the mafia or is it the other Tom or Jerry? And couldn't somebody pretend to be another role like we all thought Spartan may have done calling himself the mafia? That sure would be one hell of an awesome distraction. Since it is pretty much the only thing that Lemur has said, I don't trust it.Quote:
If I were mafia, then yes, the other families would know all about me by now. The truth is more prosaic, I'm afraid. However, there's one person who will be dancing a little jig. You'll find out about him shortly.
I really don't give a hoot about Tom or Jerry since neither one of them can kill us, but the Mafia can. My concern is that Lemur is smart as a whip and he is a known troublemaker in every game. I am going to keep my vote as LEMUR: LYNCH until I get some good reason otherwise. Besides, he has been pretty darn quiet so far. I don't think we should squander the opportunity to lynch a possible mafia with indecision and watch another pair of innocents get killed. And I sure as hell don't want to see my alcohol disturbed again! :no:
The Mafia cannot kill either Tom or Jerry.
EDIT: And in standard rules, Tom and Jerry do not end the game anyway. Let's take a look at the wiki, shall we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaWiki
I was reading back on the previous posts a little more. According to GHC, Lemur revealed himself? It seems like an awful lot of people think he is Tom or Jerry. I hate to waste my vote on one of the two, but I just don't trust Lemur. Look at how he has survived the other Mafia game by initially detering everyone by screaming to be murdered so he can have a creative death instead of a "boring old lynching".
Now he makes one comment in this game that "someone will be excited when he is lynched". It is the exact same tactic of using a game role to change people's minds. I think he is full of it. If anything, this now makes me even more suspicious of Lemur. This is classic Lemur manipulation.
Damn, you people had me convinced to let Lemur go until I read Div's posts. I'm sticking to my vote, for now.
If there is such a pair role in this game as Tom & Jerry maybe DA is Lemur's archenemy. :idea2:
Another thing… I am in the dark here about which roles are in this game, yet people seem to drag roles out of their sleeves, I don’t think Sasaki has posted an overview of the roles in this game…
How do you know that there is a Tom or Jerry role?
[edit]: LOOK I HAVE 2000 posts.. party at the village square at 2000 hours tonight!!!
Congrats on your 2,000 posts Sigurd.
There's a link to a wiki page here somewhere in the thread that gives an overview of the *possible* roles. Sasaki has indicated that he might have changed a few things here and there. There is no way of knwoing which roles are in the game. That's part of the fun !Quote:
Another thing… I am in the dark here about which roles are in this game, yet people seem to drag roles out of their sleeves, I don’t think Sasaki has posted an overview of the roles in this game…
How do you know that there is a Tom or Jerry role?
w00t ~:cheers:Quote:
[edit]: LOOK I HAVE 2000 posts.. party at the village square at 2000 hours tonight!!!
That's just crazy talk. If that were true, DA would be making endless, monotonous arguments about my guilt ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
So who is your archenemy then ?
Lemur: Lynch
GeneralHankerchief is found strangled and deposited in a dumpster.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Killed(5):
Discovery1 (Bus Driver)
Silver Rusher (Italian Mafioso + Romeo)
gertgregoor (cop)
Kommodus (mason)
GeneralHankerchief(cop)
Suicide(1):
Drisos (Juliet)
Executed(1):
Orb (Chinese Mafia)
Alive (16):
Reenk Roink
Crazed Rabbit
Divinus Arma
Cowhead418
Ice
Tiberius
Lemur (prison)
evil_maniac_from_mars
Wonderland
SSNeoperestroika
Ignoramus
B_Ray
Zalmoxis
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Dutch_Guy
With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch (unless lemur is executed in which case it's 15 alive and 8 to lynch).
Lynch Lemur: 7
No Lynch: 4 (gh's removed)
That's it? One kill and it was me? Gah... :furious2:
Well, there you go EMFM, think I'm still guilty?
The few investigations I got off had some mixed results, and I have my suspicions but as per Sasaki's request I will remain silent. Good luck everybody.
No. SS might still be, but now we at least know for sure that "suspicious villagers" are in fact in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
One kill ???? What are we supposed to make of that ???
And why is he killed before the Lemur vote is in, or before anyone got lynched ???
I'm confused :dizzy2: :dizzy2: :dizzy2:
Maybe the mafia are killing each other off?
Orb was lynched. Perhaps I should have waited until the Lemur vote was in, but I didn't feel like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Gah! Now the General has been murdered. Great. Why are we wasting our voting opportunities?
EDIT: DID ANYBODY ELSE NOTICE THAT ONLY ONE MURDER HAPPENED WHILE LEMUR WAS IN PRISON?!?!?!?!?
In law enforecement, we call that a clue.
Well, if my vote counts, then Lemur:No Lynch.
And he does not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Wow. These mafiosos are absolutely heartless! Its the General's first game and you killed him on the 3rd night! :laugh4: You could have at least let him get lynched, cause I'm sure everybody's eager to cast their vote for him (I'm glad I did while I had the chance ~;p).
But more seriously, this sucks. Not only was he General freakin' Hankerchief, an expert on the game, but he was a cop!!
Actually, Lemur was never in prison; he was in jail. But more importantly, if I understand right, Lemur was not in jail on the night of the murder. He was released beforehand, based on the statement Kojiro made when he told us to revote on his innocence. The night he was in prison, two people were killed, gertgregoor and Kommodus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Still, its baffling that only one murder took place. We know there are two mafia families, and I assume that they must target someone each night, so the only explanation I can come up with is that both families chose to off G-Hanky. You should be proud, General. :2thumbsup: Now, this is assuming that if there is a doctor-type role (one that can choose an individual to save each night, should they fall victim to murder) and he successfully saves someone, we would get a report & description of that happening.
What's even more confusing to me than the single murder is the fact that no theft took place! I mean, there's definitely somebody out there with the role of the Thief, yet apparently no home was broken into last night. I don't understand that, as it doesn't make any sense for the thief's nightly activity to be optional. Yet, the thief has been neither killed nor detained.
Anyway, those are big questions on my mind. Its nearly 3:30 in the morning here (IRL) and I've got classes tomorrow, so I'll speculate on who did the killing later. But I want to say that you'll be sorely missed, GeneralHanky! ~:mecry:
If the villagers are to win this game, people will need to be brave and reveal themselves.
I am the prostitute.
Oh, I almost forgot: Lemur: Lynch
I don’t think that is the way to win my friend… revealing certain characters will ensure a place on the mafias lists. If you are the prostitute the mafia will want to get you now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
We need to be methodically in this. I have made a spread sheet , yes I know, a geeky thing to do.
This is such a complicated game that it is needed just to get an overview of who is playing, what roles they have, voting habits, if they have been attacked etc..
I have noted the following,
Two players have not been voting in this game and they are not on a vacation according to their profiles and have been active as of Saturday and yesterday.
They are Tiberius and Zalmoxis.
Is this suspicious behaviour? Probably since they were quite active in recent Mafia games
(altered behaviour is suspicious in MAFIA).
Someone tried to kill Tiberius in round 1, he was saved, that probably makes him innocent.
Zalmoxis however, is active in the forum but is lurking in the game.
As we await the execution of Lemur (I guess he received 8 votes), which will create some answers, I will start the voting for execution of the killer of General_H
Vote:Zalmoxis
Lynch Lemur: 8
No Lynch Lemer: 4
SF, good analysis, Zalmoxis does seem the likely canidate.
Vote: Zalmoxis
I was thinking over your previous post, EMFM, trying to decide what to make of your accusations. I had about decided you were Jerry (definitely not Tom), but you have a point about the possibility of "suspicious" villagers. The MafiaWiki lists a few roles (on both sides) that show up as the opposite of whatever their actual alignment is when killed. Personally, I hate that idea and would like to think Sasaki didn't use any in this game. But, I can't rule it out without him saying so, and I'm guessing he's not going to say either way. *sighs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Either you're lying or you're telling the truth. If you're telling the truth, then there's something weird going on because you said you investigated GeneralHanky and he turned up guilty. If you're lying, there's a number of possibilities, but the most likely (to me) would be that either you're Jerry and SSNeo is Tom or you're an innocent desperately trying to delay your imaginary impending execution -- I don't think anyone believed Orb when he tried to name you as his partner in crime. But picking two random people like that and trying so hard to save your own neck would be awfully shameful play for an innocent. So I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and think that you have a legitimate reason to be after atleast one of these two.
I was thinking its possible that you might be something like a "corrupt cop" who is actually working for the mafia but will appear as a cop when lynched, but you were the very first person to suggest the possibility of inaccurate autopsies (for lack of a better term), so I doubt you would point out the key to your own cover.
So then I thought, maybe going ahead and executed SSNeo, like you suggest, would be the safest thing to do. Either he's Tom, and lynching him would cause you to disappear and we'd be rid of two useless villagers (useless because they're objective is to get the other killed, not to save the village), or he really did show up guilty upon your investigating him. But that still doesn't explain why you would have mentioned GeneralHanky. You had no way of knowing which one the crowd would pick, and letting the General be lynched first could allow you just enough time to get killed by the mafia. So if you were Jerry, it makes more sense to only accuse Tom of guilt.
So that would leave the possibility that you're telling the truth as the most probable... except for the fact that the General has been "proven" innocent, which can only be explained by your "shady background" theory, which is (unfortunately) valid for all we know.
So I don't know what the heck to do, but my current line of thought has reached a point that I can't work my way past: you have basicly invited us to execute you in order to prove your truthfulness; you've pretty much staked your life on your words. I'm willing to test you on it. Unless you're some kind of corrupt cop, your execution should reveal your integrity. If your death shows you to be a liar, we'll know and we'll have rid ourselves of atleast one worthless individual, possibly an enemy. But if your death makes you a martyr for the cause of good, we'll know to go after SSNeo. That's all I can figure to do right now without making a purely random vote. So...
vote: Evil_Maniacs From Mars
Know that if you do die by our hands, it will not be in vain! :bow:
I'm going to follow Sigurd and Vote: Zalmoxis
Also, since there are few convincing arguments against Lemur and Div is "suspicious" and a certain ghost in the chat kept insisting Lemur was Tom and we don't have a reason to kill him if that's the case, I'm going to change my vote on him.
Change vote: Lemur: No Lynch
I don't trust EMFM. We will only know if he was telling the truth by his death. Off with his head! Vote: Evil_maniac from mars.
Vote count:
Zalmoxis: 3
EMFM: 2
Lemur Lynch: 6
No Lynch Lemur: 5
Just a little warning: I'm moving tonight and I should have internet right away, but it's possible I won't, worst case scenario is that I can't post until tuesday. I'll post again tonight if I can.
BTW, I carelessly misattributed the suggestion of Orb's guilt to GeneralHanky earlier on when it was actually you, doc_bean, who came up with it. I've been meaning to correct that, so my bad, and good work doc!
vote: Evil_Maniacs From Mars
He said GH was mafia, did he not? And we now know what GH really is.
Crazed Rabbit
If you had read my posts, you would have realized (if you trust me, that is, which I doubt) that he came up guilty. My posts for voting against him were also filled with cautions, such as "not sure...suspicious characters in play?", which appears to be true now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
A note: SS and DA were also investigated. Both turned up guilty. Either Sasaki is making it so my investigations are all guilty, that I've been extremely lucky, or that I've chosen a few suspicious villagers.
It may be the case that you are an incompetent cop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Literally or as a role? Well, we'll see, won't we.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSNeoperestroika
LOL, pretty sure he meant the role. :laugh4: The MafiaWiki does mention, at the bottom of the Roles page, the option to give each player a chance of having certain secret (unknown to the player) traits, one of which is "incompetent", which means that they cannot successfully pull off the activities their role is meant to perform. In the case of an incompetent cop, I see three possibilities:Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
1) All investigations get the same result, regardless of the investigated player's actual alignment.
2) All investigations get the opposite result of the target's alignment.
3) All results are random (flip of the coin) and therefore meaningless.
Sasaki wouldn't tell me in chat if there were any characters with "shady backgrounds", so I don't suppose he'll comment on the possibility of incompetent characters, either, though I certainly think he should have mentioned it if there was the chance. He did, of course, recommend we all read the MafiaWiki, so I guess we should consider anything listed there as a definite possibility.
Sorry. Started my new job. Was fighting an incredible wildland fire last night and I was busy all day. As for my arguments against Lemur: Tom or Jerry is going to do the same technique that a Mafia would be: Sitting back, bandwagoning, playing it safe. Tom or Jerry aren't going to make "monotonous arguments" against each other. That would be a tad obvious and completely retarded.
Look at the way I played in the last game. I make an argument and then I play based on logic and the comments of each player. If I think somebody is guilty, I hammer away at them. So this nonsense about Lemur or I is pretty much ridiculous to me. That's a side game Sasaki added, and frankly, I don't care about it. I want to catch the mafia before I am lynched. Lynch Lemur or not. But every game he is a pain in the ass and has been responsible for headaches all the way around. I think he is a tricky dirty brilliant SOB who needs to be stopped now.
I made my arguments, and I'll stand by them. In the meantime, I am still waiting for somebody to provide solid information as to whom else we should concentrate on.
(I'll not be online again until sometime the day after tomorrow due to work, so I can't respond again until then.)
Thanks. :bow:
Sorry for my absence, had a bit of work with school and all.
Vote: Zalmoxis
Lemur: Lynch
Vote: Zalmoxis
Vote count:
Zalmoxis: 5
EMFM: 3
Lemur Lynch: 7
No Lynch Lemur: 5
Deadline for both is 24 hours.
Oh great, I'm gone some days and now you want me dead? Cheap, really so here's a hint:I help you guys.
Vote: EMFM.
Lemur: Lynch
I have returned ! Seems nothing has changed, I'll stick to my votes.
I'm not sure whether to go with Zalmoxis or EMFM. SF's argument against Zalmoxis was pretty convincing, so I guess that is the best bet for me right now.
Vote: Zalmoxis
Well that looks like all the votes we'll be getting.
Zalmoxis: 6
EMFM: 4
Zalmoxis is lynched.
Lynch: 8
No Lynch: 5
Lemur is lynched.
Killed(5):
Discovery1 (Bus Driver)
Silver Rusher (Italian Mafioso + Romeo)
gertgregoor (cop)
Kommodus (mason)
GeneralHankerchief(cop)
Suicide(1):
Drisos (Juliet)
Left Town(1):
Divinus Arma (Jerry)
Executed(3):
Orb (Chinese Mafia)
Zalmoxis (doctor)
Lemur (Tom)
Alive (13):
Reenk Roink
Crazed Rabbit
Cowhead418
Ice
Tiberius
evil_maniac_from_mars
Wonderland
SSNeoperestroika
Ignoramus
B_Ray
Sigurd Fafnesbane
doc_bean
Dutch_Guy
Pm's from people please.
We killed the doctor? Great, no police, no doctors, and lots of mafia still out there-not good!
No, there's still police.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
:book:
In violation of my 'being dead' treaty:
2 Police, 4 Mafia - 1/3 chance of finding a Mafioso in turn one. Better in turn two, if still alive (better than 2/3 chance per detective)
2 Police, 6 Mafia - 1/2 chance of finding a Mafioso in turn one. Improves again with each turn.
Having three police with 4 mafia leaves a 1/2 chance of one being found.
Having three police with 6 mafia leaves a 3/4 of one being detected.
These are underestimates, and on turn 1, assuming guesswork.
3 cops would kind of render each other pointless except that they can bandwagon a mafia they all know are guilty.
I told ya I'm helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
I won.
Good luck noble townsfolk. :bow:
Won? Hardly. You succeded in getting Lemur lynched. Since Mafia 2, that hasn't been difficult at all.
And now you're leaving all us villagers out to dry.
Crazed Rabbit
I know. kind of a shame. :shame: It was fun anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
I hope there's still a nurse in town...
Oh, and BTW, that was my sole mission. I was instructed do nothing but aim for the lynching of Lemur and he was instructed the same. I was told to not care about the mafia nor the villagers. I would have probably helped a little more since I was essentially invulnerable, but I could not allow Lemur to be seen as Jerry. If public perception was that he was Tomd he did not reveal it, then he would never be lynched nor killed. That placed me in greater danger. I had to take advantage of the immediate lynch-Lemur fever that had taken place in order to ensure he could not be viewed as Tom. Clearly, if the villagers thought he was Tom, but did not know my role, then he was safe and I was not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
I would have preferred to continue and use my night-invulnerability to help, but I really had no choice but to take advantage of the opportunity.