Imperial Diet II

Duke Leopold rises again to adress Otto von Kassel.

I am most unfortunate to have missed the recent appointment of Florence to the House of Bavaria, it is hard to follow the shoving of provinces down your throat for your noble services to the Reich! Your lands far exceed those of any other House present here, surley you would gladly give one of your own fiefdoms to restore those sins posed upon us by your declaration of war, not against Gregory, but the Papacy as whole. If I had been at the source of the recent uproar that would be the least I could do.

I will stand by my Edict. Preferably Rome or Florence will be gifted to the Papacy immedieatelly and no 'Crusade' without the Pope's blessing!

OOC: You cannot give another faction florins with the console. Only yourself. The only way to give the AI florins is by giving yourself some and sending a diplomat around to gift it. This doesn't work with factions at war however.

Otto smiles, his scar standing out livid on his face, and responds to Leopold.

It is curious that you would not back your words with a gift from your own territory. As I do not support your amendment, Bavaria will not donate Florence to advance your interests, which renders the proposal moot.

Tell me Leopold, do you speak from simple jealousy? Or is your "outrage" a political maneuver?

That is all I will say on the matter, as the focus of this session is on the proposed Crusade.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"Von Kassel, if you are so focused on the crusade,why are you not going on it? It is intresting how others should go to wash your´s and Kaisers hands from the blood of the Pope,while you two will stay behind."

Dietrich looks Von Kassel,with contempt in his eyes.

Otto shifts his gaze from Leopold to Dietrich

I have already answered that question, Duke von Saxony, in my previous speech. I will not repeat the reasons. Believe me or not. Consult a scribe if you're memory fails you.

If you two want to rake me over the coals, send a messenger or bring it up in the next Diet session. This is not the time or the place.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"Well,Duke of Bavaria. Isnt this the Imperial diet right now. I think there is nothing in the charter that stops either myself or Leopold from suggesting anything here. I just find it it very intresting how enthusiastic you are on sending many of the best men of Reich to take the holy city,while you will stay behind with Kaiser. After all,without you two we would have never tarnished the shield of Reich,like its tarnished now. So to use my right to propose edicts in the Imperail Diet,i hereby propose Edict 1.5 Incase the Diet decides that a crusade is to be sent to the Holy Land. Kaiser Heinrich,should lead it.

Dietrich sits down back on his place.

I do not believe that is a good idea, Dietrich von Sachsen.
Everyone should join the crusade out of their own will, not be forced into it.
The purpose of a crusade is to repent and seek salvation, something that must come from the depths of one's self.
If one believes that one has not sinned, or one does not need to seek salvation, or even knows that there is no tangible chance of ever completing that task, then there is no need for them to go.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"I completely agree with the previous speaker. Those who feel no remorse becouse of the sins they have committed themselves, should stay home and not depart to the Holy land. But no doubt that a task so magnificigent like taking back the holy grave should be lead by the Kaiser of the most Christian Empire on the face of the Earth. This is honour,not forcing anyone."

Regarding the provision of Rome or Florence to the Papacy, Florence clearly cannot be taken away from Bavaria without Duke Otto's permission. While the wording is not specific about the Emperor's ability to retain control of his own provinces, it also does not say that they can be removed from him by Edict. In the event of a dispute, the Kaiser would rule on the interpretation which I believe we all know would lead to him retaining Rome.

There is no point in discussing providing a settlement to the Papacy if the owner of the settlement is unwilling to part with it. I am only a Count and would have to consult with Duke Otto in private, but I would be willing to give up my noble title and allow Nuremburg to be given to the Papacy. However, I will only volunteer for this sacrifice if the Diet supports Edict E1.1. I believe firmly that that method is the best way to benefit of the Reich.

The Third Elector stands and rereads Edict 1.4

I would like to second Duke Lepolds Edict and which has been second by the 5th Elector of Austria. Stating:

The City of Rome or the City of Florence is to be returned to whichever Cardinal gets elected as Pope in the upcoming Elections.
Once we have been reconciled and the proper amount of time has passed we will ask the current Pope to call a Crusade against Jerusalem so that every man in the Empire willing to take up the sword may do so to redeem the sins we have laden upon us in the recent bloodshed between Emperor Heinrich and Gregory.
After the city is captured, it will be given as a gift to the current Pope, to allow him to permanently reign over Christendom from the land of Christ. The Crusade will be governed as follows:

1: Every general who wishes to join the Crusade may do so.
2: For the duration of the Crusade, all limits on army composition will not apply to any Crusade armies.
3: The Crusade is authorized to declare war on any non-Catholic faction it encounters, if it deems such a declaration of war to be necessary.
4: All strategic decisions regarding the Crusade, such as choice of settlements to attack and commanders of the Crusading armies, will be made by the generals who participate in the Crusade. All decisions will be made by majority vote, without regard for earthly influence. We are all equal in the eyes of God on this Holy Mission.
5: All Edicts relating to the Crusade will remain in effect until the Papacy governs Jerusalem or until every last Crusader lies dead, whichever comes first.

That makes 2 seconders for Edict 1.4
There cannot be a true Crusade without lawful authority.

The Elector returns to his seat

Dietrich Von Saxony gazes at the 3rd Austrian Elector from his seat and says

"I believe that your seconding makes three of us,who have seconded Leopold´s edict.

With a little smile, hardly regogniceable, he takes a sip from his wine.

In accordance with private agreements, I am amending Edict E1.1 to remove subsection 5 (dealing with restrictions on expansion). The new Edict E1.1 reads as follows:

Quote:

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Edict E1.1: In an effort to make penance for whatever sins we have incurred upon our souls during the violent overthrow and death of Pope Greogry, the Reich will launch a Crusade to capture the Holy City of Jerusalem. After the city is captured, it will be given as a gift to the sitting Pope, to allow him to permanently reign over Christendom from the land of Christ. The Crusade will be governed as follows:

1: Every general who wishes to join the Crusade may do so.
2: For the duration of the Crusade, all limits on army composition will not apply to any Crusade armies.
3: The Crusade is authorized to declare war on any non-Catholic faction it encounters, if it deems such a declaration of war to be necessary.
4: All strategic decisions regarding the Crusade, such as choice of settlements to attack and commanders of the Crusading armies, will be made by the generals who participate in the Crusade. All decisions will be made by majority vote, without regard for earthly influence. We are all equal in the eyes of God on this Holy Mission.
5: All Edicts relating to the Crusade will remain in effect until the Papacy governs Jerusalem or until every last Crusader lies dead, whichever comes first.

---

Prinz Henry: I propose the old clause 5 of E1.1 as a standalone edict:

Edict E1.6: If E1.1 passes, for the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies.

Since revised E1.1 is now identical to E1.3, I ask the 5th Elector of Swabia to withdraw E1.3.

OOC: Revised Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

I second Edict E1.6 (econ21's) and Revised Charter Amendment CAE1.1.

My fellow electors, perhaps persumptious (sp) of me, but I worry about the home front while on this great crusade. I worry that with no limitation on military action all this work to be redeemed will be for naught, I worry that should we adopt a defensive strategy, the HRE will be come a ripe target, or that many could-be-great generals will languish in obscurity. It is with these concerns in mind that I present a third option.

Emergency Edict 1.7:

Should edict E1.1 pass for the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

edit: for edict #

I will second edict E1.6 (econ) and E1.7 (Stuperman)

They should both be put to a vote.

OOC Edit: Changed to show correct edict numbers.

I will also second Edict E1.7 (Stuperman's) for voting purposes.

I withdraw E1.3 as the chancellor has agreed to split his edict after discussion

Prinz Henry: A list of edicts and their seconders has been posted at the entrance to the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...25&postcount=1

Please advise me if there are any errors.

OOC: The Constitutional Amendment still needs another seconder.

OOC:I will support the amendment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Dietrich Von Saxony gazes at the 3rd Austrian Elector from his seat and says

"I believe that your seconding makes three of us,who have seconded Leopold´s edict.

With a little smile, hardly regogniceable, he takes a sip from his wine.

---

Stands to address Dietrich Von Saxony among the other speakers

My Lord, I apologies for my oversight and the House of Austria is grateful for your support to Duke Leopolds edict.

Sits back down and reviews edicts

Kaiser Heinrich:

Leave me in peace, von Saxony! The reasons I have for not partaking in this crusade are my own. Whether you agree with my policies or not, you must respect the fact that the Reich has grown in power and prestige in my reign. My one last wish is to spend the remainder of my days here, in Rome.

Too much war.

Thats what I say, we all talk of fighting Nations in deserts of far away lands, gaining glory. WHat glroy does war have? What does Nations of far away lands have to do with us!?

We are already at war with Venice,Papal STates, Milan, Poland,France and manmy more, and now you want to send OUR armies away!? Leave our lands with no support? I assure you our enemies wills trike, and very hard.

SO I go against the Crusade, ti leaves us open, with ourselves surrounded by enemies!

Prinz Henry: Although it is by no means clear that Edict 1.1 will pass, in the event that it does, it may speed the Chancellor's job of organising a crusade if he knows from the start who would wish to join it.

Consequently, I ask each Duke to state who among their House would join the crusade proposed in Edict 1.1?

For Swabia's part, in view of Count Von Salva's statement, I believe it will only be I who joins. I would also wish to commit to the crusade some of the resources that would otherwise go to the Swabian Household Army - at least one regiment of pavisse crossbows and one of dismounted Feudal knights. I would also be willing to detach other forces if the Chancellor judges they are required and can be spared. I do not believe the crusade should set off with less than the full complement of 20 regiments, including our bodyguards.

Duke Leopold has also declared against the crusade and so presumably would not join.

I wonder what Duke Otto and Duke Dietrich can say about the contribution of the Houses of Bavaria and Franconia?

Prinz Henry, you are most wise to bring up this topic. The very reason I wished for the Emergency Session to be called this year was to allow me to use the time remaining in my term to assemble the Crusade. If Edict E1.1 passes and everything goes as planned, I anticipate that the Crusade could depart in the first or second year of the next Chancellor's term.

As there seems to be a somewhat lackluster response to the Crusade, I do not anticipate an over-abundance of volunteers. Accordingly, I declare my intention to join.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"Mein Prinz, i will place my support behind the edict 1.4 from Duke Leopold.Becouse to me it sounds more reasonable. Incase still if 1.1 will pass. I will myself will join the Crusade. I know im old,but i think it is as holy task to join the Crusade as its is to see it reach its destination. Which i will propably not witness.My Counts and Knight Von Mahren can decide themselves,if they will take the cross or not. Due to nature of Franconia and its large defendable area.I would prefer for atleast two of my Commanders to stay home, so Franconia can be protected from enemies of the Reich. About the troops.I wish that only our escorts and maybe some Teutonic knights would join the Crusade.We need every other men to fend of the enemies of Franconia"

Otto rises to speak.

It is only fitting that Maximillian, who proposed the idea of this Crusade, will represent Bavaria. I wish that I could go as well, but I have already given my reasons as to why I will stay to defend the Reich and Bavaria. I have not heard from Gerhard Steffen, and I will not speak for him.

Once the Bavarian Household Army has finished the remnants of the Milanese on the mainland, Bavarian territories will be relatively secure. I will then put the Army at the disposal of the Chancellor. He may take as much of the Army as he wishes to the Holy Land, I leave it to his discretion. Bavaria supports the Crusade in word and deed!

Otto sits.

Prinz Henry: Gentlemen, I think we have all said what we have to say and I fear I am going down with a temperature. I have instructed the scribe to open the polls for 24 hours. Now, I shall retire for the evening. This our first Emergency Session is closed.

Walks up to the guards in a long robe and whispers to the guard who lets me in...The diet is empty bc of voting. I walk in slowly touching the marble of the diet. I spot my seat and walk to the middle of the diet. I notice the true granduere of the diet as it imposes when empty. Sits in his empty seat and waits for the rest of the Diet.

comes in after the voting to read in the quiet... and spots the other elector...

well now... what a pleasent suprise to find you back... are you going to kill anyone this time?... i was eagerly awaiting it last time...

laughs at his minor sarcasm... goes to his seat and opens a book

Behind my long brown robe with face hidden in a low deep voice

It would seem so noble lord. 'r tis true of your pleasentness? Mein noble i extend thy hand in frienship, I hope thou shall find peace in thy heart. Mein noble sire, elector of Austria, thou shalt always be considered friendly to me. I have never had coarse relations t'word thee. But tis death thou seeks, than i shall watch your back and together fight the infidels on our lords will. What say you mein elector, whilst thou take thy hand in peace?

Raises hand out of the robe, holding it out sincerely. Face is still covered waiting for the electors response

puts down his book and walks over... suddenly thankfull for his chainmail armor on underneith his clothing...

i will take your offer of peace... but maybe i made a mistake earlier? i must have... you seemed very similar to another... my apoliges far elector...

takes his hand in agreement

Looks up at the elector..his eyes steady at the his slight response to the armor underneath

Thank you honorable sir. It is i who am blessed for your honor. Nods May i inquisite as thou may confuse me of? It seems you react as such a man of little confusion. I assure you sir Tis not the same person underneath you have doth witnessed before. But a man anew blessed by ze Lord above. Here stands a man charitable in peace with wisdom and calmness. 'ver the battlefield is the same man but with the attitude of a lion and prowess of a tiger. For thy will serve no better honor to watch your back. Humbly sir I wish you well and do not want to delay your reading further with my rhetoric. Thank you again.

Nods again and lowers his head, covering the armor

Kaiser Heinrich:

So certainly you will take back your previous remarks about your Lord and Kaiser, then, Good Elector.

starteled by sudden appearance of the Kiaser... the elector moves quickly back to his seat... and sits... reading and listen to the insuing conversation between the two

In the corner of his eye, notices the Kaizer. Steps off his seat and walks to the Kaizer....Speaks softly...facing man to man, the face still halfly covered by the hood

It seems that i 've over stepped my bounds mein Kaizer. I hope that you will take heed to thy message of impending attack. However thou has something to speak of, once the diet has returned. If thou doth allow me to speak first i shall make my intentions be known. I know thou will not trust thy honorable self just yet...But will say this, thy Kaizer is control of the holy city..it seems God favors you. In thus calling me good, i am humbly capable of your postion..thus acquiescent of your venerable valence. Allow thee triumphant one, to return such a gift has thou returned upon me. Mein self will become whole upon mention. For you i wll fight for.

Extends his hand in show of good faith.

Nevermind.

Well von Sachsen, it seems that the scribe made a clerical error and omitted the emperor's votes the first time.
The new results problaim that E1.1 is in effect accompanied by E1.7

And I suppose we need to vote on how to punish the scribe for omitting the emperor's votes.

Dietrich Von Saxony

And it seems that the polls are not even closed yet. There are still Electors who hasnt voted.

Electors, it has not passed my attention that there has been much speculation about the next election for Chancellor. I have heard several suggestions that I run for re-election. I wish to firmly state here and now that I will not seek another term in office. It was during my Chancellorship that this conflict with Pope Gregory finally erupted into open war. I failed to keep the peace and we are now forced to embark on a Crusade to purge these sins.

There are many Electors who would make a worthy candidate for Chancellor. I encourage all who have any interest in the position to consider campaigning in 1160.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"My stand on issue is double edged. If we are to embark on the crusade immediately like 1.1 suggest´s. In that case i will not run for Chancellor,since i couldnt do honour for the rank,since i would be travelling away to far away lands. Incase 1.1 doesnt pass. I would be honoured to apply for the position of the next Chancellor of the Reich,now before i will turn too old to handle the affairs of the Reich."

Dietrich bows to the Diet and sits back on his place.

Gunther of Eichstadt, looking somewhat better after the end of the Investiture Crisis, stands to read a message from Otto to the Diet:

My Lords, Duke von Kassel has fulfilled Edict 5.13 by engaging and utterly beating the Milanese forces outside of Genoa. The Milanese lord, Bindello Columbana was killed in battle. Of the 653 Milanese, 257 were killed, 370 were captured and only 26 escaped. The Duke wishes to congratulate Gerhard Steffen, he and his retainers were responsible for killing or capturing 230 men alone.

The prisoners were released. . .

Gunther looks quizzically at the message.

Hmm? He must have written that wrong. . .it says the prisoners were released and they took flight to a Milanese galley off shore. None of those "bloody merchants" are left on the mainland. Imperial losses were 150 men.

Gunther sits.

Eichstadt, I am quite certain Edict 5.13 called for the destruction of the Milanese remaining on the mainland, not the release of Milanese to the ships. Could you inform von Kassel about this?

Prinz Henry: My congratulations to Duke Otto for expelling the Milanese from the continent! The Duke is now free to join Duke Dietrich, the Chancellor and myself in preparations for the crusade.

I would like to briefly comment on the outcome of the recent Emergency Diet. Although the majority decisions were clear, I recognise that active Electors were deeply divided on the merits of both a crusade and a limit on our expansion during that crusade. I know there is unhappiness both among those who are not joining the crusade (looks at Leopold) and those who are (looks at Dietrich).

I can only say that, as a member for the Council of Crusaders and, God willing, as a future Emperor, I will work to the best of my abilities to further the interest and respond to the concerns of all Electors. I will try to ensure that no House or Elector is disadvantaged by joining or not joining the Crusade. I see the crusade as providing more opportunities both for participants and non-participants. I will work equally hard to secure the defence of the Reich and the success of the Crusade. While the crusade will initially stretch the resources of the Reich, I believe in the long term it will bring us closer to our goal of re-establishing hegemony of the Roman Empire over Europe.

That said, I must now attend to my duties outside the Diet. For those of us going on the crusade, there are preparations to be made. For those who are staying behind, they too have work to do: dark clouds are gathering as our many enemies muster against us.

Otto von Kassel enters the Diet. He has a quick, whispered conversation with Gunther and then speaks:

Thank you, Prinz Henry, for your congratulations. I wish that your fellow Swabian was as gracious.

Fifth Elector, since I proposed edict 5.13, I believe that it has been accomplished. The Milanese Army that had been devastating Italian lands for many years has been destroyed, the survivors took flight to a Milanese fleet off the coast.

We could enter into a semantic argument where you would insist destruction implies the complete annihilation of every soldier in that Army. I would respond that the organization and leadership of the Army was destroyed, hence destroying the Army, with the survivors being meaningless to the equation. But I will not bandy words with you.

The prisoners were released for many reasons, it was not done on a whim. First, there was a route of retreat available that allowed the survivors to leave our territory. Second, since this Diet voted to leave the Milanese their islands and attempt peace negotiations, I felt releasing the prisoners might aid the negotiation process if it continued. Our reputation needs all the help it can get at the moment. Third, the Chancellor gave me no specific orders as to the disposition of prisoners, I used my judgement as an Army Commander, which is my right. If they are foolhardy enough to return, I'm sure Gerhard will finish them.

That is the justification for my actions. If a crushing defeat of the Milanese and expelling them from the mainland is not good enough for you, I suggest you pursue them to Corsica and finish the job with your own army.

Otto sits.

von Mahren enters the Diet, for the first time in years, and hurries over to join the Franconian delegation

Apologies for my recent absence. Matters in Prague have... Well, to be honest, matters in Prague have not kept me very busy at all. The city has been so peaceful lately that it was all too easy to forget all about politics and just wait for news from the rest of the Reich.

Well, news finally reached me, so here I am again. Unfortunately, I am too late to vote in the recent emergency session, but I would like to offer my services in the coming Crusade.

Kaiser Heinrich:

I congratulate Elector Maximillian Mandorf on a fine term. May others seek to live up to his example.

The 1160 Diet session is now open. Electors have three days to propose and second motions and two days to vote. In addition, any aspiring candidates for Chancellor should come forward.

*bangs gavel*

-edit- Elector nazgul3 has apologized sufficiently. He is therefore allowed to take part in the deliberations.

Kaiser Heinrich:

Good Electors, there has been talk of a Crusader standing for the position of Chancellor. I do not agree with this. To be blunt, the Reich has become quite large and difficult to manage. It has already been decided long ago that the terms of Chancellors were to be halved, and we have only grown in size since then. I do not see how one person will be able to manage this task when they are thousands of miles from Rome and not connected to the main body of the Empire at all.

Orders will be lost or stolen. In addition, they will not be able to properly assess the threats facing the homeland. I believe that the Chancellor's first goal should be to see the Reich prosper - not to make sure that a Crusade succeeds. That is why the Crusader Council is in place.

Therefore, I propose the following:

Charter Amendment 6.1: Electors are not allowed to hold the office of Chancellor if they are in a province that is separated from Imperial territory by over two provinces.

Seeing as my protests over the crusades are ignored, what is to happen with our empire in the Holy Lands? Will the lands be governed by all, will some house take control of it, or will a new house be formed to govern it?

When the Crusaders reach there crusade target, then I think either the Commanding General should govern the settlement, or the most experinced.

And at I guess, once we have conquered our target, we look to expanding more in the Holy Land?

When the Crusaders reach there crusade target, then I think either the Commanding General should govern the settlement, or the most experinced.

And at I guess, once we have conquered our target, we look to expanding more in the Holy Land?

OOC:
After discussion in the OOC thread and with econ21, I propose
OOC Charter Amendment 6.2:
Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

If you want more information on those or a copy beforehand, that can be arranged.

IC: So the diet is officially open, yes?

I would like to remind all Electors that in accordance with Charter Amendment 5.2:, only 1 Edict or Amendment is permitted per Elector. If you wish to propose more than one, you must get the permission of your Duke to use one of the three Household edict slots. Remember that each of the Household edicts must be pre-seconded by two members of your Household.

Consider carefully any Edicts that you are about to propose. A poorly written and ill-conceived Edict will simply waste your time and could prevent you from proposing any more.

Prinz Henry: After some reflection, I have decided to stand for Chancellor. This is with some reluctance, as there are other men - Dietrich, Otto and indeed Maximillan who has served us so well - who I would prefer to see as the next Chancellor. But these fine men have indicated a desire not to stand and so I feel obliged to do so in their stead.

The last Chancellorship, through no fault of the incumbent, saw the will of the Diet usurped by the machinations of my father. He plunged us into a state of crisis, excommunicated for our action in taking Rome. This creates two challenges for the Reich: to endure and to atone.

Enduring will not be easy. What we have seen so far is the calm before the storm. The Chancellor has reported significant French, Hungarian and Venetian armies on or in our borders. Electors, these are but the vanguard. As we speak, the Catholic kings are using all their powers to raise extra revenue to fund holy wars against us. The non-Catholics do likewise, sensing the threat that our nascent crusade poses to them. We have voted to restrain our own expansion during the coming years. This was wise, as surely much of our efforts will be devoted to restraining the expansion of others.

I believe I am well equipped to safeguard our Empire during this difficult period. It was I who conceived of the idea of Household Armies. I believe these forces will be instrumental in safeguarding our frontiers. I will strive to modernise these forces - using the fortresses of Staufen and Thorn to provide dismounted feudal knights and pavisse crossbowmen to upgrade our capacity. Electors, you will recall I was criticised at the start of the last Chancellorship for wishing to pour vast amounts of money into the creating a fortress at Staufen. Now, gentlemen, you will see how I will repay that investment.

But enduring is not enough. We have committed ourselves to atone for our actions in taking Rome by embarking on a great crusade. Shepherding that crusade towards the Holy Land will be the main enterprises of the Reich in the years to come. I submit that it will be most efficiently executed by electing a crusader as Chancellor. Only a man fully committed to this enterprise can be trusted to make sure it is well funded and well coordinated. We have already seen what can be done if an unscrupulous figure bends laws to further their own agenda. We cannot have a repeat of such discord and division. We must work together, harmonising the dual goals of saving our Reich and saving our souls. Committing the task of guarding the Reich and guiding the Crusade to one and the same person is the best way to achieve this.

There are those who question whether a crusader can govern the Reich. Such men would have you believe that Jerusalem is on the moon! If the Romans could govern Jerusalem, could not a man in Jerusalem govern Rome? Good lines of communication will be created - our sourthern navy rebuilt to ensure them - and I will appoint a functionary who will represent me in the Diet. But Electors, I say this in all humility: if elected Chancellor, I will not rule over you. I will act as a facilitator - ensuring the smooth execution of the wishes of the Houses and the Council of Crusaders. I will liase and inform; I will endeavour to chart a smooth passage over the troubled waters that lie ahead - for both the homelands and the crusade.

There is one other issue that may concern the Electors - what if my father should pass on while I am Chancellor? In such an event, I swear that if elected, I would not use my Royal perogative to take the next Chancellorship as well. I recognise that having one man in power for too long is undesirable. I will reserve my perogative for a later time, perhaps when some new crisis befalls us and once again I feel obliged to serve you.

I second the Kiaser's propisition

Quote:

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Charter Amendment 6.1: Electors are not allowed to hold the office of Chancellor if they are in a province that is separated from Imperial territory by over two provinces.

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as i belive that only a gerneral in the Reich, can truly contral the Reich...

also

Quote:

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If the Romans could govern Jerusalem, could not a man in Jerusalem govern Rome?

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i must say that has not the Roman Empire fallen into ruins?... and historicly... has not Judea been the most secsesful of the revolts agianst Rome?... Distance makes every hardship multiply.

I will refrain from commenting on the election and proposed Amendments until others have had a chance to speak. However, there is one issue I feel strongly about. Accordingly, I shall use my personal Edict to propose the following:

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.

There are many in this Diet who have given great services to their Houses. *Mandorf nods respectfully to some members of the Austrian delegation.* Yet these men are deprived of land and title due to the nature of our laws. We must change this so that those who demonstrate great loyalty and aptitude may be rewarded by their Dukes.

Fourth Elector of Swabia stands up clapping

I vehemently support Prinz Henry's decision to run for Chancellor. He has been a strong leader for the House of Swabia for many years now and have lead us to nothing but success and will no doubt do the same for the Empire should he be elected.

The Kaiser's proposition however is troublesome. As our empire grows, our war fronts will be farther and farther away from the heartland of the Empire. How could we have a competent Chancellor if they are oblivious to our war efforts and sits safely in our capital throwing orders around. It is rather better to have a Chancellor that comes from the fringes of our Empire as he will have a better perspective regarding the situations at our borders and know how to deal with external problems.

Kaiser Heinrich:

I have but one response to Henry's comments.

Quote:

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He plunged us into a state of crisis, excommunicated for our action in taking Rome.

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Good Electors, let me throw out a number here:

Zero.

That is the number of new wars we have been involved in since my "despicable" actions got us excommunicated. That is the number of territories we have lost since we have been excommunicated. Hell, that is the number of settlements that have been threatened aside from those that the Papacy have.

Life has gone on as usual since Rome has been taken, Good Electors! The noble houses of Franconia and Austria have continued to make progress against their longtime enemies, just as they have before the excommunication! All that has been lost in this situation is a man in a position of power who was unfriendly to us.

Good Electors, Prinz Henry speaks of nonexistent threats. He is using the actions of his evil, unholy, despicable father (me) as a campaign platform, promising change. Well, maybe change isn't good! After all, look at how much excommunication has hurt us! Don't forget, thanks to my doings we will soon have a Pope that will give us carte blanche.

And finally, I forgot. Please excuse my old age, but I have one more comment to respond to.

Quote:

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If the Romans could govern Jerusalem, could not a man in Jerusalem govern Rome?

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The difference is, Henry, that all of the land between Jerusalem and Rome was Roman.

Prinz Henry, you are simply not qualified for the position of Chancellor. You have not the stomach for it. Unfortunately, the Reich will automatically be subject to a term of your Chancellorship due to your God-given power as incoming Kaiser. Please spare them from a second term.

Otto's gaze travels between the Kaiser and the Prinz. He rubs the scar on the right side of his face as he looks down at a small note in his hand. The Duke rises to speak.

I will second Charter Amendments 6.2 and 6.3.

Otto moves to sit, but turns to speak to the Emperor.

Mein Kaiser, if you wish to run for Chancellor, I will support you. If not, I will support your eldest son. Next time, please send your men to my study. I would not have Elsebeth disturbed while she is sleeping.

Otto bows to Heinrich. Heels clicking together as he comes to attention, he pivots crisply and returns to his seat.

*Maximillian Mandorf raises an eyebrow when the Kaiser begins speaking. After the first few lines, he chuckles slightly.*

Zero wars? Do you not consider our conflict with the Papal States to be a war? I suppose your battles at Rome and Genoa were simply 'keeping order'? Since this is not a war, was your recent unwillingness to face Pope Accattus on the field due to his odor?

Zero territories lost? I suppose Pope Gregory was merely touring the wonderous sites of Genoa for a few years. I must admit, he was rather more energetic than I would expect for a Bishop of Rome. The festivities he threw must have been truely extravagant, for he left the entire city something of a mess. I would hate to imagine what would have happened had Pope Gregory decided to actually take the city.

Yes, my Kaiser. Thank you for all the good you have done for us lately. We are all immensely grateful for your selfless acts. By the way, do you know if Pope Accattus is planning a party in Rome? I hear he takes after his predecessor in some respects.

Mein Prinz do you not think that being Chancellor would burden your prior commitments like the Crusade? I believe that should be your first priority, not matters at home since you will be far from the Reich. Since my Duke will be accompanying you on the Crusade I would rather your full attention be focused on that.

Fifth Elector of Franconia, as you know the Crusade will be governed by a five man Council of equals, of which I am but one. A key issue for the Crusade will be liasing with the Chancellor, to make sure it is informed by the latest intelligence and well supported by Imperial resources. Electing a crusader to the post will minimise the chance of delays, misunderstandings and lack of coordination.

As to my father's reference to imaginary threats, we will see. I will wager that Hungary and Denmark will strike against us soon; perhaps Sicily too. Such events will particularly challenge the two Houses my father has identified as having made progress: Franconia and Austria.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"Mein Prinz, just as you stated.Houses of Franconia and Austria will be in most danger after we have left. And becouse of that i think the Chancellor should come from other of those houses. My opinion stands that the Chancellor should be in Germany and i dont see a better man in the Reich,for the next Chancellor as Duke Leopold of Austria,if he decides to run."

Mein Kaiser, Dukes, Electors!

It has not been long since we last met in this hall to discuss the proceedings of our Empire. A far-reaching decision has been made by this august body to assemble a host and march East. A Crusade it should be, without the consent of the Pope, and a Crusade it will be by the power of this Assembly. You all know my opinion on these matter through the Edict I have proposed during the Emergency Diet. Of course I would have preferred that course of action, but I have full respect for the decision made and will follow it. This leaves me no choice but to stay behind. Our borders will be threatened and I will be needed to defend the Reich against it's enemies. Like a shield I will stand before any intruders trying to advance on the lands of Austria, and I offer you to stand like a shield before anyone trying to harm the Empire in the upcoming times. I offer myself for the post of Chancellor, if you so accept me.

As you know I hail from a border-country and know of the perils that lay at the fringes of our Empire. I have proven in the past that I am capable of keeping our enemies at bay. Time and time again have I defended my lands against the Venetian merchantmen and my army is ready to strike at their capital of Venice as we speak. I assure you that I am well capable of delivering the same feat upon anyone daring to attack our lands, to ravage our countryside and slaughter our people!
But what would endless war, but even more war breed?
Therefore I will dedicate my Chancellorship to securing our borders, and building up our infrastructure. The Ducal armies of Swabia and Bavaria need to be brought to full strength so that our Western border may be as secure as our Eastern border has become. We will be spread thin and troubled times lie ahead of us. I promise to give to those remaining all the support necessary to defend our Reich from its enemies on all sides. We shall crush any armies entering our territories and send out emissaries to commission peace. It will not be a peace of weakness, but a peace of strength, dictated by us to our satisfaction. If our enemies won't accept, let them come and we shall break their attacks, like the rocks crush the surf!

I appreciate Prince Henry's commitment to also stand for Chancellor. There will be troublesome times ahead for him and those pious and noble men that have chosen to accompany him, too. Hardships will await them on their journey beyond the imagination of most men present here, travelling through the lands of he heathens will face these men with many challenges, and only the bravest, strongest, and mightiest will prevail. I will give those men, the troops and support they need to carry out their enormous task. I will help you plot the best course through the treacherous lands of our enemies and follow any orders given by the Crusader Council to the letter to assure that your journey will be successful. Let my first help be my candidacy for Chancellorship. It will be an honour for me to relieve my brother Prince Henry of this burden, so that he may focus all his attentions towards the success of your mission. We all know that full dedication will be needed and any distraction could spell disaster for the whole enterprise.

It is vital for our Crusade to succeed to be welcomed back in the family of our Christian neighbours. This will make peace an option in our future. Either way it will take years to do this and my Chancellorship will probably not see the end of your journey, meaning that it will take a long time until any Pope will recognize and appreciate the success and rightfulness of our actions.
This brings me to the next point, concerning our current excommunication. I don't know how long our Kaiser and Pope Attacus intend to play hound and hare in the vicinity of Rome, but this has to end. I will send emissaries to Attacus in an attempt to end the current situation. I have already mentioned in the last Diet what steps could be undertaken by those responsible for our current situation to remedy it. If you would but agree then I promise you we could be reconciled by the end of the next turn. Currently excommunication puts a major strain on our tax revenues through the unrest it is causing among our populace and will incite our neighbours to attack us.
Don't think that any amendations to the Papacy now will be permanently. Once the Pope has Jerusalem he will joyfully give back the temporal home we have given to him. If not, I would not be opposed to a forceful persuasion. I'm sure he will thank us for it generously once he arrives in Jerusalem.

This concludes my aims should I become Chancellor. I will reside by the rulings of this Council and hope that you will find me worthy of leading us through these troubled times.

He bows deeply in front of the Diet.

I will second all Charter Amendments proposed thus far.

Kaiser Heinrich:

Since the Prinz only addresses one of my comments directed at him, I assume that he agrees with the other statements I have made.

As for Mandorf, do not deny that every settlement in our possession before excommunication is in our possession now.

I wholeheartedly support Duke Leopold's bid for Chancellorship in this upcoming election, and I encourage all others, especially those whom I've helped out in the past, to do so as well.

Prinz Henry: Father, as usual you presume too much. I doubt there is anything you could say in this Diet which you could assume I agree with. Were you to say that you have ten toes, I would ask you to remove your boots before I concurred.

stands up into the heat of a family fued

Kiaser, Prinz... will you excuse me

I would like to propose an Edict, Edict 6.1 I belive? ... anyways excuse my numbering if i am wrong

Edict 6.1 If, during the course of the crusade, Hungary Declares War upon the Reich in anyway, the Reich will strick back by taking Budapest. This shall take into account Papel relations, and will not be used if Excuminication insues

I Belive that Budapest would be a great addition to the Eastern Front, and will surely power the Reich in many glorious campaigns to come.

sits

Kaiser Heinrich:

And yet, you still do not respond to these comments. At least make an effort to do something aside from attack me.

Duke Leopold, at the last election it was obvious that you were nothing more than a tool of the Kaiser. Why is that no longer the case? You are a very capable military commander and I do not doubt your management abilities, but I have not forgotten where you stood during the last election. It is clear that the Kaiser remains delusional and self-righteous. He does not see any error in what he has done and he thinks there have been no consequences of importance. I will not see an ally of the Kaiser in the Chancellor's office.

I for one do not find it prudent if a crusader takes the post of Chancellor. Even one as competent as our very own Prince Henry. Who knows what may happen out in the east, and we need stability and certainty now more than ever. Especially since we 'll be losing tons of troops and half a dozen noble generals to a crusade to the Holy land.

I find that a Chancellor such as Leopold, of the noble house of Austria, would be best for the Reich. Not only has he shown, numerous times I might add, how to make our enemies suffer, but he also knows how it is to defend. Austria is much like Franconia, it is never quite safe.


:balloon2:

Kaiser Heinrich:

Self-righteous? Delusional?! I do not think that there have been any consequences of importance because there have been no consequences of importance.

Our greatest enemy is removed. Soon Pope Accattus will be dead and we will have Otterbach on the Papal seat. Once again, none of the other great Catholic powers of Europe, save for the Papacy itself, have declared war on us. None. The Reich is still humming along financially. As a matter of fact, we are so secure in our position that we are about to send thousands of troops and several of our best generals on a Crusade to far-away Jerusalem. Good Electors, these are things we would not do if we were "crippled" by my horrid actions.

So, my Kaiser, is it no consequence that the only way we have been able to maintain order in nearly all of our cities has been to reduce taxes to the minimum level? Even at that level, Milan appears to be decending into rioting once again. The Imperial Treasury is losing many thousands of florins a year due to reduced taxes alone. Perhaps the Kings of Rome can defecate precious metals, but the rest of us mortal men have to secure incomes from our lands.

well... i must say that this diet has definatly desended into a group of men... defecating... insults at one another... in other... more bussiness like... and less insulting news... i support my Dukes, non-Kaiser, related bid for Chanclership.

Ah Count Mandorf, do I need to remind you that I have been one of the most outspoken critics of the Kaiser's actions in this Diet? I have alway opposed Excommunication and have already mentioned that I will do everything in my power to redeem the current situation, if those responsible give me the means to do it.

Speaking of the Kaiser's tools you don't even have to look beyond your own House to find one, I believe. I did what I did for the good of the House of Austria. Those dealings lie in the past and just because I returned Heinrich a favour that doesn't mean I succumbed to being his pawn, like others present here. Instead I remain independent as befits a Duke. If I get elected Chancellor I will follow no other agenda than the one outlined in my previous speech.

I did not intend disrespect by my question, Duke Leopold, and I apologize if that is how it was perceived. Indeed, I simply wished to hear from your own mouth that you are your own man and beholden to no one.

Von Mahren grins and, in a stage whisper, says to von Saxony, "You know what worries me the most about us going on a crusade? Never mind the dangers we will undoubtedly face, but I fear the Diet will soon descend into a bar brawl without the few level-headed nobles such as yourself and the Prinz to keep a minimum of order. I'll bet you 200 florins the building will be on fire when we return"

Ahem... Perhaps if the Kaiser still sees a need to justify his actions, he could do it elsewhere, without disrupting the Diet? If he believes there is nothing to discuss, why does he keep trying to discuss it?
And while I am sure this royal vendetta between father and son will be amusing to watch unfold, this is not the place for it.
Let us keep our minds on the business at hand. And let us try to remember that we are the leaders of the finest nation in Europe, not a group of thugs and barbarians. Let's have some order here, and treatour fellow electors with a minimum of courtesy, even if we disagree with their actions.

I believe the Prinz would make an excellent chancellor. He has shown his worth before, and I have no doubt he would be a good choice. Nevertheless, he is embarking on a crusade, and, let's face it, may not return alive. And if he does, it won't be for many years. At the moment, the Reich needs a Chancellor whose focus is on our homelands, and who is not thousands of miles away. Perhaps after the Crusade, he can take up the position as Chancellor.

I will support Duke Leopold in the coming election.

Quote:

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Perhaps if the Kaiser still sees a need to justify his actions, he could do it elsewhere, without disrupting the Diet? If he believes there is nothing to discuss, why does he keep trying to discuss it?
And while I am sure this royal vendetta between father and son will be amusing to watch unfold, this is not the place for it.

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Elector von Mahren, this being my city and my Diet, I will decide what is and is not proper, thank you. I simply want the Prinz to toughen up and act like a man, not the version of Henry that is more like his two sisters than a Prinz that we have seen.

Mandorf - this situation will be resolved as soon as Otterbach is elevated to the Papacy.

Kaiser Heinrich:

Upon further deliberation, have it your way, Mandorf.

Edict 6.2: This Edict hereby instructs the Chancellor to have Kaiser Heinrich, reinforced with the full garrison of Rome, attack Pope Accattus so that the Reich may be reconciled more quickly.

I believe that will ease our public order problem, will it not?

Mein Kaiser, Regarding Edict 6.2 may require an amendment to say attack the current Pope and beyond to future office holders until the Kaiser's choice is elected. We do not have enough votes in the College nor enough influence to persuade the other Cardinals to vote for the honourable Otterbach. It may take several elections before we have the true Pope.

Kaiser Heinrich:

The Pope and the Danish Cardinal currently in the preferati are both quite old and in poor health. If the Danish Cardinal dies before the Pope does, then Otterbach will be elevated to the preferati. If the Pope dies before the Danish Cardinal, then I will simply ensure that that Danish Cardinal gets elected.