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"Undead" had archers in 5th edition.
6th edition introduced the Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings of Khemri as completely differentiated teams. Before, "Undead" were essentially the two teams merged, with less fluff fleshed out.
Vampire Counts have no ranged units other than necromancers and vampires who use magic.
Tomb kings, on the other hand, have archers, though they are very poor.
I thought Bwain was only including javilen throwers to the vampire counts, but VC arcers would be cool.
nahh.. VC shuld be a all melee army..
If you include archers, the AI will use the whole army all wrong.. Melee i tell you, melee..
now that the time brought,the new vampire counts are going to be realesed.they are magnificient models and that will be the reason that i will start a new army.bwian,give them a check(they are trully perfect).and by the way,where are you so long????hhmmm,family's responsibilities?are you ok or something???but nevermind,if you have troubles,we can wait!!!!!!whenever you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LONG LIVE BWIAN!!!!!!!!!(i never undestand if this is your real name:wall: ):egypt:
I'm assuming "Bwian", is his real name if pronounced by the governor of Judea. But that's just a wild guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexader
yeah,i thought of that.LOL.you know.....Bwian ith thhat thou?(say it like the govenor.hahahahahha):egypt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal_Barca
Yeap. In the storm of chaos von carstein army list the vampires had skeletons troops armed with crossbows. Check it out.
Some of the new Vampire Count models are awesome:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampire...ypt_ghouls.jpg
Crypt Ghouls
Crypt Ghouls are ugly, stooping creatures with only a vestigial sense of reason. Their skin is dark and filthy, their eyes bestial and insane, and their snarling lips reveal sharp-pointed teeth in their slavering mouths. They dress only in the rags they pull from their victims and carry weapons they have picked up or have crudely fashioned from the remains of their unwholesome meals. They do not need such implements, however, as they have long claws sufficient for their needs. These natural weapons are encrusted with the filth of decay. Those that take even the lightest scratch from a Crypt Ghoul's swipe might die from their infected wounds.
Though not truly the living dead, Crypt Ghouls can unconsciously feel the Dark Magic that surrounds all of the most powerful Undead lords. They are drawn to Vampires like moths to a flame, and their newfound master quickly dominates their weak wills. Crypt Ghouls are cowardly, selfish creatures and will usually slink away from combat in small groups rather than retreat or rout en masse like a regiment. Though they cannot literally be raised like the living dead, Crypt Ghouls can be summoned through Dark Magic. Those who are fleeing are infused with the ire of their master and they unwillingly rejoin their packs. Crypt ghouls tend to follow the armies of the Undead, seeking to feast on the battlefield after the enemy has been defeated. These skulking onlookers can be gripped by the power of the Undead commander and dragged forth to bolster the numbers of their filthy kin.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampire...orpse_cart.jpg
Corpse Cart
When Vlad unleashed the armies of Sylvania upon the Empire, between the trudging crowds of Zombies and the ranks of Skeletons could be seen the disgusting Corpse Carts. Driven by macabre, shrouded figures, these wagons are made of rotted wood, rusted metal and diseased flesh, heaped with writhing body parts. Clawed limbs reach out from the Corpse Cart's interior to grab at those close by. The Corpse Carts act like magnets to Dark Magic, drawing its power from the ground and air and animating the dead around them. Sometimes a Corpse Cart is hung with a great bell, with a clapper of pure warpstone. When Necromantic magic is cast upon the Corpse Cart the bell tolls menacingly and ripples of Dark Magic spread out from the Corpse Cart. Under the influence of this mystical knell, the dead are drawn back together and corpses stagger to their feet. Other times, Corpse Carts have been sighted with braziers burning with dark flames. The smoke from these balefires contains particles of warpstone, which interfere with the Winds of Magic and drive enemy wizards insane.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampire...s/varghulf.jpg
Varghulf
Within every Vampire lurks a predatory creature, driven to feed on blood time and again. For many Vampires it is a curse, something to keep in check, an unavoidable price for their powers. These Vampires maintain the pretences of the living, moving amongst human society and concealing their nature. Yet not all Vampires care for the trappings of life or seek to control their inner urges. There are a few Vampires who embrace their thirst, who allow the bestial hunter within to take over.
These are the Varghulfs � blood-mad killers that exist only to feed. Like enraged, starved wolves, they run rampant, devouring whole villages and yet never sating their thirst. They slaughter without mercy, luxuriating in bloody carnage. As well as devouring the living, a Varghulf will ransack graves and feast upon the bodies of the dead. Other Vampires consider them disgusting scavengers, though nonetheless desirable and deadly fighters despite their uncivilised behaviour.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampire...rn_wraiths.jpg
Cairn Wraiths
Cairn Wraiths and Tomb Banshees are amongst the most powerful of the Undead. Though they lack physical form, their touch drains the life of a mortal. Their very presence fills the air with dread, and most who face them are driven mad with fear long before they are killed. Though possessed of their own will, there are rituals that a Vampire uses to call forth these unquiet spirits and bind them to his army. Filled with rage, the spirits fall upon the enemy. Only when released can they return to their dismal abodes.
Before the founding of the Colleges of Magic, men knew little about the magical arts. For thousands of years there were tribal wise men, gifted seers, healers, astrologers and others who were viewed with suspicion, awe or fear. Through a quirk of nature or mindset, these lucky few were able to use the Winds of Magic with relative safety. For most, the only magic that could be harnessed was sorcery � the use of magic in its undivided form. These sorcerers dabbled with magical energies, scribbling their sporadic findings into stone tablets, recording their crude knowledge on ancient vellum and crumbling parchments. Many did not realise the dangers of what they were doing, nor the harm their magic did to those around them. Slowly, the sorcery corrupted them. These sorcerers became steeped in Dark Magic and they learned to extend the span of their lives by decades, even centuries.
However, there were many who only preserved their spirits and not their bodies. Decay would take a sorcerer's mortal body, rotting it away even as he sought to sustain it. With no corporeal form to speak of, these sorcerers became wandering spirits � wraiths, spectres, ghosts. As their grip on the world of mortals weakened, these vagrant souls were drawn by Dark Magic to places of death, where they lingered, feeding on the sorrow of mourners. Not truly alive but unable to die, they became chilling shadows caught between this world and the next. Bound in the mortal realm to tombs and barrows, swathed in robes of shadow like visions of Death, these spirits became Cairn Wraiths.
Many sorceresses, enchantresses and witches have plagued Man over the centuries. The most bitter, restless spirits of these evil-hearted women become Tomb Banshees. Known as Grave Harridans in the southern Empire, The Wailing Hags in Bretonnia and the Freezing Shriek by Dwarfs, these shades cannot pass into the afterlife. They fear to cross the void and face whatever punishment awaits them for their evil deeds. Tomb Banshees constantly howl in remembrance of the pleasures of life that were theirs, and in bitterness for the peace of the grave that they cannot attain. Their wail can be lethal to mortals, and strikes terror into the hearts of all who hear it. Those who do not have hearts of iron can die of sheer fright upon hearing their mournful screams.
A Tomb Banshee's visage is skull-like, framed by tattered shadows of hair that writhe like a nest of serpents. She is swathed in flimsy shrouds and grave-robes, which swirl with a life of their own. A Tomb Banshee is surrounded by flickering ghostlights � the souls of the men she murdered whilst alive.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampire...od_knights.jpg
Blood Knights
Many years ago, the people of the Empire would have named the knights of the Order of the Blood Dragon amongst the noblest of warriors defending their lands. Their great fortress, Blood Keep, guarded the passes to Bretonnia and was famed for the strength of its walls and the valour of its defenders. As the Tome of Lamentations records, one night a man of great stature and noble bearing appeared before the gates and demanded entrance. He named himself as Walach of the Harkon family, and when the knights opened the gates, they sealed their doom.
Walach challenged the knights to combat. He slew them with ease, for he was a Vampire who had learned his war craft from the great Abhorash. Though no knight could hope to defeat the Undead monster, Walach spared those who fought bravely and with honour. To these knights he passed on his vampirism, the others he slew without pause and fed on their blood. Blood Keep became a Vampire lair, from which the deadly knights preyed upon those they once protected. Many decades later, the witch hunter Gunther van Hel discovered the truth and attacked Blood Keep with an army sent from Wissenland and Reikland, and supported by four Knightly Orders. The siege lasted for three years, during which the bloodshed was like nothing the men of the Empire had seen. Van Hel and his soldiers destroyed many Vampires when they finally stormed the castle, and hunted the survivors through the wilds for years to come. Blood Keep fell into ruin and its evil masters passed into myth.
The Blood Dragons may have been defeated, but some escaped, scattering across the Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea and further afield. Accomplished with lance and sword, these warriors became dark mercenaries, solitary duellists and fearsome raiders.
The Blood Knights are a macabre parody of the virtuous templars that Walach turned. Though they retain the dragon as their symbol, their armour is encrusted with images of death and slaughter. Their blades are fell weapons inscribed with dark runes, chased with precious metals and fashioned in the likeness of evil beasts. The blazons and crests of Blood Keep take the shape of dragons and dragon wings. The knights do not ride flesh-and-blood horses, but charge upon evil Nightmares with fiery eyes and foetid breath, clad in thick barding painted with disturbing icons of necromantic power.
Now, centuries after the demise of their order, there are whispers that Blood Keep is once again inhabited. Those who live near the mountains say nocturnal hunters perturb the folk of the Dwarf Holds. Gossipmongers claim that immortal knights once more feast on human blood in the ancient halls, and skeletal sentries patrol the ramparts. Some even say that dread Walach has returned, and that he is gathering his forces to wage war upon the lands of men that tried to destroy him.
They are the most fearsome knights in all of the Old World. Their training and discipline in life is married with the unnatural speed and strength of Undeath. The Blood Knights are nigh indestructible, and their bloodthirst makes them ferocious and implacable. Such is their honour that they will refuse no challenge, and will fight at the forefront of an army. It is said that even the fabled Grail Knights of Bretonnia cannot match the Blood Knights on the field of battle.
As well as these, there are spiffy new models for grave Guard, Skeletons, Bat Swarms etc.
Is modelling too far gone to include some of these units? The Varghulf in particular is awesome.
Bah! We'll see about that when King Leon finally unites whole Bretonnia by purging Mousillion! Then we can focus at other matters at hand... like bloodsuckers.... :knight:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranaich
Lady of the Lake FTW! :2thumbsup:
I don't THINK it's possible, but Bwian/Alletun has surprised me plenty of times already.Quote:
Is modelling too far gone to include some of these units? The Varghulf in particular is awesome.
Ghouls:
I don’t know enough about modelling to say if those are do able or not, but my bet goes to the “to much work to be worth it” option. Remember, Ghouls are cowardly creeping creatures; the upright human skeletons would not do them justice. If a own skeleton is made for skinks, there may be light at the end of the tunnel. But I don’t think so.
Corpse Chart:
This will never see the total war battlefield.
Bwian is constructing a model for chariots to be allowed in game; however, magic corpse collectors who raise slain soldiers are never going to happen. Vampire counts will get a Black Coach at best.
Varghulf:
Impossible, I say. Only humanoid and elephanthonid creatures are possible to make.
Cairn Wraiths: I wuld really hope for this one? I mean, witch vampire generals would NOT have a unit of scythe wielding black reapers at the tip of their tech tree to aspire to?
One note: Make them wear black robes, and add a head variation of one wearing hood.
Blood Knights:
One of the easiest to include, as Similar steeds and armour will still be used for mounted vampire lords. It would have to be really fun to have in game. Blood Knights, do – able and awesome.
I figured the Corpse Cart would be out, I just wanted to post a picture of it. :beam:
I can see the Ghouls using a Skaven/Skink skeleton. Varghulf could possibly use a large humanoid skeleton like the Troll one, but yeah it's probably out there too.
Since I'm writing the unit cards I've had a discussion with Bwian about this... It was almost a year ago. But Ghoul unit cards were requested, and have been written, so I'm pretty sure they'll be included. If nothing wonky happened along the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Norseman
Blood Dragons are in just because Bwian thinks they're cool. It does require some creative thinking, since Blood Dragons are unaffiliated slayers of anything they deem a worthy opponent. Also champion units, rather than squads. But that said, they're still in the mod.
Wraiths are also planned to go in it. There was some transparency issue that still needs solving.
Dire wolves is one of those Bwian wants to add, but wasn't sure could.
All the funky ones were not included because it was too much work vs the pay off.
I hope I haven't said too much now.
I think we should have skeletons archers, crossbowmen and javaliners because there are many bodies scattered throughout Sylvania with different weaponry.
I give reasons:
Bow: any army units with a projectile has archers (Bretonnia, Empire, Greenskins, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Elves Forest). It is a common weapon but that requires a minimum training to learn to use it.
Crossbow: easier to use than a bow, any farmer with a minimum training could use the crossbow (as the Empire currently uses the crossbow and armies fallen ancient pre-gunpowder used crossbows (or arches), it would be logical to put skeletons crossbowmen) .
Javelin: the ancient tribes that lived in the Empire and Bretonnia surely lead javelins.
The skeletons archebusiers is too strong for the vampire counts (mixing power harquebus with the fear of unity think it is too powerful), I think it is not a good idea.
Not to mention the fact that the skeletons would break becuase of the recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCid
Hehe, like that suicide squad in "Life of Brian"..... :laugh4:
I agree with this, but I'm not sure if Bwian is gonna make custom units, or if he's following the armybooks through and through.Quote:
I think we should have skeletons archers, crossbowmen and javaliners because there are many bodies scattered throughout Sylvania with different weaponry.
I oppose to the idea of skeleton archers, crossbows or whatever. Vampire counts are winning through numbers, fear and a few uber-units, not by firing volleys at them.
Javelins might do maybe, but make sure to turn the skirmish mode off, Their only charge reaction is hold in warhammer.
If you want undead archers, play tomb kings.
Fireblade
and i will oppose to this.vampire counts should't have any missile troops!!!archebusiers?????????????????why don't we give them even steam tanks???or snipers??????????no no,it's not very common to them,the only ranged attack the army has is the growl of the bannsee,and the one that i should think appropriate for use would be to include the ghouls to throw rocks before charge!!!:egypt:
I think the dire wolves should be able to go in cause in RTW they had those dog and pig packs for some teams so if able you could use skeleton from them.:couch:Quote:
Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
Storm chaos in the army of silvania has skeletons with crossbows, impacting 6 and injuring 6 but forcefully 4. If the army is silvania you could add these. Do not going to put more troop types of men at arms of Bretonnia?, The counts vampire we have the right to take it more types of skeletons.
Skeletons with harquebus?, The setback would not be a problem, now remain with the warpstone said that the new book army. Just that I do not get much unbalanced because the game.
Well, I don't expect to see every storm of chaos list present in the mod.
About the men at arms of bretonnia, I'm not sure if that has been decided already (Just the troops from the army books please :yes: )
Vampire counts are not supposed to have archers, it is not the vampire way, so to speak.
Fireblade
No he's right they are still from some vc army list they're wights not grave guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silaris
In rome total war there were some traits and retinue members that increased the chance that dead soldiers would be healed and ready for battle and some the casualties are still healed in Medieval 2 so you could mod those into the game so that almost all of the killed soldiers come back to emulate nocromancy.
Slanted that's the best suggestion ive seen on this page, but then again it's also the only one so i guess it's also, the worst suggestion i've seen on this page, and the shortest and the longest and blah blah blah blah blah.
I've just found this mod page and has been reading through this thread. What i was thinking about is how you are going to set the upkeep for the "Mercenary" Zombies and skeletons aswell as the retraining. In my opinion the upkeep should be considered to be 0 or very low. And then balancing that out by setting a very high upkeep on the Elite units as some people mentioned before.
In M2TW you can't retrain merc units so that would need to be solved or just let the player recruit new ones instead as zombies can't get experience in the same way as units that aren't controlled by someone elses mind. But it would be a bit wierd if you couldn't replenish the units numbers as they are just cannon fodder and low upkeep, as a commander i would always want them at full numbers.
I was also thinking about the routing a bit. I think it would be pretty cool if the zombie/skeletons(Mindless units) weren't able to flee as long as the commander is alive. Concernings the other units in the faction they shouldn't be able to rout either as undead and vampires can't actually feel fear.
I dont really know what's possible to do with the game engine.
putting my two cents in here....
having played many a battle against the undead it goes without saying that the general being alive bonus to the troops should be enormous, i.e. they wont flee but will fight to the death. therefore any body controlling the undead has to be careful as to whether they ever commit their general (who should be incredibly powerful), i think this method could incorporate the fear factor as the other side gets gradually worn down by always having to kill the opposition because they wont flee.
also, i have only flicked through this thread, but i dont think anybody mentioned black coachs which are the undeads mighty (pain in the arse) chariots.