Out of character thread XIX

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Don't feel too bad about moving on without him. I really see no possible way for him to survive, so an autoresolve death isn't really any worse. I guess this one will officially make the Arnold Chancellorship the most lethal period in KOTR history, including the Cataclsym.

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I'm tempted to do an auto resolve as there is no way out of that assault.

Then at least Ramses can get onto his tonight.

It does seem as if the Dread Lord has lead to some unexpected results...although I can't say I'm responsible for any of them when I think about it.

Pretty brutal really...and I kind of like it, as it is realistic.

I was really concerned at the beginning that everyone would meta game like AD&D or something. Now it feels a little too dangerous...

It still feels really quiet though....

It's always possible to short circuit the AI in a siege, it just requires some unseemly manipulation. I haven't actually tried this battle, but if you don't want to be abusive toward the AI I'd recommend opening the gates and letting them try to come in while sending the general around to flank.

...but like I said, I haven't tried it. :laugh4: :skull:

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

It's always possible to short circuit the AI in a siege, it just requires some unseemly manipulation. I haven't actually tried this battle, but if you don't want to be abusive toward the AI I'd recommend opening the gates and letting them try to come in while sending the general around to flank.

...but like I said, I haven't tried it. :laugh4: :skull:

:egypt:

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No that's certainly not on the cards. vpmd will have to find another avatar.

Ramses can you fight tonight?

No football today, I can fight more or less anytime.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

No football today, I can fight more or less anytime.

:egypt:

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Right then get your chin strap and shoulder pads on, the saves coming your way very soon.

Cheers
AG

I was able to hold the city (Genoa) because of the AI's problem with huge walls. Bascially I just let the smallest company of town militia sally out and then rout to block the gates, and then all of the French infantry lined up to climb the siege tower. Most of the first unit (Sergeant Spearmen in my case) made it onto the walls to fight, and I had to destroy them at the cost of almost all my militia spearmen, but after that a tiny trickle of crossbowmen came up and my town militia fought them for the rest of the time limit. Hans von Bavaria exhausted his guardsmen charging into the static French infantry formation, doing them considerable harm. Unfortunately I had only about 1 company of spear militia and one and a half of town militia remaining at the end while they had all their cavalry and around half their foot, so it wouldn't work again, but it was a victory.

I suffered very, very bad lag during the last part of this siege. I suspect that's got something to do either with the orders the AI is trying to issue or the usual building bug. It took about an hour to plod through the last third of the hourglass while I sat there looking at jerky raindrops. Not fun.

:egypt:

Ok then vpmd.

Sorry there fella but I'm going to take the save...auto resolve and then say something nice about you in the Diet thread. :shame:

Hi Ramses,

I fought it as well and got about the same result.

I didn't save it though.

I'm going through with the decision anyway. Get ready in 10 minutes.

Oh, by the way ransom was accepted. 5400 florins or so. Don't say I never gave you anything. :laugh4:

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

Oh, by the way ransom was accepted. 5400 florins or so. Don't say I never gave you anything. :laugh4:

:egypt:

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Love your work Ramses!!! That's great news.

-edit-

Elite Ferret you're up now fella. It will be a hell of a defense if you can pull it off.

Bump.

Elite Ferret...you need to fight this battle mate. Auto resolve will see Franconia drop the ball dramatically and you don't want that to happen I assume.

:sweatdrop:

EF's internet has been a bit off and on lately, so it might take him a bit to be able to fight the battle. Hopefully not too long...:sweatdrop:

I haven't checked the save, but presumably Dutch_guy would be a possible alternative general to fight the battle - Tancred is in Magdeburg too?If so, it might be wise to PM him too.

Both are there.

I will PM DG also.

-edit-

Dutch_guy has been PM'd also.

well the battle is fought but I can't seem to upload the save. It is in RAR form and has the right name but whenever I try to upload it it says underneath 'please choose an exisitng file to upload' instead of the usual 'upload successful'.

Use mizus then.

.Org uploader is working again.

This is pretty funny now.

EF has the save, the loader is working, but his internet is probably down now.

I'd really like to get 1358 up tonight.

EF if your out there get back to me fella!!

The Org uploader seems to be not working again - best to use the mizus one until it is. I arranged with EF for him to e-mail me the save. Here it is:

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/kotr1358.rar

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Originally Posted by econ21

The Org uploader seems to be not working again - best to use the mizus one until it is. I arranged with EF for him to e-mail me the save. Here it is:

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/kotr1358.rar

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Love your work Econ!

I'll be on it tonight around 19:30 GMT +1

yeah sorry, I should have said that Econ had the save before I left but I was in a rush, busy day yesterday.

1356 is now finished.

Moving on to 1358.

I will be on reserve duty from Sunday, February 3rd to Thursday, February 7th due to a short vacation. I will have internet access during that time and will be on the forums, but I will not be able to fight battles. I have updated the Roster to show this.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I will be on reserve duty from Sunday, February 3rd to Thursday, February 7th due to a short vacation. I will have internet access during that time and will be on the forums, but I will not be able to fight battles. I have updated the Roster to show this.

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:wall:

Stuperman you better be around buddy. :beam:

I am open to suggestions on how to deal with the all-cav French stack besieging Dijon...

Bog them down with spearmen and then hit them with heavy infantry. Whatever you do don't let them withdraw after they've engaged. Also your general can often draw a large crowd of them into chasing him around aimlessly while the rest of your army chews up whatever isn't following you.

If you don't have enough spearmen, use lines of archers or crossbowmen stretched as wide as possible with skirmish on. Turn off fire at will and don't let them shoot as the cavalry approach, because while they're in the firing animation they won't retreat. When the charge hits they'll skirmish away, as best they can, blunting the charge and allowing your infantry to close in. As before do not let them withdraw for a second charge, even if it means clicking your men to walk through them when they attempt to withdraw.

Once you get past the charge you should be okay.

The battle would be easier (IMHO) if you could have Ruppel sally out of Dijon, because you have the walls to fall back into and the typical passive AI siege behavior to manipulate, just make sure you don't enter the field directly behind them or get caught with men trying to rout to town square through the middle of their formation.

If Ruppel sallies don't exit the battle before it's over unless his men are all back inside.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

:wall:

Stuperman you better be around buddy. :beam:

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I doubt it will be much of a problem. From past indications, the 1358 turn will take until Friday to complete. That will then give us the usual 3 days of Diet followed by 1 day of voting. That takes us through next Tuesday before 1360 starts. I will be back home on Thursday evening which should be at the tail end of the 48 hour period should Lothar really be needed to fight a battle. Even that I think is doubtful, though, because his army is not capable of facing down a triple gold stack as it is. Unless reinforcements materialize from nowhere or Milan is assaulted in 1360 (which I think is very unlikely since it's not currently beseiged) I doubt Lothar will even have a battle to fight until 1362 at the earliest, by which time I will have been home for a long time.

Note that if you attack the French stack, make sure you don't get Ruppel as reinforcements. Otherwise losing means we lose Dijon as well.

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

I am open to suggestions on how to deal with the all-cav French stack besieging Dijon...

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Fighting them in open battle with the SHA will be a challenge. IIRC, the formation lacks heavy cavalry or decent spears in any number. You may pull it off with some finesse, but it will be interesting to say the least.

If you set up the battle so that Ruppel sallies and SHA reinforces, the passive sally AI will let the SHA's many crossbows go to town. I think the AI will only send a few lancer regiments at you at a time, so you should be able to shoot them down and drive off the survivors. At least, that's what seemed to happen when I relieved Aleppo (although I was not against an all cav army):

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=176

Normally, exploiting the AI would be frowned upon but given the composition of the AI stack and how long FH has been entombed in Dijon, I don't think anyone would shout too loudly if you set it up as a sally.

Go ahead and exploit the passive AI if you can. That stack was originally designed to be a 'companion' stack to a normal army to specifically prevent FH from defeating an army that I did not want him to defeat, but that I feared he would because of his skill with cavalry. I did a similar thing with an all-cavalry army in Outremer that OverKnight took apart over the course of a couple battles. It is an unrealistic force that has outlived its original purpose, is absurd in the current situation, and was never generated by the AI to begin with. It was created as an 'exploit' to defeat the players, so I see no problems with the players using their own exploit to defeat it.

Yeah, I remember that, it was my valiant "keep running until I find a hill, fight a bit, and then keep running until I find another hill" strategy. :2thumbsup:

Good job on the French econ21. I can't wait to see the battle report on that one. Never underestimate a scorned husband with a chip on his shoulder. :laugh4:

just so we all know, me and ramses nominated lothar steffen as best kotr character

Bloody hell Econ, you took the bull by the horns there. :yes:

That move took me completely by surprise.

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Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921

just so we all know, me and ramses nominated lothar steffen as best kotr character

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I agree. TC's done a hell of a job with him. To me he's been a catalyst for many things both dubious and honourable. His reasoning has been complex and believable.

I personally like his stance towards supporting the two separate rebellions in Swabia. A few posts in the Diet have been great to re-read.

I also liked the fight in the Tavern.

Thanks for all those nominations at the HoF :bow:

I should hopefully be getting my laptop back today if all goes well (meaning the delivery person doesn't ring the bell and disappear because no-one answers but instead drops it off at the porter) so should have it all up and running by tomorow as I have a few meetings tonight.

What is the HoF?

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

What is the HoF?

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http://media.canada.com/8c8b3290-2b0...70504_hoff.jpg

Ah, geez TC I think you just tanked your shot at "Most Helpful Member".

AG, check out the HoF or Hall of Fame announcement at the top of the Forum. Follow it to the thread, it should explain everything.

Edit: Think of it as the Oscars for the Org.

I think I was just part of a whole lot of people laughing at their computers. :beam:

Well done TC. LOL!!

Thanks TC for the nominations by the way.

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

Ah, geez TC I think you just tanked your shot at "Most Helpful Member".

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Well, not for the current ones as those are for 2007 (01.01.2007-31.12.2007) only. Maybe for the 2008 ones tho :grin:

The battle report for the Staufen fight is up.

Nice report Econ! I'm starting to like this Welf fellow and he's a fine general already.

Firstly because I would hate to give up Bruges, and also because I hate to leave all of Swabia as econs and tristans responsibility (not that i dont trust them with it, it just seems unfair), would it be possible to relieve Bruges with whatever units I have in Antwerp within in the next 48 hours? Let me know.

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Originally Posted by deguerra

...would it be possible to relieve Bruges with whatever units I have in Antwerp within in the next 48 hours? Let me know.

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Are you in a position to fight the battle? If so, I don't think there would be a problem with your picking up the save.

I'm back.

I nominated AG in HoF and would probably mention a few others (Probably some rebels from the Civil War I have in mind) and some people already are nominated two times. Anyway; I certianly think AG deserves the nomination, Duke Arnold is a great character. (As I said in the HoF thread, his biography in the GuildWiki explains alot.) Good luck to all other nominees.

Thanks Warluster. I appreciate that.

I have to have a think about everyone over the last year and get my own nomination up.

That's nearly impossible to do...but I have to try.

I'm trying to find the GuildWiki link with no success. Can you link me up?

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Thanks Warluster. I appreciate that.

I have to have a think about everyone over the last year and get my own nomination up.

That's nearly impossible to do...but I have to try.

I'm trying to find the GuildWiki link with no success. Can you link me up?

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AG on the top of the forum page navigate to site tools, drop down wiki, main page and then click contributions and will see the KoTR.

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Originally Posted by Northnovas

AG on the top of the forum page navigate to site tools, drop down wiki, main page and then click contributions and will see the KoTR.

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LMAO!!

I read the first set of characters and then I see;

Arnold

As if Arnold needs a #$%*@!ing biography!

Played by AussieGiant.


Who wrote that? :2thumbsup:

Tamur, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Tamur, IIRC.

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I must send him a note of thanks.

It seems the pressures of office have caused Arnold to crack (more so at least) and he is now assigning nicknames to everyone like President Bush.

I'm just glad this madness only began at the end of the term. :laugh4:

So does being Mr. Perfect's best friend get me any fringe benefits? Like dates with girls he passes up? *

*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If so, don't tell my wife. :clown:

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

It seems the pressures of office have caused Arnold to crack (more so at least) and he is now assigning nicknames to everyone like President Bush.

I'm just glad this madness only began at the end of the term. :laugh4:

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I'm starting to crack...can you tell :dizzy2:

Zim, you get what ever you want and the best friend. shhhhhh

I've been playing Broken Crescent lately, and I think it's worth considering for the inevitable successor to KotR. I know moving to a mod lessens the quantity of players and potentially makes for other problems, but BC is excellent, and there's great potential for taking on a difficult cause, for example in my first campaign the Kingdom of Jerusalem was wiped out utterly in short order. A rumor also has it that if Mecca and Medina are captured by non-muslims that a jihad is auto-declared or some such. No idea if that's true, but it sounds like fun.

:egypt:

We could all be stereotypical ignorant white men! NICE!

A mod would also mean I couldn't join. The pro's just keep piling on.

I thought TinCow had some rules laid out for the successor, though.

Speaking of Mods, I'd love to play a KOTR-style game in Europa Barbarorum or Deus Lo Vault. Both mods focus on increased roleplaying traits while altering the campaign mechanics to create a slower, more methodical experience. Those are the two major issues with KOTOR, so I think they'd both be great.

I think econ21 and I both agree that a mod is the best way to go for the next game, simply because they offer a much greater deal of difficulty and many have interesting features that would aid roleplaying and such. WOTS was played with a mod (RTR) and it benefitted greatly from it. The mod I prefer so far is Stainless Steel, but I haven't tried Broken Crescent yet. Regardless, it should be a group decision when the time comes.

FYI one of the benefits of BC is that it's compatible across vanilla 1.3 and Kingdoms. The last time I checked the latest version of SS required Kingdoms, though that was some time ago.

:egypt:

Yes, SS 5.1 requires Kingdoms, but SS 4.1 is for regular M2TW and is still a vast improvement over vanilla. The trait and title system in particular is incredible. I've been playing SS 4.1 with an AI mod on top of it and it is like playing a different game.

I think I'd have to vote for BC if we're going to play a mod, but I imaginethat deision is far in the future anyway.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I think econ21 and I both agree that a mod is the best way to go for the next game, simply because they offer a much greater deal of difficulty and many have interesting features that would aid roleplaying and such. WOTS was played with a mod (RTR) and it benefitted greatly from it. The mod I prefer so far is Stainless Steel, but I haven't tried Broken Crescent yet. Regardless, it should be a group decision when the time comes.

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Not to disparage BC, but I can't imagine playing M2:TW without Europe.

I felt much the same, but don't knock it until you've tried it. The variety of forces and territories is actually substantially greater. Expansion across religious boundries is naturally capped by the need to convert a populace, slowly, before local fortresses can become useful for training troops. I question some of their balancing decisions, but that might be because I still don't have the full picture as I've only really contacted the far easten end of things.

Although it's still the MTW2 AI, I've noticed a lot less outright stupidity. Cities at the front have a garrison, and the AI will recruit and use spies and assassins in some quantity.

I haven't tried SS, for obvious reasons. LTC was good, for what it did, but they were the same old units that we all know just how to use to whip the AI for heroic victory after heroic victory. I gave PDR a brief try awhile ago, but experienced a repeated crashing bug and uninstalled it and now it's in Kingdoms only versions too, I think. As far as I could tell PDR was the same old units as well, but I didn't get far with it.

DLV is also the same units as far as I know, but I haven't installed it. I'm up for anything personally, but BC is definitely the most complete mod I've played so far, and it hasn't crashed a single time yet. That scores high on my enjoyment meter for stability alone.

:egypt:

I agree with Ramses about BC's feeling complete despite the fact that they're planning on adding a ton more features and maybe a few factions. The fact their boards (on that other TW site :no: *) are extremely active (particularly in comparison to those for other MTW2 mods) attest to the mod's quality. Ramses is also right about unit variety being more diverse than any of the other mods I've played (although it's been a while since I've tried Stainless Steel, so they might have changed things up more).

I guess I might be a bit unusual in actually having started to find a change in scenery away from Europe as refreshing after 3 TW games and endless mods I've played. :sweatdrop:

Anyway, I'm sure everyone will agree on something by the time this really comes up. We might even have a few more mods to choose from. :yes:


*:clown:

ok gents...my New York Football Giants just did the impossible and I'm still in shock.....OMG we have won the Superbowl against a team that is arguably the best ever.

So with that being said 1358 will end and we are up for another Diet session.

It will be up in about 30 minutes from now.

-edit-

Ramses your save 1358-12 is before the battle not afterwards. Can you please check and repost the save?

Yer pm box is full AG, so I'll reply here:

I'm on it now, but are you sure it isn't Stenkil attacking the captain led stack that was south of the ambush spot? He has to do that before he can advance, and I was careful to save it before that attack so you could auto-calc or retreat as you felt appropriate.

:egypt:

I see what you mean now. When I withdrew from the battle, Fritz didn't move on the strategy map, so he is being called as reinforcements for captain Eusebius. I don't have much experience with ambushes so I guess that's the way it's supposed to work? I pulled up the menu to save it so fast I didn't notice.

The question is, is it appropriate for me to take a second shot at Stenkil? I might be able to do a little more damage to him, but ultimately I still don't think I can take on his heavy cavalry and infantry with the men I have so I'll probably withdraw again.

This is getting humiliating for Fritz. :laugh4:

Anyway, give me a ruling and if I can fight Stenkil again I'll take a run at him (Probably in around 3 hours when the lil one naps would be the earliest chance).

:egypt:

I'll clean my in box Ramses.

But otherwise have another go at him. Whittle him down a bit.

I'd like to have 1360 up tonight for the Diet start.

I'm going to have to make a trip to the doctor (Nothing serious), so it would be tonight before I could have another go at him. Just withdraw and move on, I'm much more interested in getting to the Diet session and not holding things up. Stenkil has no chance of taking Arhus with that army anyway.

:egypt:

Where do you want me to move you to?

Hope the doctor thing is very minor.

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Where do you want me to move you to?

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When Ramses said "withdraw and move on", I think he just meant withdraw from the battle so that the game can move on to 1340. (As I understand it, we are in the defensive battles stage so we can't move per se.)

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Hope the doctor thing is very minor.

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Seconded. ~:grouphug:

Move me? Just hit withdraw from the battle screen and the game'll take care of it. No reason to treat it differently from any other withdrawal; it wouldn't really be fair to give me another chance to abuse that army's infantry anyway. When the next year starts I'll see where I am and go from there.

The doc thing is rather absurd, I got pink eye from my kidlet, which acted like some kind of gateway infection or something, because I then got strep and an ear infection. The antibiotics are knocking it out fine, but I still can't hear out of my right ear. The doc says I'll probably need steroids, but she wants to take a look at it first to make sure it didn't burst or something. Had a lot of ear infections as a kid, so my ears are already a little funny.

edit: Just to be completely, 100% clear, going to the doctor is just eating up my free time today, nothing to do with my larger availability. Unless the AI sneak attacks from my right I should be okay. ;)

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by econ21

... so that the game can move on to 1340.

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Econ, how come when you cite a date from ingame you're always 20 years late ?

I've noticed that you do that quite often... Nostalgia ? :yes:

Sorry not thinking straight.

I think I'm still drink from last nights "blow out"!!

30 minute bell!!

I got a wedding request for the Becker daughter. Not bad actually. 2 Chiv high loyalty and piety.

Do I take that...econ?

-edit-

I'm going to say no because we have two reserve duty avatars in Austria already.

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Econ, how come when you cite a date from ingame you're always 20 years late ?

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Senility. It's hard to keep up with you young 'uns. :embarassed: Being 20 years out of date OOC is not so much of a problem, it's when I start mixing up provinces in character, and calling Bavarians "Austrians", Maximillan "Manfred", Friedrich "Fredericus" etc that I risk getting into real trouble. :oops:

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

I'm going to say no because we have two reserve duty avatars in Austria already.

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Good call. :bow:

Great job on the Chancellorship, BTW. :2thumbsup: :balloon2:

Might be a smart idea for you young'uns to check on the stories thread.

Remember, no meta-gaming.

To answer your question in the Diet thread Ramses, new Diet threads are only started after 20 pages. We're only up to 13, by my count, so speechify away.

Thanks for the congrats Econ. It was quite an experience.

And as I suspected...the general momentum has waned a lot in my opinion.

The Diet is like a morgue. Arnold's going to wait and see for the moment, but it is tempting to run again and see what can happen when I'm not trying to juggle disease and no money.

My computer is almost dead. So I'm going to be unavailable for a few days, since my internet is going to be unavailable too. Since I don't have an avatar right now it's okay, but I thought I'd better tell you guys, in case an available avatar came up.

I'll be back ASAP.