I don't like to be painted as maffia, I can swear to all that is camel that I'm not.
Why does everyone believe Sasaki's word to be true? Unless he is a proven detective and has investigated everyone, his guess is as good as most, right?
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I don't like to be painted as maffia, I can swear to all that is camel that I'm not.
Why does everyone believe Sasaki's word to be true? Unless he is a proven detective and has investigated everyone, his guess is as good as most, right?
Watching!?! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
That is your defense? That you don't investigate, but only watch!?!
That one truly made my morning... Thank you... :bow:
Yakuza need to kill CarelliQuote:
What kind of argument or logic is this?
Yakuza have killed.unsound logic and Red Herring.
Yet have not killed mafia.
Therefore yakuza can't investigate.
Yakuza need to find Carelli first
Yakuza investigate people to see if they are Carelli
If Yakuza finds Carelli, Yakuza kills Carelli
If Yakuza does not do this, Carelli eventually kills Yakuza
If Yakuza kills Carelli, kills should go down
If kills do not go down, then Yakuza has probably not killed Carelli
If Yakuza is not killing Carelli, then Yakuza is probably not finding Carelli
Therefore, Yakuza is not investigating.
Why?
My guess is that the only Yakuza that could investigate is Taketsi and that is Sigurd. Sigurd is covering for his Yakuza mate who I have guessed is Pevergreen. Now that Pevergreen is dead, we'll see if there are anymore Yakuza style kills.
This conveniently ignores the fact that 00jebus was mafia and was lynched. Therefore we already have 4 kills with only 3 surviving killers. This means that some of the mafia can either kill more than once per night, or there are more killers than the initial role post indicates. If that is true in one case, there's no reason it couldn't be true in another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
I know you are new to mafia and I will not hold this against you. But let me throw in an advice: Read more mafia threads... Basing your argumentation on Netherworld only will only make you look like a fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Now that is better.Quote:
Yakuza need to kill Carelli
Yakuza need to find Carelli first
Yakuza investigate people to see if they are Carelli
If Yakuza finds Carelli, Yakuza kills Carelli
If Yakuza does not do this, Carelli eventually kills Yakuza
If Yakuza kills Carelli, kills should go down
If kills do not go down, then Yakuza has probably not killed Carelli
If Yakuza is not killing Carelli, then Yakuza is probably not finding Carelli
Therefore, Yakuza is not investigating.
But there is still getting the nukes out of town isn't there?
Maybe you kill to narrow down the suspects and perhaps get lucky getting the last mafia and at the same time get rid of the townies to get the nukes out. That would be the smart thing to do if I were Taketsi.
Yeah... convinently there will be only 3 kills in the following night because you decide to do an investigation that night.Quote:
My guess is that the only Yakuza that could investigate is Taketsi and that is Sigurd. Sigurd is covering for his Yakuza mate who I have guessed is Pevergreen. Now that Pevergreen is dead, we'll see if there are anymore Yakuza style kills.
Why were you out of bed night 3?
You're doing a valiant job Sigurd, but PK is right that your "watching" excuse is laughable. Your 'results' included that pevergreen was "innocent" and PK was "probably innocent." If you had some kind of lesser "watching" ability, as you claim, why were you getting full investigation results?
The real question is why you're still fighting this so hard. Are you just trying to confuse the town, or are you actively trying to protect someone?
So now your claiming a secret watching role? And just how different is "watching" from "investigating" anyways? Does forgetting to post your night action PM's before your lynched mean you were "watching"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
But with multiple killers out there, and the chance that yakuza will be killed by a Carelli by chance, it is in the yakuza's interest to take out a Carelli when he finds one. Once the Carelli's are gone, then the yakuza could rest easy knowing he won't be knocked off by accident by a Carelli who thinks the yakuza is just a townie.Quote:
Now that is better.
But there is still getting the nukes out of town isn't there?
Maybe you kill to narrow down the suspects and perhaps get lucky getting the last mafia and at the same time get rid of the townies to get the nukes out. That would be the smart thing to do if I were Taketsi.
I wasn't. I feel we are treading well covered ground now. Do you have any new observations or will you insist on asking me the same questions over and over? :smash:Quote:
Why were you out of bed night 3?
Im really lost in this game. I havent been doing something because I got lost here.
Im going to vote:Omanes, its not his style to lurk heavily.
This in not logical to me. It would be better for Taketsi to kill every night instead of first investigate and then kill. Killing every night covers more ground than investigating two and then kill one if he happens to find a mafia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Same back at you... you insists on pulling out the fact that only the Detective ,Manfredo, Juliette and Taketsi can investigate, putting your mind in a box where the only roles are those defined in the opening post, then in some posts you turn around completely and hints to more than one yakuza or mafia. And I have already explained sufficiently why I did not bother getting the three watch reports out of my inbox to post them here.Quote:
I wasn't. I feel we are treading well covered ground now. Do you have any new observations or will you insist on asking me the same questions over and over? :smash:
You are overly defensive for a mere townie. Wasn't one of the strategies of the town to lynch desperately defensive players? :whip:
I said it before, I'll say it again: kill the lurkers.:yes:
:returns to his coffin:
But it is exactly what you did. You investigated until you killed CR. (I'm assuming that was you since it was done yakuza style.) You get 2 investigations a night but you only showed 3 results. I wonder what the 4th said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
The last night report mentions a rather noobish mafioso killing Pevergreen. So I think it is safe to assume there are roles that aren't in the 1st post. But I am not convinced there are investigative roles that are not in the first post. Maybe there are. But I do believe you have investigative powers. And my guess is that you are Taketsi. I have always allowed the possibility that there might be other secret investigative roles out there but I find it unlikely.Quote:
Same back at you... you insists on pulling out the fact that only the Detective ,Manfredo, Juliette and Taketsi can investigate, putting your mind in a box where the only roles are those defined in the opening post, then in some posts you turn around completely and hints to more than one yakuza or mafia.
Actually you haven't. Your claim of a bad connection is mighty convenient. My guess is you didn't want to post them because it would cause questions. It is to your advantage to be vague so as to confuse us further.Quote:
And I have already explained sufficiently why I did not bother getting the three watch reports out of my inbox to post them here.
No, I just believe in calling bullcrap when I see it. I have answered you point for point but your not satisfied. Your being overly aggresive for being a harmless pro-town role that has the secret power of "watching".Quote:
You are overly defensive for a mere townie. Wasn't one of the strategies of the town to lynch desperately defensive players? :whip:
You assume someone got one of the killers last night; or more specifically Manfredo.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
This is not by any means confirmed. There were 4 kills and that is still feasable without 00jebus and keeping within the defined roles box.
It didn't say innocent per say, It is my interpretation of the alignment evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Well, I am fighting PK on the simple fact that he claims that my result on him is a lie. I can't stand being called a liar and will fight this to the end. If you bother to read some of the other games I played, you might notice a different tactic when I actually lie.
PK didn't need to accuse me of this in the first place. If he had let it slide I would have thought naught of my results and probably hounded Husar instead. He has basically admitted that I got him right.
Not true. We are sure that we lynched a second mafioso. Yourself. So, there are 3 roles from the box left that kill. Yet 4 kills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
Ah how convenient. I see now. "Watching" allows you to interpret the alignment while "investigating" tells you the alignment. *sarcasm*Quote:
It didn't say innocent per say, It is my interpretation of the alignment evidence.
Your the one that lied. Right before you were lynched, you posted my name in a way that infers I have a "power-town" role. Which basically turned me into "mafia-bait". Since it seemed that few people saw my name, I was content to let it go. But then people tried to lynch Husar on the basis of your post. I believed Husar had a "power-town" role so I tried to save him. Since your post was wrong about me, I thought it could be wrong about him as well. (your post insinuated that Husar was guilty) But protecting Husar in that way required me to admit I was the third name on your list.Quote:
Well, I am fighting PK on the simple fact that he claims that my result on him is a lie. I can't stand being called a liar and will fight this to the end. If you bother to read some of the other games I played, you might notice a different tactic when I actually lie. PK didn't need to accuse me of this in the first place. If he had let it slide I would have thought naught of my results and probably hounded Husar instead. He has basically admitted that I got him right.
From reading TC's post with Husar's pm's, it seems Husar was the prostitute. So it seems my instincts to protect him were right. But doing so put me in your crosshairs. But I consider it worth it. :yes:
So, fight on to the end as you wish my dear Taketsi. I am content that I did the right thing. :2thumbsup:
PK, Sigurd's case against you is actually quite legitimate. There have been numerous 'watch' roles in mafia games before, whereupon its up to the player to determine what said result actually means. And surely if you read Netherworld thoroughly, you would know that secret roles are more than acceptable in any mafia game. Heck, most of my roles were secret, numerically at least.
I still say his claim of having a "watch" role is very convenient. Funny how there was no mention of this when he was about to be lynched. When he was still alive, he could have posted PM's to prove his case. But he didn't. So now he is making crap up to throw the town off.Quote:
Originally Posted by makaikhaan
He was quite content to have his "investigation" results cause Husar to be lynched. He didn't change his tune until it seemed that attempt would fail.
Sigurd's actions outed a town-power role and everyone should keep that in mind when ever he speaks.
And yet there's still the issue of how he could have been a killer. 00jebus was investigated by Ichigo and was clear cut guilty. For Sigurd to be a killer as well would imply that there were 6 'killer' roles which, given the relatively light defenses given to the town, seems rather incredible.
Or how about we lynch Privateerkev, then stop accusing everybody and their mother of being Taketsi and try to find some of the other killers? Note that step one is optional.
I'm guessing there is actually 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by makaikhaan
We know there is a Carelli, yakuza, Manfredo, and SK around.
We know about 00jebus and Sigurd. And now there seems to be a "nooby" mafia.
00Jebus and Sigurd are dead. Maybe the latest round of lynchings and killings got Manfredo and maybe another mafia. It is my guess (and hope) that Haudagen is Manfredo and Pever is Sigurd's yakuza henchman.
Hopefully we can lynch the SK this round.
That might leave us with only a couple mafia left if we're lucky. The Carelli and the noob.
Of course this is all gambling that Andres is very cruel to his players but it is possible. :clown:
It's definitely possible that there are secret roles. The problem is that Sigurd has been inconsistent in his statements. Right at the very beginning, before he was even dead, he claimed to have a role that was similar to the "hobo."Quote:
Originally Posted by makaikhaan
I went to look this up, since it was apparently a reference to a role in a different game that I wasn't involved in. I found the most references in "Gotta have more Mafia" which was run by Sasaki. I read the last couple pages, when the Hobo was revealed, but it wasn't entirely clear to me what the role did. So, I asked Sasaki himself. He created the role, so he knows better than anyone:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
So, we have Sigurd claiming a secret role which is similar to the "Hobo." Yet the write-ups indicate absolutely nothing which make it similar to the previous Hobo role. There has been only one role blocker, the prostitute, and there are no write-ups of any kind that indicate any kind of Hobo-ish activity. So, why is Sigurd claiming to have a role similar to the Hobo, when whatever role he has does not share any of the same attributes with the Hobo? It seems to me like a spur of the moment lie designed to try and save his neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
I'm not saying PK is completely innocent here, as Sigurd's results appear to me to be accurate. However, Sigurd is definitely scumtastic. His statements are inconsistent and don't jive with an honest reveal by a pro-town role.
We interrupt this broadcast for a quick vote tally update:
Omanes 3 (Curio, Privateerkev, Caius)
NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
Curio 1 (Mithrandir)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Mithrandir 1 (Elite Ferret)
Oh right... So I, Taketsi found CR to be one of the mafia and killed him with my yakuza ninja kicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by privateerkev
Oh.. noez someone tried to kick TinCow and kicked Husar to deathwhile Taketsi was previously lynched. Please... :inquisitive:
:laugh4: :laugh4: ... Yeah right... that will make a balanced game.Quote:
Originally Posted by privateerkev
For there to be that kind of mafia power there should be equal pro-town power.
Maybe my role doesn't seem too far fetched after all. :idea2:
And you guys are stumbling on my hobo clue. You need to think how we as players percieved the Hobo in that game.
I'm waking up late and have stopped going home for dinner, so don't really have much forum access except towards the end of the night phase. I apologise for lurking, but I really am unable to help it. Onward with the analysis anyhow:
Sigurd has a point against Privateerkev. I think of him as too active personally, but I have not seen anything in his posts which suggest mafia activity. The main issue is that he, along with Sassaki, is the only highly active/veteran player alive. I would like to hear more from him on the matter, but for now I'm willing to presume him innocent. I don't trust Sigurd either.
I also have to say something about Caius - "oh the irony". He votes me for lurking while being seriously inactive himself - I personally think he's just after an easy lynch targert. Is he a lazy townie or a cunning mafioso?
Sassaki Kojiro is another individual I don't really like. He was with the prostitute on night 1 - true, but there also just happened to be one kill on that night. It could be attributed to one killer choosing to investigate, or it could be considered a sign of guilt. He's also an intelligent player, so I wouldn't put any deception past him.
Mayankene I feel has slipped under the radar a little. I'm weary of her for some reason, yet I can't seem to pinpoint why - all her posts seem perfectly normal (for her).
Mithrandir is like Mayankene, he too has slipped under the attention of most. In this case though I do have a reason - he's too flippant, has too many hunches and appears to act naievly at time. This could be attributed to his newness, but it also could be atributed to mafia behaviour.
Since Sasaki, who I would prefer to lynch, will probably be at risk of death from the insane brother, I'm going to:
Vote: Mithrandir
Ive been following this thread.
Unvote:Omanes
Vote:Abstain
I've long argued that Pever was your yakuza buddy. I just can't figure out if you got him in the beginning of the game, or you got him later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
Perhaps you investigated for 3 turns. Then, you would have 6 results, not 3. But you can't exactly report all 6 or that would look suspicious. So you quickly write out 3 results. I believe there are 1-3 results that you haven't mentioned at all. And I know you made up the results on at least 1 of the ones you did mention. Probably 2 since I believe you made up Pever's to make him seem innocent. You left Husar's as is or tweaked it to make him seem guilty so we'd lynch him.
Seeing as 5 of the 7 possible roles are probably dead, I'd say we're doing ok. If these games were too easy, they wouldn't be fun. I admit my figure of 5 dead bad guys is optimistic but we'll see how the next night goes.Quote:
For there to be that kind of mafia power there should be equal pro-town power.
tally:
Omanes 2 (Curio, Privateerkev)
NorthNovas 2 (TinCow, Sasaki)
Mithrandir 2 (Elite Ferret, Omanes)
Sasaki 1 (Makanye)
Curio 1 (Mithrandir)
W&F 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Abstain: 1 (Caius)
you seem to have made a complete departure from logic in your attempt to argue yourself out of suspicion. "5 dead bad guys" is cloud cuckoo landQuote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
2 dead bad guys is about as optimistic as I can get to at the moment..
Re: your earlier analysis that because the grinning brother stuck his victims head by Ichigo's grave - why does that mean the victim was Manfredo? Ichigo only died the night before so there wasn't previously a grave to adorn with severed heads....
We've lynched 00Jebus and Sigurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Makanyane
I suspect that Haudagen is Manfredo and Pever is the other yakuza.
I am also hoping that we'll lynch the SK today.
Tomorrow night we'll see if the night report is missing people. If it is, it is possible that those roles are dead.
And that would mean 5 dead bad guys.
Optimistic? maybe. But since I have at least a 1/3 chance of dying tonight, I need to be optimistic...
Do you have any reason for that other than the fact that the first night after Juliette was buried - her brother put his victims head on her newly dug grave?Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Since you are voting for Omanes currently, that presumably means you think Omanes is the MiB. Please explain why you think this. So far the only evidence against Omanes that I have seen is his lack of activity. How could you possibly suspect he's the MiB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
In any case, I don't think the MiB is anti-town and it's inappropriate to refer to him as a SK. His kills have been: makaikhaan (N2) Glenn (N3) AntiWarmanCake (N4) Haudegen (N5). With the possible exception of makaikhaan, every single one of these people had significant questions raised about their innocence prior to their deaths. It seems to me like the MiB has been making a serious attempt to go after real mafia suspects, within the limits imposed on him by being forced to choose from those who voted for Ichigo. He does not appear to be killing randomly. I think it most likely that his role victory requirements are to keep Juliette alive, kill Manfredo, and survive himself. Eliminating the entire town does not seem to fit with the role. Despite the fact that I'm on the MiB's list of potential targets, I don't think he's truly anti-town.
In my mind, it is a major mistake to go after the MiB instead of the mafia. The town can probably still win with the MiB alive, which is not true of the mafia. At best, the MiB has now killed Manfredo and doesn't have to kill ever again. At worst, he will kill PK, Sasaki, and myself and then that will be that. Focusing on him over the mafia is a mistake.
I just stated a few posts back that my hunches were going nowhere so I'd rather trust random.orgQuote:
Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites
Mithrandir is like Mayankene, he too has slipped under the attention of most. In this case though I do have a reason - he's too flippant, has too many hunches and appears to act naievly at time. This could be attributed to his newness, but it also could be atributed to mafia behaviour.[B
as for being flippant... check my posts outside the gameroom, you'll find I'm always 'flippant' (if I've found the right definition that is).
naieve: yes. This ismy first maffia game. :inquisitive:
but much much much more important: I swore on all that is camel that I;m not maffia.
unvote
Vote: Omanes
For not believing my oath on all that is camel and lurking except for when you're in trouble.
I don't think so, Tin :smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I believe Omanes. The only evidence against him is his unusual lack of activity. He has now explained that and I do not believe he is the kind of person who would lie like that to win.
Unvote: Sasaki; Vote Caius
I won't feel too bad if I lose to Sasaki. I don't want to lose to a lurker.