Cosa Nuova II: The Cult of the Cosa Nuova [Concluded]

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Are you converted Stig? Trying to draw attention away from the true mafiosi? Making an unusual long post, in the process drawing away attention from the fact that by unvoting Xehh II you are making sure his skin is saved (since Sasaki is now two votes ahead ...)?

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Countering accusations with accusations, is that the best you can do? And Xehh would be save anyway, even if I would not unvote him.

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I voted Twilight because he seemed to cautiously avoid getting WoG'ed. Since he didn't vote for more than 48 hours, he would have get WoG'ed. That's why I unvoted him

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So let me get this straight:
You vote Twilight, because you think he's suspicious
Then you unvote him because he would have been WoGed.
But he hasn't.



BTW, I've been wondering about this:

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Originally Posted by Kommo in the introduction to the game

To prevent players from “lurking” and not participating in the discussion, anyone who does not vote for three rounds in a row, or a total of five rounds throughout the game, will be eliminated. This is actually quite lenient, so don’t worry about short absences you are required to take – just let me know in advance.

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Says nothing about 3 in total

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

So... Xdeathfire got lynched over Sasaki ?

IF I was cantankerous I could have pointed out the fact that Sasaki never unvoted Seamus before putting his vote on Xdeathfire. Hence the tie should still be standing. So if somebody really want Sasaki lynched they should break the tie... like right now.

Just to update my list of people that are in danger of WoG if not putting in votes for the rest of the game:

Dutch_guy
Sapi
TwilightBlade
Warmaster Horus

Also from this round:
CountA voted third on the Sasaki bandwagon and Andres third on the Xdeathfire bandwagon

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Bah, I misunderstood Sigurd's post.

You're right, I'm wrong. :embarassed: :sorry:

Gah.

But I stick to my vote for Xehh II. People are voting Sasaki for his louzy defense, but Xehh II did even worse...

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Originally Posted by Stig

And Xehh would be save anyway, even if I would not unvote him.

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I disagree.

@Andres - yes, but Xehh is inexperienced. Sasaki is not.

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Originally Posted by sapi

@Andres - yes, but Xehh is inexperienced. Sasaki is not.

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Inexperienced or not, that doesn't mean a) he is a priori innocent ; b) he cannot read the thread and give some decent argumentation.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

If this is your only defence Sasaki, I'll have to vote for you.

vote:Sasaki

Ichigo told us why he thought you were innocent but there are far to many descrepancies in this explanation to be using it as hard evidence of innocence.

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Defence against what exactly? People are just voting me on carry over.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Defence against what exactly? People are just voting me on carry over.

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Any thoughts on the recent developpements in the thread thus far?

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Originally Posted by sapi

@Andres - yes, but Xehh is inexperienced. Sasaki is not.

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Bah, I don't buy that argument. This is my first mafia game, yet I still do my best to explain my arguments. Its not that difficult of a concept.

My supsicions for mafiosi so far:

1) Dutch Guy- Been lurking most of the game, only to vote when in danger of WoG. Gave a good explanation of his vote, but has since disappeared completely, no contribution to discussion at all.

2) Caius- Again, lurking, semi-lurking the whole game, but not enough to garner a lot of attention to himself. Has been mostly under the radar the whole game, and hasn't contributed much to discussion.

3) Xehh, though I have a stronger suspicion that he's the convert for the mafia instead. No explanations for his votes. Most often, comes, votes, and is gone until the next round, with no discussion or explanation.

Comments?

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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

Any thoughts on the recent developpements in the thread thus far?

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no.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

no.

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Is this game boring you :inquisitive: ?

I said a few days ago that I would change my vote to Sasaki if he didn't provide a decent defence of himself, or at least explain his self-preservation act. It's been a couple of days now, and he didn't say much good, so Vote:Sasaki Kojiro. If anything succeeds in saving him from death it'll be nothing short of a miracle.

PS: thanks Andre for reminding me of that.

EDIT: apparently it is boring him, but there's not much else to do when you're sure to be lynched.

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

I said a few days ago that I would change my vote to Sasaki if he didn't provide a decent defence of himself, or at least explain his self-preservation act..

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I did.

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Post 151 Sasaki FoS's me for going after Caius with the invisibility issue. Nevermind the fact that I have profile-watched many times before, most notably in Cosa Nuova I.

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Caius has used invisibility for several games. Lot's of innocents use it. It is therefore mildly suspicious to call someone on it, regardless of whether you've profile watched. In fact it has nothing to do with whether you've profile watched. I didn't want to give a reason because I only know he's been using invisibility because I'm a mod.

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Implying that he was aware of this before, therefore he wouldn't remove me first in fear that I would play with a vengeance.

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It doesn't imply that. I've killed you night one before.

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Since he had gone after me more than usual in the pre-Night One phase, combined with the fact that I was attempted to be recruited first and the fact that he subtly distanced himself from my kill, I believe that his initial persecution of me was a set-up and an alibi, and he had planned to recruit me from early on. Unfortunately, this plan failed.

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How can you plan to recruit someone when you don't know who the strong minded townies are? How would that set up an alibi? This doesn't make sense.

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Now, I admit that starting small, weak bandwagons have always been part of his strategy, but this is not a small, weak bandwagon. He wants Warluster lynched, plain and simple.

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We went over this. I've always been a fan of pushing someone hard. You'll never lynch mafia without a wagon. If you look at any of the games I do this.

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Four days later and we're still waiting. Obviously a stalling tactic to stay alive. Much like TV shows promising resolutions to cliffhangers if viewers keep watching.

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Yeah.

I was unwilling to provide the proof of my innocence because it reveals to the mafia all the people who have been investigated. I was not aware that the result was inconclusive.

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Convenient that there are plenty of other lurkers around but he FoS's the one that happens to vote for him.

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Convenient how? Are these other lurkers the same that have been WoG'd? Again this is normal behavior for me.

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Also in that post was a link directing me to the Wikipedia article entitled "Burden of Proof," implying that I needed proof when accusing someone.

I think the parallels between real life law and mafia law stop when people are brought to justice by an angry lynch mob and not a professional team of law enforcement officials.

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You were referencing past posts and not bothering to look them up.




So where is the evidence of my guilt? There isn't any. My method of defense or lack of defense or whatever you want to call it isn't evidence of guilt. Compare to my defense in Capo.

As for breaking the tie, may I point out that the last time we had a "next vote breaks the tie" situation someone quickly broke it and I was lynched. It's always better to lynch a possibel mafia than someone you know is innocent. Most of the people saying I should have gone for more discussion aren't creating discussion themselves.

Excuse me if I missed something then, but what was it? "Ties promote discussion only when they give us an extra day." Was it that?
If you had, indeed, defended yourself correctly, then what would you be doing with 6 votes on you?

EDIT: arrgg, should have come up before your post. Nevermind.
"A confirmed Mafia" you say. How do you know he was a confirmed mafioso?
"Someone you know is innocent" you say. Of course you'd say that. Except we don't really have any proof of your innocence.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Yeah.

I was unwilling to provide the proof of my innocence because it reveals to the mafia all the people who have been investigated. I was not aware that the result was inconclusive.

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I'm just guessing here, but maybe the result of the detective being inconclusive means you are a strong-minded townie...

Even if Sasaki got converted last night (which I doubt, I think the mafia prefers to let him live, since he draws votes to him), converted townies are not our primary targets.

Also, Warmaster_Horus, now that you are here and participating, what are your thoughts on Xehh II and in particular on the conversation with him earlier on the day.

Xehn II is annoying, disturbing us and needs to be removed by the end of next turn (1 night and 1 day). With luck, the Mafia will do us a favor tonight.

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

I said a few days ago that I would change my vote to Sasaki if he didn't provide a decent defence of himself, or at least explain his self-preservation act. It's been a couple of days now, and he didn't say much good, so Vote:Sasaki Kojiro.

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Well now, was this true Warmaster? This was your reason for voting me right?

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Xehn II is annoying, disturbing us and needs to be removed by the end of next turn (1 night and 1 day). With luck, the Mafia will do us a favor tonight.

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So, in fact you believe Xehh II is an innocent townie. Annoying, disturbing, unhelpful etc, but still a townie.

Then why is it you want to see him removed?

The mafiosi need to die, not the townies.

I don't see what's wrong. I found your answer unsatisfactory and kept true to my word.

Say, what did you edit from you post which answered for your untie?

EDIT, answer: the Mafiosi need to die. But, they aren't dead yet. Should Xehn be a townsperson, he'll hopefully die. If he isn't, then suspicions will remain high against him.
Why do I want him removed? Because such unhelpfulness can cause us to miss a lynch. He might be a townie, unhelpful and stuff, but he'd still be a townie. And, if we lynch him, we may lose a lynch opportunity. Remember Lemur? Same case here I'd say.
Of course, there's still the possibility that he's a mafioso. If he was, he played carefully at the start, so why would he be careless now?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

no.

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Than what's the use of still having you here?

bye, pity I won't need to vote for you

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Originally Posted by Stig

Than what's the use of still having you here?

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The fact that he is probably not one of the 3 original Cosa Nuova...?

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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

The fact that he is probably not one of the 3 original Cosa Nuova...?

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Well he isn't helping us, and we don't know for sure who is mafia, we only have suspicions. Killing an unhelpfull townie is a good idea in that case.


Sides why is he now probably no mafia? What changed your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

I don't see what's wrong. I found your answer unsatisfactory and kept true to my word.

Say, what did you edit from you post which answered for your untie?

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Changed confirmed to possible.

This is the part where you say what was unsatisfactory, because there isn't actually a case against me.

Ok. It seem that most people don't like me here, I think I need to explain.

1. I don't make arguments because I'm not good at making them and they would be stupid.

2. I don't defend myself because I am stupid and can't do that properly, if I did try to defend myself most of you(apart from the mafia) would think i'm even more guilty.

3. And I don't get into discussions is both of the above.

While im dead.I must wonder what was the reason behind Ichigo´s suicide? Becouse of the brake i have had i dont know all the players,but some reason Warmaster Horus stands out from the crowd with his continuos assault against Sasaki and also Xehh II. Other then that,i find this game pretty confusing,since it seems most of the players are just repeating mafia game mantras and the conversation seems very shallow, even Sasaki seems pretty distant and i havent seen much of his usual pittbull tactics.:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Stig

Well he isn't helping us, and we don't know for sure who is mafia, we only have suspicions. Killing an unhelpfull townie is a good idea in that case.

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I don't agree. Killing a townie is always bad.

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Originally Posted by Stig

Sides why is he now probably no mafia? What changed your opinion?

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I am pretty sure he received the exact same pm I received after being investigated. This combined with the early reveal/confirmation by Ichigo, makes me think Sasaki started the game as an innocent townie. The "probably" is because he might have been converted last night, allthough I tend to believe the mafia didn't want to risk killing him since he draws votes and will get lynched soon. Any experienced mafia player at the Org prefers a lynched Sasaki over a murdered one.

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

Ok. It seem that most people don't like me here

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First of all, nothing in here is personal, it's all "in character", so please don't feel insulted. :bow: Never forget: it's a game and the continuous inquisition-like questioning is normal. It's the equivalent of "welcome to .Org mafia games :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

I think I need to explain.

1. I don't make arguments because I'm not good at making them and they would be stupid.

2. I don't defend myself because I am stupid and can't do that properly, if I did try to defend myself most of you(apart from the mafia) would think i'm even more guilty.

3. And I don't get into discussions is both of the above.

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Allthough such modesty is always appreciated in real life and will earn you some sympathy, it itches me when used as an excuse in mafia games.

So, let go the modesty, quit avoiding to give straight answers to simple enough questions and you might find yourself less a target...

So: why did you vote Sasaki? What are your insights in this game. Is there any other player who is suspicious in your opinion?

It's not that difficult. Come on, answer the questions :whip:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki

As for breaking the tie, may I point out that the last time we had a "next vote breaks the tie" situation someone quickly broke it and I was lynched.

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Actually the last time that happened was in this game - and it was Stig riding to your rescue to save you from a lynching. See 309.

But now.....

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Originally Posted by Stig

Well he {Sasaki} isn't helping us, and we don't know for sure who is mafia, we only have suspicions. Killing an unhelpfull townie is a good idea in that case.


Sides why is he now probably no mafia? What changed your opinion?

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...we see how the worm has turned in just a few days of mutual distrust & recrimination.

I've got a new theory about Sasaki: the more innocent he appears the more likely he is to be guilty, the more guilty the more likely he is to be innocent.

One thing is certain though - he's only got himself to blame for his lynching.

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One thing is certain though - he's only got himself to blame for his lynching.

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Nonsense, you should all trust me implicitly.

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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

Allthough such modesty is always appreciated in real life and will earn you some sympathy, it itches me when used as an excuse in mafia games.

So, let go the modesty, quit avoiding to give straight answers to simple enough questions and you might find yourself less a target...

So: why did you vote Sasaki? What are your insights in this game. Is there any other player who is suspicious in your opinion?

It's not that difficult. Come on, answer the questions :whip:

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The reason I vote Sasaki is because at the start of the game I asked why I didn't get a pm, not many people wanted to help me, he wanted to help the least and at one point calling me me stupid(I think) I later found out the town people don't get messages then everyone thought I was an idiot.

I don't have any insights in the game to be honest most of the time the people say nothing worth reading so I don't read whats happening because I can't be be stuffed filtering out the random stuff people say.

I think you are suspicious because you won't leave me alone.:furious3:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

While im dead.I must wonder what was the reason behind Ichigo´s suicide? Becouse of the brake i have had i dont know all the players,but some reason Warmaster Horus stands out from the crowd with his continuos assault against Sasaki and also Xehh II. Other then that,i find this game pretty confusing,since it seems most of the players are just repeating mafia game mantras and the conversation seems very shallow, even Sasaki seems pretty distant and i havent seen much of his usual pittbull tactics.

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I stand out of the crowd because of "repeated assaults against SK?" Just wanting to know why he broke the tie, and asking him to explain himself is suspicious now? Anyway, it doesn't seem to make much difference now. I may stand out, but I wasn't the first to vote against him.

I didn't want to ask, because I feared I might have missed it, and thought of checking the thread again tomorrow, but after Kage's post, I will: why did Ichigo commit suicide? He didn't seem particularly unhappy.

Xehn II, I was the same as you until very recently. At first I thought "Why bother posting? What you'll say is stupid, and very useless." But, after a couple of Mafia games that changed.

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The reason I vote Sasaki is because at the start of the game I asked why I didn't get a pm, not many people wanted to help me, he wanted to help the least and at one point calling me me stupid(I think) I later found out the town people don't get messages then everyone thought I was an idiot.

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I believe he said that because Kommodus said it himself:

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If you didn't get a PM, you are a normal villager. However, remember that you may be a "strong-minded" villager, one that can be recruited by the Cosa Nuova.

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Next, you say:

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I don't have any insights in the game to be honest most of the time the people say nothing worth reading so I don't read whats happening because I can't be be stuffed filtering out the random stuff people say.

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This is a bit less excusable. You signed up for this Mafia game, so logically you're supposed to keep up with it. And to have a minimal interest. Of course, you can always abandon and commit suicide. But that seems a bit extreme.

And finally:

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I think you are suspicious because you won't leave me alone.

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He's only trying to get the town to win (or is he?). To do that, the players must engage in the most discussion possible, and they ought to share their knowledge. Or at least what they think. When he asks you questions, he's trying to help you (explain why you said this, so you won't be suspicious, and won't get killed)

My advice to you is to join one of the mini-mafias. There you'll be able to play relatively quickly, and you'll get to "feel" mafia at the Org. (I'll stop the relative OOC-ness here)