manti, if your role inverts others why didnt you invert me? maybe it would have reset shots or something
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manti, if your role inverts others why didnt you invert me? maybe it would have reset shots or something
9
can we just maj maple and kick back off tomorrow same time? lol
Nono, the inverter turned my "self-inventor" into a "normal inventor".
Or rather, I can select a card and draw it and it's a usable action but I don't know what they do until it's in my hand.
Now I simply give someone else a card.
I gave Arctic the 7 of Pennticles (or coins or whatever) hoping it'd be like a commute or smth. No such luck, evidently.
It's funny that my other target was gonna be bop, but I tried dodging kp w/ Arctic. Somehow it'd be more correct to give the card to a claimed pr lol
nah we gotta wagon ladd and wisdom too for the infonomicsQuote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
No those are two totally different things.
You're never gonna believe me but I actually haven't lied about a single thing this game.
Yep, I'm bamboozled. Nothing happening in this game aligns with the Maf wiki description of "inverted." It sounds more like someone's upgrading your and jan's PRs, if you've been truthful (which itself sounds like an unclaimed town PR).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple
What did you claim for N1 again?
whats ur flavor nameQuote:
Originally Posted by Maple
World
I can select any of the minor arcana
If I'm remembering right it's
Swords wands cups and the fancy old English word for coins
Vote: Wisdom
I think that the inverter is town. Don't really see Jan and Maple as mafia targets (I say this despite Jan's PR claim yesterday, but we're in role madness so w/e)
Monty want to mason :hide:
Vote: Wisdom
where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)
~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good
v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts
lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.
poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.
wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun
i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)
I can't core you, but maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby
I'll let someone else sort out Maple and what he did D1 vs D2, it's not productive for me to think about him.
We need to hear Ender's full claim, and why Wisdom the firefighter allowed Stetter to die.
ladd is the best wagon for the day.
Leans
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
when is the last time you updated your listQuote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Right now. Here's D2.Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Dya was obv locked after D2. Neb and Sunbae moved to just null, because they said some creepy things today but I still can't think of anything very good or bad about them. Maybe I could move everyone in the high null up to light town, but I'm not really thinking about them. Today I'm thinking about Syn, Ladd, Ender, and sorting out Ender and Wisdom PR claims. Maple is mixed null; I'll try to avoid that discourse. Jan is still in special because I'm not sure I can trust their claim (though I could be wrong about stetter being arsoned).
whichQuote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
me/sheep for oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
knights/monty seems ~likely too (or i'm wrong)
reminder that raskol was a villager WRT vote logic (people who voted him EOD 1 over syn voted a villager wagon over a wolf wagon)
less so yesterday after the claim (because it was a weird claim and likely to be non villager after that) but people pushing him before the claim also were essentially pushing a villager.
btw I think that based on his card (the devil) he was likely an arsonist. He was neutral, flavor works well for that role, and it makes wisdom's role believable/likely villager.
Since no additional kp showed n1, makes arsonist more likely too.
i'm probably cool with soft clearing wisdom(and yes ofc a wolf firefighter with a neutral arsonist is possible but I don't think visor would give a wolf firefighter and not a villa firefighter, and then I assume that villa would have counterclaimed wisdom)
I think jan not saving newcomb is somewhat inexcusable if he was a protective (its a closed setup, you don't assume that wolves are gonna medic dodge from the obvious kill because they don't know if there is a protective ability, and if so what it is/how it interacts with them. He should know that and should have saved newcomb if he's a villager because newcomb is A) an obvious SPK and b) was cleared by the whole game and c) led the elim on a wolf. )
I think him being inverted and staying the 'same role' is kinda silly, and i kinda doubt that visor would make a role in a game with an inverter that would just ignore the ability, seems nonsensical. Or if he was actually inverted he's lying about what the inversion does (*cough cough* there was extra kp in the night)
I think his treatment of syn/raskol day 1 looks ESPECIALLY horrible now considering raskol flipped neutral (village essentially) and syn was a wolf. He was trying to get people off of syn multiple times based on raskol's read of syn, and voted raskol instead. Like ladd said yesterday, its pretty viable for wolf!jan to try to use villa!raskol's notoriously good read on syn to try to clear his wolf bro when raskol gets elimed. Obviously in this scenario raskol was a neutral but the logic still stands.
devil being arsonist makes obvious sense except rask was def true claiming his sheep shotQuote:
Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee
ig its possible he had vig shots as well as arson? i prefer not to speculate about role stuff personally
I think its possible that raskol claimed the shot because no villager had claimed it and he thought it was wolf kp, and claiming the shot on sheep would let him live through the day (he was getting some traction on votes)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
but can't really depend on his claims to be accurate because he was a neutral, and dya did claim a shot on sheep, so i'm just living in the simple world where dya's shot is the real shot and raskol just made up everything and was fake claiming to try and live through the day (the fact that he claimed a 2 shot vig is relevant because if he was an arsonist he would have to douse/ignite, so he was probably going to ignite n2 to 'prove' his kp)
but I just think firefighter is a random first role to claim if you're wisdom (afaik he was the first person to claim a role at all) which makes me more confident that its true as well.
Who are you looking at for wolves today gemma?
i'm still working under the assumption you're a villa from EOD 1 so i'm down to potentially compromise on a shared wolf read
ladd/wisdom/maple mainly
ender or not ender depending on what he claims
1 sec i'll make a readlist for u
v
dya
grr
-
insom
-
nee
jan
sunbae
dolby
-
mont
- null
neb
vanta
ender
-
wisdom
maple
-
ladd
w
Eek, bloodbath. Okay I now think dya town and sorry about that bad vote.
what is the difference between jailkeeper and jailkeeper then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan
Seconding thanks for vote historyQuote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
Hey VantaQuote:
Originally Posted by Vanta Black
What are your strongest reads
Also just gonna say, assuming Rask is a solo, I personally am leaning to him being SK and his Sheep shot being real (he did say on D1 that Sheep was a slot he was pinged by fwiw). I just don’t think he claims the shot if he didn’t actually do it because as third party that’s just a game over for you no matter what if town believes your claim, or they don’t believe your claim: you aren’t getting to the end of the game because your shot is going to be CCed.
Him claiming two shot imo was an attempt to be accepted but not be a target for a mafia kill (mafia either roleblock him or leave him alone as someone without an action)
Okay if stett was jailed by Jan n1 wouldn't this have prevented her being ignited?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Also, do lovers get to pick or is it kind of an arranged marriage? (Have never been in lover's game)
Could Ender's thing have blocked the jailkeeping?
You haven't lied but any more "joke posts" like the one about the despo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple
ARe we though?Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
The joke post was pretty recognizable to anyone in or spectating d4 of anni (which is like 1/2 of the game), I think it’s fine and not something to dunk on (though Maple is still a wolf and can go today)
Well that was quite an EOD2 wasn't it? I feel like maybe if he was SK he would have had more than two shots (could have lied about that too though) and it sounds like maybe you doubt that too. Kinda seems like it's game over for you though even if you do claim the shot. As was the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby
Have not really updated my reads, although I did read sunbae and insomnia as two who just didn't stand out to me. Sunbae I still don't know. The thing is, pretty much everybody sounds okay as far as tone. Nebjiamn is pinging me with his "we are winning" post because it seems the opposite, but I don't wanna be a doomsayer on D3. Jan's claim is kinda bothering me too, and he was one of my strongest TRs.
arrangedQuote:
Originally Posted by Vanta Black
Okay, I will not dunk on it again then. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby
Fluff: it appears I need to upgrade my visual game here, probably starting with the pfp (that is what you young'uns call the avatar, right?) I resolve to do that as soon as this game is over. Don't expect any GIFs.
Vanta what do you think of the current thread consensus that the four wolfiest people are Maple, Wisdom, Ladd, and Ender? And the less consensus read that Montmorency had potential to be a neutral teammed with Rask?
Tbh I’m struggling to think of a person who’s checked in today besides you who has major scumreads out of those first four names
I’d be interested in seeing your overall view of the game at some point today
look at it this way:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanta Black
of the available village KP (including the elim + vigs that we know of), we have only missed once and it was on a Poe slot/overlapped with the likely shot of the neut (only saying ‘likely’ cause ppl are floating the idea of devil being an arsonist but I am skeptical)
Killing a wolf may have been better yesterday, especially if we could hit their kp, but we might still be staring at another villa death from rasks kill in that case, or even a 4th overnight death (tbf he also may have shot a wolf)
basicallt what I’m saying is we’re winning in day play for sure. And in night actions, from what we know, we’re still doing pretty well all things considered. If we keep at it like this and find a way to lose then the setup is broken or we are being SEVERELY outplayed at night but that doesn’t feel that way to me rn
Why wasn't Stett a more obvious SPK? More consensus towny posting, and led the Syn wagon just as much. I agree on Jan suss more broadly. But I have no idea what inverter is supposed to mean here either way, and no one else seems to have a clear idea either.Quote:
Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee
Rask was not fakeclaiming for giggles. There is no reason for Maf not to NK him after that claim. Maybe not immediately, but he doesn't survive. Do you believe he was holding an unlimited BP? My only SK rand had unlimited BP, but I'm pretty sure that's not a setup seen since the old-school days. Or maybe, you think he deliberately wanted to eat a NK to help out Town?
Dolby, make sure to press for claims on Maple's gift. I know what I said, but it's important to get that specific aspect confirmed if we're just going to pile on him like we did with Rask.
Ok so to start lets get some things we know down:
A. From the wolves pov we know they thought Rask was town. This is relevant not just for eod1 wagon analysis but also eod2 analysis where wolves were thinking we were chopping a town vig. When rereading eod1 (which I will be doing shortly) we have known info that there were wagons on Sheep (villa), Rask (villa from wolf pov), and Syn (wolf). When rereading yesterday, I want to look at which players were posting in a way to look good after town Rask vig flips at eod.
B. There are quite a few claims and the game can turn mechanical pretty easily but I want to use mechanical claims to supplement reads on actual posting rather than making reads based on the claims. None of the claims are really verifiable without flips and frankly they all sound kind of convoluted to begin with so trying to figure out what's real and what's made up just isn't really my cup of tea. Would prefer to just use all the known flips to judge people on their own and then use mechanics to tilt us in once direction or another if its close.
C. I'm of the belief that things have been going well enough thus far (2 kills out of 2 chops is as much as you could hope for) but today - now that we have 7 alignments - should see a fair amount of shake ups in reads lists. Use what we have so far as a starting point but don't be afraid to shake it up. There's enough info now we should have the ability to make good reads for good reasons instead of vibe checks and mostly meta.
My plans for this game day are:
- reread eod1
- focus on the wagons we know results of, figure out who was moving where
- pay attention to dead villagers and their pushes during these times. lots of good players in this game so want to pay extra attention to why they died over others
- reread post Dya claim day 2
- focus on reactions and who seems gung ho about killing rask vs those that want to look good for the next day
- form a towncore
- use said towncore to pore over the thread and help sort the game
- be annoyed at myself for not just shitposting and vibing still
- brains be weird
- sort through any mechanical thing that bothers me
- get a full reads list with in depth explanations for each player
- hope thats good enough to win
when i say 'spk' I mean 'strong player kill' which has the connotation of meaning 'nightkill someone who is a very strong villager who will clear themselves and is likely to solve the game if cleared/alive in lylo'. And while didistetter is definitely able to clear themselves, they are still a relatively new player, at least relative to this player list, so they wouldn't be someone i would typically kill n1, normally it would be like ladd/benneh/sunbae/newcomb in this player list IMO (which is why three of the four still being alive is worrying).Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
In the world that i'm talking about (raskol = neut arsonist) he was fake claiming villa kp to possibly escape elim (several people who were possible wagons were claiming, he was a viable wagon, he would be able to demonstrate KP n2 if he was an arsonist). Obviously it would potentially limit his lifespan but a) if you get elimed you're dead anyways lol and b)arsonists more often than not are neutral.
I think most people are overthinking it ATM.
And yes i'm kinda using wisdom's claim to decide he's an arsonist, but wisdom claiming firefighter and then having a neutral flip that day seems too wild for me to doubt IMO. And since there wasn't a counter claim to firefighter I think wisdom is essentially always villa because it seems unlikely the setup would be just a wolf firefighter. (and even if there was a weird setup where that was the case, Wisdom wouldn't know that was the setup, and would have to assume he would get counterclaimed by a villa firefighter, and therefore wouldn't claim like he did)
One thing I failed to consider is that since there was only 2 kp shown n1 (and dya claims the shot on sheep) its technically possible that Jan did get a save on didistetter n1. the death of didistetter n2 might also make sense in that context because they killed didi after a saved kill n1.
that would be a lot of kp in a 22 person game tbh, but depending on the setup its possible.
I am kinda anti-consensus but I will weigh in on those four.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby
A little less interested in Wisdom today, I thought her claim was skeevy but somebody mentioned that Rask could've been an arsonist. Or there could be a scum arsonist. I'm a little more interested in Maple. Ender I always think as scummy (he has played, as Bladescape, on the Giraffe boards--you probably knew that--so I'm more familiar with him than with most names here). I want to hear more about his N1 claim. I'd have to look at ladd again, and I will.
Theknightsofnee has checked in and voted Jan btw so that is one other player who has a scumread outside of those 4.
I think that Montmorency has the potential to be teamed with Rask, but I don't think he is. I don't have a lot of experience with teamed 3Ps, and by that I mean I have just never seen them.
Kind of offtopic: This is the third Tarot-themed mafia game I have played. The other two were open, as in, we knew what the cards did, just not who had which cards or which cards would be drawn.
Oooof whatQuote:
Originally Posted by Visor
I get that people hate making pure setup/mechanical reads WRT clearing people.
but I think the logic of 'why would wolf!wisdom claim firefighter if he would reasonably expect to get counterclaimed? and there is no way he could reasonably know there was an actual neutral in the game prior to raskol flip' logic is pretty sound and IMO clearing for wisdom.
I'll see if I can supplement it with a reads based reason to villa read wisdom as well but they seem like the obvious mislynch that people are pushing unnecessarily atm.
Work starts today so I'll be back in a bit
I thought Rask was arsonist but wtf are those kills then
Pondering this post while I eat cup noodle and fully loaded nachosQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
THIS SEEMS IMPORTANT BTWQuote:
Originally Posted by Arctic
arctic flipped death
i remembered that arctic flipped death and was like 'hmm that sounds an awful like it could be kp'Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic
then i remembered this post (which felt like he was lynching someone who claimed vig when he was vig)
kept looking through his posts and found the other one.
arctic probably shot either bop/didi then, looking through his posts to try and find out, but I doubt it was didi
I think he had bop v but I’m on phone and can’t checkQuote:
Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee
its also possible he targeted maple, who he sus quite a bit and died to a pgo/reflexive mill
Yo
Starting vacation from today so ill be extremely spotty
Idk what do with monti tunnel, its so incredibky silly and he in general he is out of the loop that i kinda think he is not a wolf but then we are probably doomed
I dont really tgink we are winning
Agree artic was villa kp, he softed last post. He didnt shoot bop nor didi tho so i kindaaaa think he may have killed himself? Like maybe he is desperado or some shit, should prob see if he softed anything
btw this is pretty tinfoil world for me
but bop died after calling out dya for possibly being a wolf fake claim, and now arctic would be village kp as well as dya
not saying i'm worried about dya yet but its something to marinate on..
after posting this seems unlikely that arctic would shoot anyone other than maple IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Arctic
I can’t find his tier list but ya I think he jus shoots mapleQuote:
Originally Posted by Arctic
Dyas claim is too specific with conditions and how they cc’d rask, idt they can / would fake that despite what bop said. Requires too many things to coincidentally land dyas way on top of taking a silly 1 for 1 (From their original pov if w) out of relatively nowhereQuote:
Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee
Arctics soft and how he approached the dya/rask battle also implies he’s the even/n2 version of dyas role. Can’t pull posts but he implicitly believed dya more and it’s prob cause their condition lined up /mirrored if I had to guessQuote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)
For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no
I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky
Ya dya v
Dont tinfoil it, theyll die within 2 nights anyway
I'm mainly making this specific post bc I was annoyed that Maple called me out for having them in my "Rask/Wisdom/Maple/Ladd" wolf team yesterday (when I said Arctic had a 4/4) and I conceded that Maple didn't look w/w with Rask (pretty much my only hangup with that team), and then they said that I was capping pairing them with Ladd. And I think when looking deeper into that team, rather than just relying off of my individual scumreads that Ladd and Maple actually look pretty teammed.
For those not aware Manti is another name for Maple
Sidenote that out of Ender/Wisdom/Maple/Ladd I actually sus Ender the least right now. I would have said Ladd yesterday, and am still kinda tempted to say Ladd now. Dude is vascillating between my sussest towny, or my towniest wolf
I haven't written a lot about Ladd and I don't really intend to, we're entering the work week and his individual posts are just to long, but I think that how he interacts with Maple D2 is exactly how one interacts with a teammate that's getting a good deal of heat but you think is salvagable if their posting improves and you don't really want to bus
light sus of Manti while he is (I believe) voting Gemma who has Manti as their standalone lowest read, their read of manti is literally "die".Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
feels like a read that you make on a teammate that looks like they'll survive the day but isn't going to last long term. Really looks like something you want to use to argue points later if that teammate does flip red in a role flipless game. Same post ladd wants to remove two people from his townreads SPECIFICALLY if Maple flips red. This is the only such caveat that he gives in his readslist, no one else is really dependent on anyone else for his reads. Given this, I think that he'd give more consideration to solving Manti, but on Day One Manti is barely mentioned in his ISO at all, just as someone who he is nominally sus of and in his bottom tier of five, but doesn't get any attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Maple is a pivot read and a read that two other slots are dependent on, AND a scumread, more effort should be expended on Maple, but it just isn't
ok so, solve Manti bc you haven't mentioned Manti much despite wanting a Benneh isoQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Ladd isn't trying to solve Maple, Ladd is trying to solve around Maple, pretty much all his content about Maple (not counting 6 words post) is him asking Maple to do stuff (the Benneh ISO) or Maple in the reads of other people. I don't feel like this is a genuine scumread he had at this point, I don't feel like he's evaluating Maple's posts. Admitidly I got to Maple via Maple seeming way out of place in Syn's reads list (when I get to the day two section of this post, which Ladd also does), but I took a look at Maple's posts and thought they didn't look towny
so day two ladd's first vote is on Maple. He will have one post that I like from him later, but he doesn't really talk about Maple before, or for a while after, or try to do anything with his Maple vote. It just existsQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
he has this post also talking about Maple in Syn's readslist, which is a good point, but he isn't really using it to push anywhere, or move Maple forwardQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I actually like this post tbh, just meshs well with me
I think this is a good encapsulation on why I think they have partner equity. Maple isn't really mentioned big posts like this or when it's useful to Ladd when making a point about something else. Ladd says that he thinks Maple is the least villagey, but he isn't really doing anything to move a Maple vote forward. Heck he even makes a point to that Maple could be villa. He's sussing and voting Maple without trying to move Maple forward or having that sus impact the game. He isn't trying to get other people to vote Maple, he just leaves the vote there, and mentions it every so often, mostly when he's talking about his reads overallQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
So ladd, you ready to kill Maple today? You said you would be here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Sure, if yall dont kill me first
@ender i think u should claim full role too atp
that makes me want to kill maple even moreQuote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
might be brainrotting rn but what if Maple's PGO was real/gave immunity, and that's what killed Arctic
also gonna say, firmly believe that Rask did shoot Sheep
Bop and Stett were both probably mafia KP (assuming maf have a even night vig or something like that) if that's the case
honestly man idk how many times i've said it i'm getting boring of saying itQuote:
Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee
stop using the word lynch pls
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Raw shit for me to parse all in one place, ignore it
@Montmorency why did you vote and unvote Rask at EOD1? Why didn't you end on Syn? relying on rask's read?
A few immediate thoughts:
- In the event Ladd is a wolf their approach with Syn at eod1 is to poke holes in Syn defenses. Notably when people are using things like Rask's god read of Syn as a reason not to vote Syn and replying that Rask has backed off some (to Jan) but also to be hedging on Syn himself by saying more villagery than the wolf game but not as villagery as the villa game. Which my initial feeling is that w!ladd would either take a stance on wolf syn to either defend or get credit OR just let others defend Syn via Rask but he does neither. He even then comes out and says even if Syn is a wolf it's not outing for Rask so like, he's also not tying together Rask/Syn in the "in Syn dies wolf then Rask is wolfy" way either? The town list of ladd/newcomb/stett/arctic/bop/grrr/jan/dya that he dropped is looking pretty fire atm if I listen to people about Grrr and believe the Jan/Dya claims (and I'll get to Dya shortly but I think that's a lock V). I really like the inquiry to Jan about why it has to be Rask or Syn while Jan is voting Rask and being adamant that Rask over Syn is the way to go in this situation.
I have a few follow ups for Ladd that hopefully can help me. At one point you shade Knights for voting Gemma while you and Gemma can't be paired (you're voting Gemma at the time) but at no point from 2.5 hours til eod to actual eod do you say a single word about Gemma. Gemma is a wagon almost the the entire time. The only thing you say is "spooky" about Insom's (and I suppose Knights suspicion but not vote?) Gemma vote. What was your thoughts on Gemma as eod proceeded? I ask because Gemma was posting all eod and it was about, well, not much surrounding what was happening. I do know Gemma voted Syn and that's a great look but the Arctic post about Knights/Gemma situation consolidating on Syn feeling weird is something that feels weird to me too. And Gemma basically just voted Knights and Syn because they were other wagons as far as I can tell (at least specifically mentioned that about Knights). As I'm trying to put worlds together I'd like to know why you feel you/gemma can't be paired at that point as well if you don't mind.
- I would be absolutely floored if Knights is a wolf. That end of day was pretty fantastic. Was churning out reads on their own interest (went and checked Vanta, went and checked Cobalt). He also just has his own worldview that he sticks to when disagreed with despite being under pressure. Not appeasing, more confident in a "i think what i think" way. Looks at top wagons near the very end (rask/syn), says hes gonna read them and comes back with a Rask defense and a Syn wolf read. Then votes Syn. Wolf Knights has every opportunity to land on a non-wolf in this spot. Sheep is being pushed. Rask is being pushed. He defends both of those wagons and votes Syn. And he does it with villagery posting along the way.
- I gave a lot of credit for Insomnia's vote on Syn "without reading their posts" but one thing I'm concerned about now is that Insomnia mentioned multiple times that he had no read on Syn as people discussed - couldn't remember any posts, didn't read them, etc - and at no point just ... went and read them? And in hindsight I kind of hate the shade of Knights (who i think is a very likely villager) for caring more than Gemma? Like Gemma was posting this whole time and Insomnia never even mentioned Gemma outside of this. I have slight concerns about a Insom/Gemma/Maple team at the moment but that's whatever/i havent read everything again yet so thats just my eod1 hmmm vibe. But I do want to spend some time just going over my Insomnia read today after giving so many villa points for eod that I dont really hold on reread.
I also think Dya is pretty much locked at this point. The fact that wolf dya would think Rask is a villager means that counterclaim would just be insane. Eod1 posting was towny. Voted syn to tie the wagons. Ended on sheep so shooting sheep makes sense. Breadcrumbed. Just, I'm locked there and will lose to them.
I would also like people to reread Gemma and give thoughts. I was not a fan of the eod at all.
I simply cannot find a reason that wolfMonty unvotes rask day 1, watches Syn get ran up and doesn't care and instead is telling Gemma to remember them, and then ends day 2 calling himself Rask's lover while Rask is about to die. And Monts general posts at eod1 seem fine trying to solve stuff.
Iirc i was shading insomnka for voting gemma with me, not knights
Wrt my gemma read at eod, i was really undecided cause i didnt they were not posting particularly well but they were around a ton and my reasoning for having them as a wolf wasnt as solid as id like my wolfreads to be so i just kinda decided to move off them to wash my hand of kt tho that may sound lame
I wasnt joking when i said i half voted sheep to end off wagon, i dont really like being on top wagon d1 unless its someone i wolfread with a decent amount of confidence or the cw is someone i villa read
I wolfread sheep and figured they wouldnt go over so i just took the easy way out. If wagons were close rask/syn id voted syn to save rask but alas
Ok, I think it was you asking why Knights suspects Gemma right after the spooky comment that made me link them. But I can see that's two different things. Will agree they were around a ton at eod. What are your current Gemma thoughts two days later?Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
So here's the deal: I do have a minor gut fear from day one on you. It was when you were talking about Maple and the words being a meme and having no idea why people were villa reading there. I read that post and my gut ping said "that's Ladd laughing about how easy his partner is getting villa reads for nothing" and then I brushed it off. I still need to reread day two so I'm not locked in but despite that I am currently thinking you have a good chance to be a villager based on eod1. Most notably with how many options other than Syn there were and the fact that you did not either ensure one went over nor get credit for Syn yourself. I do know you're willing to bus and use that credit to get some kills and this was certainty the type of game where nobody would question why you were alive for a while. I also know you are more than willing to power wolf and there were definitely opportunities there. The thing Rask told me repeats in my head: if you were a wolf they'd have been dead.
But I need you to understand that this is a really hard read to make in this situation and I need to be absolutely sure by end of today. Can you tear through this thing with me and help me be absolutely sure? We have so much info we can solve this shit but I need help (im washed! ill be trying today but ugh). Cause I have a feeling getting you right is the key to this game with pressure you've been under and the way the games played out.
@Sunbae reread gemma's eod and idrk what you don't like about it, be more specific? i came away with a better feeling after rereading a bit
these couple posts read like villagey frustration/pushback rather than a wolf but ymmv?
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Originally Posted by Gemma
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Originally Posted by Gemma
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Originally Posted by Visor
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Originally Posted by Gemma
i also think her unvote off of knights who she's been wolfreading all day to counterbalance and join a burgeoning wagon on syn is a straight up good look, especially if we ride with the idea knights is town. i'm struggling to see that as a wolf tactic to try and spew/anti spew syn one way or another since gemma joined as 3rd and made the wagon real (if it wasn't already?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Visor
My current town core is Dya/Knights/Grr (i trusted people on stett and arctic, ill trust em on Grr too)
hmmm
i suppose there's a world where the vote onto syn serves a purpose if it builds up a rask/knights/sheep/gemma quadchotomy wagonfest heading into eod, as that would be 3 villas (from wolf pov) to counter sus on gemma, with a general sentiment assuming thread will lean into more established eod wagons rather than a syn cfd?
idk
i slep now, gn, lookin forward to tomorrow
(as an aside, sad to report, no cat was adopted this weekend. there's a little abraham delacey out there somewhere but we haven't found him yet, not quite time for us it seems.)
Can you start at like #1023ish like I just did and scroll through til eod cause I feel like my issues are more in line with what was happening around her rather than her specific iso. As an example, I think the unvoting knights thing looked like a situation where she was wanting to stay until Knights basically just kept at it and eventually asked if she actually thought Knights was wolfier than Rask and Syn, to which she replied nah and then moved. But also hadn't mentioned Syn at all during that eod before then. And hadn't really been mentioning anyone else other than the people voting her only doing so because of Ladd and only gave reads on anyone by answering direct questions. Idk, I went through that eod from the top and it just felt out of flow in a concerning way.Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Please note: I could not consider myself a strong Gemma reader so by all means if you or someone else is, let's iron that out cause I'd much prefer my initial read of villagery to be right.
aw :(Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
thats ok, soon Abraham Delacey will come home
Quick post, probably last post
The Syn wagon established itself really quick
I’ll preface this by saying ladd could conceivably been caught off guard and not have time to react since this was a two minute window, but Malples Rask vote made the wagons definitively Syn vs Rask. Ladd should have voted Rask to save Syn there, sheep wasn’t going to be it at that point
Benneh who’s bussing (not Maple) Syn in that world to save Gemma? Insomnia? I’m just not seeing that and I’ve liked insomnias posts anyway
I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.
this is for my sake later when reading moreQuote:
Originally Posted by ColonelLubriderm
Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
Why is Knights and Grr top town?