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I played the 1C a long time ago. I went from tier 1&2 "Oh god, why cant I get something that is faster than a snail?" to "HOLY CRAP I'M FLYING! VROOM VROOM, MOTHER:daisy:!"Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Definitely a lot of fun, but you absolutely need to be careful of enemy Pz-1C wolfpacks. A squad of them will absolutely devastate any tank on the field (death by a thousand cuts).
Had such a pack tear apart my team at Malinovka. Opening 90 seconds featured us taking out four of their tanks for two of ours. Then a trio of 1c's with clip guns rolled in from the river (having used two pals as now dead distractions) and then preceded to tear up everybody by triangulating and clip firing form multiple directions. At about one target for 30 seconds, our entire team disappeared with them taking only one further casualty (1 of the 3 Pz-1c's). Yes, I was the one who got it on my third hit in 5 shots. I then was taken out by the buddies. My PZJ-1 did not survive the 37 hits even though only 22 or so penetrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
A very "gamy" tactic, but damned effective.
Question:
I have a Hetzer now. Crew is weak, but I will eventually transfer in skilled crew from other vehicles. So far, it is only so-so but I have upgraded engine and track with stock gun and radio. Gun is next upgrade. Which leads to the question....
Is it better to get the short barreled 105 with the heavy thump but so-so penetration or is it better to get the enhanced penetration 75 with the same damage as now?
Depends a bit on how you play and who you face I think.
The 105mm is a howitzer-type gun and often works best with HE ammunition although I'm not 100% sure how well that works nowadays.
The 75mm fires faster and can penetrate more tanks. It will probably provide a more steady experience because HE can be a bit random. Against tanks that have very low armor (or when you hit the right spot) the howitzer can do tremendous amounts of damage though, one- or two-shot them. Aiming times will be shorter and accuracy higher on the 75mm however.
In the long run you can try them both and see which one works better for you or just check what most people use. I have a Hetzer in my garage and I think it has the 75mm, could be that I just wanted to go against the derp-trend of using Howitzers though.
The 105 will make you a killer when high on the team list and an irritant when low on the list. The 75 is more reliable but average across the board. Try them both and pick the one you like.
Husar, Slyspy:
About what I expected. I very rarely see the Hetzer at the top of the list on the NA server. Usually in the middle or at the bottom. That suggests that I should go for the upgraded 75. Thanks for the confirming input.
I just saw this in a game of mine:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I have seen it before searching the forums, but I thought it was a Photoshopped hoax. I was too busy checking it out that I got whacked by arty as the first tank dead.
It has the 150mm KwK 44 L/83 gun (same as on the E100 : 235/334/85)
It has 200/160/120 hull armor (E100: 200/130/150) and 200/160/120 turret armor (E100: 250/150/150)
Youtube video with a gold spouting pirate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLSej_xdpAs
Sigurd, I know it is a horrible tank and design.
But it always reminds me of the true atrocity here: That I will never get the M60 because I do not plan to ruin my life by joining a pro-clan that makes me play all the time and min-max my behavior until all the fun is gone. And that's the only way to get these clan wars reward tanks at the moment apparently. My plan to collect all the nice American medium tanks (Pershing-Patton line): utterly devastated...
This VK 72.01K just looks like some abomination, a tier 10 VK 45.02B that's not even really good. At least I have never seen one do really good things.
Hetzer consistently getting whacked. Few kills, many one shots by artillery and KV-1s tanks. Very painful. Clearly I am doing something very wrong. Doesn't help that I am usually on the field with 5s and 6s.
Not well equipped may be part of it. I think I will just play 2/3 for a long while until I can buy just about every non gold. I am guessing part of it is that I am underequipped.
I am starting to think that hiding is good for a shot. After that you simply have to run and gun because all the hiding spots are known. Or I just am not doing it right.
Playing TDs is a bit different from playing 'normal' tanks. I tend to hold back and support the first line. Either that or hang about at base for a minute or two and see if your arty needs support. Hide, hide and then hide.The Hetzer is quite low profile so get it cammoed up as fast as poss. Nice lick of paint and some nets should do for now. Get your crew trained up ASAP.
In consumables I always get ventilation, this gives an extra 5% for all crew. Remember, like Brothers in Arms, this is 5% for all crews actions. With BIA, vents and mentor I get my skills up to 110% for commander and 121% for crew. Makes a hell of a difference.
Having said that the only TD I'm using at the moment is the AT-2. What a beast. I stick on the 57mm and go around popping the enemy every 1.89 secs while they just get 'ding ding ding ricochet ding ding you didnt penetrate him ding ding ding'
Makes my day. :smug:
Seamus - one of the most important things about survival (and thus dealing damage) in a TD is knowing if you're spotted and if your enemy can spot you. For the most part, you should be behind a bush (far enough that bush is not see-through) and behind other tanks, so they can spot for you.
I recommend you install this mod: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.p...minimap-gen-3/
It shows you your view range and the draw distance box (how far spotted enemies will actually show up in the engine). If nothing else, it will give you a good idea of how far you can see by yourself. You can use that as a rough guide for the enemy view range, although as a TD your range is usually a bit shorter than theirs.
You should probably try to get a 100% crew before/at unlocking and buying a tier 5. It makes a huge difference in all aspects. Also, once you've gotten to 100% crew in a TD, set them all to camouflage skills. When the commander gets 100% in his first skill and starts training the second, retrain him so he has the 6th Sense perk at 100%. It tells you when you're spotted (after a few second delay) and is so overpowered as to be mandatory for all commanders.
Tier 5 is one of the most popular tiers, which is why you're seeing a lot of 5's and 6's. You might be better off with the 105mm, as you have to worry less about penetration (though even with HE you should be aiming for weak flanks to do more damage).
The sixth sense perk might actually get changed as thze developers are not very happy with it.
I have it on one TD but do not find it all that useful, maybe because that TD is the JPz E-100 and usually not a TD that can hide a whole lot.
On medium and heavy tanks I do not get the point of having sixth sense really as I do not hide in them very often.
Then again I also never had the patience to train my crews to 100% in a tier 4 tank or so.
Good thoughts. Got a little better results with camo net on the beast. Will follow advice on crew when base skill allows. ATPG thanks for the mod.
The devs say a lot of things. :P They really need to rework the entire spotting system, and I hope they don't change 6th sense until then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
It's still pretty useful to know when an enemy has eyes on you if you're making a push - at least you'll know if your lane is defended or not. Mediums should definitely have it for when you are flanking, heavies should have it when you're defending a lane and you need to know if arty will zap you.Quote:
On medium and heavy tanks I do not get the point of having sixth sense really as I do not hide in them very often.
:laugh4:Quote:
I have it on one TD but do not find it all that useful, maybe because that TD is the JPz E-100 and usually not a TD that can hide a whole lot.
It'd be like trying to hide mount Everest on a pool table.
When I make a push it's the delay that kills it for me, if they're waiting already, they will hit me before the lightbulb shows up or so shortly afterwards that I won't have time to react. Although basically I just find it more useful to train the commander in repair or camouflage because getting the tracks back up is far more useful than getting to know they spotted me after I got hit. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
And I'm an opponent of having the same skills on all tanks, I find that rather boring and try to specialize most tanks a little. For mediums that usually means focusing skills and equipment on a more effective gun+movement combination.
With the SU-122-54 I try to focus on stealth, because that's all it has apart from decent maneuverability. :laugh4:
No 6th sense on that though, I might add it later.
Now have camo nets for the sniper TDs. Seems to be helping.
@Kekvit Irae:
I am beginning to wonder if Arty drivers choose to shoot at TDs first rather than at the enemy heavies. The TDs are far easier to kill, but it is usually the heavies that decide the scenario. Thoughts?
A few questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
What skill level are your crew at? Because anything less than 75% is pointless while anything less than 100% will not show you what any tank can do.
Are you clear on how the spotting system works? Your Hetzer has few hitpoints so ideally you want to stay unseen for as long as possible while still doing damage.
What equipment are you using?
Sixth sense in an essential skill on any vehicle type IMO. The delay is three seconds - unless you are out in the open in a slow tank or at a choke point you should have time to find some cover. Of course sometimes you won't be able to do anything about it, but the trick is simply to make yourself a harder target than the next guy. From all the skills and perks only repairs has such a universal and essential role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
It is sometimes easier to target TDs because in general they tend to sit still the longest! They also have fewer hitpoints so it is easier to remove their gun from the battle which will make them something of a priority. Again, make yourself a more difficult target than said heavies and you will help your game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
With skills tha help me aim faster and better, I can pop out, fire and retreat in three seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
If I want enemies to fire at the other guy, I will stay behind the other guy. 80% of encounters happen behind/around corners where you already know someone is behind and it takes way less than 3 seconds to spot them once you go around. for the other 20% of encounters three seconds is usually the time it takes 5 TDs to aim and ruin my tank after which I either spot them because they fired or I'm dead anyway. There were a few occasions where a scout spotted me and I didn't know and then I got hit by artillery but that's so rare that I wouldn't bother getting a skill for it. few enemy tanks will take more than three seconds to aim and fire at me and I usually know roughly where enemies are and where I am in danger. If I decide to take a risk then it's a risk and a three second warning will usually not save me from enemies I will likely spot shortly before they fire at me.
Getting more view range is more useful in case you need to know that enemies far away might see you because then you can spot them right away.
Currently, crew quality is a problem for my tier 3 and 4 (have not bought a 5).
I moved the crew to quickly. Having realized that they were little better then new bought, I stopped with the Marder. The Hetzer crew is all bought 75% (now 80-somethings). I am keeping crews with their current tanks until skills/perks go up. This will take a while to remedy.
I think I am leaning towards Husar's philosophy for the sniper TDs. Up the vision range and accuracy and just assume that movement is a must after 2-3 shots on any game with arty involved.
I like your point about 6th sense for my PZ1c though. I use the PZ1c to race up and annoy while spotting up until I am destroyed OR by racing to a good blind and lurking there while making red dots appear on the arty drivers minimaps. Knowing if I'd been spotted there, with my huge accel, would be a great way to avoid getting crunched.
Other question. Why are some people so enamored of ramming? I have done it while reloading or when I know that my shot alone won't do the trick but that the combo might, and I would certainly do it if I were Winchester, but I see people go full bore for a quarter mile or more for the privilege of doing less damage than they could do with their gun and do more quickly. It makes no sense....Tank ramming occurred, but quite rarely and usually only in desperation.
In an earlier version of the game, the E50 was the ultimate rammer tank. It was relatively heavy and had a 1200Hp engine. It needed space though to get up to top speed - but when it did, it would take out over 700 points of a tank by simply crashing into it full speed. If someone brought a low tier to the game - the E50 could one-ram-kill it. Some of the heavier tanks shouldn't be rammed (Maus, KV3-5 etc) as that will do more damage to you than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Then you have the fact that there is an award for ramming - The kamikaze ribbon which you get for ram-killing a tank one ore more tiers above you.
I guess it is the superiority/mastery feeling of killing you without spending ammo, that attracts those players. :sneaky:
They same sort who play Call of Duty as a knife-fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Ramming is...okay.
I rarely do it myself but others do it for the reasons Sigurd mentioned or because they think their turret is impenetrable when the enemy cannot aim at the hull up close. It's hilarious when IS-3 players expose their weak turret top that way...
It can also hurt the team because it can block friendly players from firing at the enemy. Which may< also be a reason for some people to do it because they want to do the damage/get the kill themselves. Since they sacrifice a lot of precious hitpoints in the process and die soon after instead of letting their allies quickly finish off the enemy, it can be very detrimental to the team because they are unnnecessarily sacrificing a valuable tank in the process.
As for sniper TDs, I'd go with camo first, before firepower as TDs usually have sufficient firepower. Then again my SU-122-54 needs both, it has no armor and the gun isn't exactly accurate either. It relies a lot on friendly tanks spotting and taking the hits, so viewrange is not a priority either. If I have to spot in it myself, I'm already in trouble most likely. May come as a third or fourth skill or so.
I think you overestimate the bonus provided by some of the skills relative to the utilty of Sixth Sense. For example, if you skill your Commander up with Recon then that will give you a mere 2% extra viewrange. In general more viewrange is better, but with such a small increase a blind tank is still blind. Even on a tank with a great viewrange you will gain less than ten meters. How long will it take a tank to cover ten meters? How often does the system "sweep" for spots at long range?Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
The aiming skills tend to be very situation. Smooth Ride, for example, doesn't apply during turns or hull rotation. Snap Shot offers a boost to accuracy when turning the turret but if you are moving the hull at the same time (and you probably are) then is it enough to make a difference? Not IMO. They also apply a bonus to stats which are not easily available so it is becomes difficult to judge whether than actually provide a significant bonus.
Sixth Sense doesn't just tell you that you have been spotted. It also tells you that some one is there. This is of tremendous value if you play to take advantage of it. Further, unless you are at a choke point or just unlucky being spotted is not the same as being aimed at, meaning that unless you are utterly exposed you stand a good chance of minimising any incoming fire that you take when spotted (especially from arty) whereas without it you will just blunder into a hail of fire like in your example.
I should state that aside from Camo, Repair and Sixth Sense I consider most crew skills to be marginal to the point of being useless.
A tier 10 medium with 410m view range can get 471m with Recon, the radio operator skill that gives 3% and improved optics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
When you move out of cover it is important to be able to aim as fast as possible so you can retrat behind cover as fast as possible. If you do it right, you will not turn the hull in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
Whether you pop out of cover or are on the move, either way it pays off to aim a little faster than the enemy because it can mean you hit and he misses. Often you force him to fire quickly because you're about to move into cover again. Not to forget the skills work together with a vertical stabilizer to increase the effect. If you're really lucky, you hit him just a split second before he fires and make him miss and/or destroy a module. For that reason I am also considering the skill that increases the chance to hit modules.
Do you know how far a medium tank can blunder into enemy viewrange at 60km/h in 3 seconds? By the time it notifies you, you are so far out that they can at least fire twice and destroy your tracks before you can manage to reverse behind a rock. Given that I mostly play the Centurion 7/1 and the Leopard Prototype at the moment, armor hardly enters the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
Spring Break here....achtung panzer!
Finally have a crew at 100% on the Marder. Serious difference in performance. Currently doing slow build of crew skills starting with camo for all. Going to combine the marder crew with a loader off the L.Tr (who is also learning camo) to crew a new STG-3 with the long 75.
What gear should I equip and why. Current thoughts are camo net, binoculars, and ventilation; chocolate, 105 gas, and ?
Ideas?
Also building up the skills of a ruski commander and driver in the MS-1. Thoughts on where to go next? I like TDs but also like the looks of the ruski mediums.
I usually only get gear for tanks I want to keep for a while. I think the lowest tank I bought equipment for is on tier 6. Possible that I got a rammer for some premium tank or so but I often found equipment not worth it if it costs more than the tank itself. Except as vanity-spending. ~;)
@Kekvit Irae:
I have been driving the Hetz for a bit now...and it has been long and painful and only rarely rewarding.
At least on the NA server, you spend 75% of your matches as one of the bottom 5 tanks facing opponents with several sixes. You load gold, lurk well, drill the KV-1s from surprise and track him while doing some damage. Popping behind the rock to reload, you smile as your arty hammers him for 30% of his HP. You pop out, fire low on the hull and drill him for 15% more damage. He's half dead....and one shots you. The KV then proceeds to brawl with an intact tier 5 tank, kill it in two shots, and then blithely roll into your base while killing the arty that missed an "open sights" final shot.
THAT has been my experience of the Hetzer. I am a pretty good shot, but it is hard to fight well when your first or second shot gets you killed -- and firing one shot and running gets your team mates killed. Very frustrated. I am almost done though. Another 3k free experience and more crew training and I will have a full camo trained crew to put in a fully equipped Stug3.
I will say, on the few matches where it was t4 and t3 mixed, the Hetzer holds it's own just fine. I just don't find it much better than the Marder at that level, but my Marder seldom if ever has to face a Tier6. For some reason, my Marder stats are way better than the Hetz....
Aye the KV-1 pretty much owns anything if it's top of the tree. I used to have the 57mm on it, that really panics people as they dont expect to get shot every 1.8 seconds. I recently put the 85mm back on it because I kept finding myself up against Tigers and my 57mm pop gun didnt even scratch their paint job.
The Hetzer can be a bit of a bugger to play though. When you get the StuG then you will find that you can take on the KV-1 easily, just dont let him shoot you. :creep:
KV was better in the old days (game wise). There was only the one KV (no KV-1 or KV-2) and it could mount the 152 mm troll gun or the amazing 107mm ZiS pen everything gun. Yeah it was tier V back then with this setup.
Even the PzIV with the 75mm KwK44 L70 gun (Yeah it was also better back then) had nightmares about meeting a KV in a dark alley.
Some decisions made about changing the tank tree was just not good. (KV, PzIV, IS4, KV3)