Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Craterus

vote: gibson

He's been inactive for most of the game but has yet to be killed. This suggests he has an important role, and there was a detective result (is this one questionable too, JimBob/Cow?) that showed him to be mafia.

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Another person who hasn't been paying attention. As I have repeatedly stated, gibson was one of the 'New' Stracchi. He was a wiseguy at the time that Northnovas was killed. He is now the only surviving Stracchi and unable to make any kills by himself. He also happens to be very busy in real life and probably isn't paying any attention to Capo anymore. He needs to be disposed of, but is not a priority IMO.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

This is bizarre.

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Heh, I am clearly accusing CA of being a mafia mole. My statement was just to head off the inevitable counter-argument that it could have been me who was the mole. That same thing was advanced last time this situation came up (with Louis, Husar, and I). I decided to head it off by acknowledging the argument in advance.

Crap, I was starting to like this game :furious3:

Well anyway I´ll post some snippets from the Stracci hideout. Should have read it more thoroughly. I recommend it to anyone, by the way.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...38#post1834038

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Originally Posted by Omanes

I would prefer it if Dutch_guy protected me, although according to my PM I can survive once without protection. A second time, I won't be so lucky.

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Originally Posted by Andres

My pm says that my partcipation at a townies protection group won't have any influence

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Originally Posted by Omanes

According to my PM I can protect or kill like a normal townie, so no problems should occur there.

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1. Don´s can do night actions like townies. But it´s still unclear how a vig kill affects detective results on them.

2. That bit about lucky survivals should be kept in mind too.

2. Mades (and probably Lucas too) can´t effectively protect.

I'm so glad we have people like you (TinCow) to dictate the play. I'll be sure to place my vote on CountArach later...

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Heh, I am clearly accusing CA of being a mafia mole. My statement was just to head off the inevitable counter-argument that it could have been me who was the mole. That same thing was advanced last time this situation came up (with Louis, Husar, and I). I decided to head it off by acknowledging the argument in advance.

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Yup, your defence looking prepared makes it look like you knew the kill would fail.

I don't think we need to hang one of you two immediately. We can just lynch charge and give you guys the time to argue it out.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Hi CountArach,

Are you in a protection group tonight?

Sasaki

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Yes. Why?

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Who was in your group that night?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Yup, your defence looking prepared makes it look like you knew the kill would fail.

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I'm an attorney. It's habit to prepare for the counter-argument before it's even been made.

Tincow. Im wondering how come every time something goes wrong you are appointing fingers to other directions? Also, if you are so visible anti mafia person, how come you havent been attacked even for once? I wonder what the rules say how Vig kill turns out if one member of the party is killed the same night?:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Haudegen

Zitat von Omanes
According to my PM I can protect or kill like a normal townie, so no problems should occur there.

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I distinctly remember Omanes saying that don's couldn't participate in protection or kill groups in the thread. So either he was lying (to protect someone?) or louis doctored the transcript.

vote: Craterus

tally:
Charge: 1 (sasaki)
Craterus: 1 (CR)

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.

A double lynch, though unlikely, is always good for rooting out excess mafiosos. I say we up the votes on Charge and Craterus.

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Also, if you are so visible anti mafia person, how come you havent been attacked even for once?

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Maybe for the same reason the white gloves of Capo I didn't attack Redleg - to cast doubt on his credibility.

CR

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

I wonder what the rules say how Vig kill turns out if one member of the party is killed the same night?:inquisitive:

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Apparently they work, can't say more or I'd break the rules. :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.
CR

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wouldn't he let a less important member of the family do that? :book:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

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CR, i find the funny thing being that you were accused of being mafia earlier in the game..if my memory is correct.

Point being, you are posting early yourself, accusing someone else of being mafia for possibly the same reason you state they are posting early. im not accusing you, but lets try to back up accusations :yes:

As for the Ichigo attack, i dont know why TinCow chose him but it clearly points to someone hiding something. If TinCow is correct, then one of his vig group is working with Ichigo (assuming he is mafia), or was doing more "important" things.

Vote: CA

My vote is liable to change, but as it stands i have some things to do and someone in TinCow's group is guilty.

edit: grammer

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites

Dons can actually kill in vigilante groups while their family is still alive. They can also protect in these groups, although they have no protection value.

e.g. Don, T1 and T2 protect a player, Don is not counted as being involved so the group techincally only has two players in it.

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This is Omanes' claim, I misreported it earlier. Dons can be in vig groups but not in prot groups.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Amusing.

I am sure I will be dead soon, since I doubt I can repeat my magical feat of survival

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So how did you survive? I don't know of any "magical" protection, and when you say "doubt" it makes me doubt that your protection is a result of some "luck" you got as part of your red text. Also, luck isn't magical.

As you well know, every person has at least one red paragraph. I have noticed trends that make me believe my red text is not unique. I believe that beefy187, taka, and Tran had the same text, and possibly others. I think explaining further would violate the rules on red text

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Originally Posted by TinCow

As you well know, every person has at least one red paragraph. I have noticed trends that make me believe my red text is not unique. I believe that beefy187, taka, and Tran had the same text, and possibly others. I think explaining further would violate the rules on red text

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Of course I well know it, I addressed this in my original. Beefy said lucky, you said magical. Why?

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

I was contacted last night by several of the dead Mafiosi who relayed messages from their Dons. Apparently CR infiltrated the Don meetings and by using his pro-account read IP addresses of the different posters. Apparently he found one belonging to BKKB which is the largest ISP in Hordaland. It is the state owned power company and the IP would have been the backbone address. Now… I suspect that CR relayed this information to Jimbob and posed as the FBI agent.
Am I correct?
Yes CR got through the pm checks and got into the meeting hiding as a Don. Apparently he didn’t fail any of the tests showing that he had his hands on a genuine Capo II Don Role pm. He didn’t even stumble on choosing one of the 5 names.

Back to the IP thing. A lot of Norwegians use this ISP and would have the same back bone address. I suspect there are other players from my part of the world in this game?

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I'd like to note that this was posted on 02-23-2008, 12:13

Now, looking over my pm's I see this:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Can you look up member IPs, and would it be alright to do so for this game?

CR

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This was sent to me on 02-19-2008, 20:37

I replied and said it was ok for me to look up IP's to find double accounts because those weren't allowed under org rules. He never replied. So, why was CR asking me about IP's?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Of course I well know it, I addressed this in my original. Beefy said lucky, you said magical. Why?

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I like to use interesting vocabulary.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I like to use interesting vocabulary.

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Ok. What's lucky about wearing an armored shirt compared to having all 4 of your attackers extremely reliable guns not fire?

I think that's a question better directed at Seamus.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I think that's a question better directed at Seamus.

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You're such a lawyer ~:pat:

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<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

All four of the brutally simple and thoroughly reliable weapons failed to fire. The gunmen were stunned – the odds of all four weapons failing to fire defied description! Beefy began to move at last, scrambling to pull open the cellar door to the tappy and make an escape. The gunman cleared the bolts and quickly rammed fresh magazines into their weapons as Beefy opened the hatch and stepped onto the ladder to the cellar.

<<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>> <<click.>>

Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.

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taka was taking his usual drive home – a well lit street that was well patrolled and therefore safe – when his car was boxed in and stopped by several vehicles. In Fatlington, safe is a relative term.

Tommy guns were coming up and starting to hose lead almost as the vehicle ground to a halt. The range was less than ten feet and there was not a chance they would miss. Police were responding in under 30 seconds, sirens blaring and several cars converging on the scene, but in that half minute more than 300 rounds had been emptied from the drum magazines of the tommy guns. The assailant’s cars sped quickly into side streets and were quickly abandoned as the gunmen clear the scene.

To everyone’s surprise, taka stepped out of the vehicle with only one wound – a gouge along one cheekbone no deeper than a bad shaving cut. He was stunned as were the police. taka had worn no armor and the car had been a stock model, yet 354 rounds had failed to take him out.

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Only it wasn’t a body. TinCow had been stunned and had a shallow cut across his neck just below the adam’s apple, but most of the cut had slashed through the thick throat padding of his armor vest rather than through him. He’d only added the bulky throat-piece as an after-thought tonight – normally he went without. By all rights, he should be dead instead of having the next thing to a bad shaving cut. By the slimmest of chances, he’d survived his own death at the hands of a master assassin. He went inside for a drink…make that several.

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On the other hand I think the write up actually does hold your story up after rereading it.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ok. What's lucky about wearing an armored shirt compared to having all 4 of your attackers extremely reliable guns not fire?

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lmao, I love watching you argue TC, you're a darn clever guy :yes: .

vote:craterus again for now, same reason as last time.

select:TC come on he's a lawyer :beam:

oops wrong quote, right one:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I like to use interesting vocabulary.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Who was in your group that night?

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I wasn't in a protection group that night, I just didn't trust you. I stayed at home.

Last night I was involved with the failed effort on Ichigo. I really have no evidence that TinCow was the one who failed to get his PM in - it is entirely possible it was either him or Haudegen (who may well have been killed by a rival mafia family). I received the PM from Seamus saying that the kill was a failure and could forward it to anyone who wants it. That said, it probably isn't a great deal of evidence.

I have however been perusing TinCow's posts and I have found some scummy ones:
Post 2584

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I regret that you are going to be very disappointed, then. I have explained everything as fully as I want to and I have no intentions of giving out more information than I already have. I most certainly will not do it for "the town" to make mafioso like you and Andres feel more comfortable in your graves. Enjoy your naps.

There are a large number of townies who know first-hand that I am reliable and have worked consistently over the last several days and nights to get information where it needs to be and to coordinate the necessary night actions. At this point, I do not feel the need to give any further public explanations for my actions. Doing so will only help the mafia. I will continue to disclose whatever information I feel is necessary for people outside the town network to know, whenever I feel like they need to know it.

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One of the Town's most important things it can do is to share around as much information as it can. This leads to large webs of townies who are all able to work together. TinCow's post clearly shows that he was withholding some information from the town as a whole - something only scum would do.

Post 2487

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I did not have access to the list until after night 5. On night 5, all I was able to do was direct them away from people I knew to be townies, not towards people I knew to be mafia, since I had no conclusive proof about anyone.

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I ask you here - If he had no conclusive proof about anyone, how did he know they were pro-town? Perhaps he had scum-buddies on that list, or he was just trying to make friends?

Post 2480

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I actively encouraged the Stracchis to hit Craterus, because I believe he is a Don. I also actively encouraged them to hit Sasaki, because I've gotten bad vibes from him for a while now. However, I became a lot less clear about Sasaki recently, and for that reason he was specifically warned about that he was going to be hit on N7. Brave_Sir_Robin was never at risk, because I knew that the third person the Stracchi's were trying to get to help with that hit would not cooperate with them.

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he says he is suspicious of Craterus and Sasaki with no evidence he is willing to come forward with to back it up. I am not defending either of these two, I am just saying that *if* they were mafia, TinCow would have to have access to some sort of alternative detective results, ie - Made detective results.

The next point is played out over a couple of posts:
Post 15
He selects GH as Director.
Post 2439
He admits that he was very keen to keep GH alive.

Now from the Night 6 Summary we know that GH was a wise guy with unknown levels of activity. However, I believe that Seamus was giving us a hint about GH's loyalties in the second sentence:

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Originally Posted by Seamus

GeneralHankerchief and x-dANGEr were both criminals – WiseGuys – though we can’t really be sure how active either one was. Moros too registered as a Wiseguy with our sources, but there was something fishy there as well.

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So perhaps the "as well" could be read as a sign of GH's guilt? So why was TinCow so eager to save him and see him elected as a Director? Perhaps GH was recruited really early into his family or TinCow was trying to form another family earlier with him at the top. Could GH or TinCow explain this to us?

I can't be bothered to do any more digging at this point - I have to get ready to go out today.

Oh yeah...

Vote: TinCow

Elite Ferret i laugh at you...you obviously either dont pay attention to the game or have some secret role. The only reason you are posting is because you dont want to get WoGed.

Its clear you dont know what is going on, selection was the other day, and JimBob is director again. My assumption is that you clicked the "last page" tag in the gameroom, saw Craterus and CA at up for voting, and then voted just so everyone thinks your still active.

Dont mean to use it against you, but through all the days you are inactive (no posting) you have still been posting in the Glory of Rome thread...how come? Are you trying to "stay in the shade?"

TinCow and Sasaki...i dont know why you are both argueing...i have the reason to believe you are both pro-town. Sasaki has organised plenty of protection groups which have gone just fine, leading me to believe he is pro-town. On the other hand, TinCow has been leading the offensive against mafia with his vig groups. If you look, all his targets had reasonable suspicion against them.

My overall point is there are only a few who actually are active in the thread. Others, like Elite, wait until an oppurtune time to pop in a vote and then fade back into the shadows. JimBob, if that detective is truly a trustworthy source, thenask him (or this is asking him) to investigate the "shadowy" players..they obviously are hiding leading me to believe they have something to hide from.


unvote:CA
Vote:Elite Ferret

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I wasn't in a protection group that night, I just didn't trust you. I stayed at home.

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Looks bad for you.

I'd explain, but I'd like to see TinCow try to do it in a way that other people will perceive as scummy and thus get him in even hotter water.

Yes, I am WIFOMing. Make what you want out of the above.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Select: GeneralHankerchief

I have known GeneralHankerchief for many years. He has been a good friend and neighbor. I know he will do what is best for this town.

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What's up with this post?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Draco Leman

Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.

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Originally Posted by Draco Leman

And my sword just recoiled from the blow on Sasaki's impregenable armor of reasoning and hit me in the face.

That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy.:shame:

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These two posts are all Draco has posted in the thread. From back on page 8 or so. He's never voted.

This is the list of inactives posted a little while ago:

FoS:
Alexander the pretty good
Big King Sanctaphrax
Draco Leman
Leet Eriksson
gibsonsg

Alexander and BKS got WoG'd. Leet has been in some prot groups supposedly. Gibsong is mafia. So Draco, what have you been doing at night that has saved you from the axe?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I replied and said it was ok for me to look up IP's to find double accounts because those weren't allowed under org rules. He never replied. So, why was CR asking me about IP's?

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I would like to see the coals stoked on this one... the embers are dying.

So you didn't infiltrate the Don meeting CR and you don't have a pro account on quicktopic. I am fairly sure you mentioned something about having a pro account a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Craterus

vote: gibson

He's been inactive for most of the game but has yet to be killed. This suggests he has an important role, and there was a detective result (is this one questionable too, JimBob/Cow?) that showed him to be mafia.

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Link?

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

I would like to see the coals stoked on this one... the embers are dying.

So you didn't infiltrate the Don meeting CR and you don't have a pro account on quicktopic. I am fairly sure you mentioned something about having a pro account a long time ago.

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Search doesn't find anything.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Craterus, suspected Don, with his vote for Gibson, leads one to believe he's involved with Ichigo and CA.

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How?

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Exactly as a don in one of the Godfather mafia games did, he's posting early after the night summary trying to start a run on gibson.

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Irrelevant. Day phases start fairly awkwardly for me (GMT). It's late now and sometimes they finish before I get back from college. So, it's either an early vote or none at all and who knows what you'd make of inactivity. Very little, I gather, from the way the lurkers have slipped under the radar this game.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

tally:
Charge: 1 (sasaki)
Craterus: 1 (CR)

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Did you deliberately ignore my vote? The one upon which your entire accusation rests? ~:rolleyes:

With this post, Capo de Tutti Capi - II (without sign-ups, rules, etc.) has exceeded the entirety of Capo de Tutti Capi - I.

:birthday2: :belly: :verycool:

I now return you to TinCow's post.
-- sf

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Originally Posted by CountArach

One of the Town's most important things it can do is to share around as much information as it can. This leads to large webs of townies who are all able to work together. TinCow's post clearly shows that he was withholding some information from the town as a whole - something only scum would do.

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Yes, only scum would withhold things like the identities of multiple detectives. It would be of vital town importance to have this information known to everyone. :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by CountArach

I ask you here - If he had no conclusive proof about anyone, how did he know they were pro-town? Perhaps he had scum-buddies on that list, or he was just trying to make friends?

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I knew the identities of a large number of people working in protection and vigilante groups. I did not trust all of them, but most seemed reliable. While in retrospect I seem to have misjudged a few people, my decision was to stop the Stracchi from targeting the people in these groups. These are the people I referred to as "pro-town" in the referenced post.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

he says he is suspicious of Craterus and Sasaki with no evidence he is willing to come forward with to back it up. I am not defending either of these two, I am just saying that *if* they were mafia, TinCow would have to have access to some sort of alternative detective results, ie - Made detective results.

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I have access to detective results from 4 separate detectives. Of course, because I am scum, I cannot reveal their names.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

So perhaps the "as well" could be read as a sign of GH's guilt? So why was TinCow so eager to save him and see him elected as a Director? Perhaps GH was recruited really early into his family or TinCow was trying to form another family earlier with him at the top. Could GH or TinCow explain this to us?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

What's up with this post?

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Both of these were fully explained here several days ago.

@Caius: You asked for a link but I'm too lazy to search back through the thread. But if you look at TinCow's post at the top of the last page, you'll see he addresses my post and says that gibson is a minor threat and the only Stracchi remaining.

Vote: Charge

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Both of these were fully explained here several days ago.

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I was curious about that post because it's the 15th post in the thread. It's surprising that you were already working with GH there, and that you refer to him being your friend for many years (while seemingly in character).

Craterus - you were also protected by an unknown character. Why was that? What reason did a doctor have to protect you?

If you have a role you could reveal it and be at less danger since there's a doctor who likes you - if you're town.

Otherwise you're mafia.

CR

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I was curious about that post because it's the 15th post in the thread. It's surprising that you were already working with GH there, and that you refer to him being your friend for many years (while seemingly in character).

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I wasn't working with him yet, but we've been playing KOTR together for the last 15 months. I just voted for someone I knew. You'll note that Northnovas and gibson are also long-time KOTR players. That's how the group first came together.

Guess, everything I'll say "will be used against me" right?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Search doesn't find anything.

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He has over 5000 posts to his name...

And they are both getting off the hook just because I seemingly had a mafia role.
Why aren't the town doing anything about this?

Oh.. wait the mafia is leading the town around by its nose.
Go town :2thumbsup:. You are really doing a great job.

Whatever you do, do not vote TinCow or CR.

You 'seemingly' had a role?

Good sir, you stretch the bounds of the English language and I shall not stand idly by while you abuse it so!

A known mafia, Andres, warned people not to vote for you before you 'revealed'. You killed those who were pro-town.

No one should heed you.

Crazed Rabbit

CR, you must not have read Sigurd's previous posts. He made it perfectly clear that he wasn't working for the mafia.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

I am not a Don, but I have worked for the mafia. I have been contacted several times by Capo II’s version of the Wolf. This wolf has put me in contact with the most powerful Dons. They are allowed to call in favours in the form of hits. I am the Hitman. I killed w&f, Louis and lastly tried to kill TinCow. They were all orders from the mafia Dons. My win conditions will be a result of how many points I am able to gain from these killings.

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See? No mafia involvement at all.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Good sir, you stretch the bounds of the English language and I shall not stand idly by while you abuse it so!

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This coming from the guy who brought us mafia/Mafia:laugh4:

CR, your throwing around a lot of blame...to hide any suspicion against you maybe? In the past two pages you have accused everyone who has spoken out against you...

and about elite ferret a page back, him noy replying further explains hes hiding for some reason.

I think, Sigurd, the Mafia are leading each other around by the nose.

Because the township is not participating actively in the discussion, days have simply become a matter of groups of up to five people all pointing the finger at one another.

Hence the reason why nobody is listening to anybody - because they aren't trying to find the right end to this game, they are trying to push their end for this game.

JIMBOB! Come on Herr Director! Introduce cohesion and objective to all of this before it degenerates any further!

DISCUSS! ACTUALLY DISCUSS!

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

CR, your throwing around a lot of blame...to hide any suspicion against you maybe? In the past two pages you have accused everyone who has spoken out against you...

and about elite ferret a page back, him noy replying further explains hes hiding for some reason.

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I throw blame where blame needs be thrown. Is Craterus not suspicious?

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This coming from the guy who brought us mafia/Mafia

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We must always respect the delicacies and intricacies of language.

:beam:

CR

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Originally Posted by Glenn

I think, Sigurd, the Mafia are leading each other around by the nose.

Because the township is not participating actively in the discussion, days have simply become a matter of groups of up to five people all pointing the finger at one another.

Hence the reason why nobody is listening to anybody - because they aren't trying to find the right end to this game, they are trying to push their end for this game.

JIMBOB! Come on Herr Director! Introduce cohesion and objective to all of this before it degenerates any further!

DISCUSS! ACTUALLY DISCUSS!

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If you want discussion provide it yourself, or PM around the Townies. Don't just talk, take action.

Current Tally:
Charge - 2 (Sasaki, Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Craterus - 2 (CR, EliteFerret)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)
TinCow - 1 (CA)

I also have another question for TinCow:

Quote:

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Clearly, one of the three of us did not show up. Since Haudegen was himself targeted for a hit, it seems blatantly obvious that he was not the person at fault. Therefore either CountArach or I are lying about participating in the hit, clearly in collusion with the Rose mafia family. This also suggests that Ichigo is from the Rose mafia family.

---

The leap you take with your logic here is amazing. First you say that Haudegen is innocent because he was targeted for a hit from a Mafia family, while conveniently ignoring that there are in fact multiple families, so simply being targeted means nothing at all.

And then you assume that just because he was targeted, I must be guilty? It really does seem like you have fabricated this whole thing without thinking it through. Then you assume that I must be working with Ichigo because he didn't die? I really just don't follow the logic there. It seems to me like this (Correct me if I am wrong):
Haudegen Attacked = Haudegen Innocent = Arach Guilty = Arach Killing Haudegen

I just don't follow...

I believe Crazed Rabbit to be a Don

I posted last page how he asked me about getting member IP's before sigurd had accused him of getting the IP from a mafia don chatboard. So I exchanged some pm's with him. See for yourself:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Sasaki,
Through IP tracking I found the person identifying themselves as Don Corleone lived Norway.

Sigurd lives there. Barring any other Norwegians in the game, he seemed the likely suspect.

At the time, it was important to keep that info secret. It remains almost as important now, though obviously it has been mentioned in the thread.

If you have further questions, please ask them via PM and not in the thread.

CR

---

*some pm's where I expressed mistrust and he asked why he should trust me left out here*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Well, the third possibility is I use Proletariat's Don Pm from Capo I to communicate in such a way that is not a 'one trick pony' but also means I am not a don.
But for the love of pete, do not repeat the above information. It can be of no use except to assure you or enlighten the mafia. I know you understand the importance of keeping it under wraps.

It is my hope that by providing this info you will be able to quell your suspicions.

Tincow has more reason than that to trust me, and I have more reason to trust him.

Again, if you have questions, feel free to PM me.

CR

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ok...but what did you answer to these questions:

"1. Your family name – there should only be one of each.
2. The codeword in parenthesis in the first section (Victory conditions)
3. The third word in the first section (Victory conditions)
4. Quote sentence no.1 in paragraph A (General) from the section; Powers & Responsibilities."

Proles pm from last game has the same format and sections apparently? I can see how you slipped by with number one since only one family had responded.

Sasaki

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

The PM wasn't exactly the same, and I had to make educated guesses as to what was what. You're right about the family name and little response to the email.

CR

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I was asking you what your guesses were.

Sasaki

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

That I'll keep to myself. Suffice to say it was along the lines of what you'd expect for the victory conditions of a Don - kill off the other dons and enough townies, etc., etc.

CR

---

I find this to completely unbelievable. I can only assume that he was hoping I couldn't get a copy of the don pm from capo 1. However it was posted in the thread.

First, it should be obvious to anyone that's played both games that the format has changed drastically.

Cap I townie pm:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Your Role: Townie

Your basic mode for success is to vote to lynch Mafiosi, eventually removing the mafia threat from Fatlington and creating a town win.

Role Changing:

At your discretion, however, this role can change. This will take time, effort, and coordination with other townies. If you:

Combine with 3 other townies you can attempt to kill one target per night (after two successful kills, you will become a “Wise Guy” and can progress from there).

Combine with 2 other townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of you may become a “Doctor “ and can progress from there).

Creating these combinations is up to you however, and you will have to work out your own deals/contracts/arrangements for forming such a combo with the other players.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” “Protect so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…” or “kill so-and-so in combination with player 1, player 2…”

Warning: if the requisite number of townies is NOT available, the protection/kill effort will almost certainly fail. If a townie attempts a kill/protection solo, the effort will certainly fail, and there will be at least one chance in three that the townie will perish in the attempt.

Investigations:

It is most probable that, if investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” (5-10%) if investigated by a detective. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.

Getting Recruited:

What if a Mafioso seeks to recruit you? You can respond as you wish to such an offer. However, if they believe you to be a Wise Guy and use you as part of a kill team, that team will very likely fail unless you are an “extra” and they already have sufficient killers on the team.

---

Capo II townie pm:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Role

Townie


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Townies have no special role-related qualities at the outset of the game – you are the “salt of the earth” of Fatlington.

2. Here is where information as to any whacky individual characteristics will go. They will NOT be for sharing with any other player, but may provide you some advantage. ANY information in RED on your rolesheets is to be held in strict confidence and NOT shared in any manner during the game without the express prior consent of the Game host. You have been warned. Save it for your post-game write up.
B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 3 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (4 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 4 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 or 3 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a kill, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

2. After two such successful kills, you may elect to continue the game as a Wiseguy, or you may remain a Townie. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

3. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

4. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly) to continue the game as a Doctor. If refused, the opportunity will be passed to another member of that group. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

5. If you: a) choose to continue in a protection group without becoming a doctor, b) have never participated in a killing, and c) you participate in a two additional saves, you will be offered the opportunity to become a Detective for the remainder of the Game. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

D. Investigations:

1. If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is most probable that you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” if investigated by a detective. These 20% minorities will not be the same for both categories. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.


Role Changing

As noted above under night actions, it is possible for you to change roles. Once you change roles from Townie to WiseGuy, Doctor or Detective, however, you may not reverse the decision – you have made a permanent change. You may progress into other roles from there as appropriate to your new role.

---

Now, the Don pm from last game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Your Role: Don Corleone

You are the boss of a crime family, and your goal is to take over Fatlington and become the Capo de Tutti Capi (Captain of Captains). To do this, you will need to eliminate all of the other Dons and establish a crime family that outnumbers the remaining Mafiosi and citizens of the town.

Powers and Limitations:

Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.

You will almost always appear innocent in investigations because, normally, the Don makes no moves him/herself – that’s what your family members are for!

You will choose some “signature” component that will feature in all of your family’s killings. This may be a consistent method, a symbol or calling card, or some other distinctive characteristic – but it must be used in each killing without exception. You must notify me of this characteristic with your first nighttime PM.

If you have no other family members left, you may perform one of the following once per night: a) attempt to kill one target, or b) attempt to investigate two other citizens. Your investigation will parallel those of a made and help you identify further possible recruits.

You, and only you from your family, are aware of a special “friend” of the Mafiosi of Fatlington – The Wolf. Though not a member of your family, this person can provide unusually effective protection once in a while making it easier for your Family to achieve success and harder for detectives to track you. This is not without a price however, as you then owe The Wolf a favor which he/she can collect when they see fit and which you MUST honor, unless it would involve attacking a member of your own family.

PM’s:

Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:

“Get some sleep” OR if solo “kill so-and-so” or “investigate so and so”

Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing.

Corleone Luca = GeneralHankerchief

Corleone Made = Major Robert Dump

The Wolf = Sasaki Kojiro

---

Now, here's the list of test questions again:

Quote:

---

The meeting of the Dons will be on an external forum where new accounts will be made, one for each Don (the dons register via a link provided).
Send an email using a fresh account, like the one provided above, with answers to these questions where the answers will only be found in the non red sections of your role pm:

1. Your family name – there should only be one of each.
2. The codeword in parenthesis in the first section (Victory conditions)
3. The third word in the first section (Victory conditions)
4. Quote sentence no.1 in paragraph A (General) from the section; Powers & Responsibilities.

If you are not able to answer these questions you will not receive an invitation.
The questions are a precoution against any claimants not being a real Don...

I hope to hear from you...

---

Family name can be a lucky guess, I give him a pass on that. But in the old don pm there are three words in the parentheses. If you compare the "victory condition" sections from the old and new townie pm's you'll see how much they've changed. The third word is almost certainly different as well. And finally number four involves quoting an entire sentence. From the section that probably lists the dons abilities that have changed since last game.

It looks to me like CR is a don and either set up the original meeting or responded to the other don. Then he got the IP and thought sigurd was a don. Obviously he couldn't just post this in the thread so he talked Jimbob into pretending it was an FBI result. He's been hounding Sigurd since then and trying to make it look like he didn't do anything with IP's. He repeatedly asks me to keep the conversation out of the thread. He must be a don.

Unvote:Charge
Vote:Crazed Rabbit

Okay, question for you Sasaki - why would I want to kill the hitman if I was a Don?

:dizzy2:

CR

You don't have a pro account CR - a lie!!
You never infiltrated the Don meeting - a lie!!

Caught in lies CR makes you scum.
Not only that... you have infiltrated the pro-town camp and wispered sweet words in the ears of JimBob and probably TinCow as well.

I am satisfied. The FBI results were nothing but slander from a Don afraid of getting his family wiped out by the unpartial hitman... Justice come to those who betray.

The ones I killed were not the best sons of the town:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seamus

[...]
The other WiseGuy who died was woad&fangs, and there is some evidence that he was involved in the killings – probably trying to work his way into a crime family.
[...]
While Louis VI was a criminal who’d been involved in some of the Stracci murders – no surprise there I guess.
[...]

---

I wonder how many townies you have killed?

Well, that convinces me.

Unvote: TinCow
Vote: CR


Current Tally:
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Gibsong - 1 (Craterus)
Craterus - 2 (CR, EliteFerret)
Elite Ferret - 1 (TP)
CR - 2 (Sasaki, CA)

Two things I'd like to add:

1. Prole said she does not remember sending her PM to CR back then, maybe she just forgot but maybe she didn't
2. He says Don PM all the time so from previous experience(mafia/Mafia) my guess is that he'd call prole's old PM a Donna PM or something like that. :dizzy2:

Sigurd also has a good point, despite the many indications that Louis was actually pro-town, but there are quite a few reasonsfor a Don to kill the Hitman somehow if that Hitman also gets contracts from other Dons. Whether the Hitman could have turned pro-town as has been brought up depends on whether he could ignore contracts and kill on his own but I guess he might have gotten less/no points for his victory if it was possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CountArach

Vote: CR

---

Are you guys really going to lynch the FBI detective?

Vote:Crazed Rabbit

Select:Jimbob

If voting closes before 1800 I cannot participate in the rest of the day. I do not think Tincow is scummy though I think all his actions are clearly pro-town. I am also wondering if the hit on ichigo failed cos haudegan was killed first?

How does that work out?

Joe

Oh my dear lord. You are making a big mistake Sasaki.

Vote: Craterus

I do not believe that Craterus has any conclusive evidence against him yet, but I can't let CR be hanged and Craterus is the closest competitior. Beware townies. You are letting taunts by dead mafioso and paranoia lead you in the wrong direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Are you guys really going to lynch the FBI detective?

---

Yes.

If he really is the FBI detective then I'll be so blunt as to say he messed up somehow. :dizzy2:
And I'm not saying I never messed up, it happens and sometimes you get lynched for it. Other times you're just guilty and are rightfully lynched for it. ~D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

Beware townies. You are letting taunts by dead mafioso and paranoia lead you in the wrong direction.

---

Well, the only thing you have to do is posting (a piece of) the detective role pm, off course leaving the name out of it. You must have such a role pm, how else could you possible have checked the role claim of those pretending to be detectives?

Then we can ordeal for ourselves if the detectives who are giving you, CR and Jimbob their results are what they pretend to be.

Also, TinCow, after we are sure that you, Jimbob and/or CR are indeed in contact with real detectives, I suggest both you and CR do not participate in any night actions and you let yourselves investigated by those detectives the first coming night.

Jimbob, the only truly confirmed pro-town player thus far (can't believe some of you are even considering to select somebody else as director), can post those results the next day and then we'll see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Jimbob, the only truly confirmed pro-town player thus far (can't believe some of you are even considering to select somebody else as director), can post those results the next day and then we'll see.

---

Well, JimBob doesn't seem to be here and there are people I trust a bit more anyway. Why was he confirmed pro-town again? Glenn got an innocent result or what was it? :inquisitive:

It's also astounding how anyone is supposed to consider the opinion of Andres, the only truly, self-confirmed pro-mafia player. ~;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

It's also astounding how anyone is supposed to consider the opinion of Andres, the only truly, self-confirmed pro-mafia player. ~;p

---

So, if I give decent pro-town advice, you are going to ignore it?

Tsk, tsk, tsk :no:

This seals it for me.

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

We're supposed to believe that Crazed Rabbit infiltrated the Don meeting by using my old Donna PM. I'm pretty certain I never sent it to him, it's obviously a very different Don(na) PM now, and it was in the CDTC1 thread anyway.

So Crazed Rabbit pulled this off, then guessed a family name to impersonate, and uhm that exact family never showed up to the Don meeting. It doesn't add up.

Crazed, you're either a Don or an FBI Agent who might as well be lynched because no one can believe you now anyway.

With the evidence seen before, il vote: CR. How can you infiltrate a Don meeting without a Don pm?

I will Vote: Craterus for now because I'm not yet ready to believe that CR is guilty. He has been working with Tincow and JimBob for quite some time and due to their efforts in eliminating mafia scum I believe them to be pro-town. However, I think it would be helpful to know what kind of role, if any, CR has. If he has an important one there are plenty of doctors available. I can't recall if he has made a claim to any role previously.

First of all, I want to say that this game is brilliant. Kudos to Seamus. I am really enjoying this. Maybe I'm just sadistic, but these kinds of situations are immensely enjoyable. I'm definitely in for Capo III. :2thumbsup:

Now, I really do believe that CR is innocent, so I am going to do my best to defend him. Since it's already obvious that he claims to be the FBI Detective, I will do my best to produce the evidence I have that will prove that. If any of this evidence convinces people, I would like to humbly request that some Doctor/Surgeon out there protect him in the future, since he will be extremely vulnerable if he survives this lynch vote.

Exhibit A:

Partial Role PM CR sent to JimBob and I a week ago. Clearly most of it is missing due to 'red' text. Since this is my first mafia game, the PM is meaningless to me, since I wouldn't know a real FBI role PM if it hit me in the face. Others may be able to verify or refute its validity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Tincow and JimBob,
Since people in the thread are asking of how sure you can be of the FBI agent, let me help. As you probably already know, I am the FBI agent.

Quote:

---

Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

---

Just wanted to let you fellows be 100% sure of that.

Please don't tell anyone, even for the townies, I am the FBI detective. Also, I may need protection tonight.

CR

---

More exhibits will follow, after I go get some coffee. :coffeenews:

NVM.

Exhibit B:

Excerpt from a PM from Dutch_guy when he was about to get lynched:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Also, I have been in contact with Crazed Rabbit, who seems eager to get a hold of my role PM. He has dogged multiple questions concerning his allegiance, so I'm guessing he's not pro town. His reason for getting a hold of my role PM was, in his own words, to track down Glenn's killer. Not buying that. But perhaps we can use this situation to our advantage. I could ask for something in return, but I have yet to figure out what exactly I should ask.

---

As we all know, Dutch_guy was the Stracchi Luca. If CR was a Don, he would already have access to a Luca PM. Why would he need Dutch_guy's?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

First of all, I want to say that this game is brilliant. Kudos to Seamus. I am really enjoying this. Maybe I'm just sadistic, but these kinds of situations are immensely enjoyable. I'm definitely in for Capo III. :2thumbsup:

Now, I really do believe that CR is innocent, so I am going to do my best to defend him. Since it's already obvious that he claims to be the FBI Detective, I will do my best to produce the evidence I have that will prove that. If any of this evidence convinces people, I would like to humbly request that some Doctor/Surgeon out there protect him in the future, since he will be extremely vulnerable if he survives this lynch vote.

Exhibit A:

Partial Role PM CR sent to JimBob and I a week ago. Clearly most of it is missing due to 'red' text. Since this is my first mafia game, the PM is meaningless to me, since I wouldn't know a real FBI role PM if it hit me in the face. Others may be able to verify or refute its validity.



More exhibits will follow, after I go get some coffee. :coffeenews:

---

ROFL will your next exhibit include more than the victory conditions from the townie pm Seamus posted and the word FBI detective added?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seamus

Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

---

Gah! :wall: Can't find my detective PM anymore in my inbox... big mistake.

Aw well.

Hmm. Mayakane... the victory condition stuff could very well be correct. Sounds very familiar.

Tincow. Your post doesnt give any explanation still, how CR was supposed to infiltrate Don meeting without the Don pm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drisos

Gah! :wall: Can't find my detective PM anymore in my inbox... big mistake.

---

Not that it would have been of any use, since you're dead...

Exhibit C:

The PM that started this whole Sigurd situation:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Tincow and Jimbob,

The following is of top secrecy, and must not be spoken of or hinted at to any other people.

As you know, I was woefully misinformed earlier on the identity of Don Corleone.

I emailed the anonymous don email and recieved a reply.

From that reply, I checked the headings and found the originating IP. I checked that IP and found it belonging to an organization in Amsterdam. And so I assumed the sender was from Amsterdam.

But I was wrong. And so I rechecked, and followed the IP address further - and it lead to BaneTele AS, the state broadband company of Norway.

And so I checked every member in the game and found only one to be confirmed from Norway - Sigurd Fafnesbane. There are other reasons to believe he's don - his manner in this game, his vote to hang hannibalarc instead of Tiberius, made of the Corleone family.

There were some others I couldn't pin down - gibsonsg91921, Joe Monks, johnhughthom (who's only vote once as an abstain, and posted about twice, which makes you wonder how he's still alive. If this continues and he doesn't get WoG'd he must be checked out) - but I don't think they are norwegian.

I believe there is an 85% chance Sigurd is Don Corleone. There are some other possibilities - a Norwegian communicating on behalf of the don, but even then, Sigurd is likely to be part of the Corleone family.

Thoughts on this?

Please remember this is of the utmost secrecy.

If we decide Sigurd is likely Don, and to go after him in the day phase as a lynch, one of you (Jimbob?) should post in the thread that you received results from the FBI detective, who investigated Sigurd twice and got the result that he was the Don. I can give you a believable result from Seamus, and assure you that no one else will (truthfully) claim the role. And if they do, we know they're mafia scum.

That leaves us some choices for the day phase if we decide Sigurd is the Don. I also know Makayane is a Tataglia killer, as well. Double lynches are fraught with peril for the town. But if we avoid the stupidness of getting someone like xdeathfire on the list, and make it between someone like DG and Don Corleone, or between Mak and Don C, then we could perhaps learn something about who else is in each respective family, even if we don't get a double lynch.

I'm going to investigate little grizzly and Norwegian nerd, I think.

Crazed Rabbit

PS - I confirmed CA as a pro-town role and got Husar to put a protection group on him.

---

Please pay particular emphasis to the section I underlined. CR has a good point here. If he is not the real FBI Detective, where is the real FBI detective? Surely someone somewhere knows who he or she is? Will someone step forward and claim this?

It is not without a bit of irony that I note CR's validation of CA (who I have recently accused) in the postscript. However, CR was looking into CA for a while before this, it was not a new situation. CR certainly could have been duped.

Exhibit D:

A PM that followed shortly afterwards in the ensuing conversation:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

I didn't have time to explain it last night, but here's why we can't talk about the IP thing (yet, anyways).

I did manage to sneak into the anonymous Don chat area.

But if we use this evidence now, they'll get scared, arange a new meeting place, and I'll lose that info.

For example, I know the Corleones are sending a 'hitman' after Louis, to kill him and make it look like the serial killer.*

To use this info someone must simply send another email to the don hotmail account [ don1_capodetutticapi@hotmail.com ], and get a reply. I don't have time - I've got class in 15 minutes, and exam 2 hrs 15 minutes from now which I need to prepare more for.

On the up side, I am now 100% sure it's Sigurd.

CR

*this claim should be examined later - maybe the Corleones are friends with the serial killer?

---

The evidence clearly shows that the Hitman really did kill Louis immediately after this was sent. If CR was a Don, he would have known right then and there that Sigurd was the Hitman. Why would he disclose the information about the Hitman going after Louis, and then FoS the Hitman?

Also, this is the explanation on why we kept the information secret: it was hoped that CR could get more useful information out of the 'Don group.' As it turns out, they somehow figured out he was a mole and cut off the flow of information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Tincow. Your post doesnt give any explanation still, how CR was supposed to infiltrate Don meeting without the Don pm.

---

True. At that I can only speculate, and I believe my speculation would do a disservice to everyone. I can think of plausible answers for all of them, but if CR is a Don, that would just give him an easy way out by saying that I am right. Therefore I will leave that answer up to CR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

As we all know, Dutch_guy was the Stracchi Luca. If CR was a Don, he would already have access to a Luca PM. Why would he need Dutch_guy's?

---

Did CR knew that you were in contact with the Stracci's?


EDIT: also, it would be nice if CR posted a link to that particular quicktopic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Did CR knew that you were in contact with the Stracci's?

---

Not at that point, no. At that point only JimBob and I knew. I informed CR just prior to the night when we hit Northnovas and Tran.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

Not at that point, no. At that point only JimBob and I knew. I informed CR just prior to the night when we hit Northnovas and Tran.

---

Any particular reason for excluding CR from your network for so long?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Any particular reason for excluding CR from your network for so long?

---

The only thing he was excluded from was the fact that I was relaying information from the Stracchis. Only JimBob knew about that. CR was involved in everything else. It was actually JimBob who at first convinced me that CR was trustworthy. I didn't trust anyone but JimBob for a long time, so I did not want my information going beyond him. Eventually the totality of the evidence I saw convinced me of CR's role, so I came clean to him so that he could help us organize the final (successful) lynching of Dutch_guy, followed by the simultaneous hits on Northnovas and Tran.

Now, Makanyane may be scum, just like me, but she makes a valid point about the part of CR's "FBI Detective role pm":

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CR's "role pm"

Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

---

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seamus in the rules thread

Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

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I have difficulties to believe TinCow when he says that he believed CR's "reveal" to be genuine.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

The only thing he was excluded from was the fact that I was relaying information from the Stracchis. Only JimBob knew about that. CR was involved in everything else. It was actually JimBob who at first convinced me that CR was trustworthy. I didn't trust anyone but JimBob for a long time, so I did not want my information going beyond him. Eventually the totality of the evidence I saw convinced me of CR's role, so I came clean to him so that he could help us organize the final (successful) lynching of Dutch_guy, followed by the simultaneous hits on Northnovas and Tran.

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So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

Isn't that an odd action for a self declared pro-town player?

TinCow, your evidence is "He said so"???

Please check my exhibit A and don't be so trusting. No I was not the rogue detective that game.

Your exhibit A is a a piece that is identical to the townie pm with a bit at the top that says fbi.

Your exhibit B is evidence that CR tried to get the luca pm. Pretty meaningless and wifom. He can't tell you guys he already had the luca pm so if he wanted it he had to acquire it from somewhere. It's also possible his luca is dead and had never sent it to him.

For Exhibit C, there's no reason for the fbi detective to reveal himself in the thread just yet.

Exhibit D, I don't even see what your arguing here.


And you don't even try to explain the biggest thing, which is that there is no way CR could have infiltrated the meeting using the old pm.

I also think it's hilarious that he confirms CountArach as a protown role.

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Originally Posted by Andres

So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

Isn't that an odd action for a self declared pro-town player?

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I had to supply you with enough townie 'inside' information to convince you I was on your side. It was a calculated risk and it paid off. Certainly, some of that information could have been used against the town, but if I didn't give you enough information, you would have suspected I was hiding something from you (as you openly did the one time I failed to give you the names of the protection/vigilante group participants). Criticize me all you want, but my method worked and the Stracchis are now all but extinct.

I am the FBI Agent:

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Role

Special Agent (Detective), Federal Bureau of Investigations


Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Your identity is hidden for your safety, as are the identities of the other detectives.
Should you reveal your role, be aware that it will make you a high priority target for the mafia.

2. You may not join a townie “vigilante” group.

B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt. You cannot conduct investigations while protecting someone.

2. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly, but not you) to continue the game as a Doctor.

3. Each night phase that you are not involved in protecting someone, you can conduct two investigations. Working with the FBI resources, your investigations are slower, but provide better information.

D. Investigations:

1. If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is virtually certain that you will be discovered as “innocent.”

2. When conducting an investigation, remember that “innocents” include Townies, Doctors, Detectives, the FBI Detective and Dons, that “Criminal” includes some Townies as well as WiseGuys, Made Gangsters, and Lucas. “Guilty” includes Mades and Wise Guys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has ever been involved in a killing. Your results also include some chance (1 in 6, 1 in 36 for Dons) to determine that player’s role. Subsequent investigations of the same person are possible and will give you a 3 in 6 chance to learn their role (1 in 6 for Dons), and a smaller chance (1 in 6, 1 in 36 for Dons) to learn details of some of their actions during the game. The results of your investigations will be provided to you near the beginning of the 2nd day phase following your investigations.


Role Changing

You may not change roles.

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Red areas eliminated.

Thanks a lot, Sasaki.

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And you don't even try to explain the biggest thing, which is that there is no way CR could have infiltrated the meeting using the old pm.

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Please do stop attacking me based on your ignorance of the situation.

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So, you happily forwarded a top secret pm from a player who might have been a detective (but you were not 100 % certain about that, but the possibility was certainly there) to people who were confirmed mafia scum (that you were 100 % certain of).

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:inquisitive:

Investigations to be posted shortly.

CR