Futuramafia [Concluded]

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Ah screw it, tone is all I have at this point, and tonewise Pizza is innocent. Vote: Murska because I still don't like his behaviour towards the Monty wagon yesterday. Still worry tha I'm just jumping on the scummiest townie that a mafia Pizza found, but whatever, I'm past caring at this point. The game is probably already lost.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Ah screw it, tone is all I have at this point, and tonewise Pizza is innocent. Vote: Murska because I still don't like his behaviour towards the Monty wagon yesterday. Still worry tha I'm just jumping on the scummiest townie that a mafia Pizza found, but whatever, I'm past caring at this point. The game is probably already lost.

So you are going to sheep Pizza again?
i am not able understand your thinking here. It almost seems like you are wolfing openly...

It has nothing to do with Pizza's read on him, and everything to do with Murska's behaviour yesterday.

Originally Posted by Riedquat:
Hold on! There is still time, don't give up! If we get this lynch right, high chances town wins the game, the math about the right lynches left is not completely accurate. :)

-------
Can anybody explain to me, Winston's role? And why the scum needs a tracker? I'm not trying to defend Pizza, but trying to understand the game.

As i already said, i did not understand Winston's role either. Hence i was convinced his claim was fake.
The scum dont need a tracker. If Pizza is scum, he is probably not the tracker. Do we have any verifiable results from his tracking?
Hopefully i will have some time to read up on a few things tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
It has nothing to do with Pizza's read on him, and everything to do with Murska's behaviour yesterday.

So, Murska is your top suspect?
What do you think about GH?

Originally Posted by atheotes:
So, Murska is your top suspect?
What do you think about GH?

Haven't liked him so far, I could see him working with Pelican and faking his claim by claiming actions on his buddy. OTOH I'm tired of losing power roles, so I don't particularly want to lynch him.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Ah screw it, tone is all I have at this point, and tonewise Pizza is innocent. Vote: Murska because I still don't like his behaviour towards the Monty wagon yesterday. Still worry tha I'm just jumping on the scummiest townie that a mafia Pizza found, but whatever, I'm past caring at this point. The game is probably already lost.

Can you explain the tone read on Pizza? And while you're at it can you spell out the logic for Murska? From where I'm sitting it's still "lynch Pizza or lose the game" right now, but I don't want to contribute to a town loss because I wasn't willing to consider a world where Pizza is town. If Pizza is town, what's the scum team?

Also, @Murska, I'll ask again: Why did you unvote Pizza yesterday? In fact, can you spell out your whole voting pattern yesterday for us? Because I had a theory for a while that fit strongly with what I know of your town meta, but I don't understand a lot of your votes yesterday, and I don't want to rely on assumptions when I can hear it from the horse's mouth.

Basically what I'm getting at is that, this lynch being crucial, we need complete transparency of thought. "Screw it I'm voting Murska" is not going to cut it, nor are lists of names and one sentence posts with votes.

I have work now, but at the next opportunity I'll be back to spell out my thoughts about all of the remaining players to the best of my ability, and to put forth the case against Pizza as clearly as I can.

Originally Posted by atheotes:
I a dismissing your theory simply based on your VC and the fact that if the scum were all human, you are not really neutral. Murska has been scummy based on tone. But GH and Pizza are way above him in the POE
What do you think about GH?

Well... heck! I'm neutral and need to save robots and Fry, I really do not see the incompatibility between my role and the scum being humans.

GH is scummy as heck but I do not see a scum GH fabricating those moronic night actions... less yet claiming when he did and without any pressure.

Originally Posted by atheotes:
As i already said, i did not understand Winston's role either. Hence i was convinced his claim was fake.
The scum dont need a tracker. If Pizza is scum, he is probably not the tracker. Do we have any verifiable results from his tracking?
Hopefully i will have some time to read up on a few things tomorrow.

It doesn't make sense, right. If scum Pizza didn't track anyone he still got the result from a tracker, Winston didn't lie, he scanned jht, Pizza claimed first Winston scanned jht, so again we are stuck with a tracker being scum... if the tracker is not scum, neither is pizza, or the mafia has a tracker... Now I'm dizzy! :dizzy2:

I see Pizza as town because his little mental breakdown while I was sleeping didn't feel like mafia. Murska is again because of his odd comments on the abortive Monty wagon yesterday, and a general scummy feel from his posts. If pizza is mafia then I want to say mafia are Murska Monty GH and maybe you, but past the first 2 that list is uncertain.

I would just like to state for the record that when we inevitably lose, you can all blame me. I have done way too much waffling and sheeping this game, and I don't really know how to break out of it.

Tally as of post 2729:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Murska (GeneralHankerchief, Askthepizzaguy, Dp101)
2 votes: Askthepizzaguy (Montmorency, Murska)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Montmorency:
Askthepizzaguy

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Askthepizzaguy

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief:
Murska

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
atheotes

Originally Posted by Murska:
Askthepizzaguy

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Murska

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Murska

Originally Posted by Zack:
Voting ends in:

not voting - al sips, atheotes, pelican, riedquat

Okay, give me time to process this.

Pizza, I think I liked your walls better.

@Riedquat, correct me if I'm wrong, but your rationale for putting Murska firmly in the scum pile is that (theoretically) his cover role is human and that all of the dead good'uns have been robots, right?

General, you gathered your thoughts yet? Got a list of mafia?

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief:
@Riedquat, correct me if I'm wrong, but your rationale for putting Murska firmly in the scum pile is that (theoretically) his cover role is human and that all of the dead good'uns have been robots, right?

Rationale? What the flying heck are you talking about, I admitted it is/was pure paranoia, I just wanted to know who was who given all the reveals and the info at hand, and as I don't have a clue about the show's characters followed the link on Murska's claim and found about the killbots and his relation with Larry/Khaan and later on the mafia is MomCorp, Mom being his wife... at the time I didn't think about the cover role, so in favor of Murska towniness is the lack of a cover role or his cover is like mine or yours I'd assume? I'm a vanilla townie Bender! So no, it is not firmly there.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
I would just like to state for the record that when we inevitably lose, you can all blame me. I have done way too much waffling and sheeping this game, and I don't really know how to break out of it.

If this guy is scum, he deserves a statue or something!

Honestly, the scum played flawlessly! Town has played terrible (me included of course), look back at the dead townies, all pointing to lynch other townies... If town wins, it would be 45% accident, 40% luck and 10% the kumquat effect! :laugh4:

Of course, if we lose we can also attribute it to the kumquat effect!

Originally Posted by Riedquat:
Rationale? What the flying heck are you talking about, I admitted it is/was pure paranoia, I just wanted to know who was who given all the reveals and the info at hand, and as I don't have a clue about the show's characters followed the link on Murska's claim and found about the killbots and his relation with Larry/Khaan and later on the mafia is MomCorp, Mom being his wife... at the time I didn't think about the cover role, so in favor of Murska towniness is the lack of a cover role or his cover is like mine or yours I'd assume? I'm a vanilla townie Bender! So no, it is not firmly there.

Rats, I was hoping for a nice easy "my night actions said he is scum" round. I have to do work this phase? isufhgoiuashdigas

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief:
Rats, I was hoping for a nice easy "my night actions said he is scum" round. I have to do work this phase? isufhgoiuashdigas

Yes! And do not be lazy! :whip:

I unvoted Pizza because people I was suspicious of, specifically Cuth, voted for him and I thought to give it time and see what'd spring up from a counterwagon. The wagon on Cuth started way too fast so I moved on GH whom I still think is definitely scum instead.

I would note that the only way Town is doing this poorly is that someone has been actively leading us astray, and that I haven't done that, having hardly been active all game.

As you say, someone, not necessarily the whole team. Some might play different roles.

Please someone I feel good about make a case I can feel good about.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
Please someone I feel good about make a case I can feel good about.

Basically me right now.

(I'll be more active tomorrow during work hours, hopefully)

Ultima ratio: Town Pizza doesn't act like this and survive to the endgame. Town Pizza would have been lynched long ago with this behavior.

Originally Posted by Montmorency:
Ultima ratio: Town Pizza doesn't act like this and survive to the endgame. Town Pizza would have been lynched long ago with this behavior.

this i tend to agree with.

What is your take on GH?

GH has been town, even if he looks too lazy. Perhaps even because of it.

Look, GH is as experienced a player as Pizza, and he has his own way of doing things. The only way the space taken by GH here could be scum is if Pizza has based his whole strategy on making his relationship to GH a headgame.

But GH isn't just a body to fill space, and he wouldn't go with such a crude or Pizza-centered plan. He would be carrying on a separate strand of activity. His behavior taken alone just doesn't make sense with a GH-Pizza team.

Pretty must dropping in to put a vote on Vote: Pizza just in case I can't be around tomorrow. I know this is shitty given my last post, but I genuinely will not have a spare moment that isn't taken up by work, class, or schoolwork until probably around 7 or 8 o clock tomorrow.

Quick answers to the things I addressed earlier: I guess I can see why you think Pizza meltdown would be town, DP, but it could also be the death-throes of a maf who expects to swing today. Based on the theatrics and Antics™ the whole thing feels artificial to me (the song lyrics and videos and stuff...I don't buy as part of a frustrated townie meltdown) Winston's theory about a Monty and Pizza elaborate bussing scheme is also fresh in my mind and something I want to consider; maybe there's something to it, maybe not. I need to look at their reactions to it when it was initially brought up and reread some of their interactions to see how genuine this all looks.

As for Murska, explanation was not what I was expecting, but it represents a townie attitude well enough. If we're not willing to bet the game on lynching Pizza, I'd rather bet on someone other than Murska. Like I could maybe support an Al Sips lynch as he's my top contender for Pizza teammate, potentially GH, but I need to reread him first and understand the case against him better, I haven't been paying much attention to his posts, especially since his claim came right as my ability to commit time to this game radically decreased. But this is only if we still can't get a Pizza lynch for whatever ungodly reason.

Arrrgh, I hate having to waffle like this. I can't really imagine a mafia breaking down at this stage, where they have basically already won. But then again, I really don't understand Pizza, so anything is possible. I agree with the Al lynch, and am not entirely sure on the "Pizza should have been lynched by now" theory, it assumes the mafia have had way more power than seems reasonable. I guess my main reason why I don't really want to kill Pizza is it will mean that I have completely failed in this game, letting part of my supposed town core lynch the other half and then finding out that half of it was mafia. I really don't want to be that wrong about things, but it increasingly looks like the only possible choice. Only definite thing I want to state right now is that there is no way the Monty/Pizza interaction is v/v, at least one of them will need to swing for us to win.

Vote for one of them?

Originally Posted by atheotes:
As i already said, i did not understand Winston's role either. Hence i was convinced his claim was fake.
The scum dont need a tracker. If Pizza is scum, he is probably not the tracker. Do we have any verifiable results from his tracking?
Hopefully i will have some time to read up on a few things tomorrow.

Winston flipped town and I said exactly where he was moving the night prior.

I can't know that in any other way other than I'm a tracker, I'm a scum tracker, or there's a scum tracker on my scum team and they told me.

Originally Posted by Dp101:
I see Pizza as town because his little mental breakdown while I was sleeping didn't feel like mafia. Murska is again because of his odd comments on the abortive Monty wagon yesterday, and a general scummy feel from his posts. If pizza is mafia then I want to say mafia are Murska Monty GH and maybe you, but past the first 2 that list is uncertain.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was in a manic state yesterday. I'm bipolar, and for the past 2 weeks or so I've been at a low point where I didn't want to do a whole lot.

So yesterday, I was at an unnatural high point. Then I wanted to play M2 for the first time in forever.

Last night I had dreams that I can remember for the first time in a long while, and I feel like... normal today.

Not game related, hope that explains that.

Pizza should have been lynched by now theory is a great way of not needing to state why I'm scummy when I'm not scum and haven't been scummy.

Originally Posted by Murska:
I would note that the only way Town is doing this poorly is that someone has been actively leading us astray, and that I haven't done that, having hardly been active all game.

You haven't been trying to
solve the game. You've been keeping your mitts off of the mislynches when it's been town/town on the block, for example.

Your vote for neither leading train hours before end of day yesterday....

fricking paragraph error

Originally Posted by Murska:
(Dp101, Al Sipsclar, Cuthillius)

All of these people are terrible.

Vote: Cuthillius

Fifth vote on Cuth, which takes a stand.

Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.
Nothing happens in between.

Originally Posted by Murska:
Now there's a surprising amount of people on the Cuth wagon.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Look at the time stamps, there were only a few hours before end of day and the lynch was always going to be town pizza or town Cuthillius and then he voted town Generalhankerchief. Or in some universe where GH is deliberately not blocking, distancing from hankerchief SAFELY.

GH is never going to get lynched in this situation.

This is a townie who literally thought pizza is scummy AND cuthillius is scummy and the best move would be to not push either with his vote?

So that one would lynch yesterday and one would lynch today.

Town mindset = Murska does not have it.

You know who looks really bad this game? Townies who have tried to win the game for their team.

You know who looks better than pizza, simply by default? Murska, who is not trying to win the game for town.

He's pretty much exactly the scum roleblocker at this point. You need to lynch him so GH can block someone's death!

@GeneralHankerchief
@Pelican
@Al Sipsclar @Riedquat
@Dp101

That's all you need to see. ISO Murska first, before you vote me. Is he solving or skating?

He's skating. He's doing no work. He doesn't care about the outcome.

Everyone keeps saying I'm only concerned about saving my own ass. Pardon me, but if that were my concern, I'd tunnel one candidate and not accuse five at once.

Examine literally any scum endgame I've ever played. How many suspects do I EVER HAVE????

"I think pizza is scummy, I think Cuth is scummy, so I'll vote for neither of them with only a couple hours to go and it being vaaaastly unlikely the trains will shift."

How many of you have ever had such a thought when town?

How many times have you moved your vote in that manner when you've been scum, though?

Think about what YOU would have done if you were scum. Scum you does what Murska did, village/village wagon, vote off-wagon even when you said both were scummy.

It's not even a hard decision, guys. It's only hard because I'm alive and I cannot control that part, but the scums can.

I'll just sit and wait for responses here. Otherwise I'm just going to drown out any actual point I just made and people will scroll right past it.



LOOK UP.

I'll at least give atheotes credit, his vote was when GH had another vote. That's riskier if GH-atheotes.

Not very because this is the .org.

Murska's vote on the other hand is just plain wrong for a town mindset. If he thinks both are scum, town murska would never vote off wagon.

Town anyone would never vote on a candidate with no votes at that time of the phase, when 98% of it had passed and people were settled on 2 wagons.

Like, if you don't care about the game anymore, and just dropped your only vote you ever intend to make, I understand.

This is a casual hobby for some people.

I'm probably caring about it too much. I'm asking everyone to care for five seconds and think.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Everyone keeps saying I'm only concerned about saving my own ass. Pardon me, but if that were my concern, I'd tunnel one candidate and not accuse five at once.

Examine literally any scum endgame I've ever played. How many suspects do I EVER HAVE????

You're only accusing me though...

Fair point, anyway. I haven't really been solving this game much. Too busy, I've limited my participation to being around, reading the thread and trying to vote on scum.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Pizza should have been lynched by now theory is a great way of not needing to state why I'm scummy when I'm not scum and haven't been scummy.

This is the entire case against me.

That plus inertia plus half-consensus. That's why no one is burying me. I'm already dead, in the scum's mind. Town is that easy to manipulate.

Someone voting me right now is town and unlikely to ever change their vote. That's p much all they need.

Originally Posted by Murska:
You're only accusing me though...

Fair point, anyway. I haven't really been solving this game much. Too busy, I've limited my participation to being around, reading the thread and trying to vote on scum.

You've been amazingly good at finding another townie to vote for when it's town/town wagons.

Like, no one has actually lynched a scum this game, so all things being equal, we're all equally scummy. But we're not.

You've somehow managed to ID two townies, call them scummy, and vote a third townie.

That's amazing.

I'm also accusing Monty and atheotes, specifically. If either of them were town, I'd be risking alienation of a critical vote I need. And I'm also referring to previous rounds.

@Pelican

get a grip on yourself, flappy bird, the amount you don't care about this game could be written on the great wall of china and run out of space.

Read what I wrote about murska and change your vote!

No one is burying me because I'm already dead. No one is burying me because I'm already dead.

A townie doesn't know that.

A townie doesn't know, and thus, would think there's a chance scum-Pizza gets away with this entire game and fricking BURYS ME with A CASE.

REASONS WHY I AM SCUM.

Nope. Just vote and cross your fingers.

No need for superstition here, because I'm already dead.

The game is over until a vote changes.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
You've been amazingly good at finding another townie to vote for when it's town/town wagons.

Like, no one has actually lynched a scum this game, so all things being equal, we're all equally scummy. But we're not.

You've somehow managed to ID two townies, call them scummy, and vote a third townie.

That's amazing.

I like how you're calling all three of these individuals townies when two of them are still alive. I also don't see what sort of scum train of thought would leave one going "Huh. There's wagons on people, I'm currently voting for Town and they're likely to be lynched. I should probably switch off this wagon now and vote for a third person".

As opposed to a Town player going "Huh. I thought to open a counterwagon because I'm not sure whether my original target actually is scum. But the counterwagon gathered steam way too fast and from some odd people. I should not keep my vote here, but I'm still not sure whether my original target is scum or not. I suppose I'll vote for someone I do think is scum."

They know I'm already dead, so there's no need to overdo it, no need to push me.

Scum have no reason to be desperate here. The critical vote they needed to lynch Murska did what they thought he would do, and is voting me.

Ever considered that scum might just be silent because there's yet another day of double town wagons?

Originally Posted by Murska:
I like how you're calling all three of these individuals townies when two of them are still alive. I also don't see what sort of scum train of thought would leave one going "Huh. There's wagons on people, I'm currently voting for Town and they're likely to be lynched. I should probably switch off this wagon now and vote for a third person".

As opposed to a Town player going "Huh. I thought to open a counterwagon because I'm not sure whether my original target actually is scum. But the counterwagon gathered steam way too fast and from some odd people. I should not keep my vote here, but I'm still not sure whether my original target is scum or not. I suppose I'll vote for someone I do think is scum."

One of them is me, and the other one is the reason why I've been able to track.

It's kinda obvious. Only GH can be scum out of the two of us and you're pushing the wrong one. And imo both are the wrong one.

Originally Posted by Murska:
Ever considered that scum might just be silent because there's yet another day of double town wagons?

Not remotely.

Describe that universe, for shits and giggles.

Nobody ever votes for GH when I do, so pushing him is kind of futile.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
They know I'm already dead, so there's no need to overdo it, no need to push me.

Scum have no reason to be desperate here. The critical vote they needed to lynch Murska did what they thought he would do, and is voting me.

To explain, because I wrote this sentence really fast:

They have to predict who's going to vote where. Al is kind of a maybe. Pelican is like a sure-fire pizza voter.

Now, if Pelican were to change his mind, all of a sudden, the count is wrong and they're in trouble.

Pelican votes, and reasons why I'm scum vanish, and people don't care anymore.

Scum pizza isn't going to get away with all this murder, they don't actually think to themselves, because we've got it in the bag.

Pelican tunnel on pizza won't vanish, he's going to hit back next time he's here with a case on pizza. Literally zero chance he changes his mind, because he's barely playing this game.

Al maybe votes Murska. GH, maybe. Me, definitely. Dp101, perhaps, but he's waffling. But without that fifth vote, it's not an issue.

Originally Posted by Murska:
Nobody ever votes for GH when I do, so pushing him is kind of futile.

It's futile only because I made it so today.

If (expected) I came in here and went, welp, GH is obviously the scum blocker, vote GH, and he votes me, that's game.

That is the whole point of hitting Winston, isn't it? Unless Winston can solve it with his power, there's no reason to hit Winston.

If I came in here and didn't think, this game would have been quite done.

You'd have had five GH votes in that scenario.

Or at the very least, an exactly zero chance I don't get lynched. That's a win-win.

Pelican thinking he's gotta come back here and bury me with a case tells me everything I need to know about him.

The poor guy actually thinks I'm going to get away. That the votes to lynch me aren't already extant.

That's a townie mindset. That pizza might actually get away.

The problem with Pizza's logic on Mafia not needing to bury him because he's burying himself is that one of the only Mafia teams that could successfully operationalize it is a scum team with Pizza on it.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Pelican thinking he's gotta come back here and bury me with a case tells me everything I need to know about him.

The poor guy actually thinks I'm going to get away. That the votes to lynch me aren't already extant.

That's a townie mindset. That pizza might actually get away.

More non-sequiturs

I'm literally putting Monty on ignore mode.

Murska, describe your meta as accurately and in as detailed a manner as possible.

Tell the newer players here, or the folks that haven't played with you much, what Murska is all about.

Town meta, scum meta, overall meta, in your own words. I'm not looking to twist them.

If you leave it up to me, I'd put it like this:

Town Murska and scum Murska look similar, because you don't do walls very much, and your post count is never that high.

You're a good scum hunter, but not finding scums doesn't make you scum.

What makes you scum, to me, here, is that at critical points of the game, you didn't take a stand and bury a suspect. Even a small bit of aggression.

It still could have been gentlemanly, and all that. You don't appeal to the crowd, for example. You just state your case.

You haven't bothered to do that ever this game, and took no stance on your own suspects' lynches yesterday. The non-sequitur was saying there's too many people on the Cuth wagon, when you were the only one who added to it.

How does a townie think... this wagon was fine before I added to it, but now it feels dirty?

That's someone trying to not vote Cuth, and then vote Pizza the next day. That's literally the only thought that I can think of which leads to that sequence of events.

It was scum Murska trying to be less wrong.

All I've done for most of this game was try to bury people. I have a lot of blood on my hands.

At no point did I ever think... would voting here make me look bad?

I deliberately put the after-the-deciding vote on BSmith. That's not pizza looking to avoid blame.

I've got my autograph engraved on those lynches. Those dead bodies say Pizza on it. Some of them even thought I was scummy for it, and they could TALK.

Pizza has NOT been trying to avoid blame, or to look good. And that's why votes started picking up on me mid-game, and they've been coasting on that shit ever since.

Scum pizza's plan for this game is easy as hell. I'd bus someone. Then I'd claim tracker if I were ever under pressure, which means I die soon after, but I could always claim to be blocked forever and ever after that. That's the simplest explanation. And then if someone else claims to have been blocked, I lynch their ass. Then I die, having caused maximum damage.

I'd get several scummy townies lynched, and talk a lot with the dead townies and play to them, because if they think someone is scummy, that's a known confirmed townie saying it. And they'd have reasons to be hateful toward those who lynched them. I would have been a coward and a con man, and it would be written all over everything I've done all game long. But I'd be dead and proven scum, not trying to play for an endgame.

That's so generic but it would have worked. People avoiding blame for lynches have been trying to avoid dead townies saying "Lynch him! He did it!"

I'm going to have to walk away from my computer. Otherwise, it's just going to be scroll past, scroll scroll scroll. Probably already is.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
I'm going to have to walk away from my computer. Otherwise, it's just going to be scroll past, scroll scroll scroll. Probably already is.

Vote: Pizza for now... Or Murska... Or Pizza... I'm not sure!


Now, come back and give us the picture of the entire scum team, preferable in a very big and condensed wall of text!

Thank you Pizza for laying out how Murska has been staying back and not in the thick of it enough, that was what my example was getting at but I wasn't sure if that was his standard playstyle or not.

Originally Posted by :
Thank you Pizza

he will whisper as Pizza cackles while choking the life out of him.

'Thank you for allowing me not to witness the abyss of my degradation.'

Look, I'm getting really tired of this. I thanked him because I literally have no idea what Murska's baseline is and needed a second opinion to be sure. Also, if you hadn't noticed, I'm kind of getting frustrated with this game, which erodes my patience and the time I'm willing to spend hunting back through this giant thread, so having someone else look at someone's beheviour over the whole game can be useful. Now, are you going to keep making small jokes and comments, or are you going to actually try and solve the game?

Pizza and Al Sipsclar, I guarantee you. Simple as that.

I'll finally have some time to look at this in an hour.

I'd probably try thinking about the game around now but there is no real chance to get anyone else lynched and no matter how pocketed I still prefer a Pizza lynch to myself.

Pizza, you have not answered my qn about why you think GH is town.
I looked at the votes, realised Al Sips has done nothing all game but made sure he voted every phase. He ensured that Cuth got lynched over Pizza and did not even bother to give a reason for the vote.
It is unbelievable that nobody has paid any attention to that. I am fairly convinced he is scum.
Vote: Al Sipsclar

Okay, I'm going to be doing this in segments mostly because I'm not sure when I'm going to get back to working. Also, they represent different strands of thought.

The first strand is that I think we all need to be operating based off the following two assumptions:

Assumption 1) Pizza and Murska are not m/m together. Given the gamestate (basically Lylo and town having not gotten a single lynch right) and how hard these two have been going after each other it makes absolutely no sense to set up a mutual bus/Thunderdome. It's far more likely that we're dealing with an m/t pairing, possibly t/t, but never m/m.

Assumption 2) One of the two of them is going to be today's lynch. The battle lines are basically drawn at this point and there's not going to be enough momentum to take a third option, even with 8-9 hours remaining.

Assuming that the above two assumptions are correct, take that into account for my thoughts to follow.

Originally Posted by atheotes:
Pizza, you have not answered my qn about why you think GH is town.
I looked at the votes, realised Al Sips has done nothing all game but made sure he voted every phase. He ensured that Cuth got lynched over Pizza and did not even bother to give a reason for the vote.
It is unbelievable that nobody has paid any attention to that. I am fairly convinced he is scum.
Vote: Al Sipsclar

You. I like you.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

I definitely will self-preserve if necessary, however.

I still think GH is scum and Pizza has been pretty scummy as well.
The only point in favour of Pizza is the fact that he actually revealed Winston's visit to JHT before Winston. I think it is unlikely for a tracker to be part of scum team. I dont know if Zack would give cover roles to scum and also allow them the use of the cover role abilities.

Pelican and Dp101 are pretty much town for me. I am not going to lynch Monty either.

Murska has been scummy as well. But i cant find any strong associations for him.

Quat could very well be scum. It makes no sense to have a neutral role that can only win with town. also i dont trust his VC about keeping Fry alive. Fry should not reveal.

Unfortunately i did not have much time today and these are my current thoughts on the game. We are in potential Lylo and i understandy why. I will try to be back before EOD. Lets atleast make this lynch decisive.

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief:
Assumption 2) One of the two of them is going to be today's lynch. The battle lines are basically drawn at this point and there's not going to be enough momentum to take a third option, even with 8-9 hours remaining.

You. I really dislike you.

Second part.

The supporting players.

Al Sipsclar I don't have a read on. Low volume of posts, jailed him on N4 but I was actively blocked, he claims vanilla townie, whatever.

Riedquat is town. Period. I refuse to entertain the notion that he isn't at this time. If he's scum, then well played, I never saw it coming.

atheotes is kind of a man adrift. He's playing to his own tune, as most recently evidenced by his Al Sipsclar vote. Now, while the mafia have been obviously effective at this game thusfar, it's a possibility that they can afford to have atheotes be the lone man doing his own thing as kind of a last resort in case the tables turn, I think the numbers and my other reads make it far more likely that atheotes is just a townie doing his own thing. Basically, the only scenario in which I see atheotes as maf is if Pizza and Murska are t/t, in which case it's already over anyway.

Pelican is for all intents and purposes MIA. What posts he does make have him going all-in on the "Pizza is scum" universe.

Dp101 has had a very townie tone. This is, if I recall, his second game ever. Which means either he's town... or he's a terrifyingly good liar. If we survive the next round or two he'll need to be examined come endgame but he gets a town lean in the interim.

Montmorency has Pirate Ship Mafia III written all over his behavior in this game. In Pirate Ship III, Monty (vanilla town), preferred to give out direction instead of take it for the most part, generally ending up running a parallel effort to the town's main thrust. Occasionally they intersected with varying results. Sound familiar? It should. It's also notable in that Monty, while obviously well-intentioned, was wrong far more often than not in that game, particularly with his main nemesis in that game Andres. Town Monty has this kind of... block... where once he really, truly locks onto a player, the universe twists around on itself to make sure every scenario has that player as a scumbag. We're definitely seeing that here from him w/r/t Pizza, now the only question is whether Monty's right or not.

More coming.

(As an aside, if I'm proven wrong and an Al Sips wagon does materialize, I'd be happy to join it)

Third part.

The candidates.

Murska is... setting off alarms. Pizza, if you chew through the fat, has a good case on him. Murska's response to one of Pizza's main points is below:

Originally Posted by Murska:
I unvoted Pizza because people I was suspicious of, specifically Cuth, voted for him and I thought to give it time and see what'd spring up from a counterwagon. The wagon on Cuth started way too fast so I moved on GH whom I still think is definitely scum instead.

Which, okay, I can see it, but he immediately follows it up with this:

Originally Posted by Murska:
I would note that the only way Town is doing this poorly is that someone has been actively leading us astray, and that I haven't done that, having hardly been active all game.

And this is the post I don't like. There's plenty of reasons towns can be terrible in these games. Lack of activity. Enough people putting their blinders on w/r/t other townies and refusing to entertain other possibilities. People getting sidetracked. Someone taking up the leadership role, but being flat-out wrong instead of actively leading people astray. As a matter of fact, I'd go the other way and argue active sabotage is one of the least common reasons why a town stinks up a particular game. Murska, I have no idea about your meta or experience and I don't often play this card, but I've been playing Mafia for a while and one of the things I've found is that when faced with a bad town, the mafia simply let them all shoot themselves in the foot (and the head) without directing the tiller too much. I think this is an attempt at creating a false scenario and planting it in people's minds.

So, I know you've mentioned the issue somewhat, but basically I want to get in your head more. I want a full reads list from you, with explanations, as well as possible scum teams. I'd also like your full thought process regarding your actions over the past day or three. We've got an appetizer with the whole "why I moved my vote" thing from last round, but now I want the main course. I'm at the point where pretty much only that will get me to move my vote off you, unless we're faced with competing Al Sipsclar/Pizza wagons.

Speaking of which...

Askthepizzaguy. Good god. Pizza. Could this actually be the moment? I don't think we've ever, ever been on the same wavelength in a game of mafia together - regardless of our factions - and, well, there have been a lot of games.

Anyway, moving on from the sentimentality. It wasn't always like this. I was sure you were mafia after Cuth flipped town last phase. It all fit into play - the last-minute shift, the "as long as it isn't me" mentality you seemed to have. I fully intended to come after you, guns blazing. I even tried to throw you in jail last night.

But the case against Murska is good. The tone is right. There are some things you just can't fake. I don't care how well-regarded and tricky you are, as you and I both know that doesn't work on me. Mafia, when faced with triple game point, don't get desperate and flailing around until they hit paydirt. They just don't. They can try, but they leave subtle tells that they're putting it on for show, and those tells aren't there. So if it's a Pizza/Murska thunderdome today, I'll stand in your corner. You've got a good case and you're playing the part of town well (though the alien thing that Ried mentioned hasn't fallen out of my mind yet). If it's a Pizza/Al Sipsclar thunderdome, I'll stand in your corner for that too.

My vote will remain on Murska. If momentum moves it away from him and onto Al Sipsclar, then I will vote Al Sipsclar. I will not be voting for Pizza this phase.

Final part:

I think our remaining scum are Murska/Al Sipsclar/Pelican. Pelican's trying to take out a power role, Murska is distancing and attempting to do a soft bus of Al Sips currently. Possibly because Murska's the scum roleblocker (or rolecop?), possibly because he sees the momentum shifting away from Pizza.

Originally Posted by :
generally ending up running a parallel effort to the town's main thrust.

For better or worse, I was the town thrust in the second half of the game. But there's no private comms here.

Definitely not impressed with the meta paragraph about Murska and Pizza.

Can we vote Al Sipsclar? This is making me uneasy. I have the feeling Pizza can act like this because he has set up a situation where he doesn't care if a town or a scum is lynched on this particular day - he's playing, and has been playing a longer game - and it's annoying me. I would vote Al Sipsclar over Murska, if Pizza is really not happening again.

Please consider just finishing off Pizza. If Pizza is not scum, then we are all very horribly wrong in unique ways anyway.