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I really enjoyed my time as a rebel under Wolfgang Hummel. Not only was that Jan my first character but for a short period I was really involved in the politics of the game. With Andreas, Fritz and Matthias became the only two characters I had a lot of contact with. Sadly, I nver suspected a thing about either of them, but I think I came far too late to have an understanding of KOTR intrigue.
It took 10 hours but I read the whole thing. Quite a piece of work. :yes:
I am honored and amused that I could create a character that could annoy the whole group enough to be mentioned in the Chronicles dozens of times. :2thumbsup:
You six have raised the bar for political organization and maneuvering for a game in the Throne Room. Kudos! :balloon2:
To think the whole Jan/Order feud started because of a disagreement over how to treat prisoners. I wanted to play a character that would take a strong moral stance regarding certain policies. I figured it wouldn't be popular but I had no clue what kind of hornet nest I stepped into.
From 1260 to 1300 it was just Jan muddling around trying to deal with all the incoming political attacks. I find it amusing that a lot of opposition to Jan in 1280 had to do with the Order's relentless mission to promote it's members. I didn't even know Siegfried was going to pick Jan to be King until he did it. Siegfried once made an allusion to Jan being Franconian but that is all I ever got out of Ituralde IC or OOC regarding the matter.
In 1300 it all changed. Jan got proof of the Order. And he got proof that the Order was out for his job. And then Jan got mad... He might have had 10 chivalry but he had a few dread traits as well so I let his darker side come out and he became an obsessed fanatic. I'm glad Jan was able to frustrate the Order's plans for Swabia but it ended up being a pyhrric victory.
I tried to tie up some storylines with Alfgarda but wanted a fresh start with a new avatar at the new Diet so I dropped it. But real life intervened and I "retired" from the game. By coincidence I checked back in just in time to see the game being wrapped up and saw a chance to finish a couple stories. Now I guess Alfgarda and kids get to live a very short and violent life in the new Republic. :laugh4:
The Illuminat transcripts have certainly made for interesting, though difficult reading. Having grown so fond of the Reich after all these months, it's hard reading the plotting of it's downfall. ~:mecry:
Ironically, it's ocurred to me that a plot point like this would is much better at reinvigorating interest in KOTR than the Cataclysm could ever be (no offense to Tincow, econ or Iturlade, the best things can't be planned.). Indeed, once the Battle of Trent is over it will be a lot like 1080: A new starting point, but with a vivid history of how we got there.
I know a lot of IC things have been disclosed, but is there anything stopping us from continuing? Just off the top of my head the new Republic could be a two-house system, with the normal Diet serving as the House of Commons and the Illuminati proper serving as the House of Lords.
I just went back through them and found no less than 12 separate mentionings of a desire to murder my character. And countless desires to have him fired from being King.
Thanks guys! No truer account of a man can be given than by those of his enemies... :laugh4:
Jan, for better or worse, certainly made his mark on the world. :2thumbsup:
I wouldn't mind seeing this continue, and would even offer to help out to take up the slack from the people that run it, but I think they are likely to need a break after so long.
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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX
I second that offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
I think the game is about exhausted. Just my take on it. We've gone on for awhile and done many things. With the war over, one side basically has hegemonic control. That will make things very boring in my opinion. The Order will decide how the Reich is run and it will be run that way. If your character agrees, then yay! If your character doesn't, then your character will be sidelined or take a long trip on a leaky boat.
A new game gives a fresh start. The power will be broken back up. (unless the Order players just move the group to the new game.) New feudal rules will be written which should add complexity and depth to the game. Which it needs. When this game hit 20 or so players, the current amount of feudal titles and army commands could not satisfy everyone. Which the Order tapped into beautifully.
If we keep this game, we will either be very bored because of the lack of political debate or we will be playing under the very rules that we grew bored of and exhausted in the first place. I can not think of a more pointless game than one where all the survivors agree on exactly what to do. :no:
Like I said, just my view of it. If others want to continue it, I don't see why not. But I'm glad a fresh game will be starting semi-soon. :yes:
I hate to say it, but I do agree with PK. I for one am ready for something new.
You hate to say it? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerra
Agreement with me should be an absolute honor that everyone should live to strive for. :clown:
I can understand both how reading the Illuminati notes could regenerate Cecil's interest in the game(I know seeing a couple of my pms dissected by the Order certainly piqued my interest) and how many of the players who have been in this for a long time would want something new.
Although I certainly would not complain if the game kept going, especially when my newest character just starts to get interesting, I suspect TinCow's willingness to post the Illuminati's notes is a sign he believes the game is ending. Econ21 has bowed out for a while to take a break, and most of the others who have worked so hard to bring this game to a conclusion are probably ready for a new one. I just hope that we can get a new one started before summer. :2thumbsup:
A good point. I might feel differently if I had a current avatar that I had invested tons of time into like Cecil, you, and some of the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
But my main one, Jan, is long dead. I didn't have enough time to get attached to von Essen. And Alfgarda is very much limited by her lack of battle fighting ability.
So yeah, if there is enough interest, and people are having fun, then I don't see any reason why people can't continue in this one. But to me, I feel all the life is basically drained out of it. It was one heck of a run though... :yes:
:laugh4:
It was saying that I was ready to finish the game that I hated, not so much agreeing with you. Although that was difficult too.
:clown:
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Originally Posted by Privateerkev
If we kept the game going, there'd be at best 4 Imperial generals. The whole Reich would not dare support a losing side and make the best of living under a bloodbath of tyranny.
yeah it is time for a new start, I am eager to hear the plans Econ and TC have been keeping from us all these years...
but I'll only join the new one if deguerra makes us all new coats of arms :clown:
THAT I can gladly do :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
Woohoo! :birthday2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerra
Gentlemen,
Disclosure of the Order was based on the game ending. We played the "End Game" based on this belief. Otherwise we would not have "organised" the final battle as we did :beam:
Certainly a story within a story can open up a whole new world to all the players, but the whole idea of this Republic and the Orders continuation would be rather dull in comparison to what we have done.
And contrary to what seems to be a under current of belief, the Order was and is never evil.
The Ends Justify the Means and a Republic would (If Arnold had any say) be exactly as advertised in the basic theories of the Blood Charter.
Representation is equal, a voice for all. Certainly there would be two houses as someone mentioned.
We would essentially go back and read ancient Rome and implement the same style of government as was done back then...we would be a Democracy surrounded by Feudalism in the late thirteen hundreds...can you all imagine that for a second :2thumbsup:
I read until 11 last night and will continue on tonight...to see it all come together is impressive. Northnovas is actually cataloguing everything so we can put it up with OK's history so the timing of the discussions are easier to understand.
Finished the last third or so of the Illuminati thread earlier (basically everything since I joined the game. I read quite a bit of what went on before, but devoid of the context actually having played through those events would have added, it was hard to follow). Have to admit, seeing the Illuminati attempt to dissect a couple of pms of mine that were especially noncommital was kind of funny. I hadn't a clue what Matthias was getting at. Ah well, at least Andreas' namew as mentioned. :clown:
I got the same feeling... I began taking part too late to relate to most events mentioned in the Illuminati thread but it is funny to see how Hugo's name comes up a few times and the role he would have cast in had things turned out differently...
I actually asked GH to bulk up the Imperial forces a bit more after his initial plan, simply because I thought it was too unfair. I wanted it to be a situation where the Imperials would at least have a fighting chance if all the stars aligned properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Actually, I do. Zim and deguerra had planned to betray you and open the gates of Staufen to Ruppel. Had you held it, you would have been defeated easily. Apparently they were annoyed that you were prepared to sacrifice Flanders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
----
As for continuing the game, KOTR is at an end, but I've got a plan for a new game that I think most people will like a great deal. Once the final turn of Trent is resolved, I will post it and we can discuss it for a while before starting a new one up. Once you see the new rules, I think you'll agree that it'll be more fun than simply continuing KOTR.
I am eagerly awaiting the announcement of the new rules and the report on the final phase of the battle. Hopefully Dieter can do some damage before he goes.
So get on with it... :whip:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
EDIT : Damn beaten to it by the rosbeef... :clown:
:furious3: What!???!!!!!?? :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: Drat those Illuminati, was there no end to their scheming?Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
And to think I had introduced them to the politics of betrayal.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: Seriously, though, that is one very efficient espinoage/intelligent system.
Once we got ourselves together it became a fairly effective team Igno.
Although I had no idea about Zim and deguerra until TC just posted now.
I hope we can have a break before the next game starts. I'm banking on a fairly robust discussion on the pro's and con's of what TC has organised.
I'm really interested in how we are going to play a game without using the HRE. All other nations of the time where pure feudalism...while the HRE was of course feudal it was fragmented and had a system in place that was very fractured and worked as a believable back drop to all this.
I get the impression that more than a few of you feel a little left out and side lined now that the Chronicles are out.
So, to all of you who weren't in the Order...please please please realise that the 6 of us where only able to do this BECAUSE of the rest of you.
Without your contributions and interactions none of what we where able to do would have been possible. The extent and depth we where able to achieve with all this was only possible because of the time and effort all of the rest of you put in.
We where a product of you all not the other way around.
give me roast beef over snails covered in garlic any day... :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng
You weren't supposed to tell Ignoramus that!! :clown:
That was, I must admit, by far the best time I had in KotR. I think Zim and I literally spent several sleepless nights. It was a downright shame that it ended so abruptly and peacably with Hummel dying on us. I do have to stress though, that the Illuminati and their scheming had nothing to do with it. It was born from Zim and my schemings alone.
While what AG says about feeling a little left out, I still did have a blast for 80% of the game, and it only encourages me to get more actively involved in the future.
I'm don't feel left out, I'm just amazed at how organised you were. And what was so masterful about it was I hadn't a clue that the Illuminati still existed. To be honest, I had actually thought they were an opportunist group that hoped to benefit by Ulrich's election. After Ulrich's impeachment I forgot at them.
The only thing I dislike about the game was that it was too democratic rather than a loose feudalism headed by the Kaiser himself. It just didn't seem to ring true that in the 1100's we be running an empire in the Feudal Europe like the US today. Just my :2cents: .
It certainly does explain some things TC said after I'd petitioned him to keep Wolfgang alive(he'd said it was hopeless regardless)Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerra
Really, I'm impressed. If you've still got any old PM's left in your inbox, can you and Zim post them? I always like finding out how my actions affected other players actions, and how people plotted to betray me, it's almost more interesting than the game itself.
I apologise for dying on you. Believe me, I was furious when Wolfgang kicked the bucket(being unaware of your scheme, I had thought the hard work was over).
If only Wolfgang was content enough to be Duke of Flanders. He would have been alive, a Duke, and the Illuminati's influence would have been curbed. Something to remember for the next game.
My own feeling is perfectly adressed in that sentence... :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by deguerra
As I've stated so many times before, I only wish I joined sooner but reading the threads (and being on the outside of it all) you could see that there was much going on behind the scenes and it acted as a deterrent to me...
I was on the verge of joining at the start of the Cataclysm but then it started and I thought that would be a bad time to get in the saddle...
Anyway, it beats any experience you might have in SP and I must admit it even beats MP Hotseat games in my point of view...
So thank you all, players and GM alike for the fantastic work put into creating such an entertaining gaming experience... Which somehow carried me back some years to my best RP experiences