Rubicon [Concluded]

Sasaki's list had a few errors so for the benefit of the mafia i have corrected the list, it would be best to choose from this list...

Navaros
Beefy187
GeneralHankerchief
Andres
Greyblades
Sasaki Kojiro
TinCow
everyone
johnhughthom
AggonyDuck
Yaropolk
'khaan
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Chaotix
Khazaar
Ichigo
White_eyes:D
Jolt
Redleg
Tiberius of the Drake
Cultured Drizzt fan
Don Corleone
Gawain Of Orkney
Glenn
A Very Super Market
Iskander 3.1
Captain Blackadder
pevergreen
Tratorix
Tosa Inu
YLC
woad&fangs
navarro951
Lord Winter
Ignoramus
Banqou's Ghost
TheFlax
Cronos Impera
Beskar
Caius

:yes:

Edit: Tut tut at Andres and Sasaki for trying to confuse the mafia... lowest of the....

Fellow Romans your senator is here... let us remember that Rome was founded as a republic... we can't allow ourselves to fall under the tyranny of either of our potential dictators!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Edit: Tut tut at Andres and Sasaki for trying to confuse the mafia... lowest of the....

---

I know, it's not good sportsmanship :shame:

keep hearing about that Rome show, was it any good? anyone care to give a brief outline of the plot? if its not to much to ask....

This is going to be fun!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Edit: Tut tut at Andres and Sasaki for trying to confuse the mafia... lowest of the....

---

I know, seriously. Cultured Drizzt fan isn't even playing, yet he keeps appearing on the list. By the way, I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit quieter this time around, as I'll be extremely busy. So if I get killed tonight, don't expect much activity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I know, seriously. Cultured Drizzt fan isn't even playing, yet he keeps appearing on the list. By the way, I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit quieter this time around, as I'll be extremely busy. So if I get killed tonight, don't expect much activity.

---

You know what that means... ATPG is MAFIA! Everyone kill him!

Excuse me, fellow Senator, but maybe you want to wait for day phase for that.

Fellow Optimates and Populares:

I propose to you a protocol which will root out all Cesarians and Pompeiians, sealing a victory for the town (Populares and Optimates). We have more than 24 hours to send in night orders, so hear me out and discuss this before sending orders.

We have tremendous investigation power. All regular senators can investigate in pairs. All regular senators regardless of affiliation win if all Cesarians and Pompeiians die.

THE PROTOCOL

We will split up into 9 quartets of 4 players each. This ordering will not be random but based on TC's original post order. This will ensure I am not trying to arrange any kind of scummy groups.

In each quartet, players will split off into pairs via PM. Each pair will investigate someone from the other pair. The investigation targets will be known among the quartet before orders are sent in. The next day they will investigate the other 2 people in the quartet. Since investigation targets are not posted publically ahead of time, mafia will have a hard time preventing investigations.

The following morning each quartet will post its findings. We only care if the target of the investigation is a Senator (Optimate/Populare) or Dictator (Caesarian/Pompeiian), so don't post their exact faction. I know it's tempting for optimates to sell out populares or protect a Pompeiian, but don't do it We will win only if we all agree to follow this rule. Those scummy dictators will easily sacrifice you to gain power.

Since we know it takes 2 to investigate and both players receive the results they can serve to check each other. If 2 players dont agree on investigation results or didnt receive results that means on of them is scum. The odds of 2 Caesarians or 2 pompeians being in one quartet are quite slim. To further minimize the risk of collaboration, pairs should rotate within the quartet from day to day.

Finally, 3 senators can get together and kill someone. Don't do it! Post your investigation results and let the town lynch them. The town has immense investigation power in this game if we all agree to work together.




Please post if you agree to abide by these rules. I will post the quartets after people agree to protocol.

It seems like it would work, but I have doubts as to the successful application thereof.

Investigations don't reveal whether someone is mafia...they just reveal which faction they belong to. Says so in the role pm.

It seems like a good idea in theory, but I doubt it'll work in practice... the mafia can just find a way around this by posting fake investigations- and since there will be so many investigations, we won't necessarily be able to prove them wrong on the same day.

Overall, it's going to translate into a huge amount of clerical work just to keep track of who investigated who on what night and with which person and what their result was, and if that result can actually be taken to be true.

And besides, how do we know we can trust you, anyway, Yaropolk?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

The following morning each quartet will post its findings. We only care if the target of the investigation is a Senator (Optimate/Populare) or Dictator (Caesarian/Pompeiian), so don't post their exact faction. I know it's tempting for optimates to sell out populares or protect a Pompeiian, but don't do it We will win only if we all agree to follow this rule. Those scummy dictators will easily sacrifice you to gain power.

---

Note: Caesarian and Pompeiian are simply part of the role names, they are not separate 'factions' from the Optimates and Populares. All Caesarians are part of the Populares faction, and all Pompeiians are part of the Optimates faction. Senator investigation groups will show the faction of the person they investigate, nothing more.

Yaropolk, while it is a good idea, unfortunately, the Mafia could destroy a single group in a night phase, as far as I am aware. This would mean all the information and knowledge that group has obtained will be wasted. There is also the possibly that groups could have Mafia members in and they could organise their mafia-members to destroy a group bar themselves so that knowledge is sealed away.

As you can tell, there are possibilities and flaws. I suggest larger group sizes for such groups to work, and those groups operate within a secret board where all the knowledge is pooled (if that is allowed) so when a group suffers a certain amount of losses, they can spill the beans of their knowledge in hope of aiding.

Then again, where do peoples loyalties lie? Groups could be corrupted under the influence of factions thus instead of powering the senate, we are in fact delivering the senate into the hands of those who you wish to rid us off. They could also deliver targets and expose threats to those who you wish to be rid off.

There a pro's and con's and people have to choose wisely, especially in such publicised environments.

Oh, there have been some replies as well. What is the point of investigating some one then if it doesn't actually deliver anything substantial?

One might suggest a strategy of keeping it simple and just voting for who you think needs to die. (This from captain overcomplicated here... my apologies.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

What is the point of investigating some one then if it doesn't actually deliver anything substantial?

---

Read Senator victory condition #2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Oh, there have been some replies as well. What is the point of investigating some one then if it doesn't actually deliver anything substantial?

---

I believe it benefits the town as a whole to avoid investigations--and certainly to keep any results private. If we remove one of the mafia groups, and the other knows who the enemy senators are, they will win much more quickly than if they don't.

At this stage in the game, the mafia are much more eager to know which faction people belong to. For a regular senator, the odds are that they will die, so the "eliminate all mafia" is the win condition they should be working towards. Of course later in the game this becomes more interesting...hmm if we eliminate one faction than investigation results can begin clearing peoples names. So they are useful, just don't share them with a central source, or with anyone other than your partner. That person could be mafia and you could be aiding in their victory.

Later in the game we might be able to use them on a case by case basis. Like if someone is going to be lynched and two people step forward to say that they belong to the faction whose mafia group has already been eliminated.

I see that condition, but doesn't that make condition 1 nearly impossible to complete? Afterall, you could see the presence of some one of status of Caesar and Pompey from a mile away. Would investigations at least reveal the names of who you investigated?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Yaropolk, while it is a good idea, unfortunately, the Mafia could destroy a single group in a night phase, as far as I am aware. This would mean all the information and knowledge that group has obtained will be wasted. There is also the possibly that groups could have Mafia members in and they could organise their mafia-members to destroy a group bar themselves so that knowledge is sealed away.

As you can tell, there are possibilities and flaws. I suggest larger group sizes for such groups to work, and those groups operate within a secret board where all the knowledge is pooled (if that is allowed) so when a group suffers a certain amount of losses, they can spill the beans of their knowledge in hope of aiding.

Then again, where do peoples loyalties lie? Groups could be corrupted under the influence of factions thus instead of powering the senate, we are in fact delivering the senate into the hands of those who you wish to rid us off. They could also deliver targets and expose threats to those who you wish to be rid off.

There a pro's and con's and people have to choose wisely, especially in such publicised environments.

Oh, there have been some replies as well. What is the point of investigating some one then if it doesn't actually deliver anything substantial?

---

Call me crazy, but I get a scummy feeling from these words already...

Perhaps it's just because I haven't played a game with you before, Beskar. I'll have to get accustomed to your playstyle before I go around accusing you on the basis of your manner of writing...

:laugh4:

Mafia's always more fun with new players.

Those were simply words of caution. Would you call the Health Inspector scummy when he describes the risks involved in trying to do something a certain way?

Since my suggestions would actually have been a more of a danger to mafia-members opposed to assisting them, it would be like a two-handed axe murderer cutting off one of his own arms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Call me crazy, but I get a scummy feeling from these words already...

---

My my my, Senator Chaoticus Maximus, you sure are tossing around the accusations tonight. Could this be your own guilt being projected onto others?

Beskar's posting style and his guilt/innocence was the topic of discussion for Swords in the Moon up until his death. I'd say this is pretty normal for him, although we have yet to officially see what he was in the other game.

Please note that if I do not respond to a question that is asked, it is because I do not want to comment on it, I am not ignoring you. I understand that there are lots of questions due to the unusual nature of this game, however some information you will simply have to discover for yourselves. You will forgive me if I refrain from commenting on the game except when I feel there is some aspect of the rules that needs to be clarified for it to operate properly. :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Beskar's posting style and his guilt/innocence was the topic of discussion for Swords in the Moon up until his death. I'd say this is pretty normal for him, although we have yet to officially see what he was in the other game.

---

Ah. Good, then I'm not crazy (or at least not for that reason).

I'll stop accusing you based on post style, then, which would sound decidedly scummy if anyone else said it, and take it as your normal gameplay. :bow:

Now I just need to find a new reason to vote for you. :evil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

Please note that if I do not respond to a question that is asked, it is because I do not want to comment on it, I am not ignoring you. I understand that there are lots of questions due to the unusual nature of this game, however some information you will simply have to discover for yourselves. You will forgive me if I refrain from commenting on the game except when I feel there is some aspect of the rules that needs to be clarified for it to operate properly. :bow:

---

You just admitted you're mafia.

(No worries, I fully understand.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Ah. Good, then I'm not crazy (or at least not for that reason).

I'll stop accusing you based on post style, then, which would sound decidedly scummy if anyone else said it, and take it as your normal gameplay. :bow:

---

Officially, I am not allowed to say for certain, because of the rules, but I think it was fair to say, I was well known for confessing my innocence, citing several sources by pro-town roles which indicated as such. I died a cowards death (well, Andres wrote it like that) when I duelled some one I suspected of being a mafia-role member.

This plan will not work because Caearians and Pompeiians are not their own faction =/

Move along now.

(OOC: I did notice your death was rather cowardly Beskar, maybe it was just his observation of your posting style and whatnot)


Well, I for one would like to see an organization of town groups, but with such unusual circumstances for senators and the groups, I doubt a single collective knowledge would help everyone.

Damn, I was right about Ichigo, curses. Sasaki should have followed my gut instinct instead of trying to get be lynched. Oh, just to clarify to the earlier mention, I can officially say I was innocent.

Back to the game, I just hope there aren't many causalities tonight.

Hmmm...anyone know of a woman from Bithynia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Damn, I was right about Ichigo, curses. Sasaki should have followed my gut instinct instead of trying to get be lynched. Oh, just to clarify to the earlier mention, I can officially say I was innocent.

Back to the game, I just hope there aren't many causalities tonight.

---

Confused :clown:?

Yaro, that sounds good in theory, but I'm not sure that it will actually work.