down with Pyrrhus down with the false king! great start, Antigonos Gonatas is a cool dude
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down with Pyrrhus down with the false king! great start, Antigonos Gonatas is a cool dude
To put him down I had to throw at him, one halved unit of Thessaloi cavalry, one Akontistai and my general.He first killed all my Thessaloi. :-sQuote:
Originally Posted by fomalhaut
I am at 263BC and mainly exploring the map, taking map info diplo agreements and growing my population which is a crucial part to get me going further.Deuteroi are a reliable unit, provided you keep their morale high and dont let them get surrounded.Epiros btw now sends stacks of thureophoroi, thorakitai and Chaeonion Agemas.The game is getting bigger :-P
Now I am about to go on the offensive.Antigonos already besieging a fort lost to Epirotes and then he is invading their lands.Yes great FM, pity though he starts a bit old.
Tylis with a type I government can't build factional units? Kinda confusing.
Tylis can only build Agr Assault Inf, plus later Reformed Phalanx, with a type I (at lvl4 native). All its troops come from Regional barracks, and are very nice, including Galatian H Spears, and Elite Thracians (at Lvl 4 regional).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksifos
So you need to knock that type I down, and build a type III or IV if you're going to use a client gov :)
EDIT: Same with Serdike. Build a type 3 GOV, build up the mines and regional barracks to LVL4, then knock the type 3 down and build a type I GOV.
i never lost pella i think you used the akontistai wrong remember to remove fire at will place them next to the door (not in front of it ) and wait for the ellies to arrive before start shooting them or enabling fire at will
the loss of the family member in pella means you´ll be reduced to 2 princes wich weakens your family sucessor line
also destroying the kh is wrong you can just get them to surrender (protectorate) or get tens of thousands of mnai for a peace agreament the 3-4 turns you take to conquer rhodes could be better used in serdike and naissos remember you need to secure your border against the getai with forts if they take naissos you´ll eventually go into a do or die war against their komatai and their basternae (dugundiz or something with the falx) wich will cost you alot of manpower that you don´t and can´t afford pella and demetrias are very deplected in terms of manpower and demetrias will be even more once you start recruiting the classical hoplites wich are extremly usefull to send against the barbarians before you can place your deuteroi
also remember to collect your 10.000 (sometimes you can get 15.000 or even tributes that instead of 4-10 turns you can extend up to 100 turns) mnai from the seulekids for a peace agreament
Drewski - I am confused :-P IIRC to have regional troops I need to establish a type IV government.Type III gives limited selection (kinda mixed, like some factional and some local).What is more confusing is that though I built, the type I government, the factional MIC DOES NOT produces units :-) So the regional MIC gives the units it supposed to, in full.For the moment and for purposes of identifying what's going on I will keep with the Type I and see how far I can go in terms of pumping local soldiers.I need to be able to recruit the Thrakioi Romphaiaphoroi, that's the goal.I am not yet into Sardike, so I will let you know.
Moonburn - I couldn't afford letting KH to live because they are direct competitors.We share the same goals.So they had to be out of the game.Also my early game goal was to capture all the sea trade routes on the Aegean meaning Athens (the most important one), Rodos, Crete, Sparta and boost my economy which was going deep in debt.So I did and now I am wealthy nation with a lot of options.Losing Pella for a couple of rounds was not a big problem and about FMs I checked in family tree, there are plenty of males waiting to get mature.I plan and hope to maintain the Argeades family throughout the whole game - tough I know :-)
** Protectorate doesnt mean they are out of the game, especially when you own their core provinces.In time they will gather strength and finally backstab you.
The same stands true for Epiros with one difference.They have devoloped quite well in the Italian peninsula, currently holding Taras, Rhegion, Arpi and Capua!
I am in peace and alliance with AS since round 1 and this hasn't change.But an army in Rodos is being recruited for taking Helikarnasos.Finally that will put me into a conflict with them.I checked diplo I am in war with Ptolemaioi too.They asked me for a Ceasefire which I rejected so that I wont give them the chance to put all the pressure on AS.Just not yet :-P
if you build a lvl 3 government, you can build up the regional barracks to lvl 4, which gives access to most of the units you need ;)
Concerning Serdike and Tylis:
1. Serdike is quite rebellious, while you´ll get no unrest in Tylis at all playing as Macs.
2. If you build Lvl.1 gouvernment you will get Thraikoi Doriophoroi ( Thracian levies, lvl 2 auxilla building ), that´s all, iirc
3. There are much more units than only Thracians, you get access to Celtic units in Tylis ( with lower level Kluddolon are available; also Keltohelenikoi Hoplitai, Galatrhakians, Galatian Heavies, and Leuke Epos ).
4. The mines in Serdike bring you doubled ammount of mnai ( 1200 vs. 600 in Tylis ).
Secure Naisos as Moonburn suggested. There are several advantages of doing this:
1. The mines there give you 1300 mnai per turn ( lvl 1 )
2. You can improve you recruitment pool of Thraician units
3. You are in controll of this long stretched peace of territory that "covers" Serdike and Tylis, which means you can concentrate your forces there, also controlling all the river crossings into Getai lands.
4. You will need Kallatis ( vic. conditions ), a greek Town, btw., and that land mass ( Naissos + Kallatis ) will exclude the Getai from the lucrative see trade ( while granting you the same ), and force them to move into the Celtic and/or Skythian lands towards Sweboz and Sauromatae. And you do not really want to fight Sauros. So, Kallatis can be a buffer town for quite a while, but since you are threatening the Getai directly infront of their house door, they will act much more carefully.
Concerning Pyrrhus: He is ambushing next to Pella - take your FM + garrison ( 1 Deutheroi, 1 Akonkistai, 1 Sphendonetai, 1 Thessalians ) and move them towards Pella; you´ll be attacked by Pyrrrhus ambushing force and can achieve an easy heroic victory, cause the eles do not stand a chance against your skirmisher power, and your cavalry, if used right, will crush Pyrrhus budyguards; deploy your forces well and you´ll get the high ground advantage, too.
Guys with gov Type I in Tylis:
- Factional MIC lvl1: nothing
- regional MIC lvl2: Gaeroas, Galatikoi Kludolon, Lugoae, laosatae, Thraikioi Doryphoroi
It is confusing beacuse shouldn't it allow only factional units? I need to expand Tylis (currently going for 1st town level) to see if lvl3 MIC allows more local types.
Also AFAIK Type 3 has certain advantages (like economic boost and law) but produces high unrest.Right?
Overall I want to see if Type I allows the level4 regional MIC, hence Thraikioi Romphaiaphoroi are recruitable.
Changed plans, instead of invading minor Asia, I am now expanding on the north.Unfortunately Getai already took Kallatis and that is an issue as leaves me no choice but to attack them.I was hoping for a peacuful co-existance with them like in my KH game :-/
On round 1 I concentrated all my forces on capturing Athens and Sparta.It was deliberate to risk Pella, which Pyrrhus attacked next round (with his elephants) and of course left me no chances to defend it.Just a different approach. ;-)
About 253BC:
- Captured Ambrakia
- Besieging and ready to attack Sardike
- Gathering army so that Antigonos takes Epidamnos and throw Epirotes from Greece
Question: Does anybody know when are Macedonian military reforms happening and what are the prerequisites for it to happen? I wouldn't like NOT to happen :-)
since the epirotes took capua i would say around 180 bc if the romans hang on to rome and arretium XD
also you can kill pyrrhus by going around your city walls and let him suffer archer fire in the back from the defense towers using either your hetaroi or your thessaloi i normally only engage on the opposite side of where his army is and always but always with a defence tower shooting him in the back while i wait with my hetaroi in case he decides to flee i can run him down (fresh hetaroi vs exausthed epirote bg´s )
what i meant with destroying kh is that you lost many precious turns when you could have take control of the entire balkans up to segestica by 267bc wich includes dalminion with it´s 5.400 mnai from mines once you develop it to lv2 mines (you might have to disband and move around akontistai to get it to a decent size setlement) also place lv4 goverments in tylis and naissos the elite thrakian and galatian units will come on handy as for kh once as takes hallikarnassus it might rebel to the kh so you had a chance there to delay the war for long but without kh your best chance to shuffle things in mikra asia is ankyra (edui or arverni)
Check out the FAQ. The Macedonians have only one "reform": the March of Time event that gives them a new, high-end phalanx unit. It changes nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksifos
The government type does not directly determine what units you can recruit: it limits the level of factional & regional MICs you can construct.
Type I : factional 5 / regional 2
Type II: factional 4 / regional 3
Type III:factional 3 / regional 4
Type IV:factional 2 / regional 5
Certain provinces may be type I, but you will only get factional units in the higher levels MICs. Check out the EB recruitment viewer (should be inside your installation folder, but you can find a less up-to-date one on the EB website) to see what you can recruit in certain provinces. As far as recruitment goes: type III is almost always better than type IV since there are almost no regional units that still require a level 5 regional MIC.
herm ludens in places like hallikarnassus and ankyra and emporion just to name a few you defently need a lv4 or else it wil eventually rebel and you find yourself at war with a faction right in the midle and heart of your empire while you´re armies are all down south kicking up the ptolomaioi arse or far east killing romans and you´ll spend the next 16 to 20 turns tryig to cope with that because you sudendly lost 5k mnai out of your turnly budget while the rebels starts a campaign blocking important coast cities further sliming your earnings
also the vollorige are amazing wall defenders last batles i fighted on walls they kill by themselfs over 600 pedites extraordinary hastati or whatever elite assault infantry the besiegers send at you so extremly precious on border regions (special note i always place them defending lather places not towers so it may depend)
Carthage being a notable exception, to get reforms you need 5 lvl 5 regional mics -.- learned that the hard way after not reading reform instructions thorougly xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
True; I was talking about recruitment only. Sorry for not being clear.
I am trying to find the info you described here because in my installation folder I can't find it (IIRC I chose not to install it ).But only thing I can get is info about the unit and not the recruitment conditions.
To add to what moonburn says, Type III adds enormous unhappiness but maybe you can compensate with happiness buildings.You were right about Type I in areas like Tylis and Sardike but then I thought I could 'cheat' building the most of my factional buildings, then demolish it and build the Type III or IV to get to the regional troops.Can this be done?
So far my campaign runs smoothly but its so easy :-/
I am able to field PURE elite armies like Argyraspidai, Agrianai, Makedonkoi Peltastai, etc
Its fun though because I have tons of money and can do almost anything in terms of bribery :-P
yes you can ksifos alot of people do the oposite they build type4 and when they finally can´t build anymore in the provinces change it to type 1
The Macedonian type III government IIRC has more penalties than other factions' type III's, so yes, it isn't very good.
Are you sure the Recruitment viewer is not inside your EB folder? I don't have EB on this computer, but if I recall correctly it's either named RV.exe or install_rv.exe If not, there is a version available here. Neither version is entirely up to date, but the one on the EB website is older. That one does contain the unit-cards, however.
Thanks Ludens, installed and ran it.According to it Makedonia can produce Elite Thracian Infantry (Romphaiaphoroi) in Native MIC level 4 (?!?).
With KH I am 100% sure I needed to build Regional MIC to have that unit.
I need a level 5 regional in Singidunum to get Scordisci.Other than that level 5 is of no purpose.
Moonburn you 're right.Building the Type IV first is more beneficial.
Just a question.In my Casse game, when I built Type IV I always recruited "puppet" generals.They normally have a long life, so if I finish all the buildings I need (normally regional baracks) what happens if I establish a Type I while the puppet is in charge? Does he get any sort of penalties?
Yes. He gets a penalty that affects the public order of the city, similar to but more severe than the "Interloper" trait that FM's get from being in a T4 government city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksifos
Yea, it's called Impostor and you don't want one of those, trust me, they'll make your cities rebel...
And, if it's too easy for you, housrule yourself.. even if you CAN build all elite armies, don't do... Build realistic armies with maybe 1-2 elite units
no reason to have any let alone many elites before 15 years. elite units are created from war, not trained like any city militia. Agryaspides didn't leave Macedonia as such, but as the original numbers dwindled they formed that group as a way to distinguish their super veteran status. that's what i do as well, no Agryaspides or other fancy units until i have been at war for a while, signifying that the distinguished fighters from my armies were pooled together.
thing i am liking about Celtic faction is that there aren't many elite units, just a wide pool of 'pretty good' units. yes they get the ultimate unit, the Gaesatae, but no one should ever have more than one of them ever.
ID SAY ALPINE PHALANX AND HELVETII PHALANX ARE MY FAVORITE PIKEMEN IF THEY WORKED :'(
My game is 'no rules' :-P
On a serious note, I 've already eliminated KH, limited Epiros to one province (Rhegion) and am unsure whether to eliminate them or gift them a province in Scythia to let them be and as of lately on my invasion of Minor Asia, I deal with a joint operation from AS and Ptolemaioi.Yes the former enemies are pushing me back towards the Aigaion Pelagos, hehe.
The most amusing of this "alliance" is that if you look at their allies, Ptolemaioi are allied to Baktria and Pahlava WHO are enemies to AS :-P
Makedonia owns the Balkans up to the Dunav line, half the Italian Peninsula (up to Rome) and our recent acquisitions were Pergamos, Helikarnasos and Nikaia defecting to us (that put us in war with the AS).
Elite armies...well, a typical composition of what I call "Elite Army" would be:
- at least 4 Argyraspidai
- 6~8 Pezhetairoi
- 2 Agrianai
- 2 Makedonikoi Peltastai
- 2 Thesaloi
- 2 Prodromoi
- one FM in charge (only Argeades allowed to lead such armies)
Still it is not invicible.I had a terrible defeat with such an army near Rhegion.The Epirotes fought admirably heroically, defending their Capital with both their faction leader and heir leading their forces.Since Sicily is included in the "Victory conditions" Carthage is waiting in the queue.They already brought a full stack near Syracuse which I recently conquered.
My alliances with Romanii and Getai are paying off as my north border is safe - for the time being...
So the let the game begin ;-)
PS - I love the look of Alpine Phalanx and always used them due to their top charge bonus.
i just can´t like alpine phallanx and i´m playing an arverni campaign atm after my epirote campaign and my kh campaign got too boring
1/3 of my army are belgians like it should be and it´s mostly composed of caturiges naked spearman botoroas and the southern type not much cavalry except for fm´s and the ocasional recruited leucos epos i use slingers and no sataroas except for again the mercs
it´s been fun i tricked the romans northern army into taking a fort sieged it the next day took it with a spy and then took segesta quickly my original plan was to take arretium fast and raze that place to the ground but the romans amassed a 2nd army and stoped me on my tracks (must be the roman garrison since their other 2 armies where in the south)
overall it´s a good campaign altough if it wasn´t for the tribute i got initially from the romans (1750 mnai a turn) and the one from the sweaboz (3250mnai a turn) i would have never had left debt
the original plan worked nicely i sent all the leucos epos to join the general and besieged helvetia by turn 2 (after some proper cavarly management and tactics i won ) while on turn 3 i had amassed all my armies into 1 and besieged bibactre wich took me 7 turns to fall altough it was good fun making a proper plan i fortified the mainz and the pirynees and the alps even before i conquered my 6th region avaricum (wich had just been taken by the aedui)
another important aspect is that ankyra rebelled to me in the meantime and it enabled me to create a grand gallatian army and i sacked ipsos sardis and took nikaia wich was a nice cash boom for my initial clash with the backstabing romans altough most of those earnings where spent hiring sataroas iosatae and southern swordman to pump up population in my most loyal gaulish setlements (recruit mercs and disband them in the setlements) another importan action i had to take was to move my capital to bibactree it takes almost 25 years (100 turns) before belgium is pacified properly and even then
Having played a considerable amount of "pikemen vs pikemen" battles, I want to verify the "slope advantage".But AI seems to exploit this feat, as if he is AWARE of it.If that is true then we speak of deliberate programming rather than ...a bug.
Please confirm.
not necessarily a deliberate programming feature, remember correlation =/= causation. the AI will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS put itself on a hill, even if its a puny one on the plains before Athens. the exploit then reveals itself but it was just a coincidence, not deliberate.
the AI puts itself on a hill for 100 reasons, fatigue, greater range, hills are hard to walk up, etc but knowingly exploiting the broken phalanx isn't one of them.
What I mean is that this feat applies to even a slight grade and the AI seems to exploit these "opportunities" to his benefit.It's not about going for the hill which I find it normal.
Also when your army is deployed on a hill, the AI sometimes will try to hit from the lowest angle possible.That is what made me sceptical of the "AI awareness" and this being deliberately programmed.
The AI doesn't know about that "exploit" it just isn't a human player so it can't really see the difference between a hill and an almost unnoticable slope. It thinks it's a high point and thus deploys there
Allow me to disagree :-)
The slope, hill or whatever angle, is just a mathematical algorithm.So the AI can exactly identify the morphology of the terrain.If of course it is programmed to.
Yes, that's what I meant, I don't think it is programmed to see the difference between a slope and a mighty hill. It just notices different heights and deploys on the higher point, even if it's just slightly higher