Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

Awesome job, Ishmael, on both the campaign and the AAR chapter. Great stuff. Athens kinda "exploded" here...territory roughly doubled? Some great battles...nearly 4000 kills at Pessinus, and I'm sure that Cronos' defeat was a bloodbath as well. Kudos to Spears of Ares.

Seems to me the Civil War erupted rather early, even if we'd basically been ignoring politics. Had we hit 3rd Imperium? Also surprised to see 9/6 armies/fleets. Is that difficulty level related, or did I perhaps miss one of the Patch 5 notes (my last CW occurred during Patch 4, on Normal difficulty).

@Myth, a proposal for "on the fly" rule change: How about a player who inherits a 60+ yr old FL has the option (not obligation) to play the following FL as well? "60" might be a tad early, maybe 62-63ish? I understand part of the concept is that some players will have shorter reigns than others...but I'd like to see each guy in rotation have opportunity to play at least 10-15 turns. Lysimachus is already on borrowed time; next player might have less than 5 turns. Sometimes a character will go into early 70s...but I've also had natural causes kill an FL in early 60s...youngest outlier I've noticed was about 58.

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Originally Posted by easytarget

That's actually encouraging to hear. So, which faction are you playing?

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Royal Scythia.

Also idk if it is me or SP4 as he was supposed to be before me. If it is me that really sucks cuz ill get a dead ruler lol

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Originally Posted by Kamakazi

Also idk if it is me or SP4 as he was supposed to be before me. If it is me that really sucks cuz ill get a dead ruler lol

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Well, Sp4 posted not to expect him back til Wednesday (6 Nov, I assume). I'm not running this thing, but my suggestion would be to keep going with the rotation, and then Sp4 gets re-inserted into the order whenever he returns.

I concur about the nearly-dead Faction Leader. Hence my proposal above.

well I guess well wait to see what myth says

Great Job Ishmael!!! Very satisfying to see the expansion continue, and Straton dies a happy man knowing that even though he was cut down in his prime right at the kick off point of pursuing his dream, his successor more than pushed forward on Africa but additionally created a firm foothold of multiple provinces on that continent!

The Civil War did come quite early, that's quite interesting. I played on from the end of my turns and took Africa as well in my campaign but kept the politics balanced between the Oligarchs and myself and I don't foresee it coming soon (that said, it's probably just as well to get it knocked out early, it'll only get worse down the road).

As for how long someone's rule is, mine was only 20 years, so they do sometimes come at you quite short. Perhaps if someone goes below 20 they should go back into the rotation for another turn, for example if the next guy does actually get only about 5 years rule they should be back in the list for another go.

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Originally Posted by Sp4

I would have thought it would say that, if it's any culture other than your own. It says owning faction's.. so if you own it.. yours? Right?

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The culture bonuses are labeled "Latin” or “Hellenic”, etc. As Rome, I get rid of any non-Latin culture exponents.

I have allowed a temple of Poseidon to remain standing on Rhodes, however. It gives 6 food, +2 PO and “level 2 ship hulls (+10% health) upon recruitment”. Despite saying “upon recruitment” upgrading is possible for any fleet in port. No downsides that I can see. I never plan to knock it down. We know he’s Neptune!

I also have an inn at Massalia that gives me 12 food and +2 experience for all new agents. This one stays, too.

p.s. Alien cultures do deny you any garrison forces you might otherwise get from your own replacement.

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Originally Posted by Bramborough

Well, Sp4 posted not to expect him back til Wednesday (6 Nov, I assume). I'm not running this thing, but my suggestion would be to keep going with the rotation, and then Sp4 gets re-inserted into the order whenever he returns.

I concur about the nearly-dead Faction Leader. Hence my proposal above.

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I will be back home/available on Thursday, 7th November. If the game is still going by then and if everyone is okay with it, I'd like to get back in then. If not, I'd like to take part in the next one :D

Thanks for your responses guys!

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Originally Posted by Bramborough

Awesome job, Ishmael, on both the campaign and the AAR chapter. Great stuff. Athens kinda "exploded" here...territory roughly doubled? Some great battles...nearly 4000 kills at Pessinus, and I'm sure that Cronos' defeat was a bloodbath as well. Kudos to Spears of Ares.

Seems to me the Civil War erupted rather early, even if we'd basically been ignoring politics. Had we hit 3rd Imperium? Also surprised to see 9/6 armies/fleets. Is that difficulty level related, or did I perhaps miss one of the Patch 5 notes (my last CW occurred during Patch 4, on Normal difficulty).

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10 regions to 28 regions - territory nearly tripled! I'm pretty proud of that. As for the civil war, I tend to completely ignore politics (I don't quite 'get' it yet), which probably contributed to its earlier triggering. If I recall correctly we were not yet at third imperium, and the balance of political power was about 50/50. I think the number of armies and fleets must also be difficulty based - since my only previous long game has been as Parthia on Normal, I was used to dealing with six armies and no fleets. The latter took a little getting used to in this game!

As for succession of old characters...I don't know. It probably wouldn't be fair of my to weigh in anyway, given that I've already had a very substantive turn. I do feel that people who have their ruler die early should have some means of playing this a bit more, whether it be continuing straight on or going back in the queue for another go.

well I haven't picked up the game save. I want to get a for sure answer on what were doing here

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Originally Posted by Sp4

Why tear it down asap? Does it actually spread another faction's influence?

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There's no need to have a main settlement upgraded higher than tier 1 as it only brings in expenses and a PO hit at higher levels but it produces nothing of value in the long term. You can upgrade it only if you really need upgraded roads in that province or if you have food and PO to spare and want more growth and gold.

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Originally Posted by Ishmael

So far so good (*knock on wood*). Very Hard difficulty isn't quite the nightmare that I'd envisaged - I'd heard reports in Rome 1 that cavalry could often smash pike phalanxes from the front on that difficulty, but it seems in Rome 2 that superior troop quality, if managed passably well, usually wins the day. I estimate I'm about two thirds of the way through my reign, so expect an AAR today or tomorrow.

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You are mixing up campaign difficulty and battle difficulty in Rome 1. For campaign difficulty, anything below normal made the AI gradually like you more. Normal was neutral. On H and VH it gradually hated you more, and it got a flat bonus of gold per turn (I think around 3000 but it might vary by faction). Battle difficulty gave your troops extra morale, attack and defence below Normal, it was even at Normal level, on H the AI got 3attack/3defence and some extra morale. On VH it racked up to 7 Att/Def and a lot more morale. So you can see how with the Rome 1 values (where units had between 5 and 20 attack and defence total) a flat increase of 7 to both would make a huge difference. You would see peasants routing Hastati for example. In Rome 2 the difficulty slider adds Ai bonuses but they are not hard stats and nothing as insane as in Rome 1. It must be noted also, that this gamey +7 att/def bonus was only a problem early on. Once you got to your elite troops you could still win handily, plus routing enemies with a good rear charge still worked despite the morale bonus, and the AI was much more prone to suiciding its general, thus breaking morale was usually the most cost-effective way to win.

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Originally Posted by easytarget

Cool, look forward to seeing what twist and turns developed!!!

I continued on from where I left off and pressed through in completing the take over of Africa and the beginnings of the expansion into the Italian peninsula.

Always fascinating to see the ebb and flow of faction power, sometimes to your advantage, sometimes not. In my case, Carthage after expanding aggressively has now started to come a bit undone.

As for difficulty, I still maintain adamantly that Rome 2 is not nearly as challenging as Shogun 2. There are clans in Shogun 2 that you can play on H and VH that if you make just one wrong decision early on your dead. Or long term if you allow the wrong clan to gain too much control you have a fight on your hands to finish the victory conditions before time runs out. Here in Rome 2, any time I feel pressed, I just sit back and consolidate, no one attacks me. In Shogun 2 I'm lucky on H and VH if I can go 4 turns w/o multiple clans attacking me from multiple directions at once or successively before you can recover. In Rome 2 I can count on one finger in 150 hours the number of times I've been declared on, it finally just happened in the current campaign I'm continuing on with while waiting for your AAR.

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I agree that some starts in Shogun II legendary felt nigh on impossible. However, several factions in Rome II when played on Legendary will also have quite a tough start, and one that would vary depending on your choices. Especially diplomacy and troop recruitment/disbandment.

I agree that inheriting a very old FL will be underwhelming. I propose a simple rule: each player must play out the full term of their original faction leader, but if said term is smaller than 15 turns, then they can play up to the difference (to get at least 15 turns) from the next FL's lifespan and then pass him over. This will prevent someone getting a 60 year old guy, play him for 5 turns and then getting a 20 year old who lives until 60, because a lot will change in 45 turns.

BTW @Ishmael great job on such rapid expansion and effectively crippling the civil war armies! Though I must note that upon fresh conquests I always restructure the infrastructure there. There is little gain in conquering new lands if they are not optimized to fit into one's empire and to supply its needs.

So myth who is next up in this rotation? is it me or are we waiting on sp4 ?

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I agree that inheriting a very old FL will be underwhelming. I propose a simple rule: each player must play out the full term of their original faction leader, but if said term is smaller than 15 turns, then they can play up to the difference (to get at least 15 turns) from the next FL's lifespan and then pass him over. This will prevent someone getting a 60 year old guy, play him for 5 turns and then getting a 20 year old who lives until 60, because a lot will change in 45 turns.

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That sounds reasonable. Athens has already reached a point where 15 turns is a pretty decent chunk of play....it's a good minimum.

@Kamakazi

Check page 1 its your turn.

Ill pick it up tomorrow.... gotta go to my gfs before she murders me....

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Originally Posted by Myth

There's no need to have a main settlement upgraded higher than tier 1 as it only brings in expenses and a PO hit at higher levels but it produces nothing of value in the long term. You can upgrade it only if you really need upgraded roads in that province or if you have food and PO to spare and want more growth and gold.

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I upgrade because I can. I want to see the full assortment of things in the game, and by mid game with my focus almost exclusively on economy, I've had income running at 15-20k a turn, after awhile, money simply isn't an issue any more. The only thing that slows me down from maxing every settlement on the map is food and squalor, not money.

I tend to upgrade to level 3 on walled settlements because that gives more settlement defenses, which makes it easier to defend against large number of enemies. That really is the main reason I guess. Also because at that level the squalor and food consumption, provided you managed the other villages correctly, isnt bad enough for me to not do it.

Yeah, same here, I can't ever really get'em past 3 in most of the provinces, not because of money as I said, but just because squalor or food get in the way.

It's really a bit strange, at least to me, that CA has in effect with these two restrictions on build out made it so I miss out on 1/4th of everything they put into the game in the way of settlement development, because where the rubber meets the road in an actual campaign, I'm either on the edge on squalor or food.

But you know what, while I'm thinking about it, in my current campaign I'll get up say a million in the bank and instead of just collecting more money I'll crank down taxes which will ease the strain on the settlements and give me the ability to max'em out a bit more. Should of thought of that sooner.

Again, for no reason other than I like to see what's in the game.

Oh, and yeah, I get 3's on settlements for defense so the army can wander off w/o worrying too much about being forced to hang around.

Level IV cities/towns are quite viable...but only if they're the last thing upgraded in the province. Can't support them on level III farms/temples/theaters, etc. Maybe one, but not all the towns in a province.

By the time all the necessary techs are researched, however, it's usually pretty late in the game. The empire is large enough that money probably isn't an issue. So yeah, there's probably no need to build them. By the same token, at that stage of the game, what else is there to spend the money on? Army and agent caps are maxed out.

And anyway, it's fun. Got Africa cranking out 10K/turn on normal taxes during Pontus AAR game, and then later went on to meet the 80K/turn eco-victory condition on low tax rate. Mainly due to having Level IV capitals and resource towns. Even the regular market towns were at least Level III, and many of them were Level IV as well.

ok uhh who can tell me how to upload the save file? My turn is done

So, was it natural causes or war that got him?

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Originally Posted by Kamakazi

ok uhh who can tell me how to upload the save file? My turn is done

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Just zip/rar the file, go here, and click 'upload file' (top left).

Looking forward to the AAR!

The Reign of Lysimachus 175-159BC (15 Turns)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/DxdQeME.jpg
A young mind awakend an old body. A rough wave awoke Lysimachus from his dreams. Just a year ago his brother Aegon had died. And not a day went past that it hurt any less. His task was to unite the world under a growing Athens banner. Like all those before him he would not fail.

Aegon had died before he could put down the civil war that was dividing the country. Fools, Lysim thought. How could anyone think to throw down our family? Ill finish my forbearers work. Quickly the old admiral sent orders to his generals: Crush this enemy. Destroy his heart, tear out his soul! I want them gone!

https://i.imgur.com/mYIP0XK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eInEj5C.jpg



Victories were all that were known while dispatching the rebels. Their navies stood no chance. And likewise their armies fell in quick succession. Though they did not go without a fight. It took Lysimachus and his generals many battles to finally bring them to their end.
https://i.imgur.com/PfKsDUi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aKmbqO7.jpg



After the quelling of the civil war Lysimachus was at a loss. What to do he wondered.... Where should we go next? It was decided that Triballi, to the north, was an easy target. All it took was but one campaign to bring them to their knees. A single army stormed the castle and won victory.
https://i.imgur.com/7H1VTmn.jpg



Next it was Macedon. A re-emerging country, to weak to make it in the days of old, tried to resurface. "The weak should stay where they belong!" Lysim exclaimed. And so it was. Macedon was crushed beneath Athens hoplite hordes.
https://i.imgur.com/4amTv2k.jpg



Small meaningless states brought no glory...... Athens needed a challenge. They needed a good fight in order to bring glory and honor the gods.

Pontus.....

Those eastern weaklings had been coddled for far to long. Done is our non aggression. If they cant be our equals, they don't deserve to live. And shortly war was declared on Pontus.

The first battle in the Pontic campaign was fought at the Pontic town of Ancrya. Lysimachus fully expected a long siege, or even a bloody assault. Instead he was greeted with a sally and a glorious fight on the field! Maybe, Lysim thought, just maybe this will be the glorious conquest he envisioned. Between Pontus and their allies Trapezos maybe they had enough to give us a fight. The Athenian generals took to the field. They were ready to test this Pontic foe. Long had they heard of the legendary Pontic swordsman. But what good would that do against the hoplite phalanx?
https://i.imgur.com/DZPl7fS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KilVjJh.jpg


The battle was over. Far to soon. Far to easily. Pontic swordsmen.... Bah more like Pontic sheep. Weak and untrained.

Soon after the fall of Ancrya came the combination assault, by naval and ground forces, on Sinope.
https://i.imgur.com/lT0OiGf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5dVuw4I.jpg


Taking to the waters Lysimachus ordered his fleet into the attack. Strings of the heavy ballista thrummed as bolts arced and met the hulls of the Pontic warships. Several were sunk before they were even reached by the boarding parties. The naval battle culminated in the mass sinking of the enemy navy. The screams of drowning Pontic soldiers was like music to Lysimachus' ears.
https://i.imgur.com/hmbUU78.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GObGFAE.jpg


With the enemy navy out of the way the foot units of Athens stormed the beach to the rear of the Pontic army, effectively creating a second front in which they had to defend. With the cavalry creating a soft third front the town was totally surrounded. No one was to come out alive. Alas it was far to much for the Pontic army to handle. They were destroyed by the three pronged assault. Death followed each screaming Pontic soldier.
https://i.imgur.com/vjTgt9X.jpg


The Athenian war machine rolled on. Athens took Amaesia next. It was a simple battle. Yet another route in this pitiful war. Lysimachus was overjoyed at the expansion of his empire. He beamed from ear to ear and was proud of his warriors and generals alike. One battle was all it took to crush Trapezos.
https://i.imgur.com/qKAzkHu.jpg


Lysimachus was 75 years old after the defeat of Trapezos. So he called his brother Prochoros to him. Always it had been thus. The older admiral and his younger brother. The Admiral and the General. They spent a long time talking. "It will soon be my time to die brother" Lysim said " and you must carry on my vision. You must put down this Pontic threat and go on to greater things!" Agreements were made and as the night grew cold Lysimachus went to sleep.


Never again did his brother wake. Prochoros stood in the sun and pondered all that his brother had told him but a night before. He would continue his brothers work. He would throw down Pontus and then he would throw down anyone else who was in his way.
https://i.imgur.com/pdqHMud.jpg


Ten years younger than his older brother Prochoros became king at age 55. Neigh a stranger to battle. He was a six star general. Beaten and bloodied many times. He had the best army of Athenian brothers that had ever been fielded. He trusted every man., even knew a lot of them by name. Prochoros continued his brothers work. But in his own image. He quickly decided subdue Ardhan. Sending two of his generals to surround and destroy them. After a single bloody battle it was over. Ardhan was gone.
https://i.imgur.com/hjQ3Dp9.jpg


Prochoros continued to hammer his Pontic foes all the way back to Ektabana. The last hold of the once mighty Pontic empire. An empire once stretching a good chunk of the Middle East. Three Athenian armies stood out side of the gates. Ready to assault it. Prochoros gave the order. It was a beautifully sunny day. To bad it had to be sullied by war.
https://i.imgur.com/NMiTscy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J5cfGcm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5CEIxPN.jpg


The Fighting was both on the walls and through them. Hoplites tore down the gates and breached the walls with ladders. Burning oil poured upon the Athenian attackers but it didn't matter. The walls were mounted by hoplites who then flanked the gate defenders. Athenian archers posted on the walls raining death from the heavens.
https://i.imgur.com/mz3IG1K.jpg


Entering the city more defenders tried to rally. One group of hoplites were cut off and surrounded but were eventually saved. Even the Pontic chariots were no match for the Athenian army. They barely put a dent in a hoplite unit before being routed. After a long battle the enemies finally routed. Fleeing from the very gates they swore to hold only the morning before.


https://i.imgur.com/NQ2kk9L.jpg

*I took 15 Turns no more.
*I doubled the income of the empire
*I created 2 new armies and came very close to the next stage of imperium
*IMO strike north towards the horde
*Oh btw I unnamed the eighth army. It was killing my immersion, sorry.
* This was great fun I hope to get a longer turn next time though =/
*Ill post up the link for the save as soon as I figure out how the hell it works.

yea I tried going to that area you linked but it doesn't give me any option to upload a file only download those already there

I believe if you go to the advanced post option you can add an attachment. Should be on the top row, next to the smilies.

Also I believe that @Veho Nex is next?

Nice job Kamakazi.

"The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. And you have burned so very, very brightly.."

Tried that as well... wont let me upload all it does is give the icon but never actually uploads it

BTW ty easy =)

So try this: http://www.mediafire.com/

Nice work Kamakazi! I'm glad to see Prochoros became faction leader, he's just an all-round badass. I'm also glad to see the Athenian Empire spreading to the east, recreating the glory of Alexander. Good stuff.

attempting that now... do the pics on my aar look messed up to anyone else but me?

http://www.mediafire.com/?60ido8jt8lb11lg

@VehoNex

Nah they look fine. Great job by the way, Athens really got large, cant wait for my turn!