Haters gonna hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
https://i.imgur.com/9JSk0Dm.jpg
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Haters gonna hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
https://i.imgur.com/9JSk0Dm.jpg
So, when they disagree with you they're sheeple?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
And since you don't believe I should boycott a company over gay rights, what behaviour justifies a boycott in your opinion? Or should we just continue buying stuff without any thought given to company behaviour?
Making shoddy product/service, illegal business practices, etc. You know, the stuff that actually has something to do with the product that the company produces.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
How does an illegal business practice affect their product?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Anyway, why am I not allowed to boycott the company for any other reasons? Why should I be forced to buy stuff from people I don't like? Why should I have to buy stuff from a company support, say, Al-Qaida or has publicly supported the idea that 9/11 was done by Mossad?
Depends on the specifics, but being illegal is enough to warrant a boycott.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Who says you're not allowed? You're most certainly allowed. If you wanna bleat with the rest of them, go ahead and bleat to your heart's content. In the meantime I will call this bleating for what it is.Quote:
Anyway, why am I not allowed to boycott the company for any other reasons? Why should I be forced to buy stuff from people I don't like? Why should I have to buy stuff from a company support, say, Al-Qaida or has publicly supported the idea that 9/11 was done by Mossad?
I can't see how this attitude does not put you in the category of "sheeple".Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
How, exactly, am I a "sheeple" for staying informed about company profiles and making my economic decisions based on how I view their contribution to the wider society? Why should I only care about filling their coffers, and nothing else?
Because you're operating within the same mindset as the sheep that were boycotting The Dixie Chicks back ten years ago or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
No, my mindset is promoting corporate welfare at your expense. Quite different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
So your opinion then is that I should mindlessly buy stuff without thinking about who my purchases support. And if I don't, I'm sheeple. Brilliant logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
You have the right not to purchase the goods or services of any company and for any reason.
As long as you do not advocate violence, you also have the right to persuade others to boycott the organization in question. Arguably, depending on your code of ethics, it may be a moral duty for you to do so and not to simply refrain from that organization yourself.
Chick-Fil-A stays closed on Sundays. If people find this Christian-centric choice on their part to be inappropriate, then they should stop buying the chicken sandwiches. If enough folks stop, then Chick-Fil-A closes. If Chick-Fil-A counters with an ad campaign that says "proud to be a Christian chicken shop" or whatever, then the ad campaign may knock the boycott flat. All part of the game.
Public pressure, social media version, sponsored/propelled by a website with its own agenda, got this guy ousted. Apparently, Mozilla got scared and thought they would lose enough market share to knuckle under. I think they made the wrong call, but it was their call to make.
I work in academe. We actually still encourage the exchange of opposing viewpoints without squelching the opposition.
From this website's perspective, however, this was nothing but a win. Their agenda item is front and center and every social-media sensitive organization was just served notice to toe the line with our agenda or we will squelch you. The Constitution protects the freedom of speech...from government. If you want to boycott a person or group for their views you can. If you can swing it, you can crush them and leave them broken and rule by fear of your clout. Tacky, but within your rights. It's not as though the NRA hasn't been doing much the same in Congress for years.
You're arguing against someone who apparently believes that a Jew who doesn't want to buy stuff from a neo-nazi is a sheep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
I think it's quite safe to assume he's not entirely aware of what his interests are.
No, he's arguing against someone who thinks that what is currently going on in California is a witch hunt. And to me it makes no difference whether the witch hunt has been initiated by a group of concerned citizens, a committee on un-American activities or The Ministry for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice. It's still a witch hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
P.S. Godwin stronk.
You generalized your opinion on the previous page to state that actions unrelated to the quality of the product or the legality of the business are never grounds for a boycott.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Is this inaccurate?
You just compared a group of private citizens making a personal choice against Mozilla with a real government entity (committee on un-american activities) and a fake government entity (ministry of silly walks and virtue).Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
There's really a committee of un-American activities or something to that effect?Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
What does it do? What activities are considered un-American?
I don't think it makes much difference for the Mozilla guy whether or not he got fired because of the effort of a government agency or a group of californians. BTW, The Ministry for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice is very real. It was and still is active in Taliban held areas of Afghanistan as well as in Saudi Arabia.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
No, that's very accurate. so?Quote:
You generalized your opinion on the previous page to state that actions unrelated to the quality of the product or the legality of the business are never grounds for a boycott.
Is this inaccurate?
So, that would mean that you consider a Jew who refuses to shop at the local neo-nazi store to be a sheep. Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Cold war had all these committees with cool names, and what do we have now? Committee for chicken protection (I know there's got to be one like that).
No wonder we're in decline as a species...
Ok, I'll accept that one as semi-cool. When they start to act like the Spanish inquisition, I'll promote them to cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Please stop your exaggerations, there would never be an organization like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Oh, God Almighty, spare us the misery and finish us off now.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Ignorance once again, Sven? Not sheep - sheeple. Half sheep-half people. Best of both worlds. They graze on the pastures but democratically elect their sheepleherder.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
What's he supposed to be buying in the neo-nazi store, swastikas? Give me more information about this hypothetical case.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Let's say it's your run-of-the-mill grocery store, with slightly lower prices than the store across the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Run by the local head of the national-socialist party. Should a Jew be compelled to shop at his store?
Of course! He's a Jew for Christ's sake, they really know a good deal when they see one.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
All the joking aside, this is America. Here you will find Neo Nazis asking a 90% Jewish ACLU to defend the Neo Nazis' right to march through a Jewish neighborhood of a Chicago suburb. And you will see the ultra liberal ACLU help Nazis get their right to march so that they can offend the residents of the heavily Jewish neighborhood of Skokie. America is like that. Witch hunts belong in the 1950s.
That's civil rights organizations behaving like they should(and like they do in most places), and just like you found the ACLU standing up for anyone's right to free speech, you will also find organizations who refuse to deal with certain segments. But this hardly relates to an individual consumer's choice of where to shop his salmon.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
So I ask again: should the individual Jewish man shop at a grocery store run by a neo-nazi? And more to the point, is he a sheep if he chooses not to?
Also, a "Jew for Christ's sake"....hmmm.....
Of course he should.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
A sheep and a fool.Quote:
And more to the point, is he a sheep if he chooses not to?
I'm sorry rvg. But that is just silly. The market and the public sphere are not two distinguishable entities. The former is a subsection of the latter. A Jewish man is being perfectly rational in thinking that he does not want his money in part to be directed towards an individual (e.g. through salary) who believes and acts according to a philosophy that rejects his status as a citizen and a human being.
The fact is this, what people choose to do with their money earned is their business. They may go about donating to whatever cause they want. It is also a fact that this money comes from the business for which they work for (in general). Therefore, if you wish to declare a boycott on a company in order to prevent the possible promotion of undesirable causes, then again, it is the individuals choice to not spend his/her own money and they are not a fool for choosing to do so.
That's a poultry excuse for an organization. :drummer:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
With that line of thinking in mind a Jew should never do business with a Muslim. Ever. Not buy from him, not sell to him, not hire one, nor work for one. Who is being silly here?Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I never disputed the legality of it. Lots of stupid things are completely legal. Suppose you're drowning near some pier in the San Francisco Bay. You're wearing your "No to Prop 8!" T-shirt, "I love hemp" panama hat, and whatever else a liberal hippy would normally wear. Then there comes a Jack-booted Nazi thug with his "Sieg Heil" tattoos, brown shirt and a swastika lapel pin. You clearly see who he is and he clearly sees who you are. He extends his hand and offers help. Will you take his hand or will you choose to drown?Quote:
The fact is this, what people choose to do with their money earned is their business. They may go about donating to whatever cause they want. It is also a fact that this money comes from the business for which they work for (in general). Therefore, if you wish to declare a boycott on a company in order to prevent the possible promotion of undesirable causes, then again, it is the individuals choice to not spend his/her own money and they are not a fool for choosing to do so.
Some clarifications/corrections: We are not the customers of the Mozilla Corporation, we don't buy Firefox or Thunderbird. Google is Mozilla Corp's customer. Eich was "asked to leave" Mozilla Corp, the taxed, wholly owned subsidiary of the non-profit Mozilla Foundation. The Foundation appoints the board for the Corporation, which in turn selects the Corp's CEO. All this talk of Jews buying from Nazis is pointless, although I would be curious to know of any missives sent from Google HQ.
If someone was paying a political referendum to deny your right to drive or own a computer or surf the net?
Now how about someone paying to deny your relationship/friendship/marriage to your significant other how would you feel?
I know that if someone was running a political campaign to divorce me of my wife because we did not fit his criteria of a couple I would not be a happy chap.
To deny access to material goods based on some sort of class system is bad enough. That is what the open source movement fights against.
But to deny access to an adult relationship based on another form of class system is far worse. It is crossing the line from material segregation to human segregation. It's a denial of human rights that is as abhorrent as slavery, apartheid, Australian aboriginals on the wildlife census or other forms of racial segregation.
If it was your access to your loved ones in a special event being denied be it birth, death, wedding, graduation, hospital, emergency or any other major life event what would you do to the person paying to deny you access to them?
Can any of you honestly say you would meekly limit yourselves to just commerical boycotting? Would you also not be the hero fighting the dragon for your love? Or would you just accept that injustice is the way of the world and accept that it is fine for someone to pay away your rights?