Speaking of Israel...

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Originally Posted by Idaho

You really are a ville and delusional man. Welcome to my ignore list.

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Haha, you probably can't read this but you have fallen for Pallywood.

For those who don't ignore me, judge for yourself.

Warning, the image of the dead kid doesn't get any less unsettling because of the photoshop, click at own risk.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sheikhNB/...152960/photo/1

That's a nice line of holes in the right-upper corner, nice line of exactly the same holes. The stones, the Japanese couldn't do it any better, perfect really. Nice composition.

Is there any beer on Idaho's ignore list, sounds like a nice place. Sorry mia muca you ain't too bright.

Alas the ignore button hasn't worked.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5591776
So the photo shopping was also 4d mind photo shopping that included the watching foreign journalists. Still, I suppose, like the Israelis, you don't really see these people as human so you don't care.

A lot of outright calls for ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the Israeli citizenry lately.

I think I hinted a year ago that much of the problem stems from the fact that:

Most of the liberal, Westernized Ashkenazi Jews were killed in the Holocaust or were already in America.

Soviet expat Jews, many of whom reactionary right-wing, streamed into America and Israel from the 1970s on and shifted the political climate.

Most of the rest of the Israeli Jews are Sephardi/Mizrahi Jews, heavily steeped in the Middle-Eastern milieu.

To sum up:

5 of the 6-million Israeli Jews are mostly-conservative, either ex-Communist or Middle-Eastern born-and-bred.


Now, because of the geopolitical situation of Israel's region, the only realist political option Israel has is to gradually (some might say insidiously) colonize all the land they can within their putative borders such that the "two-state solution" becomes moot and Israel's internal security improves due to demographic homogeneity (where it matters). This is inevitable as long as Israel and its neighbors are governed and populated by religious conservatives.

TLDR: The hell with all of these savages. Only time will sort them out.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Alas the ignore button hasn't worked.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5591776
So the photo shopping was also 4d mind photo shopping that included the watching foreign journalists. Still, I suppose, like the Israelis, you don't really see these people as human so you don't care.

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That's what you think. Got any Palestinian friends? I know more about how these things work than you ever will, unless you can answer the question: do I know any people who are actually from there? Because I do, I know a whole lot better what things are like you do because I get it from people who are from there. The first victims are those that are less radical. The second ones are the now-so-called radicals called Hamas. The third will be Hamas because they will be replaced by even more radical movements who will be aided in seizing anything that now belongs to Hamas. That is why Hamas doesn't want a state, they are themselve a target if they get it. Ever thought about that. You didn't did you, but feel free to question my sanity.

Edit: lol, so it was a photoshopping, saw it way before you/they did.

Hamas and the politicians are scum. As are 99% of all politicians. However the people have a right to a normal life. Israel won't allow that. They either provoke a reaction which is used to justify their oppression, or just continue to strangle, steal and starve the occupied territories.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Edit: lol, so it was a photoshopping, saw it way before you/they did.

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the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Hamas and the politicians are scum. As are 99% of all politicians. However the people have a right to a normal life. Israel won't allow that. They either provoke a reaction which is used to justify their oppression, or just continue to strangle, steal and starve the occupied territories.

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That's just a pretty rediculous thing to say considering that they get more aid than any other people in the world. I feel sorry for the non-political Palestinians but not more than that. If I would have to give an honest answer it would indeed be that I don't really care about them, but neither does the Arab world so why should I. I don't mean them any harm but theyare a victim of circumstances, what I want and don't want has nothing to do with it, bigger things at work there. Hamas is basicly Iran having a proxy. I am not a coldblooded person I hate hearing about the misery that's going on right now, but who's to blame really?

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Yeah, maybe they didn't even bother checking the story and cried with the wolves, not spotting the obvious manipulating of images is lazy at best. Gonna wait for the real pic where that poor kid is absolutily not on a beach.

I remain sympathetic to the Israeli state in general, but I have to say their actions here are disgraceful. It is just pure revenge on hundreds of innocent people because of the actions of a few Hamas scumbags.

Israel has to be stepping up at a time like this and showing why they are better than Hamas, not trying to out-do them a hundredfold in pointless tit-for-tat murders.

Agreed. My general view is that Israel has a right to defend itself against the rocket attacks, but clearly the bombings arent helping anyone and are only causing harm. Harm for the Palestinians who are hurt by the bombings, and harm for the Israelis who come in harm's way when the Palestinians fight back. Why Israel keeps thinking that the bombings will work is beyond me.

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Put me on the ignore list and you don't have to say anything. It ain't that hard, and you won't see anything I say. You will never have to do anything to do with me. So what does it matter what you have to say. You can call me whatever you want in your anecdotes of your interesting life. But that isn't going to convince me even if you win the Pulitzer Price. It's pretty simple, they are just better at hating than they are at killing, if they would be better at killing all jews living there would be dead. So it's good that they aren't very good at it.

Edit, little addition, if it's all about living standards, than why are sinagogues attacked in Europe? Maybe, just maybe, is the Islam an absolutily vile ideoligy that has more genes in their collective hate of jews than they have collective genes running in their families?

Sick religion, genetically challenged followers. All in all screw the horribly perverse death-cult that is islam. Sideways.

Relevant video:

http://youtu.be/7XMMUNGwm4c

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Put me on the ignore list and you don't have to say anything. It ain't that hard, and you won't see anything I say. You will never have to do anything to do with me. So what does it matter what you have to say. You can call me whatever you want in your anecdotes of your interesting life. But that isn't going to convince me even if you win the Pulitzer Price. It's pretty simple, they are just better at hating than they are at killing, if they would be better at killing all jews living there would be dead. So it's good that they aren't very good at it.

Edit, little addition, if it's all about living standards, than why are sinagogues attacked in Europe? Maybe, just maybe, is the Islam an absolutily vile ideoligy that has more genes in their collective hate of jews than they have collective genes running in their families?

Sick religion, genetically challenged followers. All in all screw the horribly perverse death-cult that is islam. Sideways.

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ignoring ignorance and hate doesn't make it go away so I wont be ignoring you - I will pity you however for your complete lack of empathy...

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

ignoring ignorance and hate doesn't make it go away so I wont be ignoring you - I will pity you however for your complete lack of empathy...

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Me no empathy, You could see it like that if you want to. Can I also call you total idiots for falling for an obviously manipulated photograph that has no other purpose than manipulating you.

Was kinda right no, how I look at things doesn't change anything, that pic was deviced to make you look at things in a certain way. Doesn't that make you feel kinda used. I would feel used when being lied to with cheap tricks, especially when they are so very very obvious. You are probably not the most stupid person on the planet and surroundings that oh so willingly gobbed it up, so credits for that.

personally the fact that it was witnessed by several western media outlets first hand was more convincing to me - and one fake image really didn't change that fact...

Can someone point me to the military target that caused those children to be euphemistically termed Collateral damage?

Because if you can't point to a legitmate target then this was a state sponsored terrorist act. It is meant to intimadate and crush any will of the people.

=][=

Now if its all about living standards why do Ultra Orthodox Jewish men attack non-orthodox Jewish school children?

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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Part of why my suggested solution would be for settlements to be erected for the Palestinian population in the neighbouring countries and the various areas, and they be granted citizenship in those areas and compensated. It isn't the most ideal situation in the world, but if I was in that situation, being compensated to live with a home and work, would be a better alternative than nothing at all.

This would obviously be a policy carried out over a stretch of years from agreements and practical standpoint. Obviously working better if the compensation is generous, perhaps assistance from foreign aid budgets.

Israel would most likely end up burdened with the greatest cost in the arrangement, as it should be if they want those territories.

So you want the rest of the world to pay for a diaspora mark II?

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Agreed. My general view is that Israel has a right to defend itself against the rocket attacks, but clearly the bombings arent helping anyone and are only causing harm. Harm for the Palestinians who are hurt by the bombings, and harm for the Israelis who come in harm's way when the Palestinians fight back. Why Israel keeps thinking that the bombings will work is beyond me.

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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I respect the sentiments expressed in this post, but for the pessimistic prediction...I hope not, and I frankly expect not. Hamas is not capable of it. Even the situation changed dramaticly and Israel faced an existential threat, there'd be plenty of warning signs long before it - Israel has plenty of foreign goodwill to count on, in the first place the US.
Israel might consider driving out the Palestinians entirely, but I expect not. They would have to embrace the prospect of being a pariah on the world stage, and such a 'final solution' would arouse so much internal disssent that even an extremely right-wing government would hesitate.

Then again...the general sequence of things could continue for at least a decade or two, by which point settler outposts literally saturate the west bank. The rest of the world now maintains that they're all illegal and should be dismantled, but that might be an impossible option in the far future. Leaving the Palestinians even more overcrowded and concentrated than they currently are.

I seriously wonder what the underlying strategy beneath the settlement policy is - it just might be to create a fait accompli for future Israeli politicians, ensuring that there's no way going back.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

So you want the rest of the world to pay for a diaspora mark II?

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Nothing perfect, hence this situation in the first place. But I think working on ending a humanitarian crisis would be a good spend and as stated, those involved in causing it are the ones with most of the burden.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

I respect the sentiments expressed in this post, but for the pessimistic prediction...I hope not, and I frankly expect not. Hamas is not capable of it. Even the situation changed dramaticly and Israel faced an existential threat, there'd be plenty of warning signs long before it - Israel has plenty of foreign goodwill to count on, in the first place the US.
Israel might consider driving out the Palestinians entirely, but I expect not. They would have to embrace the prospect of being a pariah on the world stage, and such a 'final solution' would arouse so much internal disssent that even an extremely right-wing government would hesitate.

Then again...the general sequence of things could continue for at least a decade or two, by which point settler outposts literally saturate the west bank. The rest of the world now maintains that they're all illegal and should be dismantled, but that might be an impossible option in the far future. Leaving the Palestinians even more overcrowded and concentrated than they currently are.

I seriously wonder what the underlying strategy beneath the settlement policy is - it just might be to create a fait accompli for future Israeli politicians, ensuring that there's no way going back.

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With the borders defined by previous agreements, continued settlement is basically land-grabbing, which according to just about every legal understanding is casis belli and provides a iusta causa for the Palestinians to retaliate as they see fit. Of course, the onus is on the Palestinians to repel the Israelis themselves, and they're too weak to do so, and quite frankly I don't care enough about them to want us to help them do so. The Melian dialogue applies. The strong (Israelis) do what they will, the weak (Palestinians) suffer what they must. There is no justice involved except practical reality.

For anyone wishing to excuse the settlements, I ask a couple of questions: are the settlers subject to Palestinian law, and do they pay taxes to the Palestinian authorities? If neither is true, but they are supported by the Israeli state, then they are invaders. If both are true, they are immigrants. For people like Frag, I'd ask a further question: would you be happy if Muslim inhabitants in your country refused to pay taxes or obey your country's laws, but pledged allegiance to and were supported by a foreign state? If it happened in Britain, I'd expect my government to do everything legally possible to eliminate the problem, and if we weren't strong enough, call on every favour we have to help us do so.

Last time someone tried something like that with the British it caused the Falkland war.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Last time someone tried something like that with the British it caused the Falkland war.

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Someone may try to nitpick by saying that an invasion is crossing the border in arms. Which is only true where the country being invaded is strong enough to forcibly eject unarmed invaders, thus necessitating any invasion to be done with arms. If you trust your supporting government to back you with arms in the event of any attempt to evict you, you can cross the border and occupy foreign land unarmed, and it is no less an invasion than if you'd done so in full uniform and military regalia. If you enter and live in another country, you are either a guest of that country, a citizen of that country, or an invader.

The ground offensive has begun.

Interesting to see what happens now.

I know the best solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the only downside is that it involves cobalt nukes.

Well that's awkward because there arent any cobalt nukes.

Any dirty bomb or a neutron one would have the same effect as a cobalt bomb:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb

We are all war gamers. What would you think of a "battle" that had a casualty ratio of 263-1?

Monks, fog and somehow my general the only one dead as he charged through the forest....

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Originally Posted by Idaho

We are all war gamers. What would you think of a "battle" that had a casualty ratio of 263-1?

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A heroic victory!

EDIT: To clarify, I mean something serious when I say this. Israeli society will hail the military as heroes and while I harbour nothing against the ordinary soldier, at the strategic level these actions are the furthest thing possible from heroic.