Which faction provides the biggest test?

Be interesting to see as Pahlava (Parthia in EB). Definitely heavy cav and horse archer. Back to RTW, Phraaspa should be your first target. For me, next time I start, I will try to kill Campus Sakae's population growth, just leave some EI for garrison, and use that army against Seleucia, or elsewhere if needed. Maybe use some of Susa's army there as well, or use Susa (depends on what it has) to immediately carry out an offensive before the enemy even reaches Susa, keep the fight out as far as possible. It seems conquering is imperative, whereas with Rome or Greece you can trade some first. At least a strategy worth trying, and if it doesn't work, oh well.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

next time I start

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When you do let us know.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

It seems conquering is imperative, whereas with Rome or Greece you can trade some first

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I find it hard to separate the two. For instance as Greek Cities, all the cities you take have ports. Athens in particular is a great trade hub for cities all around.

Right, Athens is awesome, I have had it showing over 12,000 denari. I probably won't start with Parthia till my Greek campaign is over (or gets boring), so no telling how long that will be, will mention it when I do start, probably when I have a battle with Greece that I don't feel like fighting. Maybe I will start one just to try out that strategy. If I do, I will show it. Too bad my Mac version disk is scratched so I can't reinstall it (removed it after botched attempt to install EB mod, do not mod a Mac if you don't know what you are doing), otherwise I would try it now. I have to wait till I get home. Rome and Greece start with good trade, Greece especially, so if you want to trade with say Pontus and Egypt you can. Macedon and Rome will attack you, but you can afford to let them start the war. It seems that you need to really go on the offensive with Parthia to gain some good trade, Greece it is not as necessary. By the way, how do you guys post the screenshots?

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

how do you guys post the screenshots?

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My method.

PC: Press PrtSc and the .tga file is saved to the tgas folder on your disk.
To find the tgas folder - open computer from the start menu. Select the C: hard drive. Type 001.tga into the search box at the top right.
Wait for the search to complete then select the file - right click on it and select 'open file location' and the folder with all your screenshots will open.

Sort the folder by date modified and your latest screenshot will be at the top. Double click on that file to see it and check it's what you want. You need to convert tga to jpg and upload to the net - view on the net and copy and paste the path into your post.

I'm looking forward to seeing some :)

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For me, next time I start, I will try to kill Campus Sakae's population growth, just leave some EI for garrison

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Again I make the suggestion to relinquish Sakae, and disband anything you can't use. You saw what happens in ws's campaign, and it's happened in virtually every Parthian campaign I've played. With Alanni so close, Sakae will become Scythia's first target. I know it's counter-intuitive to give up a town that can make you money (bad for a poor-to-begin-with faction), but the repeated Scythian incursions are both a PITA, and a gradual drain on funds. Not saying it's the best way, but it removes a tempting target. Ship what's left of your garrison south for the push to Seleucia. The lost income from Sakae will be made up quickly.

[I still think you should start with Armenia until you get real familiar with horse archer fighting.]

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By the way, how do you guys post the screenshots?

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I use FRAPS. I then convert the .tga to .jpeg (I usually edit the pics for clarity or cropping) and upload to Photobucket. FRAPS is a free d/l, and works quite well for me.

So how do I upload it to the net? I guess that is what I was wondering. I don't know if I can paste the picture into this thread, my permissions says I may not post attachments, I don't know if that would be an attachment. I guess I can attempt it, though that will have to be when I get home as well. Perhaps somebody in the know can clarify how that works. I do see an insert image option in the toolbar.

Pick your photo host (there are several out there---mine is Photobucket), and start an account (they're free). Once you have an account, you can upload directly from whatever file you have your screenies stored.

Scythia targets Sakae? In the few Parthian campaigns I have done, only two or three on E/E, I have not seen that, but I may have just explained why, or they petered out too quickly. I guess your way makes sense, but I will probably attempt my way first. I will not fortify it against attack, just kill population growth and have minimum number there for public order. If I do achieve ZPG there right off the bat, that should take care of the unrest, right? Keeping it should distribute the cost out more. If Scythia attacks I will let them have it, just disband the units inside and let them take the city. WS, you are on VH/VH in your campaign, right? I may try Armenia first, I would have but my brother has one with them right now, though he is currently playing BI instead. Whatever I do, I will keep you guys posted. Right now I am having too much fun decimating Spanish units with my Armoured Hoplites, BWA-HA-HA. Bridge battles against Round Shield Cav. Guess who's winning that one. Only one problem: I can't just retrain my Heavy Peltasts.
I see that the "insert image" just gives the option of posting a URL, so I will have to figure out what I want to do there. The [IMG] code is on, so it says I can embed images into my posts. I will have to try that out.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

Scythia targets Sakae?

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First Parthian game I played I didn't see Scythia at all before I ended it. This game they attacked Kotais forcing me to take Allani resulting in three further invasions :) I guess what Scythia does depends on whats happening at the other end of it's territory.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

So how do I upload it to the net?

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I googled '.tga to .jpg' and chose one of the results given for online conversion. Definitely can't recommend any.

I also didn't have a host. I chose tinypics because it has a government department advert on it (if that's a recommendation). Plus all they required was an email address. As RS says there are plenty available.

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First Parthian game I played I didn't see Scythia at all before I ended it. This game they attacked Kotais

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Probably changes from campaign to campaign. I had more public order issues there. Again, I don't think I got ten turns into any of my Parthian campaigns, I may have gotten to five in one of them.
RS, what do you know about the Saka Rauka? They are a steppe faction from EB, and indeed, the name Saka tells you that they come from the region in question. They seem similar to Parthia, though they do get some later Greek-style heavy infantry.

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Scythia targets Sakae?

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In my first several Parthian campaigns (which, admittedly, are far fewer than my Armenian camps), they always went after Sakae. When I dumped Sakae (usually within the first 3 yrs), I rarely had problems with them.

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This game they attacked Kotais forcing me to take Allani resulting in three further invasions

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As Armenia, there's a 50/50 chance they come to Kotais. Unfortunately for the boys in orange, by then, Kotais is a walled city lined with archers:wall: If they try again after the first debacle, I have at least several CA's by then and the drubbing gets worse. So...I don't go after them. I let them come to me, and I bribe every brigand stack containing archers (most cost only several hundred denarii) and put them into Kotais and Artaxarta. They go into Artaxarta for the same reason...when some Parthian Pasha decides he would like to be entertained by his harem in the halls of Artaxarta, he gets to rest instead on the pincushions that once was his invading army~D

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RS, what do you know about the Saka Rauka?

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Not much. But I found this:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...a_history.html

Apparently some kind of tribal form descended from the Scythians:shrug:

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Apparently some kind of tribal form descended from the Scythians

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Not too much is known about them. They were once described as "All Saka are Scythians, but not all Scythians are Saka." Congrats on another award, by the way. Started Armenian campaign on M/M, did not get too far before I decided that my "don't start a war" plan was wrong, restarted and went after Pontus. Was moving down to take Halicarnassus, still not wanting to attack Seleucia, Seleucia attacked my three general/four horse archer army with two full stacks of Militia Hoplites. I owned them:hmg:. Took Sardis, when Seleucia besieged I sallied forth and they just ran. On M/M, the enemy is more likely to cut and run to save the army instead of fighting it out. Preparing to go after Halicarnassus. Starting to prepare Kotais for the inevitable Scythian attack. Am allied with Egypt, moving a diplomat towards Greece. Will try to remember to do screenshots.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

Probably changes from campaign to campaign

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While I had been fighting Egypt and Scythia, rebels had popped up all over the place (not helpful when you're struggling for cash) and I had no spare units to deal with them. So after the big battle at Alanni I took the general and 3 HAs south to start cleaning up. I left my usual peasant garrison in Alanni and stuck a spy in Sarmatae. I saw the next 2 small incursions coming - the first I built 3 HAs and got a heroic victory (still no MotH) then disbanded them. The second I bribed for 6k.

Rebels are a real problem for Parthia. I find I can't auto-resolve at all (to avoid casualties I know I won't take). Plus the small army I had needed boosting by mercs to succeed in some cases. BTW still not seen a merc hoplite including as rebels (which I believe 'slave' means).

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

when some Parthian Pasha...

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Oi - some of those guys are best friends!

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Starting to prepare Kotais for the inevitable Scythian attack

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No Parthians nosing around?

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Started Armenian campaign on M/M, did not get too far before I decided that my "don't start a war" plan was wrong, restarted and went after Pontus.

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Hopefully, you read my Guide to Armenia? It pretty much covers everything you need to know, and how to start out with them.

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Am allied with Egypt

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About as reliable an ally as the Greeks. Oh wait...they ARE Greeks~D

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Seleucia attacked my three general/four horse archer army with two full stacks of Militia Hoplites.

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Wow...it's rare for Seleucia to be the aggressor. Usually it's me going after them.

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I owned them

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We'll make a horsemen out of you yet:bounce:

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While I had been fighting Egypt and Scythia, rebels had popped up all over the place (not helpful when you're struggling for cash) and I had no spare units to deal with them.

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Another reason for staying the heck away from Scythian regions...too many brigands. Scythia, Britannia, and Germania seem to get more than their share of them...only in the vastness of the steppes it takes forever to get to them.

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still not seen a merc hoplite including as rebels

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You won't see them in rebel stacks much, but in the six regions I posted above, you can recruit them as mercs.....

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No Parthians nosing around?

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They nose around alot, but in my games, when the AI takes a look at what's sitting inside Artaxarta...they go away without attacking. I did have them lay siege to Artaxarta once, mainly because the their army had one of their two starting cataphracts in it. Vanilla archers don't do a heck of alot of damage to Cats, but each attempt by me to break their siege cost the AI 10-12 horsemen. On the third attempt, I sallied the entire garrison, overwhelmed what was left of their Cat unit, and drove the rest off. They didn't come back again...'course it didn't hurt to have a small cat-army stationed at the border~;)

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

too many brigands. Scythia, Britannia, and Germania seem to get more than their share of them

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The rebels I had to deal with were all in the southern lands. Just about one per region. At the time I sent my general south there were none in Scythia (one has since appeared in Sakae). I've killed about 8 and not surprising others have appeared - interestingly a sequence of 3 in Kotais province. My understanding is each region has a percentage chance of rebels appearing, some higher than others, but that's all it is - a chance. You mention Britain. My last world conquest as Greeks I took Britain and left a small army to deal with rebels. That was a waste of money because precisely zero appeared.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

recruit them as mercs.....

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I am not disputing what you say, just pointing out my experience for anyone viewing. I've loaded my last saved game and there are no merc hoplites available where I was able to check (Pontus, Parthia, Armenia and Seleucia). I'm sending my little rebel-busting army into Scythia to deal with the rebels in Sakae - I hadn't seen merc hoplites previously up there, maybe I will this time.

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=...c#.U-od2WMel60

Britain and Ireland when I finished playing - no devastation (I checked the cities), and the army I left in London.

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My last world conquest as Greeks I took Britain and left a small army to deal with rebels. That was a waste of money because precisely zero appeared.

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I think all those watchtowers has something to do with that:creep:

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I am not disputing what you say, just pointing out my experience for anyone viewing.

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It's not what I'm saying...it's what the descr_mercenaries file sez....Sakae, Alanni, Sarmatae, Maeotis, Scythia, and Bosphorus....all have merc hoplites for hire:book2:

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

I think all those watchtowers has something to do with that

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I think some people don't realise how useful watchtowers are - at 200 a go they're great value.

I have wondered if the have any effect other than as spies. This is a quote from elsewhere in this site (frogbeastegg’s Guide to Rome)

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Contrary to popular enduring rumour, watchtowers do not reduce or prevent rebel stacks spawning

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Originally Posted by williamsiddell

No Parthians nosing around?

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No, but Seleucia just attacked Artaxarta with a double full stack army. My garrison is a general, a Cataphract, two HA's, and two Peltasts. a I sallied forth, but twice they charged their Militia Cav at my HA's, the first time the charge took out seven of my guys, then my Cataphracts got ahold of the MC and they took off. Second time the MC decimated the HA's before I could get my general over there. My general got tangled with Phalanx Pikemen who took longer to rout than I anticipated (still too used to E/E where they would have routed when the General hit), ditto the Cataphracts against Militia Hoplites. That battle ended a draw, I ran out of ammo and did not want to take more casualties than I had already taken. I am sallying out, I think I will target their missile troops (Peltasts and MC) so my own Peltasts can hit their MH. My HA's have 22 and 29 left, general is down to I think nine, Cats into the twenties or thirties, I don't remember. I probably will dispatch some reinforcement HA's, as Kotais now has Heavy Spearmen and stone walls. I am avoiding going after Scythia, their is a half strength Rebel army on the bridge north of Kotais, so I am leaving them there as a buffer against Scythia, not much trade to come from Alanni, anyway.

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About as reliable an ally as the Greeks. Oh wait...they ARE Greeks

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I have found Egypt to be a pretty steady ally, actually. Greece, Rome, and Britain are horrible allies:thumbsdown:. My wars with Egypt are almost always started from a neutral stance, and then with a blockade. Speaking of Greeks, I distrust the large army they have near Sardis.

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it's rare for Seleucia to be the aggressor

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I guess it was too much temptation, four HA's and three generals, all cav vs MH, well, there was one unit of Levy Pikemen and one Peasant unit as well. I like to distract infantry with one unit and volley them from behind with another:dizzy2:.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

twice they charged their Militia Cav at my HA's

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That's been a disaster for me several times. The worst was when I had 3 Horse Archers and one was charged by ordinary cavalry (it might even have been rebels). My HAs retreated to the red line and then routed. A third of my army just gone.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

Cats into the twenties or thirties

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And no cataphract barracks nearby no doubt. As Parthia I ended up down to a unit with 1 cat before I got the barracks at Antioch.

Sounds like you've got a serious fight on you're hands.

I think I can handle it, especially as I can just withdraw to force a draw. I will be reinforcing anyway. Their phalanx pikemen are gone, as are all but one of their Militia Cav and numerous MH units. They came from the Phraaspa side, so I was totally unprepared. No, no Cat stables, can't afford one right now, though Kotais may be getting one soon after this. Money is a bit low, I will have to suspend building for a couple of turns.
That is another thing about EB. Your barracks is where you train your infantry, cav, missile, and siege units. Different ports give different ships, you actually need a naval port to build warships. Again, more expensive, longer to take as turns are by season, four turns to a year instead of two, but considering 15,000 is the cost of the max barracks (you have to build levy barracks separately, same costs I think), it is cheaper than building multiple barracks, archery range, and stables, as the top levels of each in RTW are 9,600 apiece, not including prices to get to that point.

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My HAs retreated to the red line and then routed. A third of my army just gone.

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Yep, you learned the hard way just like everyone else (including myself) that you MUST micro-manage vanilla horse archers.....constantly. For Armenia, the task gets easier once you begin recruiting Cataphract Archers. They can take care of themselves against anyone's cavalry, so they don't require constant attention.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

vanilla horse archers

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It still happens even though I try to keep an eye on it! it's easy in a big battle for an enemy cav unit to charge out of the ruck without me realising what's going on til it's almost too late.

I would still say it is a good idea to have vanilla HA's along, if only for running down the enemy, CA's are more of a specialized unit. Armenia does not get a light cav unit otherwise. Also being more nimble, HA's can run around the enemy flanks better, whereas with the CA's you would more use them as a static emplacement, and if necessary they can smash the enemy, though that task is better left to the Cataphracts. Chariots will not be a major factor, especially once Egypt is gone, and Egypt usually fields two or three, or sometimes more units of chariots with each army, so two CA's might be a good idea. An all cav army seems like it might require too much micromanagement. I guess I will have to experiment, four HA's alone with two generals will not do when I have to fight Rome. WS, are you still on Skirmisher Cav generals? I don't know what I prefer, the missile generals or the post-Marian Cataphract generals. I think I would rather have the Cats, though the pre-Marians can run people down better. But HA's can do it while shooting, so there is really no real need for the generals to do it, I think Cats are better.

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I would still say it is a good idea to have vanilla HA's along, if only for running down the enemy

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You pretty much have to until you cross the mts. to Tarsus and Antioch. After that you should have enough money to start recruiting Arab Cavalry. If you've never used them before....trust me, no other cav unit is as quick in the desert (read as fleeing enemy generals no longer get off the battlefield~D).

I don't like using Mercs, I will do it though, for the reason that I can't retrain them and they can only be recruited regionally. Most of the time I use them to increase the size of my army, though units like the Cretans, Spanish, Peltasts, or slingers I will recruit to be part of my army. Historically mercs were used widely, so I guess I could just recruit them to take over a region and leave them there when I leave. I use some Arab Cav, more as a unit to fill an army. Taking out generals as they run would be nice, I did not realize they had that speed advantage.

You can check out their stats here:

http://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/info/units/MercUnits/

They can be found in these regions: Regnum_Palmyrae, Arabia, Nabataea, Sinai. The ones found in Palmyrae and Arabia come with an experience chevron.

They have double the attack and charge value of HA, and a total defense of 11 vs. 3...so they can stand quite well in limited melee (even better with armor/weapon upgrades) and not just chasing routers. They utilize the same open formation horse archers do.

As to not being able to retrain...I just keep an extra around solely for replacement. Their replenishment rate is fairly fast, and you can recruit from two regions (Arabia & Palmyra, IIRC).

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their is a half strength Rebel army on the bridge north of Kotais, so I am leaving them there as a buffer against Scythia

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Heheheh......use the very same tactic, myself, a defending army with no upkeep costs other than slight devastation:bounce:

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it is a good idea to have vanilla HA's along

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I'm new to horse battles and there's a tactic I've been considering but not yet used. I usually have 3 Eastern Infantry along for sieges. Where I see cavalry amongst the enemy army I'll set up with a front line of EI, loose formation and stretched as thin as they'll go. Horse Archers set up in a line just behind. The EI will have two functions - absorb enemy missiles and stop a cavalry charge long enough for me to target the enemy cavalry with all my HAs.

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An all cav army seems like it might require too much micromanagement

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Aye, too much like hard work for me too. I'm always looking for the easy option.

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missile generals

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Had to get used to those - I try to use up the missiles ASAP and then use them as traditional heavy cavalry.

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I don't like using Mercs

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I avoid them too, especially if I'm strapped for cash. I only consider them if they fill a functional hole in my army, or if I'm short-handed.

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I did not realize they (Arab cavalry) had that speed advantage

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Same here.

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a half strength Rebel army on the bridge north of Kotais

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Yep, good idea - provided you know Scythia is coming, otherwise they're just another strain on your already tight purse. Plus they might be a cheap source of reinforcement. When I take Mazarka I send a general all the way to Hatra building watchtowers, then sit back and wait for the inevitable rebels on that road. The Egyptians always send a large army by that path - might as well let them kill the rebels :)

Okay, that's it! I'm gonna kick War Elephant ass. I was attacked by a full Greek army including 8 Armoured Hoplites (I only ever have 3 in my own armies). I charged (if that is the right word) a war elephant unit into one of the AH. The elephants promptly routed back through my own troops. I exited the battle just in time to stop me smashing the computer screen.

I've taken the elephants aside and given them a good talking to. They've been told that next time I'm gonna park them in defensive mode well away from my own troops to take advantage of their high hit points and good defense and if they don't attract plenty of enemy fire they'll be disbanded next turn. I hope that does the trick.

RS - you can keep them :) BTW have you seen the AI using flame arrows against them.

I've just seen a merc hoplite in Alanni. :balloon: