Silmarillion:Total War

This looks brilliant I just started reading the thread today (and finished), I am kicking myself for not seeing this earlier and getting involved. I am sure I could have helped. Just wanted to add a few ideas if I may. When men cross Ered Luin (the blue mountains) and enter Ossiriand they could become a faction in themselves. To reflect how quite a few men became vassals of the Elvish Lords, human units could become available as special mercenaries with a reduced upkeep to make it more realistic. I have very little modding skills but have read the book numerous times (as well as LOTR). This mod could become the best when R:TW comes out because with the population factor this would be truly amazing. For example the Orcs increase in numbers faster than any other faction, the men are middle range and the Elves take the longest to regenerate their numbers. An idea with a king of the elves/Ulmo - pope idea, if you want Ulmo to play the part of the pope set up a land across the sea. No boats can cross this land and the end of game comes when the Valar after listening to Earendil's pleas do battle in ME and over throw Morgoth. There could also be a Sauron hero unit. A man unit with ranged capabilities to reflect his sorcery? I have many other ideas and if there is a chance for ideas to still be implemented and you wish for ideas I would be happy to help. Sorry about the disorder but I was so eager http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif . I can't wait for the mod to be finished and I love the units ^^.

Greetings mablung of the heavy hand

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]When men cross Ered Luin (the blue mountains) and enter Ossiriand they could become a faction in themselves.

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We are looking into this. The Edain will certainly be their own faction, but we're undecided as of now whether the Eldar will have Human Mercs, but we have descussed it.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] I have very little modding skills but have read the book numerous times (as well as LOTR)

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Then you are like me. i have little/no modding skills but i signed onto the team as an Advisor keeping the team accurate and providing background info, so far it's been fun.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]This mod could become the best when R:TW comes out because with the population factor this would be truly amazing. For example the Orcs increase in numbers faster than any other faction, the men are middle range and the Elves take the longest to regenerate their numbers.

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We (the team) have not even discussed an R:TW mod. but i imagine it's something that we will do if at all we keep contact til the fall.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]An idea with a king of the elves/Ulmo - pope idea, if you want Ulmo to play the part of the pope set up a land across the sea.

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We'll have the Valar in the game (atleast thats what we want to do) and they'll be sitting nicely in Valinor. whether we want them to fight or just sit by we have not decided yet.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]There could also be a Sauron hero unit

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I'm afraid the game doesn't handle hero units very well, if we did that the Ai would build multiple and would be unstoppable. Sauron will most likely be included as a hero general in command of a unit of infantry or the like.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I have many other ideas and if there is a chance for ideas to still be implemented and you wish for ideas I would be happy to help

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We'd love to here all the ideas you have, either post them here on at our main forum. Good day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

It is coming along nicely.

Will there be different breeds of orc? Lighter and heavier breeds, as well scouts? I was always left with the impression tribes were bread for particular roles.

It would be very cool if you could introduce the dragons. I'd love to see Ancalagon and Smaug. (he was probably a son or grandsome of Ancalagon anyway) I'm assuming the winged drakes won't be able to fly?

Great work.


What factions did you decide on?

[quote=Maedhros,April 02 2004,23:11]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Will there be different breeds of orc? Lighter and heavier breeds, as well scouts?

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As of now there's two breeds, one being goblin, the other...well...Orc. Goblins will be cheap but inefective, Orcs will be stronger, but not by much.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]It would be very cool if you could introduce the dragons. I'd love to see Ancalagon and Smaug. (he was probably a son or grandsome of Ancalagon anyway) I'm assuming the winged drakes won't be able to fly

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i doubt we could put dragons in, i'm not sure but i don't think it's possible. sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
What factions did you decide on?

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eight playables, maybe a number of none playables. those that can be controlled are (so far anyway)


-Sons of Feanor }
-House of Fingolfin }---Noldor
-Sons of Finarfin }
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-Sindar
-Edain (not decided if as one or devided yet)
-Morgoth
-Easterlings
-Khazad (Dwarves)

The character and behavior among the three houses of the Edain was fairly consistent.

If one player they could simply have three non contigous states.

The Edain weren't independent anyway, they always had to answer to the elves. Those in Brethil had the most independence, but only so long as they didn't displease Thingel.

Will there be multiple states within each faction? For Example will one player play Cirdan in the Falas, and one play Thingel of Doriath and Ossiriand? OR will one player have both. Thingel was technically king of both, but Cirdan was autonomous.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Maedhros @ April 03 2004,14:20)]The character and behavior among the three houses of the Edain was fairly consistent.

The Edain weren't independent anyway, they always had to answer to the elves.

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Your right, we've been thinking of including Edain mercenaries among the Eldar to show that. Still not sure if that will be implemented within the final game but its possible. Remember these are only the Playable factions, i didn't include the Non-Playables in my list. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Will there be multiple states within each faction? For Example will one player play Cirdan in the Falas, and one play Thingel of Doriath and Ossiriand? OR will one player have both. Thingel was technically king of both, but Cirdan was autonomous.

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As of now, The playable sindar only have Doriath, Ossiriand is a npf (non playable faction) atm, and will most likely be inhabeted by Green elves. Cirdan is a bit undecided as of now. there was talk of putting him playable, then talk of adding it to the sindar, then talk of making him an extension of the Valar. But as of now he isn't selectable and stands on his own.

We're in the process of moving to a new site (strider is making us a new one) so the team (including me) hasn't been around the forums much. News may be slow from now on...slower then usual that is.

Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Sir Zack de Caldicot @ April 04 2004,16:58)]Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW

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I'm afraid you'll have to ask avarin yourself about that one, not sure if he still comes to the .org but a PM wouldn't hurt. I myself havn't heard from him, but then again i am only a historical advisor.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Sir Zack de Caldicot @ April 04 2004,05:58)]Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW

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Well lets just say that from our end (METW) it won't be too long before we release the dwarves, Hoggy is doing AMAZING work... and thats all I will say about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

@ Monk, is it possible to make Sauron a one off unit that can't be built? With the leaders of the factions - Fingolfin, Elwe Singollo (Thingol) etc. Is it possible to extend there life spans to reflect the large amount of time they rule? There are also other rulers so just having one name and one set of stats could be a bit iffy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif. Heroes in themselves: there will be a lot of heroes with great/mighty/famour warrior? Am I right? Or have you not got up to this stage?
On Sindar units, in the provinces Region, Doriath, Neldoreth and the ones that make up Ossiriand and Lindon, (I think) a unit similar to the Sherwood Foresters should be buildable. The Green Elves of Lindon were especially known for their wood craft - this unit could also be used for Nargothrond, emulating their ambush tactics until Turin Turambar arrived with Gwindor. In the heavily forested kingdom of Doriath cavalry should not be able to be built but, Thingol's faction should be able to build cavalry on open ground. This is because it would not have been possible (probably) to raise sufficient horses in the woods.
Sorry about the time to reply but my internet was corrupt and needed to be fixed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gif

Also, Hiers of elves should be rare (Once every 100 years?) If you can make the elven Kings and Generals immortal because they don't breed as much as men =P. I've had my eye on this mod for a while, and its looking good.

Good idea TigerVX, I was thinking in order to reflect all Elves prowess, especially the Calaquendi (Elves that went to Valinor), in battle the Elves could have an extra health point. This could also represent Elven healing. Of course in order to balance this Elvish units would cost more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 07 2004,00:35)]

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wow...going on 1 am and i'm here at the .org... i should try to answer these questions.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Monk, is it possible to make Sauron a one off unit that can't be built?

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We will look into this if we have enough BIFs left over after we make all the other units. As i have said before, there's only a limited number to work with. all in all i couldn't say if we will do this or not.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]With the leaders of the factions - Fingolfin, Elwe Singollo (Thingol) etc. Is it possible to extend there life spans to reflect the large amount of time they rule?

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Damn i seem to remember reading about this over at the me:tw forums, but i forget what they said. i'll raise the question at our forums just to make sure i have my facts right and get back to you on this.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]There are also other rulers so just having one name and one set of stats could be a bit iffy

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Yes, Fingolfin challenged Morgoth and was slain, thus the high kingship passed to his son Fingon, after him came Turgon and then Gil-gilad. They will probably be Famous Kings (changing the hero.txt file) for the noldor, hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Heroes in themselves: there will be a lot of heroes with great/mighty/famour warrior? Am I right? Or have you not got up to this stage?

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Expect to see favorites like Hurin and Huor, Turgon, and Fingolfin, all ready to do battle. this is again possible by editing the heroes file around. We can also dictate what stats and v&v they start with so somebody like Fingolfin might have mighty warrior.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]On Sindar units, in the provinces Region, Doriath, Neldoreth and the ones that make up Ossiriand and Lindon, (I think) a unit similar to the Sherwood Foresters should be buildable. In the heavily forested kingdom of Doriath cavalry should not be able to be built but, Thingol's faction should be able to build cavalry on open ground.

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we've already hammered out a decent unit list for each faction. I won't go into any detail other then saying, you'll be happy with the sindar.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] Sorry about the time to reply but my internet was corrupt and needed to be fixed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gif

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thats ok...

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]in battle the Elves could have an extra health point. This could also represent Elven healing. Of course in order to balance this Elvish units would cost more

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as far as i know this isn't implemented.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Also, Hiers of elves should be rare (Once every 100 years?) If you can make the elven Kings and Generals immortal because they don't breed as much as men

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again..i'm looking into to make sure i have the facts right, i'll get word from the rest of the team to be sure.

Cheers Monk for that clear up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif. Can you say whether the Nolder units will be stronger stats wise? This would reflect there superior weapons and armour (excluding those the Sindar obtained by trade with the Naugrim). It is also said that those Elves that experienced the light of Telperion and Laurelin were stronger in the body and wiser than the Moriquendi (Elves that never experienced the light). Sorry about all the questions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif .

I'm still waiting on a reply to get the facts straight about ruler age, but i might as well answer these questions that you have presented.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Can you say whether the Nolder units will be stronger stats wise? This would reflect there superior weapons and armour

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The Noldor will be the heavy hitters of the elves, with the best heavy infantry. These guys will be chewing up orcs and spitting them out like no ones business At the moment we are looking at three Noldorin Factions: The House of Feanor, House of Fingolfin, and the Sons of Finarfin, each with its own unique Royal cavalry unit and the general Noldor units. Their only drawback is the lack of light infantry.

The Sindar are exactly opposite in contrast, they have very good light and medium infantry, but no heavily armored forces. That may sound as a weakness, but they can use this as a great advantage. They have the best bowmen to counter the heavily armored forces of the Noldor and a good mix of medium infantry to stand up to a charge of Orcs or Eldar, whichever they may be.

now that i have told you about the Sindar, i might as well tell you about the Khazad (dwarves).

The Khazad are much like the Noldor, yet unlike their Eldar friends, the Dwarves have no cavalry in this age. Their forces consist of entirely heavy infantry wielding a range of weapons. While the lack of cavalry may seem like a weakness their powerful infantry allow them to salvage victory against overwhelming odds. And as the only faction not afraid of Balrogs, they could prove to be an extremely powerful ally.

Hurin Hm? Wonder if he'll live up to his name and be able to slay 70 Gothmog Troll Guard Day shall come again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif . Thanks for the recap monk. I've been think about making a map or two for this mod. Better start reading the Sil over again =P

I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif


The Hidden City of Gondolion on the inside
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/dest...Gondolion1.gif

Outside view
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/dest...Gondolion2.gif

View from a Catapult Tower
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/dest...Gondolion3.gif

I'm new, so I image its crap =P.

Looks great Although I think two others have already created a map of gondolin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif Your approach is really interesting tho.

Just a suggestion for the Sindar, they could have one heavy infantry unit. The build requirements would be high, something like spearmaker's guild, armourer's workshop and merchant. The merchant reflects that the weapons and armour were (mainly) bought from the Naugrim.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 07 2004,23:01)]Just a suggestion for the Sindar, they could have one heavy infantry unit. The build requirements would be high, something like spearmaker's guild, armourer's workshop and merchant. The merchant reflects that the weapons and armour were (mainly) bought from the Naugrim.

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I'll pitch the idea to the team, it sounds great imo and just what the sindar will need in the fight against Morgoth. Good sugestion mablung

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (TigerVX @ April 07 2004,18:55)]I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif
I'm new, so I image its crap =P.

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this is certainly not crap tiger, however, i dont think that gondolin was hidden inside a mountain, but rather, on top (talk about hiding in the open) with a tunnel entrance leading up to it. i'll have to go read the history of middle earth and the silmarillion again

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (carsolan @ April 09 2004,15:59)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (TigerVX @ April 07 2004,18:55)]I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif
I'm new, so I image its crap =P.

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this is certainly not crap tiger, however, i dont think that gondolin was hidden inside a mountain, but rather, on top (talk about hiding in the open) with a tunnel entrance leading up to it. i'll have to go read the history of middle earth and the silmarillion again

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Gondolin was founded upon the hidden field of Tumladen, a valley that was enclosed by the Encirling Mountains. It was not Inside nor ontop of a mountain, but rather in a valley amidst great mountains. It's skies were guarded by Thorondor, the King of eagles, and the only path in was heavily guarded.

Another great citadel that was built inside a mountain was that of Nargothrond. but that isn't what we are talking about.

oops, my bad, i should know that after all my LoTR readings

ha, knew i should have checked this thread more often. more dicussion going on here then over at our forums, lol.

anyways, interesting looking gondolin there TigerVX, looks like your getting the hang of the editor, sorry i couldn't talk last time. We have actually a couple different versions of gondolin floating around but if you ought to take on a different area of Belleriand, we'd love any help.

Nargothrond was built in the gorge formed by the river Narog.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 12 2004,01:08)]Nargothrond was built in the gorge formed by the river Narog.

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Nargothrond



The Noldorin kingdom of Finrod in West Beleriand and the underground halls which were its chief fortress and palace. The Caverns of Narog on the west bank of the Narog under the High Faroth were first delved by the Noegyth Nibin (Petty Dwarves), who named their halls Nulukkizidun. In the first century of the return of the Noldor Finrod was advised by Ulmo to make a refuge, and he, desiring to delv halls of the Model of menegroth was told of the Caverns by Thingol.

Built by the Noldor of Finrod and the Dwarves of the Ered Luin, Nargothrond was both fair and impregnable, and from its halls Finrod ruled the largest of the Noldorin realms, all the way from Sirion and Teiglin in the east to Nenning in the west.

Yes it was within a gorge, but also delved into the mountain.

Indeed Monk, at the same time that Ulmo bade Finrod to make a refuge of strength and secrecy, he also bade Turgon to do so as well. Thus the realms of Nargothrond and Gondolin came about. They were oft had the chief share of Morgoth's thought and worry. As long as they stood doubt gnawed Morgoth.

Possibly the finest realms made by Elves in Tolkien's universe. Yet the treachery of Maeglin, and the weak mind of Orodreth allowed both cities to be lost; the doom of the Noldor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

True, Gondolin is mentioned as rivalling Tirion upon Tuna, not a small feat. While on the subject of Gondolin are their spear unit similar to a hoplite?

when the beta is released m8´s ??