Fury of the Northmen Mod

Here´s some facts regarding the Baltic and Russian city states that might fill in some gaps.

DRUTSK
Known as Dryutesk in the Middle Ages, this place no longer exists. Its site is within the modern Mogilev oblast of Belarus 25 miles (40 km.) west of Mogilev, and 80 miles (135 km.) east of Minsk.
To Polotsk until 1101...
RURIKOVICH-Polotsky
Boris I..................................1101-1128
Rogvolod.................................1128-1129
(to Polotsk..............................1129-1140)
Rogvolod (in Polotsk 1146-51) (restored).1140-1151
Gleb I...................................1151-1158
Rogvolod (in Polotsk 1158-62,re-restored)1158-1160
Gleb II..................................1160's- ?

GRODNO
Known as Gorodno in the Middle Ages. It is now the modern center of Grodno oblast of Belarus, located not far from the Poland/Lithuania frontier. This town was center of Cherno-Russia (Black Rus) until the early 13th century.
To tribal union of Dulebes until 8th century...
To tribal principality of Volynyanes...8th century-981
To Kiev........................................981-988
To Volhynia....................................988-1015
To Kiev.......................................1075-1036
To Volhynia...................................1036-1057
To Kiev.......................................1057-1078
To Volhynia...................................1078-1084
RURIKOVICH-Gorodensky
Vsevolod I....................................1084-?
Mstislav I..................................1090's-1116
Vladiko.......................................1116-1141
Boris.........................................1141-1150's
Gleb........................................1150's-1167
Mstislav II...................................1167-117 ?
R.-Vitebsky
Izyaslav....................................1170's-1185
Vsevolod II...................................1185-?

IZYASLAVL
Now called Zaslavl, it is a town in Minsk oblast of Belarus 12 miles (20 km.) northwest of Minsk.
To Polotsk until 976...
To Novgorod....................................976-980
To Kiev............................................980
RURIKOVICH
Izyaslav I (in Polotsk from 988)...............980-1001
Vseslav I (also in Minsk).....................1001-1003
To Polotsk....................................1003-1101
David (in Polotsk 1116-27)....................1101-1116
Bryachislav I.................................1116-1127
David (in Polotsk 1128-29) (restored).........1127-1128
Bryachislav I (restored)......................1128-1129
To Polotsk....................................1129-1146
Bryachislav II (in Vitebsk 1167-86)...........1146-1151
Vsevolod......................................1151-1158
Bryachislav II (restored).....................1158-1159
Vsevolod (restored)................................1159
Bryachislav II (re-restored)..................1159-
Basil (in Vitebsk 118 ? -1221)................1167-118 ?
Vladimir (in Polotsk from 1197).............118 ? -1215

MINSK
Modern capital of Belarus. Originally called Menesk, the modern name dates from the14-15th centuries. From late 12th cent. to mid 14 cent. there is no information about rulers of Menesk, except Pr.Basil (c.1326).
To tribal union of Dregoviches...........5th-8th centuries
To tribal union of Kriviches........8th-early 9th centuries
To tribal union of Polochanes
(West Kriviches).....ea. 9th cent.-870's
To Novgorod..................................870's-882
To Kiev........................................882-972
To Novgorod....................................972-980
To Kiev............................................980
To Polotsk.....................................980-1001
RURIKOVICH
Vseslav (also in Izyaslavl)...................1001-1003
To Polotsk....................................1003-1101
Gleb..........................................1101-1118
To Turov......................................1119-1146
Rostislav (in Polotsk 1151-58)................1146-1160's
Volodar (in Polotsk 1167)...................1160's- ?
Vladimir.................................fl. late 12th cent.

NOVGORODOK
Now called Novogrudok, a town in modern Grodno oblast of Belarus about 75 miles (120 km.) east of Grodno and a similar distance west of Minsk. This town, a center of Cherno-Russia from the early 13th century, was a sub-Principality under Grodno in the 12th and 13th centuries, then a Principality within the Lithuanian sphere of influence from 1239.
To Grodno until 1175...
RURIKOVICH
Vsevolod (in Grodno from 1185).........1170's-1185
Basil (in Grodno ? -1219)................1185-1 ?
Izyaslav.................................. ? -1239

PINSK
In Brest oblast of Belarus, near the Pina river before it enters the Pripyat. Sub-principality 1184-96, Grand Principality 1196-early 14th century.
To Kiev.....................................c. 890-988
To Turov.......................................988-1010
To Kiev.......................................1010-1078
To Turov......................................1078-1196
RURIKOVICH
Svyatopolk....................................1184-1190
Vladimir I....................................1190-1228
Rostislav.....................................1228-1241
To Mongols....................................1241-c. 1325
Michael I.....................................1241-1245
Vladimir II...................................1245-12 ?
Theodore......................................12 ?-126 ?
George I......................................126 ?-1289
Diomede I.....................................1289- ?

POLOTSK
A town built near the Polota river as it flows into the West Dvina (Daugava). After death of Prince Svyatoslav the Warlike of Kiev (972) it was captured by Varyags (Sweden vikings) and ruled by Ragnvald who became the first prince of Polotsk. Later recaptured by Kiev, it became the most significant of the White Russian Principalities during the Middle Ages.
To Novgorod....................................870's-882
To Kiev........................................882-972
Rogvolod I (Ragnvald)..........................972-976
To Kiev........................................976-980
RURIKOVICH
Izyaslav I.....................................980-1001
Briachislav the Brave.........................1001-1044
Vseslav the Werewolf..........................1044-1066
To Kiev.......................................1067-1068
Vseslav the Werewolf (restored)...............1068-1069
Mstislav I.........................................1069
Svyatopolk (in Kiev 1093-1113)................1069-1071
Vseslav the Werewolf (re-restored)............1071-1101
Roman.........................................1101-1116
David (in Izyaslavl 1101-1116)................1116-1127
Rogvolod II...................................1127-1128
David (restored)..............................1128-1129
Izyaslav II (in Kiev 1146-1154)...............1129-1132
Svyatopolk II (in Novgorod 1142-48)................1132
Vasilko the Restorer..........................1132-1146
Rogvolod III..................................1146-1151
Rostislav.....................................1151-1158
Rogvolod III (restored).......................1158-1162
Vseslav II (in Vitebsk 1146-62)...............1161-1167
Volodar............................................1167
Vseslav II (restored).........................1167-118 ?
Bryachislav I (in Vitebsk from 1167)........118 ? -1186
Boris.........................................1186-1197
Vladimir......................................1197-1216
Basil II (in Vitebsk from 1186)...............1216-1221
Svyatoslav (in Smolensk 1232-1235)............1221-1232
Bryachislav II................................1232-124 ?
Occupied at some point by Mongols..................1240's
MINDAUGAS
Tovtivil.....................................12 ? -1263
Another Lithuanian family
Erden I.......................................1263-12 ?
Edivid I the Wolf............................12 ? -12 ?
To Lithuania directly....................c. 1240's-1315

TUROV
A Russian Principality during the Middle Ages, located in what is now southern Belarus.
To Kiev.....................................c. 890-988
RURIKOVICH
Svyatopolk I the Damned........................988-1010
To Kiev.......................................1010-1078
Yaropolk I....................................1078-1087
Svyatopolk II.................................1087-1113
Roman I.......................................1113-1119
Vyacheslav I..................................1119-1133
Izyaslav I....................................1133-1134
Vyacheslav I (restored).......................1134-1141
Svyatoslav I the Old..........................1141-1142
Vyacheslav I (re-restored)....................1142-1146
Yaroslav I of Luchesk.........................1146-1150
Andrew of Bogolubov (in Vladimir 1156-1174)...1150-1151
Yaroslav I of Luchesk (restored)..............1151-1154
Svyatoslav I the Old (restored)...............1154-1155
Boris I.......................................1155-1157
George I the Old..............................1157-1184
Yaroslav II...................................1184-1180's
Svyatopolk III..............................1180's-1190
Gleb I........................................1190-1196
Rostislav I...................................1196-1228
It is unknown who ruled in Turov after 1228 when Rostislav became Grand Prince of Pinsk. Turov might have become the possession of one of Rostislav's younger brothers, or a possession of the heir to Pinsk, or it might have been ruled directly by Pinsk. By the 14th century and later, Turov district was within the Principality of Pinsk.

VITEBSK
Modern center of Vitebsk oblast of Belarus. A sub-Principality under Polotsk 1101-1129, a Principality within the Polotsk sphere of influence 1140-1240's, A Grand Principality 1240's-1316, and a Principality within Lithuania 1316-1436.
To Kiev until 1010...
To Smolensk..............................1010-1015
To Kiev..................................1015-1021
To Polotsk...............................1021-1101
RURIKOVICH
Svyatoslav...............................1101-1129
Rostislav................................1101-1129
To Polotsk...............................1129-1140
Vyacheslav...............................1140-1146
Vseslav (in Polotsk 1162-8?).............1146-1162
Roman....................................1162-1165
David (in Smolensk 1180-97)..............1165-1167
Bryachislav I (in Polotsk 118 ? -86).....1167-118 ?
Basil I (in Polotsk from 1216)...........118 ? -1221
Bryachislav II (in Polotsk from 1232)....1221-1232
Basil II.................................1232-12 ?
Yaroslav I...............................12 ? -1316

To get a bit more organized I´like to share the production schedule for the mod.

1. Make the MapTex with correct geography. Draw regions and markers onto it. Make the LBM-map. Complete the regions related sections of the startpos text file.
2. Decide on culture and factions and make them work in the game.
3. Make tech-tree.
4. Make units.
5. Make battlemaps.
6. Misc like kings, heroes, descriptions and graphical cosmetics like uniticons etc.

I made a little draft-map of Finland, and how I think it might be divided.

https://img34.photobucket.com/albums...inaissuomi.jpg

Tell me what you think..
The blue squares are the cities, and their names are in blue. The dark read text is the name of the province.

To achieve any kind of historical look Estonia should be divided in at least five provinces.

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/...eestikaart.JPG

Considering the limited number of provinces available in MTW it is clearly too much.
Maybe three provinces then?

http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/...estikaart3.jpg

I found a pretty good site for maps. It has a lot od old maps of Europe, which show who controlled what and and when: http://www.northvegr.org/lore/maps/index.php

Also, I realized, that Karelia on that map in my earlier post, could actually stretch all the way to modern day st-Petersburg, and include all but the eastern shores of Ladoga.

At the moment I am trying to find out some more about the other Baltic peoples, mainly the Livs and the different Baltic tribes (Kurlanders, Semgalls, Latgalls, Selons)..

EDIT:
I would seem that the major Baltic players south of Estonia were the Kurons, (or Kurlanders) and the Livonians. To my understanding modern Latvia was divided between The Livs and Kurons, something like this:
https://img34.photobucket.com/albums...tjakuronit.jpg

The other Baltic tribes, Semgalls, Letgalls and selons inhabited the area east and south of Kurland, and most of modern Lithuania. These maps aren't absolutely correct, but they should give you a general Idea how to divide the Baltic.

Looking at this map it seems, that Livonians could have 2 provinces.
http://www.suri.ee/r/liivi/eng.html

@Wilpurri,
Looks good to me. I also have sketched on a 5 prov Finland. Just hold on to the info you got until we need it (see above work schedule). Great link, holy xxxx

@Trax,
It might work with a 5 prov Estonia but we just have to see how it all fits in with it´s neighbours. The same counts for Livland. Hold on to all info until we need it (see above work schedule)

Did you guys have any use for the links I posted above?

Castle location for the possible province of Saaremaa
http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/...46/valjala.jpg
Castle of Valjala

It was a most important stronghold in the end of the period
and also the last one to surrender to the crusaders in 1227.

Edit:
I found a true treasure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
a map of different baltic tribes in 8th -12th century.

http://aidenis.mch.mii.lt/Kankles/figures/fig_7.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Trax @ April 12 2004,12:47)]Edit:
I found a true treasure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif
a map of different baltic tribes in 8th -12th century.

http://aidenis.mch.mii.lt/Kankles/figures/fig_7.htm

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You are a treasure How do you suggest dividing up present day Latvia and Lithuania? The Curonians and Livs should have their own provinces, since they were colonized/put under viking rule for a while. They also became major players towards the end of the period..
But what about the rest?

Semigolians(Semgallians) were quite strong, they were the last to be conquerd by the crusaders, so they may deserve a province.
Samogitians belonged to Lithuania in later periods IIRC
so they could be second Lithuanian province.

Possible factions and faction borders.
http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/...346/e_186b.jpg
1.Prussians
2.Lithuanians
3.Curonians
4.Semgallians
5.Latgals
6.Livonians

You are both gems guys Great work and great link. I´ll think Norseman is going to award you guys some medals when he´ll be back... absolutely outstanding

Since we haven´t decided upon exactly how many provinces we should have in each region may I humbly suggest that you just gather the information. You can work with all possible factions that you can find in the Baltics, Russia and Finland. Then, when we feel that we have done the utmost to gather all info available, we can decide which factions to use, which ones that just ends up being rebels with unique stats etc etc. So don´t take away any or merge a couple of factions together.

@Jay the Conqueror, @Eastside Character.
Useful links to shields, flags etc:

http://www.ngw.nl/
http://flagspot.net/flags/
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/alexflags/
http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html

I found a geneology of Rurik, and successor rulers. It might prove useful:
http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/...cts/rurik.html

And I also found a map of Novgorod and the surrounding territories, with trade routes included:
http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/.../russia878.jpg

Staraya Ladoga (Old Ladoga), the ancient capital of Russia.

http://www.oldladoga.spb.ru/img/map.gif

The area Around Lake Ladoga was inhabited by various Finnic and Slavic tribes. The city of Staraya Ladoga was one of the greatest centres of trade in its time, far before the rise of Novgorod. Staraya Ladoga was established in the late 8th century. It linked the Northern Europe and the countries situated on the shores of the Black Sea, the Scandinavian and Baltic countries and Byzantium. Arms, lumber, furs, honey, wax, amber were supplied to the south and spices, jewelry and glass ware as well as expensive fabrics, books, bread and vine were exported in the opposite direction. Ladoga was first mentioned in the chronicles of the year 862 among ten of the most ancient towns of Russia. Until 864 the town was ruled by Riurik, a Varangian konung who later moved to “a small town” situated on the bank of the River Volkhov, the town later developed to become the Great Novgorod. However, even during the rule of Riurik’s successors Ladoga was still one of the most important trade centers and the northwest advanced post.

I think Novgorod and Staraya Ladoga should be two separate provinces, and may be even separate factions..
Well, you decide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 13 2004,08:01)]I think Novgorod and Staraya Ladoga should be two separate provinces, and may be even separate factions..
Well, you decide.

---

I agree with you on that one. BTW the pic enclosed in the ladoga-mess doesn´t show in the thread but in last 10 posts when I reply/ quote your mess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 13 2004,10:39)]I agree with you on that one. BTW the pic enclosed in the ladoga-mess doesn´t show in the thread but in last 10 posts when I reply/ quote your mess.

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I don't quite understand this? What are you trying to say?

Anyway, I tried to make a more accurate division of Finland. This is based mainly on the different dialects that were/are spoken in these areas. I think it's pretty accurate. The main settlements (and castles/forts)
Finland-Proper: Turku
Häme: Häme
Karelia: Käkisalmi

https://img34.photobucket.com/albums...suomenjako.jpg

Edit: Another potentially useful map:
http://www.mordor.ch/beldarien/ars/IMAGES/map1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 13 2004,12:47)]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ April 13 2004,10:39)]I agree with you on that one. BTW the pic enclosed in the ladoga-mess doesn´t show in the thread but in last 10 posts when I reply/ quote your mess.

---

I don't quite understand this? What are you trying to say?

---

Sorry, I hardly understood when reading it myself just now. I was saying that the Staraya-Ladoga picture don´t show but it does now so it must have been a temporary problem.

So, when is Norse coming back from his holidays? So we can get on with the mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]So, when is Norse coming back from his holidays? So we can get on with the mod

---

I'm back http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
You are both gems guys Great work and great link. I´ll think Norseman is going to award you guys some medals when he´ll be back... absolutely outstanding

---

Medals are being handed out I'll have to spend some hours reading your posts, but at first glance it looks excellent. You seem to fill a big void in our info.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/stor...20playarea.jpg

Now, this is the general play area we´re looking at. By tilting the map to the east (from red square to yellow) we can create more facs and shore provs and get rid of some unwanted inland and seasquares. The only downside to this is that the map is leaning to the east which generates an uncostomized view of northern Europe.

The map needs to be rezized some -10% in width and some 25-30% in height which furthermore increases the distorted and uncustomized view on the map. This is what I´m working now.
Increase the game play area you´d might say. Well, basically we then have to reduce the number of provs in England which we don´t want. So there´s a bit of a dilemma making this strategic map so that all variables get sufficiently satisfactory to all needs.

Good to hear that we are making progress. Let me know if you need something researched, I feel so idle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 15 2004,11:38)]Good to hear that we are making progress. Let me know if you need something researched, I feel so idle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif

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How about thoose petty Russian states then? I don´t think anyone is covering thoose. Se my earlier posts for kings-lists etc. Eastside Character is doing the Polish fac.

I found an excellent site with maps from all over the world, concerning historical periods. The site also has alot of historical information and royal lineages:
http://killeenroos.com/link/maps.html

Having trouble finding anything about other russian states than novgorod and staraya ladoga. I'll go to the library on the weekend, if i have time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ April 15 2004,14:29)]Having trouble finding anything about other russian states than novgorod and staraya ladoga. I'll go to the library on the weekend, if i have time.

---

This info was posted by me earlier on this thread:

DRUTSK
Known as Dryutesk in the Middle Ages, this place no longer exists. Its site is within the modern Mogilev oblast of Belarus 25 miles (40 km.) west of Mogilev, and 80 miles (135 km.) east of Minsk.
To Polotsk until 1101...
RURIKOVICH-Polotsky
Boris I..................................1101-1128
Rogvolod.................................1128-1129
(to Polotsk..............................1129-1140)
Rogvolod (in Polotsk 1146-51) (restored).1140-1151
Gleb I...................................1151-1158
Rogvolod (in Polotsk 1158-62,re-restored)1158-1160
Gleb II..................................1160's- ?

GRODNO
Known as Gorodno in the Middle Ages. It is now the modern center of Grodno oblast of Belarus, located not far from the Poland/Lithuania frontier. This town was center of Cherno-Russia (Black Rus) until the early 13th century.
To tribal union of Dulebes until 8th century...
To tribal principality of Volynyanes...8th century-981
To Kiev........................................981-988
To Volhynia....................................988-1015
To Kiev.......................................1075-1036
To Volhynia...................................1036-1057
To Kiev.......................................1057-1078
To Volhynia...................................1078-1084
RURIKOVICH-Gorodensky
Vsevolod I....................................1084-?
Mstislav I..................................1090's-1116
Vladiko.......................................1116-1141
Boris.........................................1141-1150's
Gleb........................................1150's-1167
Mstislav II...................................1167-117 ?
R.-Vitebsky
Izyaslav....................................1170's-1185
Vsevolod II...................................1185-?

IZYASLAVL
Now called Zaslavl, it is a town in Minsk oblast of Belarus 12 miles (20 km.) northwest of Minsk.
To Polotsk until 976...
To Novgorod....................................976-980
To Kiev............................................980
RURIKOVICH
Izyaslav I (in Polotsk from 988)...............980-1001
Vseslav I (also in Minsk).....................1001-1003
To Polotsk....................................1003-1101
David (in Polotsk 1116-27)....................1101-1116
Bryachislav I.................................1116-1127
David (in Polotsk 1128-29) (restored).........1127-1128
Bryachislav I (restored)......................1128-1129
To Polotsk....................................1129-1146
Bryachislav II (in Vitebsk 1167-86)...........1146-1151
Vsevolod......................................1151-1158
Bryachislav II (restored).....................1158-1159
Vsevolod (restored)................................1159
Bryachislav II (re-restored)..................1159-
Basil (in Vitebsk 118 ? -1221)................1167-118 ?
Vladimir (in Polotsk from 1197).............118 ? -1215

MINSK
Modern capital of Belarus. Originally called Menesk, the modern name dates from the14-15th centuries. From late 12th cent. to mid 14 cent. there is no information about rulers of Menesk, except Pr.Basil (c.1326).
To tribal union of Dregoviches...........5th-8th centuries
To tribal union of Kriviches........8th-early 9th centuries
To tribal union of Polochanes
(West Kriviches).....ea. 9th cent.-870's
To Novgorod..................................870's-882
To Kiev........................................882-972
To Novgorod....................................972-980
To Kiev............................................980
To Polotsk.....................................980-1001
RURIKOVICH
Vseslav (also in Izyaslavl)...................1001-1003
To Polotsk....................................1003-1101
Gleb..........................................1101-1118
To Turov......................................1119-1146
Rostislav (in Polotsk 1151-58)................1146-1160's
Volodar (in Polotsk 1167)...................1160's- ?
Vladimir.................................fl. late 12th cent.

NOVGORODOK
Now called Novogrudok, a town in modern Grodno oblast of Belarus about 75 miles (120 km.) east of Grodno and a similar distance west of Minsk. This town, a center of Cherno-Russia from the early 13th century, was a sub-Principality under Grodno in the 12th and 13th centuries, then a Principality within the Lithuanian sphere of influence from 1239.
To Grodno until 1175...
RURIKOVICH
Vsevolod (in Grodno from 1185).........1170's-1185
Basil (in Grodno ? -1219)................1185-1 ?
Izyaslav.................................. ? -1239

PINSK
In Brest oblast of Belarus, near the Pina river before it enters the Pripyat. Sub-principality 1184-96, Grand Principality 1196-early 14th century.
To Kiev.....................................c. 890-988
To Turov.......................................988-1010
To Kiev.......................................1010-1078
To Turov......................................1078-1196
RURIKOVICH
Svyatopolk....................................1184-1190
Vladimir I....................................1190-1228
Rostislav.....................................1228-1241
To Mongols....................................1241-c. 1325
Michael I.....................................1241-1245
Vladimir II...................................1245-12 ?
Theodore......................................12 ?-126 ?
George I......................................126 ?-1289
Diomede I.....................................1289- ?

POLOTSK
A town built near the Polota river as it flows into the West Dvina (Daugava). After death of Prince Svyatoslav the Warlike of Kiev (972) it was captured by Varyags (Sweden vikings) and ruled by Ragnvald who became the first prince of Polotsk. Later recaptured by Kiev, it became the most significant of the White Russian Principalities during the Middle Ages.
To Novgorod....................................870's-882
To Kiev........................................882-972
Rogvolod I (Ragnvald)..........................972-976
To Kiev........................................976-980
RURIKOVICH
Izyaslav I.....................................980-1001
Briachislav the Brave.........................1001-1044
Vseslav the Werewolf..........................1044-1066
To Kiev.......................................1067-1068
Vseslav the Werewolf (restored)...............1068-1069
Mstislav I.........................................1069
Svyatopolk (in Kiev 1093-1113)................1069-1071
Vseslav the Werewolf (re-restored)............1071-1101
Roman.........................................1101-1116
David (in Izyaslavl 1101-1116)................1116-1127
Rogvolod II...................................1127-1128
David (restored)..............................1128-1129
Izyaslav II (in Kiev 1146-1154)...............1129-1132
Svyatopolk II (in Novgorod 1142-48)................1132
Vasilko the Restorer..........................1132-1146
Rogvolod III..................................1146-1151
Rostislav.....................................1151-1158
Rogvolod III (restored).......................1158-1162
Vseslav II (in Vitebsk 1146-62)...............1161-1167
Volodar............................................1167
Vseslav II (restored).........................1167-118 ?
Bryachislav I (in Vitebsk from 1167)........118 ? -1186
Boris.........................................1186-1197
Vladimir......................................1197-1216
Basil II (in Vitebsk from 1186)...............1216-1221
Svyatoslav (in Smolensk 1232-1235)............1221-1232
Bryachislav II................................1232-124 ?
Occupied at some point by Mongols..................1240's
MINDAUGAS
Tovtivil.....................................12 ? -1263
Another Lithuanian family
Erden I.......................................1263-12 ?
Edivid I the Wolf............................12 ? -12 ?
To Lithuania directly....................c. 1240's-1315

TUROV
A Russian Principality during the Middle Ages, located in what is now southern Belarus.
To Kiev.....................................c. 890-988
RURIKOVICH
Svyatopolk I the Damned........................988-1010
To Kiev.......................................1010-1078
Yaropolk I....................................1078-1087
Svyatopolk II.................................1087-1113
Roman I.......................................1113-1119
Vyacheslav I..................................1119-1133
Izyaslav I....................................1133-1134
Vyacheslav I (restored).......................1134-1141
Svyatoslav I the Old..........................1141-1142
Vyacheslav I (re-restored)....................1142-1146
Yaroslav I of Luchesk.........................1146-1150
Andrew of Bogolubov (in Vladimir 1156-1174)...1150-1151
Yaroslav I of Luchesk (restored)..............1151-1154
Svyatoslav I the Old (restored)...............1154-1155
Boris I.......................................1155-1157
George I the Old..............................1157-1184
Yaroslav II...................................1184-1180's
Svyatopolk III..............................1180's-1190
Gleb I........................................1190-1196
Rostislav I...................................1196-1228
It is unknown who ruled in Turov after 1228 when Rostislav became Grand Prince of Pinsk. Turov might have become the possession of one of Rostislav's younger brothers, or a possession of the heir to Pinsk, or it might have been ruled directly by Pinsk. By the 14th century and later, Turov district was within the Principality of Pinsk.

VITEBSK
Modern center of Vitebsk oblast of Belarus. A sub-Principality under Polotsk 1101-1129, a Principality within the Polotsk sphere of influence 1140-1240's, A Grand Principality 1240's-1316, and a Principality within Lithuania 1316-1436.
To Kiev until 1010...
To Smolensk..............................1010-1015
To Kiev..................................1015-1021
To Polotsk...............................1021-1101
RURIKOVICH
Svyatoslav...............................1101-1129
Rostislav................................1101-1129
To Polotsk...............................1129-1140
Vyacheslav...............................1140-1146
Vseslav (in Polotsk 1162-8?).............1146-1162
Roman....................................1162-1165
David (in Smolensk 1180-97)..............1165-1167
Bryachislav I (in Polotsk 118 ? -86).....1167-118 ?
Basil I (in Polotsk from 1216)...........118 ? -1221
Bryachislav II (in Polotsk from 1232)....1221-1232
Basil II.................................1232-12 ?
Yaroslav I...............................12 ? -1316

So now you have something more to search for. Most of theese where just city-states and petty kingdoms that off and on was under the Rurikovich-dynasty´s rule.

I found theese maps of the Baltics and Russia.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...ltics_1000.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...ltics_1220.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...ltics_1270.jpg

German expasion to the east in 800-1400AD:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps....400.jpg

The Netherlands region:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...empire_843.jpg

Regarding our discussion on religion earlier I found this:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps....300.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps....097.jpg

All theese links above comes from this superb site:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/index.html

Hi crew,
This is a possible factions summary at the present and a request for more faction research:

7-8 English factions: Saxons, Mercians, Welsh, Northumbrians, Pitcs, Scots, 2 Irish factions if possible.

Mainland Europe: French, Dutch, 3 German factions; Franks, Obodrites, Veletis and one Polish faction.

7 Baltic factions: Prussians, Curonians, Selons, Latgalls, Semgalls, Livonians, Estonians
Russians
1-3 Finn factions: (Finns); Varsinais, Tavastians, Karelians

* So what we really needs to cover right now is verifying the accuracy of having three German factions. The Franks are a must.
* Some research on the Dutch area.
* The possibility to split France with Normands??? I´m not to familiar with that area and time so any assistance is apreciated.

This will bring us up to around 23-26 non-viking factions. Just want to sum up the factions possible before Norse and I present you guys with a surprise

Found some facts of regions in the Netherland area that might be useful in creating a faction with. Althogh part of the Frankish kingdom under Charlemange and the east Frankish kingdom from around 870AD this area has a historical unruly past and strong self-independence.

FLANDERS
During most of the last 1,000 years, the people of what is now Nord/ Pas-de-Calais would not have thought of themselves as French. Back in the 9th century, strong local lords with castles and knights on horseback were their only protection from Norman raids, the only saviours of Christianity. While Norman knights ruled England from 1066, the Count of Flanders had castles in Lille, Douai and several other towns - controlling an area including not only the low-lying borders of northern France, but also what is now Belgium and the Netherlands. The Count was supposed to owe loyalty to the king of France, but the king was weak and safely distant. Like lords in other outlying areas such as Brittany in the west and Burgundy in the east, the Count ruled Flanders up in the north pretty much as a separate kingdom
Baldwin I With the Iron Arm....................858-879
Baldwin II the Bald............................879-918
Arnulf I the Great.............................918-964
Baldwin III....................................960-962
Arnulf II......................................964-988
Baldwin IV Greatbeard..........................988-1036
Baldwin V the Pious...........................1036-1067
Baldwin VI the Good...........................1067-1070
Arnulf III the Unlucky........................1070-1072
Robert I the Frisian..........................1072-1092
Robert II the Crusader........................1092-1111
Baldwin VII With the Axe......................1111-1119
Charles I the Good............................1119-1127
William I Clito...............................1127-1128
Dietrich......................................1128-1168
Philip I......................................1168-1191
Margaret I (fem.).............................1191-1194
Baldwin VIII the Brave (Hainault 1171-1195)...1191-1195
Baldwin IX (Hainault: Latin Emperor 1204-5)...1195-1205
Jeanne (fem.) (Hainault)......................1205-1244
Margaret II (fem.) (Hainault 1244-53, 56-79)..1244-1279


HOLLAND
County of West Frisia (the northern part of the province of North-Holland, including the island of Texel.
Gerulf I...................................fl. 833-856
Gerulf II..................................fl. 885-889
Dirk I.....................................fl. 921-928
Dirk I (apparently different from above)...fl. 928-939
Dirk II..................................c. 939 ? -988
Arnulf of Ghent................................988-993
Dirk III Jerusalem-Farer.......................993-1039
Dirk IV.......................................1039-1049
Florent I.....................................1049-1061
Dirk V........................................1061-1091
(County of Holland; possibly named as such from c. 1083, certainly by 1101)
Florent II the Fat............................1091-1121
Dirk VI.......................................1121-1157
Florent III...................................1157-1190
Dirk VII......................................1190-1203
William I.....................................1203-1222
Florent IV....................................1222-1234
William II....................................1234-1256
Florent V the Peasant's God...................1256-1296
John I........................................1296-1299


FRISIA
Radbod I.......................................679-719
Eadgils II (or Poppo)..........................719-734
To the Carolingian Empire......................734-843
Gundebold (or Poppo)...........................734-777
Radbod II (or Dirk)............................777-806
Within Germany, and the Holy Roman Empire......800-810
Danish occupation..............................810-885
Rorik..........................................839-876/82
Godfrey........................................882-885
Within Germany and the Empire..................885-1648
Note the presence of the Gerulfings (see Holland) on the western side of the Zuider Zee and the island of Texel, who referred to themselves as Counts of West Frisia from c. 900 to 1101.
Ansfried (Bishop of Utrecht)..............fl... c. 985?
BRUNONING These Counts were, for the most part, absentee landlords, having more connections and interest with other estates located elsewhere. That being the case, affairs in Frisia rapidly began to assume the character that was maintained for over 400 years - that of a patchwork of purely local estates (mostly monastic), interspersed with market towns which were, in effect, Free States themselves.
Liudolf.....................................c.1000-1038
Bruno.........................................1038-1057
Egbert I......................................1057-1068
Egbert II.....................................1068-1088
Conrad (Bishop of Utrecht)....................1088-1099
vacant 1099-1101
Henry I the Fat...............................1101
vacant 1101-1107
Henry II......................................1107-c. 1138


LIEGE
A Prince-Bishopric in central Belgium holding a large territory. Tongeren and Maastricht are two towns north and northeast of Liege. Tongeren is in northeastern Belgium, Maastricht is located at the end of a narrow southern panhandle of the Netherlands. Each was an ecclesiastic seat, Maastricht superceding Tongeren and being absorbed in turn by Liege.
Hubert.........................................706-727
Florebert I....................................727-746
Fulcher......................................?.747-765
Agilfrid.......................................765-784
Gerobald.....................................?.784-809
Walkand........................................810-836
Pirard.........................................836-840
Hirchar........................................841-855
Franco.........................................856-903
Stephen........................................903-920
Richard........................................920-945
Hugh I.........................................945-947
Florebert II...................................947-953
Rather.........................................954-956
Balderic I.....................................956-959
Heraclius......................................959-972
Rotger.........................................972-1007
Balderic II van Looz..........................1007-1018
Walbod........................................1018-1021
Durand........................................1021-1025
Reginar.......................................1025-1038
Nithard.......................................1039-1042
Azzo..........................................1042-1048
Dietrich of Bavaria...........................1048-1075
Henry I de Toul...............................1075-1091
Otbert........................................1092-1119
Frederick de Namur............................1119-1121
Alberon I de Louvain..........................1121-1128
Alexander I von Jülich........................1128-1135
Alberon II de Namur...........................1135-1145
Henry II von der Leyen........................1145-1164
Alexander II von Orle.........................1165-1167
Rudolph von Zahringen.........................1167-1191
Albert de Brabant.............................1191-1192
Lothar von Hochstaden.........................1192-1193
Simon van Limburg.............................1193-1195
Otto von Heinsberg.................................1195
Albert II van Cuyck...........................1195-1200
Hugh II Pierrepont............................1200-1229
John II de Rumigny............................1229-1238
William of Savoy..............................1238-1239
Robert I Thorote..............................1240-1246
Henry III van Gelders.........................1247-1274
John III de Enghien...........................1274-1281
William II de Auvergne.............................1282
John IV of Flanders...........................1282-1292

What da ya´ll think?

This mod is starting to look really promising http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-2thumbsup.gif

Earlier E.C mentioned three possible german factions; the Frankish, the Obodrites and the Veletis. Has anyone more info on theese states?

Is this mod finished?