"Girls Gone Wild: Total War would be cool - Lots of cat fights.
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"Girls Gone Wild: Total War would be cool - Lots of cat fights.
Any of you played Age of Empires II: Age of Kings? Remember the Chu Ko Nu? Now imagine that in the China Total War game. 3 rapid fire volleys of arrows. Can you say "Death Incarnate?"...I get chills.
I think it would be nice to see a progression of the various ages. R:TW is nice, but wouldn't it be cool to see it progress to a more modern age ala Civilization III with a much nicer interface?
I would like to see the Greek/Persian wars in the next version (please!) ~;)
An English Civil War game would be good, in my view. The period's weaponry is much more game dynamics-friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed TW
Funny. ~D
By the by, I think America is about the last setting I would want for a Total War game. Not that I don't love my country, but in terms of replayability and overall interest, I think it would make a relatively dull backdrop for a TW game.
I really want Napoleonic warfare, so I want that the next Total War game should be in 1500 to 1900 century. GUNPOWDER!!
I am also a very big fanatic about the American Civil War, so American Civil War: Total War would be nice or as an expansion.
I saw pictures of a Total War lookalike game in Swedish PCGamer based on Napoleonic warfare, but I disslike it cause it's not created by CA. I think they using same grafic motor as in R:TW.
This would definitely be the most entertaining version of the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Ed TW
:charge:
If you think about this logically- what is needed to make a good TW game?
*Multiple Balanced factions (This rules out *Any civil war games - note the word balanced)
*A setting that is rich in history, yet it still does not have to be a well known era. I would like to be educated about an era. Part of the fun of all this is that we DO argue about historical facts.
*Variety and adversity must be a plenty.
Taken from that, China or Napoleonic would be good candidates.
Total War does not want to die a slow death tho, and therefore needs to be inovative to gather/keep hold of the interest.
Napolionic was a successful mod to MTW - so I doubt they will follow that route - its hardly *new* if someone else has done it.
What other options? well anything european is probably a no-no as MTW and Rome has focused in that area, and the map is all too familiar now. North America, hmmm not enough diversity and variet to make a *balanced* factionable game - unless it was set in the colonisation period, with Portugese, Spanish, Dutch, French, British, Independant, Mexican, and native factions. But Im not sure that has an atmospheric feel to it as the other games have.
So China? Well imho this would probably be a very good option. I cant fault it and I would certainly be more interested in learning about that culture and period.
As for fantasy, I think there is great potential here for a TW game although I doubt they will. Not only will they draw in interest from the fantasy and rpg fans (I play RPG NWN online - and no one has heard of MTW - a few heard about RTW.) but it would keep its own player base and I think would make a nice profit if done correctly.
That being said it would *have* to be done in a history-rich fantasy setting. There are four well-known settings to choose from - Warhammer/Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Middle Earth. TW would have to negotiate rights for this and that wouldnt look likely - well except Middle -earth - didnt Tolkein do away with the rights to reproduce his work?
One place I didnt mention was Africa - I would not be suprised if they looked to that continent for inspiration.
Well, colonial wars could be very interesting...
One of the first games made by the one and the only god of strategy - Sid Meier, is Colonoziation. It's setting is both Americas. There are only 4 powers (playable factions) - English, French, Spanish and Dutch. The period of game is since Amerigo Vespucci's discovery till Industrial Revolution. The game is quite boring since you had to train a specific worker for a specific task and then spend 20 minutes every turn moving your hordes of workers about.
What that game had is a soul and flavour. At the beginning you had one measly caravel a worker and a soldier and you had to settle those unknown lands filled with savages. At the end of the game, you have a big ripe nation that is fighting its war for independance. When you finished it, the rush from the sense of accomplishment was great!
So the Pope would be your king, you'd have superior weapons and horses but the you'd be vastly overnumbered by savages. European factions would be England, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal. I'm sure a dedicated gamemaker can come up with 7-8 native factions. And the final invasion (Golden Horde, Mongols anyone?) would be your own king coming to reclaim colonies.
Or Middle East 2500BC-0BC. Expansion pack: Roman Invasion??? :)
How about 'Innovative: Total war'
That would make for some variety from the usual scheeme.
How about tribal warfare in smaller scale for example, with more focus around the individual men, where every head counts and the fight is about the winter storage? You could guide your own little tribe through the many hazards of nature, fight of and incorporate other tribes into your own, making sure your breeding stock is secure for your band of warriors/hunters to stay strong. There would be no such thing as 'units' in the game, instead you'd 'train'(build) weapons, and assign these to your men, who all have their own individual skills, which develop with battle and hunting experience.
This concept could be further developed with different kind of tribes, like hunter tribes, slavers, farming tribes, traders and so on, nomadic or settled. All these with different strenghts and weaknessess. Maybe there would be an ability to develop tribe specifics in game, and make composite tribes by combining the different sorts by incoorporating them into your own.
Tribes:Total strife ~:cheers:
Anyway, I would like for the focus of the TW-package to be, not so much on the next setting, but instead adding innovative designs to it and achieve play-value like so, this could be done to any new time-frame and/or focus or even the old ones. It would mean taking steps away from what TW already represents, but that does'nt have to be a bad thing. the things I liked most about Rome was not the graphics or the tech trees or the units, it was the family tree and the fact that you need population to recruit, it was the new possibilities the campaign-map offers. These are the sort of changes that should define a new game, not a new unit pack or a different setting.
That's what I'd like for the official, let's leave repeating the old deal to the modders, they too are quite skilled and resourceful.
Tha Hood: Total War
_________________
game overview:
The campaign spans through a dark period in Californian history, 1974-2009.
Play as 6 different factions battling for turf, 1 inch at a time.
The Crips, The Bloods, The Skinheads, El Banditos, The Man, or Triads.
While "the Man" faction may have superior cavalry such as tanks and SWAT transports (which outclasses the gang factions' uzi Pintos with hydrolics) they lose the advantage of diplomacy, which gang factions have. Marry off your hoes to form alliances, send Beatboxers to preach in other provinces, or send Graffiti artists to raise happiness and persecute people not of your faction.
Command historic leaders such as Wiggles B Reel, Doggy Dawg Dizzle, and Rex Malone L.A.P.D
Buy unit upgrades such as Nike tennis shoes to raise speed in battle or crack cocaine to raise morale and attack.
Game soundtrack features Ice Cube and 50 cent
No famous Chinese Generals from the Three Kingdoms era? I have to come out of lurking to say this :laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetah
The basic volume of strategy comes from a General who was the high commander of all the forces of the Kingdom of Wu. Ever heard of Sun Tzu? He wrote this book, you see. It was called the Art of War. Great read. Or ever heard of Zhuge Liang? Pang Tong? Many people have. I would say that China Total War meets the famous general condition.
And while there were 3 larger factions, more could easily be incorporated. Several other kingdoms existed during the time that could be used. While I may be missing something here, I think that there would be enough to make a TW game if they tried hard enough.
And on the "sellability" aspect about China. That is just foolish, I am sorry to say. Before Rocky, nobody liked boxing movies. You just didn't make them. But it worked, didn't it? And anyway, there have been several succesful console titles from Chinese history. Dynasty Warriors, the ROTK games, Kessen II are a few better known examples.
Sorry if that post sounded a bit flamy, but I just had to get it off.
"1, I am afraid that most of the Chinese generals are unknown to the potential Europian or US costumers."
The first Total War game, Shogun: Total War was also based on a chapter of history or culture that many European or US costumers were not known to, that did not stop its success.
I say they should do Mongol again, this time focus into the whole Mongolian empire during the old days that would connect half of the world.
personally i think the napoleonic era would be great.u have the british,french,russians,prussians,dutch,americans,saxons,hanoverians,polish,belgiums,italians,spanis h and so on.lots of different factions.they would have to do a lot of work to the engine for firearms.its has the potential for great calvary battles.i hope this is the next game.
Do you guys really expect the TW team to do over something theyve done before?
(this includes napoleonic - its was done as a mod - and therefore isnt new ground)
I think not - it wont bring in new customers and some existing ones wont buy because of the *weve been here before* feeling.
New territory is the only way to entice and hold on to customers
^^^ I think a Shogun remake could find an audience
For the game to really work there has to be a choice of factions, as opposed to choosing one or other side. You also need a good historical backdrop and a massive diversity of units. For this reason China would make an excellent backdrop. Similarly, the part of asia that's now known as India would make an excellent setting. It's also worth noting that ancient continental american history has loads of potential: the Mayans and Aztec civilisations would make excellent games.
"I am afraid that most of the Chinese generals are unknown " ........ well 99% of all the Roman history I know I either learned from Total War, or read about since playing. If the game is compelling I don't think it matters at all.
Cunnilingus: Haha, that's hilarious.
Graphic:
I agree, but how about a slightly different focus this time around?
Think about this:
Instead of being the leader of whatever clan you play and be in charge of absolutely everything, would it not be totally awesome if you started of as a low ranking retainer who had to fight his way up the ladder?
So whenever a battle is fought, if you are assigned to that army, you will participate in it at respective level. First you might only have yourself and a bunch of ashigaru attendants to command, and you yourself might be part of a company which you have to follow around and fight with. Every unit will respond to the chain of command as they see fit, from the generals right down to the individual samurai and his attendants.
Preform well, do brave deeds, and you might get promoted. You might eventually get your own little village to tend, and you'll be tasked with recruiting your own samurai to bring to whatever battle your daimyo is fighting, but this time you may instead be fighting as a captain, or maybe even a general. And with luck and skill, one day you may be daimyo yourself, and will be fighting for the prize of shogun for your own sake.
So whenever you'll be facing upwards, you'll have others objectives to follow, but below you the game would preform like any other TW title, except that your retainers will do you biddings with varying skills, and they will have their own goals just as you have.
Thats sounds to me like the ultimate Total War setup, it would cover the subject on a whole new level of detail, one that I think has been sorely missing in the previous games. It would introduce chain of command, and morale based not on company level, but on a more individual scope. This might finally give you the oppertunity to see at least that one brave retainer who stays and fight while all the other mangy curs runs away with their tails between their legs.
TomteOfDoom:
That does sound like an interesting approach.
Would the path for the player extend all the way to being in charge of the nation?
I suspect with such an approach the AI would have to be top notch (for handling the larger game-related activities and battles). I wonder if it would be up to snuff...
On a related note:
I think overall, Napoleonic: TW would get the most recognition from gamers. And perhaps have the greatest appeal. I have been watching "Napoleon" on TV (the 8 hour mini-series), and it has generated in me a lot of interest to play a Napoleonic game...
Cheers!
Pericles:
At least being in control of the nation would be the ultimate goal.
I'm not so sure the AI would nessesarily suffer by introducing such a system. By trying to make the procedures of the AI as similar to real life workings I think it's preformance could instead be improved. If every unit has it's own 'AI' suited for it's specific tasks, it has less to be concerned with, thus less can go wrong, that would be better than just one routine running an entire faction/battle. For battles there would still be a 'general AI' deciding the manouvers and such, it would be better for this routine not to be concerned with fine-tuning every last regiment and unit on the battlefield, this I think would instead cause it to make wierd descisions, that might seem correct to the general picture it has, but might in fact be completely crazy to whatever detail is concerned.
Let's say the AI is instead divided up in a realistic chain of command. The top AI might only have more abstract terms to handle, say advance, charge, halt, defend and retreat orders to give to either wing or the center of his lines, and also specialised orders to give to the entire army. It does not in fact decide where every last unit is supposed to go and do. This would make it easier for the general AI to respond to the opponents movements and designs.
Then, these general orders are recieved by the regiments, and they act to them in whatever manner is sound to their current situation. So the regiment checks it's location once it's aware of the general agenda, which is, say flank left. So if it's now on the left flank, the regiment makes a push. A regiment on the right flank has the same orders, it does instead stand it's ground. The regiments also check their situation, although on a lower priority, and acts according to whatever stress is being applied to them. Under fire=leave field of fire, nearby unit outflanked=assist. Getting ass handed to= signal for help/fall back.
Proceeding to the lowest level, every last individual also acts in the same way, these are the men that are drilled to follow orders, so according to the units cohersion, it arranges itself in whatever way ordered, but at the same time, running checks of it's own situation, so if the regiment is actually on a move order, but it get's attacked in the flank while still preforming it, the attacked soldiers will not simply keep marching, but instead stop and defend themselfes, and also alert their comrades of the situation. this would eliminate all those little beauty flaws making the soldiers seem like stupid bots instead of real soldiers.
All these things would, at the same time as making the AI more responsive to the direct action and act more sensible to it, also free it up of a lot of complicated calculations. Everything would instead be very simple and consequentual. It would mean a lot of simple routines, instead of a few very complicated ones.
I mean, there's a reason as to why a king would assign titles and hold vassals, there's a reason to why the owner of a company is not tasked with every last duty that his company concerns itself with. An AI simulating the commanding factor of an army or a nation should by all means be arranged in a similar fashion. It's actually the only, truly sensible thing to persue when creating a war simulation.
TomteOfDoom:
That's an interesting and good idea. I'd definitely want to play something like that. One other thing they could introduce in a new Shogun is the ability to have duels. It will never happen because RTS players don't want to play a fighting game but I'm a also a fan of console fighting games so I'd love it. It's just another thing to add to the game that actually did happen. They could do duels another way but I can't think of any other ways besides direct fighting-game style controls that would be fun to me.
I think they'll choose an MMORPG
My vote is for Fantasy: Total War.
I really enjoyed the challenge in the old Warhammer games: Dark Omen and Shadow of a Horned Rat. which were in some ways very similar to the Total War games. I also think it would be nice for CA to put some new stuff into the next game instead of just the basic infantry, cavalry, artillery (rock/scissors/paper) model. Would be nice to see some spellcasters and a spell system, which would alter battle dynamics considerably. An artifact system would be welcome too, providing another means for generals to improve their unit features.
Some flying units like dragons/wyverns/pegasus riders would spice up the game considerably. There was a game called Black Moon Chronicles which did large scale battles showing individual units but while the game was certainly atmospheric, I found it too chaotic and hard to control. The AI was rather shoddy too. If the model could be refined for a Total War game that would be great.
Another old wargame which serves as a good reference is Fantasy General (an offshoot from the Panzer General series of games). Again a nice memorable game for its time.
While the 3 Total War games have certainly been entertaining, it is my hope that they can break out a little from the general mould and introduce some extra stuff to keep their players hooked with a wider range of tactical options like spells, flying raids, breath attacks, etc...
Provided the AI is up to the mark, I sincerely believe that it would be reasonably popular.
I suppose China: Total War could be a workable alternative, but I'm pretty sick of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era which has already been done to death by other games and really would like to see something else. Perhaps a pre-Qin dynasty setting would be a nice change as mentioned by Rolling Wave.
As for the other settings, I'm not really familiar with the history behind them and can't comment much. I don't at all mind reading up on history of a particular faction though. If the gameplay is good, I'll certainly be encouraged to delve in a little more detail.
I was thinking...if China Total War was made both 3 Kingdoms and pre-Qin eras would probably be included, and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhuge
Graphic:
Well.. Samurai did indeed enjoy a more personal touch to their warfare, thus they often singled out worthy opponents on the battlefield and had a private go against eachother. This was less common during the sengoku jidai, but I wouldn't say it did not happen. Then there were the duels of field, but these were not so common for employed samurai as they were for ronin or those undertaking a musha shugyo(often it was even forbidden to hold duels within a clan or against others). These duels were most often not fought with lethal weapons either.
But honestly, if you like console style fighting, then a seriously portraited duel would probably not be very interesting to your taste. All you'd have to do most often would be to decide what attack to bet on, time it and then execute, one strike and a duel was most commonly over, there were rarely any prolonged fights, if not counting the stand-of before the strike, which could often last a while.
Ofcourse it would be an interesting element to add to such a game, different fighting schools to choose from, and deciding what focus you want to train yourself and your retainers in.
Lord Hornburg:
It's actually not such a bad idea, and it would definately sell as a cool touch. Ever heard of a game called 'sword of the samurai'? That was for it's time, true computer entertainment, a game that had a little bit of everything. Sort of like Pirates!, but concerning the life of the samurai.
The duels would not necessarily have to be played personally, yet alone accepted, but samurai weren't really strangers to test their skills against eachother, and also having tea-partys, read poems and then sleep with one another. Like, would it not be totally awesome to have these things played out console-style too?
XYXO=exceptional tea-pour
Up+down XY=Sofisticated sip
Up+down XX=Mistakedly place your dagger in guests face
Left+left OY=Out of place phrase or saying
It would be all about learning the right moves and avoiding the bad ones to score points, and if you're sucessful, you'll get some of that sweet male bonding.
Seriously, the throne room I felt, was a great touch in STW, imagine having a home rendered as such to retreat back to between battles and manageing your 'feif'. There you could overview your finances, go thru past deeds, have a look at collected heads and the family tree, decide your kids educational focus, hold audiences and tea ceremonies to tie personal bonds... And also do all the other samurai miscellaneous. It would be like a further development of the throne room so to speak, a quite hefty one.
I think such touches brings more life and atmosphere to a game, and also keeps it fresh much longer. It would really be in place with a game simulating the life of a warrior. Just having the battles would only be half the deal. If you don't get the feeling of what it's for in the game, it will all appear hollow. But if you get the feeling that you character has a life, and that his superiors, retainers and children do too, the battles and their content would also become more flavoured. you can imagine how it works for yourself ofcourse.
But sure, if you are the kind of gamer who just wants to throw yourself against the action non-stop, til it forces it's way out of your noses, and you basically get fed up with the game too quickly, then it would ofcourse be an option to turn these functions of to be handeled by AI or more abstractly by yourself. There would ofcourse be hotkeys for stuff like preform seppuko, end turn and find suitable match for children, you would also have the ability to qeue them, which would enable you to twist a marrage for the next generation before it's even grown up. Dropdown menus would cluster up the screen, in an effective monocrome color, monotone voices would keep you posted on koku flow and you'd have an in-game mp3-player where you may play your favourite goa and house-trackz to get that adrenaline pumpin for the phat, non-stop action!
Hmm... maybe. After all Medieval also had 3 separate time periods and managed all of them admirably. There were notable periods of turmoil in China's long history. I'm certain they could be adapted well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
But if CA reasons that part of the success of Medieval was because it was closer to the hearts of a Western/European audience then they might not really warm to the idea of a China: Total War.
I still believe that making a Fantasy: Total War would cut across borders and be a success. It would be a fresh experience with more scope and less limits on units and they wouldn't have to bother with historical correctness.
I totally do not think the total war series is exhausted as some players have said. There are just so many wars in the history, plenty of things to be done. They can even re-make some of the games, such as ROME, but giving more detailed area, locations, rather than just have 3 towns to represent the whole of England.
Long live TW!
Personally, I would really like to see one that’s based on Mongol culture, first, I love how these light armoured-none armoured horsemen was kicking the butts of the medieval full metal armoured people. I just love their horse archers as well.
Secondly, on how the Khans expand their world actually connects with much different culture, which many people could relate to.
^^ In order to duplicate Mongol tactics correctly, their horse archers need to be able to shoot on the run and at each soldiers will (i.e. no "volleys"). Did they do this in RTW?
I don't know if you've played the older games but Mongols are in both Medieval: Total War and Shogun: Total War (Mongol Invasion expansion)