@Ignoramus
'Count Palatinate' is simply the title for an elector, so there are many different areas all calling themselves Palatinate today.
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@Ignoramus
'Count Palatinate' is simply the title for an elector, so there are many different areas all calling themselves Palatinate today.
Well, Huss was preaching in 1440's.
Much more likely to have something like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Narayanese
http://www.users.on.net/~roehr/RTW/LutherEvent.jpg
Note, I knocked that up in about 5 minutes, so excuse the crappy text.
Wow I expected people to tar and feather me for suggesting to get rid of the Pope (note: I know how this sounds in the light of what happened last night please accept my apologies).
The Senate would be the Imperial Diet as they are very close in their modus operandi. Plus, we really would have a massive showdown and a German civil war, which would be great. The only problem is we have to find a way to delay that until around 1550, but that's mostly a question of balancing I think.
The other three German factions would be the Habsburgs and the Saxony. I am in favour of the Teutonic order being the third (they were sort of a German faction) mostly because cutting them out would create a huge hole in the Baltic area. I mean really huge, much bigger than Bohemia or Saxony. That's my reasoning. We could perhaps, nudge the starting date to 1411 - just a small change really and it would give us an excuse to enlarge Poland-Lithuania at the expense of the Teutons so the hole would be smaller.
But beware before you go into major reshuffling - all factions are culture defined and basically you have to replace a German faction with another German faction, Muslim with Muslim etc. If you start rearranging cultures then you're in a world of trouble. So do not go down that road I beg you...
So the question of a third German faction would be open - either Teutons, Bohemia or Saxony. In this case (startind date 1411) I'm split between Bohemia and Saxony, maybe slightly in favour of Saxony. I don't like Bohemia as a major player in the region apart from the Hussite wars. And there is a problem of units to consider...
I'd gladly get rid of the pope as a faction, for such a faction wouldn't behave anywhere near historically, a rebel city of Rome would behave better.
Teutonic Knights weren't part of HRE. Milan on the other hand was part of HRE, and should be one of the senate minions. Notice for example that the imperial twoheaded black eagle was part of Milano's flag.
'Imperial Diet' means Parliament (Reichstag), it's not a geographical area, so what state and what capital are you suggesting for the senate? Any big HRE state would likely do fine, just make hte senate minions Saxony, Milan and Hapsburg.
Is this mod going to work for unpatched RTW? Some bug prevents me from running a patched RTW (same bug in both patches). It's just a difference in the roof of numbers of units, isn't it.
I can't get the banner borders right, are textures get squares instead of their proper shape (round button or pointed standard). Look at this picture. As you can see, to vanilla Selecuid standard is point downward, while the new moorish is brown around the point, that should be invisible. The round buttons have the same problem. Any solutions?
from a historical atlas:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...er_decline.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...4_shepherd.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...14_century.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...15_century.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo..._1320_1415.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...gdoms_1360.jpg
About banners - don't ask me as I know next to nothing about texturing
This mod is for patched version. The unit cap is quite an important thing for us, if you looked at the (incomplete) unit list, you may have noticed that the number of units is quite big. Easily over 300. So we need higher unit cap.
But fear not. Complete conversions are a time consuming business and we won't be done with it before the end of this year. So by the time we finish with both the strategy and the battle part of the mod (I hope we will finish the battles by October or November, before the campaign so we can play some custom battles as soon as posible), the expansion will be out, or another patch that will fix many bugs and perhaps add new features (like the religion idea I mentioned earlier). So we shall adapt the mod to that expansion, I hope...
Imperial Diet - we can give it a small area somwhere in the HRE where the Diet most often held its assemblies. Maybe the region centered on teh city of Augsburg?
Wikipedia says Augsburg was an Imperial Free City, with a population of 16432 in 1635. That means a imperial diet with only a single small city, which is fine for me.
The factions would be: Imperial Diet, Milan, Saxony, Hapsburg, Castile and Leon, Kalmar Union, England, France, Golden Horde, Hungary, Mamluks, Moors, Poland, Muscovy, Ottoman Turks, Venice, Teutonic Knights, Burgundy, Naples, Scotland.
Reassuring. Anyway if it's just the unit cap then I can simply remove a few of them, if the problem still persists.Quote:
But fear not /---/ to that expansion, I hope...
The problem is, Milan was never willingly part of the Empire and wasn't "German". If we have Bavaria, which became one of the most powerful states in the 15th and 16th centuries, and it was mainly due to Bavaria that the Catholics did so well in the 30 Year's War.
I got new banners working for Greek Cities at least, s you can see in the screenshot thread.
Bavaria or Milan or other is just a matter of taste, as long as it's HRE. IMHO Milan is better because you get italian units, and it had some fighting with Venice early on.Quote:
The problem is, Milan was never willingly part of the Empire and wasn't "German". If we have Bavaria, which became one of the most powerful states in the 15th and 16th centuries, and it was mainly due to Bavaria that the Catholics did so well in the 30 Year's War.
Since the church had lost some of its influence we could make the HRE the roman factions, make one a nearby but subservient faction if possible to increase the diversity (such as Milan) and make the papacy a normal faction or just give a unique unit trainable only by Italians in Rome, like elite swiss gaurds.
This sounds quite reasonable and sounds good in theory. Hopefully it will work well. We will have to find some way to provoke the civil war though. I like the idea of having the Imperial diet a tiny city. I believe the Senate faction is made to be docile militarily, so that would help.
For the events such as the 95 theses can anyone draw the pictures? or do we want to use miscellanious pictures or drawings from outside sources. I think for the beginning we can have just miscellanious pictures but we should try to move towards our own work so that it will have a similar feel.
Just to let everyone know I am going to be messing around in RTW files just to see where everything is and see what happens when I change things.
Here, I've worked out a possible set of factions and cultures:
Western Culture:
England
Scotland
France
Burgundy
Castile
Kalmar Union
German Culture:
Imperial Diet
Saxony
Bavaria
Hapsburgs
Italian Culture:
Venice
Milan
Naples
Islamic Culture
Ottomans
Mamluk Sultanate
Moors
The Golden Horde
Bohemian Culture:
Bohemia
Eastern European Culture:
Russia
Poland
Well, what do you think? I put Bohemia as a seperate culture, because it felt very independant, and basically was another culture. I put Bavaria instead of Milan as the last Imperail minion, because otherwise: (a) It mucks up the cultures. (b) It is ahistorical, because although Milan technically was part of the Empire, it was really independant.
I know, not much variety, but maybe you could add a unique unit for 2 of the minions.
My main point is that having Milan as a Imperial minion, would make Milan expand into Venice or France, but having Bavaria, which would have to expand into Italy is a much more historical option.
Your Opinions?
Cultures cannot be changed, so we have to fit the factions into the existing cultures. This is what I've been fearing, it's a domino effect, you change one little thing and the whole things comes crashing down like a house of cards...
So, for one, Muslim culture is derived from the Eastern culture in Rome, and only has 3 faction slots - Moors, Mamluks and Ottomans (Parthians, Pontus and Armenia). So the GH has to go into a different culture, in this case the Egyptian which now becomes the Mongol culture (even though they were by this point all Muslims, but Mongols were never very good Muslims, ie they retained a lot of their older beliefs and were not very pious so this works out nicely). But that will have to change
The Roman culture is the Imperial culture in this case, I also wouldn't like Milan as the HRE minion they were an Italian city, but instead of Bavaria we should think about the Teutons. I know they weren't exactly minions, but they were German, and would give us some diversity in units. I'm not in love with the Teutonic knights in fact I don't like them as a faction that much, it's just that we should strive to have an equal dispertion of these blank spots throughout Europe (factions that we don't have the slots to include in game and that leave a large gap that can only be filled with rebels). And eastern Europe is full of such blank spots (Greek cities that still resisted the Ottomans, Wallachia, Moldavia, Bohemia, Teutons, Novgorod - all quite large tracts of land, plus various German states that we won't include).
This leaves us with three more cultures - Barbarian with 6 slots, Carthaginian with 2, and Greek with 4.
Barbarian would have to be the West Europe culture - Scotland, England, France, Burgundy, Spain, and Kalmar Union. It is the only culture that gives us the necessary number of factions.
you put in Bohemia instead of Hungary but that is a very poor choice. Hungary was a much more important faction, in the 15th century they were perhaps one of the strongest states in Europe. Bohemia was at times a vassal of Hungary. In fact, at the beginning of the mod, Hungary was ruled by Sigismund of teh Luxemburg house, and he was at the time, ruler of Bohemia as well. Bohemia was in a similar situation as Croatia. It was semi independant, it had it's own king, a different kingdom than it's neighboring states, but that king was almost always a foreigner, a German, Pole or Hungarian. So in effect, they were in a personal union with other states, more powerful states that dominated their affairs.
And also Hungary is much bigger than Bohemia - the blank spots I was talking about earlier.
Bohemia shares the fate of many German states - we don't have the slots to include them all.
So we have to shuffle cultures about and I hate doing that. It undermines everything. One option and a very good one would be to do it like you did swap Muslim faction and the Italian faction, but Bohemia that takes the place of Mongols/Egypt is a waste of a slot and would have to be changed. Since Hungary is omitted I guess that. Also, no Teutons, and no Pope might be a problem for some people. I personaly don't care much about the Papal state (because it should be more like the Pope in MTW not like the Senate), but to me Teutons are a problem because of the major hole that makes in the Baltic area. We should then change the starting date to 1411, although by what I've read today, after 1410, nothing changed much, status quo as it was before the battle of Tannenberg.
We should also keep in mind that before we shall finish this mod, the expansion will be out. And we can only guess what new things will be added. For one, we can reasonably suppose that they will give us more factions, or even remove the limitation altogether. Maybe we shall see new cultures like the Huns (seems reasonable that the expanion will be The Hun Invasion), or even incorporate religion of some sort. Sp we should always keep an open mind to changes. The way I see it, we absolutey know we shall have France, England, Spain, Scotland, Burgundy, Habsburgs, Saxony, Venice, Milan, Hungary, Poland, Muscovy, Ottomans, Moors, Mamluks, Golden Horde, Kalmar, Naples and a Senate faction - either Pope or Imperial diet. The rest should be found among Teutons, Bavaria (subject to what we decide on the Pope issue). Possible additional factions, if new slots do appear in the expansion, would be Wallachia, Greek cities, Ireland, Dutch, Tamerlane and his empire, Portugal...
The issue at hand now is whether or not to:
1. Make the Imperial diet faction as Senate, instead of the Pope. If no, then the whole debate is a not necessary
2. If yes, then which is the third German faction: Teutons, Bavaria
3. If we remove the Teutons, we have to decide to either
A) remove them altogether from the game
B) remove one of the other faction in order to still keep the Teutons
4. Finally, do we leave the Pope as a normal faction (which means we have to remove one existing factions to make room - a very bad idea).
So I would kindly ask everybody to stick to this system at the moment. First we decide whether or not to do the switch between the Pope and the Diet. Then and only then we move on to the next issue. Otherwise we shall never decide on anything.
Also, because this is a major issue, we should hear from everybody. Simply state yes or no to the Senate debate. I will post a poll thread but please limit yourselves to simply voting on the first question, we can debate later when we get the results.
An idea - one of the offices that the Diet/Senate assigns could be the emperor. Because there were emperors before the supposed civil war for power, just not very powerful ones...
I have an idea. Both Poland and Hungary (instead of Bohemia) are one culture, Eastern European. Muscovy is a separate culture (Egypt in RTW), an Orthodox culture. This also gives us an unexpected advantage. We can define the rebels in Greece as this culture. That way, we shall get the correct culture penalties, buildings and units.
So in other words, Muscovy (Russia) switches places with Hungary (Bohemia)
What do you think?
If the pope still is the senate and there is no change of factions, then this I think is good (not sure what to call the rebels though):
*Barbarian: (west europe)
Castile and Leon
Kalmar Union
England
France
Burgundy
Scotland
*Rebel=West European Independent State
*Greek: (muslim)
Golden Horde
Moors
Mamluks
Ottoman Turks
*Rebel=Muslim Independent State
*Eastern: (german)
Hapsburg
Teutonic Knights
Saxony
*Rebel=German Free Imperial City
*Roman: (italian)
Church State
Venice
Milan
Naples
*Rebel=Italian Duchy
*Egypt: (orthodox)
Muscovy
*Rebel=Orthodox Christian Independent State
*(including balkan rebels)
*Carthaginian: (east catholic europe)
Poland
Hungary
*Rebels=Central European Independent State
Narayanese Ignorams said there were only three slots in the eastern culture, you placed four factions in it. Is he wrong or are you wrong?
I have been messing around with the Companion Cavalry and have figured out pretty much everyting a wld eed t be abe to mosify unit stats,it is qte easy. just had to find the file and search in it with control f for the unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yggdrasill
Well, I made the Italians in the Eastern Culture and the Muslims the Greek culture. what's wrong with that?
I forgot about Hungary, they should replace Bohemia.
Hey, I just heard that Activision will make a RTW expanision called Barbarian Invasion to be released in September! That may help us!
I placed the three german factions in eastern. But if numidia is egyptian rhen Egypt: (orthodox) and Carthaginian: (east catholic europe) would have to switched in my list.Quote:
Narayanese Ignorams said there were only three slots in the eastern culture, you placed four factions in it. Is he wrong or are you wrong?
If I am to believe the captain banner rebel textures, these are the faction cultures:
eastern (3): Armenia, Parthia, Pontus
barbarian (6): Briton, Dacia, German, Gaul, Scythia, Spain
carthaginian (1): Carthage
egyptian (2): Egypt, Numidia
greek (4): Greek Cities, Macedon, Selecuid, Thrace
roman (4): senate, brutii, julii, scipii, slave
I think Numidia is the same culture as Carthage.
Here is a translation of the golden bull of 1356, the HRE constitution.
It says the electors were to meet in Frankfort on the Main at the death of the emperor and elect a new one there, and that they are not allowed to bring overly many armsmen with them to Frankfort.
The three chancellors (of Germany, of Italy, of Gaul and Arles) were bishops acting as arbiters, and I've read elsewhere examples where they led armies in HRE:s wars, so I think them should be ancillary characters. The offices of cupbearer, marchall etc were hereditary offices, the saxon duke was arch-marshall of the holy empire, austria had no office.
There are 6 senate offices. I agrre with Yggdrasill that Emperor is is good choice for the highest office, I can't find any other historical offices though.
I think you're right. Looked through textfiles, they give the impression that numidia is cartaginian.Quote:
I think Numidia is the same culture as Carthage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Where did you hear that? I've been waiting for ages to hear some news on the expansion, can you post a link where you saw it?
Your list is good. Apart from the Hungary-Bohemia mix up and the change in teh East Europe culture (Hungary instead of Russia). If we go for the Imperial Diet then we'll use that list.
On Rtw Heavengames.
The guy scanned in the page, that it was on, although it didn't give away any more information, than it's going to be released in september.
All right, hopefully the expansion will give them an excuse to free up some of the restrictions, such as those on number of factions and cultures. If they could just tell us how to do that or soemthing...
I have pmed Eastside to see what progress he has made on the camp map, I am also going to update the progress report as I think we have gotten some quantifiable progress made.
Will Naples be ruled by an angevin king (an independent branch of the french royal family), or an aragon king (an independent branch of the aragonese royal family)? The banner I've made for Naples is angevin, because they ruled in 1402.
Nice to hear about an expansion ~D.
In my opinion as long as a faction was strong or was not completely doomed in 1402 they should be as they were. Unfortunately we do not have enough factions to always do this, but with the factions we chose we will be doing that. In my opinion Angevin it is.
I think angevin also
The diet seems to have a solid lead over the pope, so perhaps you could tell what factions and cultures you want?
Can you have different cultures for the senate minions (eg can milan hapsburg diet saxony be senate but hapsburg saxony diet teutonic be german), you can, can't you?
I don't understand the "counter-reformation", was Poland orthodox christian in the 15th century? And what about hungary (culture and religion)?
The diet and minions must all be roman culture.
I don't know much about counter reformation.