Well 'guilty your honor' myselve ~D Living above a coffeeshop has it's (dis)advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Well 'guilty your honor' myselve ~D Living above a coffeeshop has it's (dis)advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Oooo... Europe cofee houses... My friend's dream is to go to Amsterdam and vist on of those cofee shops. ~D
And what disadvantages? ~:confused:
~;)
Amsterdam is the last place you should go if you want to have something decent, one big tourist trap. But it is still a good idea to go there, because it is just the coolest city on earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
This kind of blatant anti-jewish sympathy and Nazi glorification is to be expected from the palastinians.. they are simply a barbaric people.
they are a barbaric people just like the british we have our share of racists also they glorify the nazis.
QUOTE]Allow me to quote Menachim Begin 'In june 1967, we again had a choice. The egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselve. We decided to attack him'.[/QUOTE]
!st off you said Israel was never atttacked. I take that as a bad joke. You then jump to 1967. What about all the years before that. You might like to start in 1948. Learn a bit of history before making such absurd remarks as Israel was never attacked. Even in 1967 they were being shelled from the otherside of the border but that I guess soesnt count as no troops crossed the border. I believe they also closed the waterways leading to Isreal and said that they were going to crush Isreal. You however say that because Begin said he was an expansionist the arabs had the right to attack Israel. I see a bit of hypocracy here.
Oh you mean the massacre on civilians (ooops) I mean war of 1948. Sharon didn't mention Quitya for nothing, along with the marks that 'the palestinians should remember 1948' No, Israel was never attacked. They did got shelled from the totally absolete artillery on the Gholan hights, well that is hardly war is it.
Come on now Fragony what you just stated is not true.
A little long - but lets at least tell the historical truth.Quote:
First phase: November 29, 1947 - April 1, 1948
Right after the UN partition plan was approved, heavy fighting broke out in Palestine. The British Army frequently intervened, but as the end of British involvement in Palestine drew nearer and attacks on them by Irgun and Lehi increased, their intervention grew steadily more inconsistent and reluctant.
On December 18 the Palmach, the kibbutz-based force of the Haganah commanded by Moshe Dayan, attacked the village of Khissas. Three weeks later the first Arab irregulars arrived and the Arab leadership began to organize Palestinians in order to wage guerrilla war against the Jewish forces. The largest group was a volunteer army, the Arab Liberation Army, created by the Arab League and led by Arab nationalist Fawzi Al-Qawuqji. In January and February, Arab irregular forces attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine but achieved no substantial successes.
The Arabs concentrated their efforts on cutting off roads to Jewish towns and Jewish neighborhoods in areas with mixed populations. They also massacred several Jewish convoys. At the end of March, the Arabs completely cut off the vital road going from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem where one sixth of Palestine's Jews lived.
The Haganah armed itself with arms bought from Czechoslovakia. The Yishuv began working on a plan called Plan Dalet (or Plan D).
[edit]
Second phase: April 1, 1948 - May 15, 1948
Jewish forces proved to be militarily stronger than the Arabs expected, and by May their forces were counterattacking Arab towns and villages, especially those controlling roads to isolated Jewish populations.
The road to Jerusalem was interdicted by Arab fighters located in the villages surrounding the road. The city of Jerusalem was under siege by the Arabs. Numerous convoys of trucks bringing food and other supplies to the besieged city were attacked. In Operation Nachshon, the Haganah continued its attacks on Arab fighters co-located with civilians, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem (April 20).
Some of these villages along Jerusalem road were attacked and demolished. The April 9 massacre of at least 109 Arabs at the village of Deir Yassin inflamed public opinion in Arab countries, providing those countries further reason for sending regular troops into the conflict. Four days later, on April 13, the Arabs launched a retaliatory strike on a medical convoy traveling to Hadassah Hospital. Around 77 doctors, nurses, and other Jewish civilians were massacred.
To lift the siege, the Jewish forces (guided by the American Army Colonel David (Mickey) Marcus) constructed the Burma Road (named for the road built by the Allies from Burma to China during World War II), a make-shift winding road through the difficult mountains to Jerusalem. The Burma Road allowed the Jewish forces to relieve the Arab siege on June 9, just days before the United Nations negotiated a cease-fire. [1] (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ind...war_course.php)
Meanwhile, frantic diplomatic activity took place between all parties. On May 10, Golda Meir represented the Yishuv in the last of a long series of clandestine meetings between the Zionists and Transjordan's King Abdullah. Whereas for months there had been a tacit agreement between the Zionists and Transjordan to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, with Transjordan taking over the Arab areas, at the May 10 meeting Abdullah offered the Yishuv leadership only autonomy within an enlarged Hashemite kingdom. This was unacceptable to the Jewish leadership. Nevertheless, the Transjordanian army refrained from attacking the designated Jewish areas of Palestine in the ensuing war.
On May 13, the Arab League met and agreed to send regular troops into Palestine when the Mandate expired. Abdullah of Transjordan was named as the commander-in-chief of the Arab armies, but the various Arab armies remained largely uncoordinated throughout the war.
[edit]
Third phase: May 15, 1948 - June 11, 1948
On May 14, the British Mandate expired. The State of Israel declared itself as an independent nation, and was quickly recognized by the Soviet Union, the United States, and many other countries.
Over the next few days, approximately 1,000 Lebanese, 6,000 Syrian, 4,500 Iraqi, 5,500 Egyptian, 6,000-9,000 Transjordanian troops and unknown number of Saudi and Yemenite troops invaded Israel. Together with the few thousand irregular Arab soldiers, they faced an Israeli Zionist army numbering 30,000-35,000. Both sides increased their manpower over the following months, but the Israeli advantage grew steadily.
On May 26, 1948, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) was officially established and the Haganah, Palmach and Etzel were dissolved into the army of the young Jewish state.
However, on paper, the Arabs had clear superiority in heavy arms and firepower. The ordnance on May 15 were as follows:
IDF Arabs
Tanks 1 w/o gun 40
Armored cars (w/ cannon) 2 200
Armored cars (w/o cannon) 120 300
Artillery 5 140
AA and AT guns 24 220
Warplanes 0 74
Scout planes 28 57
Navy (armed ships) 3 12
(Source: Yeuda Wallach, "Not on a silver plate")
Jordanian artillery shells Jerusalem in 1948.In fact, the Arab forces were inferior to the IDF. By mid-May 1948 the IDF was fielding 65,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. Of the Arab aircraft, only less than a dozen fighters and three to four bombers saw action, the rest were unserviceable. With only a dozen or so airplanes the IDF achieved air superiority by the fall of 1948. And the IDF had superiority in firepower and knowledgeable personnel, many of whom had seen action in WWII. Source: "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001", Benny Morris (2001), pp. 217-18.
Therefore, the first mission of the IDF was to hold on against the Arab armies and stop them from destroying major Jewish settlements, until reinforcements and weapons arrived.
General John Glubb commanded the Arab Legion (1939-1956)The heaviest fighting would occur in Jerusalem and on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road, between Transjordan's Arab Legion and the Israeli forces. Abdullah ordered Glubb Pasha, the commander of the Transjordanian Arab Legion, to enter Jerusalem on May 17, and heavy house-to-house fighting occurred between May 19 and May 28, with the Arab Legion succeeding in expelling Israeli forces from the Arab quarters of Jerusalem as well as the Jewish quarter of the old city. Iraqi troops failed in attacks on Jewish settlements (the most notable battle was on Mishmar Haemek), and instead took defensive positions around Jenin, Nablus, and Tulkarm.
In the north, the Syrian army was blocked in Kibbutz Dgania, where the settlers managed to stop the Syrian armored forces only with light weapons. One tank that was disabled by a Molotov cocktail is still presented at the Kibbutz. Later, an artillery bombardment, made by cannons jury-rigged from 19th century museum pieces, led to the withdrawal of the Syrians from the Kibbutz.
During the following months, the Syrian army was repelled, and so were the Palestinian irregulars and the ALA.
In the south, an Egyptian attack was able to penetrate the defenses of several Israeli kibbutzim, but with heavy cost. This attack was stopped near Ashdod.
The Israeli military managed not only to maintain their military control of the Jewish territories, but to expand their holdings.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...f_Independence
Your antii semitism is showing through. Your rightt Isreal attacked the 6 arab nations the day it was born trying to take over the middle east. Get real.Quote:
Oh you mean the massacre on civilians (ooops) I mean war of 1948.
Id Mexico started shelling the US with what you call totally obsolete artillery what do you think we would do? I guess old artillery doesnt kill people. Shelling another nation maybe seen as an act of war by some dont you think?Quote:
They did got shelled from the totally absolete artillery on the Gholan hights, well that is hardly war is it.
In the north, the Syrian army was blocked in Kibbutz Dgania, where the settlers managed to stop the Syrian armored forces only with light weapons. One tank that was disabled by a Molotov cocktail is still presented at the Kibbutz. Later, an artillery bombardment, made by cannons jury-rigged from 19th century museum pieces, led to the withdrawal of the Syrians from the Kibbutz.
Ya, very true indeed ~D
Are you trying to make a point? If so what?
Your antii semitism is showing through.
so?
Your rightt Isreal attacked the 6 arab nations the day it was born trying to take over the middle east. Get real.
Sounds about as far fetched as the alternative, especially with light armed settlers and molotov cocktails.
Maybe you better check your post. The settlers were jewish. Its they who were fighting tanks with molotov coctails and antiquated artillery not the arabs. Gah!!!!!!Quote:
Sounds about as far fetched as the alternative, especially with light armed settlers and molotov cocktails.
LOL - then you must be in denial about the facts of what happened. Several sources can by found that mention that Israel was attacked by the Arab league. Wikipedia is not always the best source of information - but it is generally been accepted on this forum by others as being somewhat accurate in its information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I don't often believe the details in Wikipedia - but it does often show the general information correctly.
Are you trying to deny that the Arab League invaded Israel in 1948?
They were? Oh damn back to school. So it were the settlers that fought back a coalition of 6 arab nations with light arms and molotov cocktails that ultimatily prevailed. Those arab nations that never made a step on Israeli soil, why do we need that JSF after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Yup, pretty much so. Could you show me on the map where they crossed the border?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
THen Fragony there is this one.
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/india/israel1948.htmQuote:
When Israel achieved its independence on May 14, 1948, the Haganah became the de facto Israeli army. On that day, the country was invaded by the regular forces of Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria. Eleven days later, Israel's provisional government issued an order that provided the legal framework for the country's armed forces. The order established the official name Zvah Haganah Le Yisrael and outlawed the existence of any other military force within Israel.
The dissident Irgun and Stern Gang were reluctant to disband. Fighting between Irgun and regular military forces broke out on June 21 when the supply ship Altalena arrived at Tel Aviv with 900 men and a load of arms and ammunition for the Irgun. The army sank the ship, destroying the arms, and many members of the Irgun were arrested; both organizations disbanded shortly thereafter. A more delicate problem was how to disband the Palmach, which had become an elite military unit within the Haganah and had strong political ties to the socialist-oriented kibbutzim. Nonetheless, David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister and minister of defense, was determined to see the IDF develop into a single, professional, and nonpolitical national armed force. It was only through his skill and determination that the Palmach was peacefully abolished and integrated into the IDF in January 1949.
The ranks of the IDF swelled rapidly to about 100,000 at the height of the War of Independence. Nearly all able-bodied men, plus many women, were recruited; thousands of foreign volunteers, mostly veterans of World War II, also came to the aid of Israel. The newly independent state rapidly mobilized to meet the Arab invaders; by July 1948, the Israelis had set up an air force, a navy, and a tank battalion. Weapons and ammunition were procured abroad, primarily from Czechoslovakia. Three B-17 bombers were bought in the United States through black market channels, and shortly after one of them bombed Cairo in July 1948, the Israelis were able to establish air supremacy. Subsequent victories came in rapid succession on all three fronts. The Arab states negotiated separate armistice agreements. Egypt was the first to sign (February 1949), followed by Lebanon (March), Transjordan (April), and finally Syria (July). Iraq simply withdrew its forces without signing an agreement. As a result of the war, Israel considerably expanded its territory beyond the United Nations (UN) partition plan for Palestine at the expense of its Arab neighbors. Victory cost more than 6,000 Israeli lives, however, which represented approximately 1 percent of the population. After the armistice, wartime recruits were rapidly demobilized, and the hastily raised IDF, still lacking a permanent institutional basis, experienced mass resignations from its war-weary officer corps. This process underscored the basic manpower problem of a small population faced with the need to mobilize a sizable army during a wartime emergency. In 1949, after study of the Swiss reservist system, Israel introduced a three-tiered system based on a small standing officer corps, universal conscription, and a large pool of well-trained reservists that could be rapidly mobilized.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ind...war_course.phpQuote:
From mid-May to mid-July, the critical phase of the war, came the simultaneous, coordinated assault on the new State of Israel by five regular Arab armies from neighboring countries. From the north, east and south came the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Egypt. The invading forces were fully equipped with the standard weapons of a regular army of the time - artillery, tanks, armored cars and personnel carriers, in addition to machine guns, mortars and the usual small arms in great quantities, and full supplies of ammunition, oil, and gasoline. Further, Egypt, Iraq, and Syria had air forces. As sovereign states, they had no difficulty in securing whatever armaments they needed through normal channels from Britain and other friendly powers. The pre-State Jewish forces, on the contrary, had been prevented from acquiring arms by the British and so had no matching artillery, no tanks, and no warplanes in the first days of the war.
You mean the land Israel declared as theirs, I am talking about the borders that were set by england when Israel became independant.
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/maps/invade.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100...ges/invade.jpg
Like I said his remarks take the cake as far revisionist history goes.
Close, except for the libanon one.
Huh? ~:confused:
Like I said the evidence is out there that shows adequately that the Arab League attacked Israel in 1948 - without warning and with the intent to destroy the new country of Israel. Are you still denying that historical fact?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
That northern part I have not seen before, I must admit to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
edit, looking at the map, and that part does not show.
Boy you are stubborn. So you still deny it or not? Next you wil be telling us the holocaust never happened. What was your point before? That you dont believe that the Israeis could beat the arabs with antiquated weapons? Your all over the place. First you claim the arabs used antiquated weapons then post an article that says the Israelis were using them ~:confused:
http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htmQuote:
January 1948 Arab Salvation Army (also called Arab Liberation Army - ALA) are admitted to Palestine by the British, following a promise not to attack Jewish settlements. Their leader, Fauzi Al-Kaukji may have entered Palestine only in March. Jewish Agency concludes arms deal with Czechoslovakia, but most arms do not arrive until June 1948, after the British have left. The UN, including the US, had placed an arms embargo on Palestine. This did not apply to Arab countries including Transjordan. As independent states, they were allowed to acquire arms. The Jordan Legion received a steady supply of arms from Britain through the Suez Canal, at least until May 1948. Hagana agents purchased 20 Auster light aircraft in Britain, sold for scrap, rebuilt them and brought them to Palestine for use of the Haganah. Haganah later rebuilt Spitfires left by the mandate for scrap as well, but did not have real fighter and bomber aircraft until May 1948 or, when Czech Messerschmidts and B-17s purchased clandestinely were brought into the country.
Feb. 1948 Anti-British riots in Baghdad against new British-Iraq treaty bring down pro-Brish government.
Mar. 1946 Provision Jewish government formed in Tel-Aviv. Convoy to Gush Etzion ambushed in Nebi Daniel. Arabs begin to flee Haifa.
April 6-8, 1948 Arab blockade of Jerusalem is broken temporarily by operation Nachshon. Death of Abd-El-Qader Al-Husseini at Kastel - The foremost Palestinian military leader is shot by a Jewish sentry when he wanders into Jewish held Kastel in the Jerusalem corridor thinking it is in Arab hands.
April 9, 1948 Deir Yassin Massacre - Jewish dissident underground groups - Irgun and Lehi kill over 100 Palestinian civilians in the Jerusalem village of Deir Yassin.
April 13, 1948 Haddassah Convoy Massacre - In retaliation for Deir Yassin, Arabs killed Jewish medical personnel and sick persons on their way to Hadassah hospital.
April 13-20, 1948 Operation Har'el launched by Hagannah at conclusion of Operation Nachshon, does not succeed in opening the road to Jerusalem.
April 1948 Arab flight from Haifa continues; Arab flight from Jaffa.
April 22-31 1948 Operation Misparayim launched by Hagannah to assume control of Haifa after British withdrawal and attacks by Arab forces and Irgun.
May 14, 1948 Gush Etzion Massacre - In retaliation for Deir Yassin Massacre, Arabs killed over 50 Jewish defenders at Gush Etzion, after they had surrendered.
May 12, 1948 Haganah captures Tsfat (Safed). Arab population flees the city before it is captured.
May 13, 1948 Jaffa surrenders to Haganah.
May 14, 1948 Gush Etzion Massacre - In retaliation for Deir Yassin Massacre, Arabs killed over 50 Jewish defenders at Gush Etzion, after they had surrendered. British High Commissioner Cunningham leaves Palestine.
May 15, 1948 Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State, recognized immediately by USA and on May 17 by USSR. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began
May 17, 1948 Haganah captures Acco (Acre). Most of the Arab population flees the city before it is captured.
May 18, 1948 Syrian army captures Massada and Merom Hagolan.
May 28, 1948 Jewish quarter of the old city of Jerusalem falls to the Jordan Legion. The inhabitants were protected from the wrath of a lynch mob by the Legion under Abdullah Tell, and noncombatants were expelled to West Jerusalem. About 300 Haganah defenders were taken prisoner and sent to Jordan. The entire quarter including 58 of the 59 synagogues was demolished by the Arab mob despite efforts of the Legion.
June 11, 1948 First truce begins, lasting until 8 July.
June 23, 1948 Irgun’s Altalena ship brings weapons and 940 immigrants to Palestine. The arms shipment was a violation of UN embargo, but Israel government agreed to it, provided the Irgun handed over the weapons to IDF and formed a unified force. Irgun Commander Menahem Begin refused to hand over weapons and Irgun insisted on keeping a portion of the arms for its own use as a separate force. Palmach units of IDF under Yigal Allon attempted to capture weapons by force, killing 14 Irgun men. Yizhak Rabin, in command of shore batteries in Tel-Aviv, was ordered to fire upon and sink the Altalena after it attempted a landing there. According to some reports, factions of the Irgun (Etzel) were planning a coup with the arms.
June, 28, 1948 Count Folke Bernadotte's first peace plan - Jerusalem to be Arab.
July 08, 1948 Egyptian army breaks truce, due to end July 9. Attacks from neighborhood of Majdal (Ashdod). Israeli counterattack at Faluja was unsuccessful. This phase of the war is known as "the ten days," and included Mivtza Dani - the Israeli conquest of Lydda (Lod) and Ramla, breaking the Arab siege of Jerusalem, and creating thousands of refugees, as well as advances in the north. During this time Israel had acquired three B-17s and some Dakotas. One of the B-17s succeeded in dropping some bombs on Cairo on its way to delivery in Israel, others bombed Damascus and Rafa.
July 10, 1948 Arab League announced the establishment of a temporary Palestinian civilian administration over Arab held-areas of Palestine, but it was never implemented.
July 12, 1948 Egyptians attack Kibbutz Negba with armor and massive troop concentrations. Israelis suffer 5 dead, 16 wounded, Egyptian casualties 200- 300 dead and wounded.
July 19, 1948 Second truce in Palestine.
Sept 17, 1948 Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a UN mediator, was assassinated in Jerusalem, and Lehi members were suspected. The Israel government outlawed the organization's branch in Jerusalem and shut down its publication, Hamivrak. The leaders of Lehi, Natan Yellin-Mor and Mattityahu Shmuelevitz, were sentenced to long jail terms by a military court, but were released in a general amnesty. Bernadotte, who had been instrumental in saving about 21,000 Jews in WW II, was proposing to "relieve" Israel of the Negev and force return of the Palestinian refugees. The latter proposal was adopted in UN General Assembly Resolution 194.
Sept 22, 1948 Palestinian States - AHC communiqué announces the establishment of the Government of All Palestine (APG; Hukumat 'Umum Filastin); Declaration of Independence proclaimed by Hajj Amin to Palestine National Council in Gaza (30Sept-1Oct) on 1Oct, with Hajj Amin as President of the PNC, Ahmad Hilmi ‘Abd al-Baqi as PM, Jamal al-Husayni as Foreign Minister, in the Mandate territory of Palestine, with the flag of the 1916 Arab Revolt. Jerusalem as capital, Gaza as seat of government. Recognized and sponsored by Egypt and Arab League, who sought to forestall ‘Abdullah’s plan to annex West Bank; strongly opposed by Jordan, who organized a much larger rival Palestinian Congress in Amman on 30Sept to support Jordan’s policy in Palestine. APG issued Palestinian passports; but with Egyptian disillusionment, HQ transferred to Cairo in Oct, Hajj Amin was confined to Cairo and is & actions curtailed; many leading members left to work for Amman. Ahmad Hilmi continued to represent Palestine in the League until his death in September 63.
Oct. 15, 1948 Second truce ends; Israeli offensive breaks Egyptian siege of Israeli settlements in the Negev (operation Yoav). Beersheva is taken. In the north, operation Hiram defeats the Arab Liberation army. IDF massacres in Eilabun, Saliba, Safsaf, Jish, Hule, Majd el-Krum, Bi'na, Dier el assad and Arab al-Mawassa.
Dec. 11, 1948 UN Resolution 194 called for cessation of hostilities, return of refugees who wish to live in peace. The resolution reflected UN and US anger over the assassination of Count Bernadotte.
Dec. 1948 Israelis advance into Egypt; Nokrashy Pasha, Egyptian PM, assassinated.
Dec 19, 1948- Jan 7, 49 Israeli Operation Horev conquers Gaza and enters Sinai. Intervention by British and US forces Israel to withdraw. Israel shot down several British reconnaissance planes, apparently unarmed (four Spitfires and one Tempest) January 7, 1949.
March 7-10, 1949 Operation Uvda - IDF captures southern Negev including Eilat with no resistance.
Feb-Jun, 1949 Israel and Arab states agree to armistice in separate agreements. Israel-Egypt Israel -Lebanon Israel-Jordan Israel-Syria) Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the UN Partition Plan. The war created about 780,000 Palestinian refugees who fled or were evicted from Jewish held areas. Gaza fell under the jurisdiction of Egypt. The West Bank of the Jordan was occupied by Jordan and later annexed, consistent with secret agreements with the Jewish leadership made before the outbreak of hostilities.
Edit: I highlighted a few choice items for the discussion - to include to show that both sides committed actions that would be considered war crimes
Unsure, The north of the map is new to me. I'll just admit wrong for now, I'll look into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Well it seems were making slight proggress at least here. ~:)
Try this out for size
Quote:
The Peace Encyclopedia:
The War of Independence, 1948
Frequently Asked Questions:
* What was Israel's War of Independence? Independence from whom?
* Weren't both sides responsible for that war?
* How did so many Arabs become refugees?
* How many Arabs fled?
* What right did Israel have to declare itself a state anyway?
* Why did Israel take territories which were designated to become part of a Palestinian Arab state?
* We hear alot about the Arab refugees of that war - were there any Jewish refugees? Why don't we hear about them?
* What is the relationship between Naziism and the Arab attitude toward Israel?
What was Israel's War of Independence? Independence from whom?
* On May 14, 1948, against all the odds, the modern state of Israel was reborn. At four o'clock that afternoon the members of the provisional national council, led by David Ben-Gurion, met in the Tel Aviv Art Museum. Ben-Gurion rose and read the following proclamation to the assembled guests:
The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here there spiritual, religious and national identity was formed. Here they achieved independence and created a culture of national and universal significance. Here they wrote and gave the Bible to the world.
Exiled from Palestine, the Jewish people remained, faithful to it in all countries of their dispersion, never ceasing to pray and hope for their return and the restoration of their national freedom. . .
Accordingly we, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world, met together in solemn assemble today, the day of the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine, by virtue of the natural and historic right of the Jewish people and the Resolution of the General Assembly of the United Nations, hereby proclaim the establishment of the Jewish state in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL . . .
With trust in Almighty God, we set out hand to this declaration, at this session of the Provisional State Council, in the city of Tel Aviv, on this Sabbath eve, the fifth year of Iyar, 5708, the fourteenth day of May, 1948.
* The key to this question is reflected In the behavior Of the British In 1947. When, in that year, the Arabs rejected the partition of Palestine and refused to set up the projected Arab state, the British administration, then still governing Palestine under the Mandate, refused to carry out the recommendations of the United Nations to implement the partition plan. The British government made it plain that it would do all in its power to prevent the birth of the Jewish state. Britain announced that she would not -- and indeed, she did not -- carry out the orderly transfer of any functions to the Jewish authorities in the Interim before the end of the Mandate on May 15, 1948. Everything was left In a state of disorder. This was Britain's first contribution to the burden of the nascent state.
When, immediately after the United Nations Assembly decision, the Palestine Arabs launched their preliminary onslaught on the Jewish community, the Britlsh Army gave them considerable cover and aid. It obstructed Jewish defense on the ground; it blocked the movement of Jewish reinforcements and supplies to outlying settlements; it opened the land frontiers for the entry of Arab soldiers from the neighboring Arab states; it maintained a blockade in the Mediterranean and sealed the coast and ports through which alone the outnumbered Jews could expect reinforcements; it handed over arms dumps to the Arabs. When Jaffa was on the point of falling to a Jewish counterattack, it sent in forces from Malta to bomb and shell the Jewish force. Meanwhile, it continued to supply the Arab states preparing to invade across the borders with all the they asked for and made no secret of it.
- Samuel Katz, Battleground: Fact and fantasy in Palestine
* In 1948, after the UN voted to give Israel statehood, Jordan and 6 other Arab countries invaded the reborn Jewish homeland, despite the fact that those Arab states were not directly affected by Israel's rebirth. The stated purpose of this invasion was to "push the Jews into the sea", i.e. genocide. What Hitler didn't finish three years earlier, the Arabs would finish once and for all. This is not mere speculation; the Arabs of the former British Mandate of Palestine were led by a Nazi collaborator, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who was up for charges at Nuremberg before escaping in 1946. Entire books have been written on how al-Husseini actively supported Hitler's aim to exterminate the Jews in WWII.
The Jews were able to secure weapons from one country only: Czechoslovakia. And through one of the greatest miracles of modern times, and a testimony to the will to survive, tiny Israel was not only able to survive intact - she was also able to capture territory from which the Arab aggressors attacked; this is the penalty for waging war (and losing), and it always has been. Unfortunately, both Jordan and Egypt were able to expand their territories; Jordan captured what is now refered to as the "West Bank" (their original Jewish names are Judea and Samaria) including the Jewish eastern half of Jerusalem (now known as "Arab East Jerusalem"), and Egypt captured what is now known as the Gaza Strip - both countries murdered and expelled EVERY Jew who was living there at the time. During the 19 years that Jordan and Egypt occupied those territories (now know collectively as the "Occupied Territories"), neither country thought to create independent states for the remaining Arabs (now known collectively as the "Palestinians") residing in those territories. Instead, those regions were plundered and allowed to rot; Jewish graves were desecrated and the gravestones were used to pave roads and build latrines, the Jewish homes were given to Arabs and mezzuzahs in the doorposts were either ripped out or just painted over (evidence of such can be found even today in "Arab East Jerusalem").
Another Antisemitic reprocussion of Israel's rebirth was that most of the Arab Muslim countries of the Middle East expelled EVERY single Jew living there and confiscated all their assets. Most of these Jewish refugees went to Israel, and in just a few years doubled Israel's population. Incidentally, the number of Jewish refugees and their posessions greatly outnumbers any claims by Arab refugees of the 1948 war. The next great miracle was the speed in which the primarily Ashkenazi Jews of Israel absorbed an equal number of their Arabic-speaking bretheren into society. By comparison, displaced Arabs were forced into refugee camps by their Arab bretheren and most remained there throughout the 19 years of Arab occupation. And contrary to popular belief, there was not a policy of expulsion of Arabs from Israel; if so it was not very successful, as 14% (and climbing) of Israels citizens are Arabs.
Weren't both sides responsible for that war?
* "We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the building-up of the state on the basis of full and equal citizenship and representation in all its ... institutions.
"We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and goodwill, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land."
- David Ben-Gurion in Israel's Proclamation of Independence, May 14, 1948
* How did protracted warfare first arise between Israel and the Arabs?. Not even militant Arab leaders or anti-Zionist historians could conceivably accept the view that the 1948-49 conflict was a war of Jewish origin. On February 16, 1948, the UN Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." The Arabs themselves were unambiguous in accepting responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini informed the Security Council on April 16, 1948: "The representatives of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight." As for the British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb, he remarked candidly: "Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman....They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine." Israel came into being on May 14, 1948. The five Arab armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq immediately invaded the new microstate. Their combined intention was expressed publicly by Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."
- Louis Rene Beres
Professor of International Law
Department of Political Science
Purdue University
* Damascus radio called on all Arabs to "undertake the liberation battle that will tear the hearts from the bodies of the hatefull jews and trample them in the dust" - quoted in TIME, June 2, p. 20
* "the surviving Jews would be helped to return to their native countries, but my estimation is that none will survive"
- Ahmed Shuqeiri (later to be PLO chief) quoted in Churchill and Churchill, p. 52
* "We were racists, admiring Nazism, reading its books and the source of its thought... Whoever lived during this period in Damascus would appreciate the inclination of the Arab people to Nazism, for Nazism was the power which could serve as its champion, and who is defeated will by nature love the victor".
- Sami al Jundi, leader of Syrian Baath party, "Al Baath" Beirut, 1961. From B. Lewis, "Semites and Anti-Semites" pp.147-148.
* "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacare which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacares and the crusades"
Arab Leugue Secretary General Azam Pasha, May 15, 1948 (quoted in "New Dimensions" Jan. '91).
How did so many Arabs become refugees?
* See Refugees
How many Arabs fled?
* See Refugees
What right did Israel have to declare itself a state anyway?
* See Zionism
Why did Israel take territories which were designated to become part of a Palestinian Arab state?
* See Palestine
We hear alot about the Arab refugees of that war - were there any Jewish refugees? Why don't we hear about them?
* See Refugees
Me wrong you right.
Too much with my head in 1968.
Not trying to change your politicial opinion about the Israeli-Palenstine conflict - since I think both sides are equally at fault. However I do at least try to keep myself informed of historical facts - and as you can see I use multiple sources to demonstrate those facts. Every site both Arab baised and Israeli baised that I have ever visited, every book I have ever read on the subject - all point out that in 1948 the Arab League invaded Israel in an attempt to destroy the state of Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Edit: Yes the 1967-1968 war is slightly different - and is the root of the problem concerning the occupied areas.
No need to be polite, I got my facts screwed up. Mixing up 2 conflicts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg