Ah, my mistake then. Sorry P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
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Ah, my mistake then. Sorry P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
Read your homework better. Sweden havn't been in war for the last 191 years so why would we use war-time laws? Pwned ~D ~;)Quote:
I do not speak Swedish so my sources for what goes on in that country are rather limited. What I suspect is that the Swedes simply call murder something else. And considering that the death penalty was abolished in Sweden in 1972 I am not sure what your point is? The conditions you take credit existed before the death penalty ended?
Sweden abolished death penalty during peace time in 1921 and the last execution was 1910.
We got murder, 2:degree murder (manslaughter? unplanned murder) and causing another person's death (like drunk driving). I assume it's the same as all other western countries.
Are you implying that we simply call it something else only to keep some good stats that very few actually care about...?
What I'm saying is that convicted murderers havn't committed murder after thier release. Thus executing them wouldn't change a thing.Quote:
And the reason I did not bother to answer is that it was obvious that what you were saying was not correct and that the thread has run it's course.
So you come dragging here with the worst cases in recent time here, as proof that I'm lying? Two of the cases got shot penalties due to the low age of the perpetrators (and you can complain about that), but thier relevance here is questionable. Mijailovic got life, so it's not a proof that we don't use life sentance.
They aren't proving anything about what these criminal will when they get out and that is the issue as death penalty does nothing to deterrant crimes, and they don't even mention a previous criminal record for two cases.
Unless you either got psychics a la Minority Report, or suggesting death penalty (or permanent life in prison) in a preventine pupose (and even on this point those articles gives very little to nothing to stand on) this articles' relevence to the issue is zero, none, nada, noll, null. :bow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
If I gave the impression that I thought you were lying then it was a false one. I thought you were mistaken that is all. Whether or not murderers have or have not committed murder after their release remains unknown as you have provided nothing to back up your claim.
I went to the site on criminal statistics for Sweden and they seemed to provide everything but the Recidivism. Maybe that's for Swedes only.
I found a brief mention about a paper that found repeat killing in 1.8% of all murder cases in Sweden during 1975-1979. Unfortunately they wanted me to pony up some cash for it and I wasn't that interested in proving you wrong.
The number of reported cases of rape doubled between 1975 and 2001 in Sweden.
The number of reported cases of violent assault tripled from 24,000 to 70,000 cases in 2001.
This is something I ran across and most of the figures for Sweden seem to be accurate. I haven't checked out the New York figures extensively but they also seem accurate.
In absolute figures the crime rates in New York (with its 8.1 million people) and Sweden (with its 8.9 million) for 2003 speaks for itself: New York had 598 murders (Sweden 189); New York 1,875 rapes (Sweden 2,565); New York 18,764 assaults (Sweden 65,177); New York 29,207 burglaries (Sweden 122,700).
All crimes but murder are lower in New York. What about the claim that Sweden is the safest place in the world - it sure has some major cracks in its façade?
Doesn't really look like paradise to me!
Of those in Sweden who during the period 1973-89 were convicted of murder or manslaughter, 25% relapsed into new crimes within three years after a sentencing, and of those who during the same time period where convicted of assault or severe assault 45% relapsed into new crimes within three years after a sentencing (according to The National Council for Crime Prevention-report, 1994). Of these who were convicted of e.g. murder the most were imprisoned during this three-year period the survey covered. It would of course have been a higher percentage if the survey would have covered 3 years after release. And yet higher if the survey would have covered 6 years after release, or 9 years, or 12 years, or 15 years ...
In three other researches by the National Swedish Prisons and Probation Administration it has been revealed that ca. 38 % of felons relapsed into new crimes after release. The National Swedish Prisons and Probation Administration - report Återfall och långtidsdömda, 1999. And the report Åter avsändaren, 1999, and the report Uppföljningsperiod 1994-1999.
When it comes to the alternative of custody a Swedish survey made by the Karolinska Institutet showed that 70% of the patients within the forensic psychiatry had committed new crimes within five years. 40% of them had relapsed into severe crime. DN 99-09-29. Another survey (SVD 99-0103) showed that out of 222 criminals who were sentenced to custody and who were released in 1996 42% committed new crimes, a total of 337 crimes. And sometimes even very heinous violent crimes.
And for comparison
In the USA a large survey showed that of the murderers and killers who were released in 1983 43% were rearrested within three years. Of these 26% were reconvicted. Of abusers 60% were rearrested after their release, and 40% were reconvicted. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Special Report 1989, Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1983. On page 6 they write: "Released prisoners were often rearrested for the same type of crime for which they had served time in prison …Thus, released murderers were more likely than other prisoners to be rearrested for a new homicide."
Gah!!
I cannot find any good sources so I've have to use logic instead.
Yes both Krå and Brå got thier info only in Swedish it seems.Quote:
I went to the site on criminal statistics for Sweden and they seemed to provide everything but the Recidivism. Maybe that's for Swedes only.
Can be correct, not all people that have comitted murder gets life in Sweden, but executing all murderers would make execution a quite common punishment.Quote:
I found a brief mention about a paper that found repeat killing in 1.8% of all murder cases in Sweden during 1975-1979. Unfortunately they wanted me to pony up some cash for it and I wasn't that interested in proving you wrong.
To the issue. Don't you think mr David Anderson (who is the source of your second quote ~;) ) would have loved a Swedish case? Why don't he use one?
To my source it's here on Swedish.
Livstidsstraff eller inte
It's sadly only a debate article, but it is the type were a lot of the validation would disappear if he was proven wrong on that point.