I belive Sat was getting at the fact that it can be read as being afraid of nothing-as in, being frightened by nothingness.Quote:
LOL, what the hell? If you are afraid of nothing, you have no sense of fear.
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I belive Sat was getting at the fact that it can be read as being afraid of nothing-as in, being frightened by nothingness.Quote:
LOL, what the hell? If you are afraid of nothing, you have no sense of fear.
were is the "sleeping till noon on weekeends" option?...
i´m sure a lot would go for that one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Actually I read a book on the many expiremts and such done through the ages on human cadavers and some are being preserved to let future generations know exactly what we look like. They are covered in a plastic like material when wearing nothing but a natural pose. Many are also used for the Gross Anatomy Lab as you said, but some are used to find the tolerance of the human body to allow car manufacturers and testers to understand what would happen to a body in a crash. Others are also used for practice dummies by practicing doctors.
Also somebody mentioned that they were Gnostic, did you mean Agnostic? The Gnostics were to the best of my knowledge an early Christian sect that was wiped out for being against priests and all of that structured religion.
Well I am not afraid of what death will bring. As this quote illustrates: "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own." C.S. Lewis. When I die I will likely not know it and therefore have no time to worry, up to the last moment I will probably cling to life and believe I have some miniscule chance. If not why worry? It will merely be the end of my stroy, the world will continue to spin. My brain will just cease to function and I will continue on to nothing. This does not mean I welcome death, but when it comes I am ready.
That is mainly a straw man. Most atheists do not believe in the non-existence of a supreme being. They just accept a nul-hypothesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Malcolm
True many think it is most likely that there is no God, but some, like me, do believe that there is none. Though I cannot say that I know there is none.
Without religion, people don't really have a purpose in life, and that's a sad thing. Also, comeon, soul does exist. Ancients and all cultures in history believed in spirit or soul in some sort. Phenomena that happens about dreams and soul and all sorts of things are not all false. It doesn't always relate to human brain malfunction or something like that you know. ~:cool:
I think therefore I am.
Many people have a purpose outside of religion.
Are you saying that because I am an Atheist I have no purpose in life? Not true sah! I have plenty of purpose, though I will die and it could all be for naught I will still try to make the world a bit better, to help some people. I will also try to have a good life. Isn't that purpose enough? To try to have a good, productive life?
Besides if I can make the world a bit better, even if it is just a smidgeon (though I hope it is more than that) better haven't I served my purpose?
Religion is not as powerful as you may think and is not essential as you seem to think.
I think I have a better purpose than religion could ever give me because I have chosen my purpose in life, I have not allowed the beliefs of other people, let me clarify: other dead people tell me what my purpose is.
Just because nearly everyone thinks something exists does not mean it exists. IMHO there is no soul, all that we are is in our body and none of it is non-corporeal. This does not mean that some people are not bad people or whatnot it just means that all we are is here.
Also dreams are merely your subconscious taking over for a time and you actually remembering. They are fickle and really show us nothing because though they can show what you really want they are only a reflection of what you think and have no real bearing on the outside world. Everything we think, feel and experience we experience through our brain. Nothing that we experience is not related to our brain.
Religion as a utility to give lives meaning:
When looking at religion, I see a thousand different religions, each with a different meaning. Any human who accepts one religion therefore has discounted several thousand others, each which also offer a reason to be. In such a circumstance, I tend to believe the meaning is not intrinsic to religion at all, but rather something humans manufacture.
Souls:
A soul is nothing more then a word for the pattern and process of our minds.
Religion is a utility to give men power over others,
Its a way to make people do what You want them to,
Its always been the same,
Most of the time the message is
GOD SAYS THIS SO DO IT OR YOU GO TO HELL!!
Just like the fact that christian parents say If you behave all year round santa will bring you presents,
Religion states if you behave all your life you will get To go to heven
Now we all know santa does not exist,
But I guess i cannot Say for shure that god doesnot exist,
But to me
The storys are So similar its Almost obvious That they are just storys to keep people under controll.
So i say there is no god
Now I am an atheistQuote:
Originally Posted by Phatose
But I say this,
If you could make a chip that acts just like a human brain,
Then you constantly uploaded your mind in to it. "updating the chip whith your mind every 30 seconds"
Then when you died,
And allowed it to be placed in to a robot,
The robots thought process and mentalaty would be Exactly the same as yours,
But Would it be you?
No Which implies that the "soul" is not mearly your thought process
Beautiful analogy Shambles. God=Santa. :laugh:
If the robot was a clone of yourself would it have no soul?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shambles
If you really think about it,Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Any clone of your self no matter how exact cannot be you,
Even if you are gone The coppy is still not going to be you,
So theres something missing from the clone,
This missing piece could be described as your soul.
Can I measue the energy difference in a clone without a soul and the orginal?
Now i never said the clone would have no soul,
Its just that the clone would not be you
Which implies his/her soul is difrent.
Where as the robot would have no soul at all,
A soul could also be described as in star wars As the Life force,
Or in the case of budism chi.
It's impossible to completely get all information onto a computer. Your being IS your brain. It cannot be replaced or dublicated.
If this somehow is surpassed then if you copied your brain completely, it wouldn't be you, it would be a bunch of useless information about what you would be like. Sort of like a mirror image. If you made an exact copy of yourself it wouldn't be you, it would someone else that is exactly like you. Remember we are made out flesh. I think biology is the way of immortality.
Heh, I just realized that. I always thought like Shambles about this and I just had a moment of clarity. What do you know? ~:handball:
A clone is really just a twin afterall.
Why can't robots have souls?
I supose A robot could have a soul,
But would that then make his ceator a god?
And would his creator have the power over everything.
And Would he also be able to make a heven to go to when the robots batterys ran out?
I do not think so.
Which is also a reason as to why i do not beleve in heven and hell.
But again there are many things we cannot fathom in this life.
Why would its creator be a god.
I'm about to be a parent, I don't think I am a god... my wife is a goddess on the other hand ~D
So Who ever or what ever created Man would not be a god either?
Thats fine by me,
Becous i have cultivated bactiria and watched it grow Just with water and Light,
But you dont even need light,
Heat is enough,
This would imply the old religions that worshiped the sun and the earth would be more acurate that the modern christian ideas of a single being with power over all.
But to me religion is just mans way to keep people in line.
It would certainly claim to be me. If placed in an adequated disguised body, people would claim it was me. Why wouldn't it be me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shambles
And more to the point....
How am I to know that this didn't already happen?
Moreover, imagine this scenario. You are fine, mostly, but one day scientist discover a single neuron in your head is malfunctioning. It's going to misfire and eventually kill you. But lucky you. They can replace it with a synthetic neuron. Since death seems rather unpleasant, you undergo the procedure.
But later, other neurons go bad. One by one, each neuron in your head starts going bad, and one by one they get replaced. By the end, every neuron in your head has gone bad, and every single one has been replaced by an artifical equivalent.
I ask you....where does YOU end and the robotic clone you begin?
Think obout it as your going to sleep,
Imagine it happening,
And then Really think IS the clone going to be you?
To otheres it may look sound and feel like you,
But you know,
That You are you,
So It's not you,
And i cannot tell you when you will stop being you and become a copy,
Its your soul,
You know who You are,
And any thing that difers from you is taking away from your own being.
Because we could weigh your soul and the difference would point out the imposter from the real you.
Then we would disintergrate the clone version.
Of course we might just accidentally kill the real you if you are dieting and your clone is stuffing his face with twinkies but hey that is the price of human xeroxing. ~:eek:
And the clone knows it is me as well. Who is accurate? Me because I'm biological? If it can copy me perfectly - then it's certainly got as much claim to being me as I do, and in fact, we're both me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shambles
But the origional Knows the truth,Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatose
and the clone is a synthetic copy who just THINks he knows he is you,
so if you died,
you would be no more,
But the clone lived,
You would have no knowlage of this as you were dead,
So you u are not the clone
and there fore the clone is not you
SO if you are no more and the clone exists.
he is most definatly not You Becous You are dead,
Something differs.
An no matter How precise you make the clone or what the clone Thinks,
Or who has a claim as to who is who,
You are both seperate beings,
And when 1 dies the other may not,
So you are not the same.
And that means that something is not the same.
Which is what i am saying
EDIT.
Imagine the clone then Murders you,
Would You still exist?
Of cours not,
It would be a clone of you who just acts like you and may be able to fool others in to thinking he is you,
But Something would differ in a fundimental level That means he could not actualy EVER Really be you,
And this imply's people have souls.
(still does not mean that the soul does not die when the body does though)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shambles
Of course, there is one very very large problem with your protest.
Where do I end, and the rest of the universe begins?
Consider: I have a pattern and a process. The process, in my case, is the laws of physics. But what of the pattern?
The pattern, of course, includes a location. This clone of yours cannot have the same position as "me" - the laws of physics prevent that. Which means, each of our patterns have different locations.
The laws of physics hold position as important. My brain and the clones brain will recieve different input. Gravity will affect our brains differently, different light will reach us. Different sounds, different EM interference.
This 'we' is really two of us, because despite your best attempts, you cannot make a second truly identical pattern, thus avoiding the question entirely.
one need not invent a soul to understand how a clone and an 'original' are not the same person. fundamental to the concept of a person is the concept of self. the concept of self, in turn, is founded upon perception and memory. the reason a clone is not the same person as an original is because the clone is not the same self as the original.
the clone will have different perceptions (and therefor memories) by simple virtue of being confined to a different body. even assuming that a clone's mind will be identical in structure and function, the clones perspective/perceptions/memories are necessarily different because the clone occupies a different physical space that the original.
The mind is not just simply sh!t you know. It's more then that. It's also your sense of self which cannot be dublicated because it's hadrcoded(funny RTW reference ~;)).
If you were only the information you memrized you would be just as useless as a computer without a human telling it what to do.
I don't think there is a soul per se, I think it's all organic. IF the soul lived forever wouldn't that be awful boring, for ever and ever and ever. You'd go insane. :dizzy2:
No matter what you say or do,
Even if you could defy the laws of physics gravaty and all the rest of the equasion you are trying to put forth to make your stance more acceptable,
No clone will ever be you
Its all about sence of self.
Both you and the clone can have the same sence of self,
But You would never be the same,
No matter how intrecate you made the clone how precice,
Even if you placed him in a parallel dimention so he could stand in the same spot in a difrent plane and do exactly what you do as you do it,
you would both still be seperate beings,
which as i have said implies that people have a soul,
And i also said, This does not mean that the soul lives for ever
"i am using the term soul loosley here, And not in any conventional way, The soul could loosley be described as a sence of self But the clone would also have that same sence of self, So seeing as the clone is not you then it cant really only be the sence of self that is described as your soul"