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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
You may remember the incident when American pilots were told by their own commander not to fire on some infantry they spotted; the pilots fired anyway, killing four Canadians, and then got away with a slap on the wrist.
What the hell? 'Got away'? Friendly Fire isn't something you 'get away' with. For Christ's Sake, it's like 'getting away' with running your car into a pet animal. It sucks for everyone involved and it was never intended.
You make it sound as if the pilots were high fiving afterwards, cackling to themselves, "Hah! We'll simply tell those Canadians fools we didn't mean it! They'll buy it hook line and sinker and then we walk! Mwaha"
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
As somebody pointed out, Israel sat there and took SCUD after SCUD without retaliaiting. Who else would do that? Egypt? Turkey? They constantly defame us, refuse to offer aid, and in the case of Turkey, cost us several billion dollars and the use of a division by bending over for France at the last second. Turkey is no US ally, believe me.
When you come right down to it, the US can count on, in this order, the UK, Australia, and Israel. Canada, Poland, Czech Republic & Italy are good friends and about 85% reliable. That's it for allies for us. Everybody else... Germany, France, Turkey... well, on Sept 12th "Aaah, yes, we feel your pain. We will not stand for this". On Sept 14th "You're not actually going to DO anything about it are you? Don't be mad!"
That's not the entire story.
Many nations and people had no problem with the United States pounding the terrorist networks into dust. I myself was hoping for exactly that, thinking that finally someone was going to do what needed doing for so long.
And then we watched as you started preparation for war with Iraq and we wondered what was going on. It seemed rather opportunistic on the part of the Bush Presidency to use the 911 attack as a reason to settle old scores that had only a loose connection to terrorism. Iraq was far from a large or significant terrorist supporter. In fact they seemed to have had only a little to do with it at the worst.
So the attack on the terrorist networks in Afghanistan got almost universal support from your real allies. The attack in Iraq did not because we could not see any real connection in that case. A HUGE amount of sympathy and support was wasted by the American demands in regard to Iraq. When later it was revealed that much of what was used as evidence for the connections turned out to faked or intelligence misjudgements much of the remaining sympathy evaporated.
Putting Rumsfeld in charge of American diplomacy was also a rather amateurish blunder and he all by himself probably helped to lose support from several countries.
The United States at the same time as proceeding in their anti-terrorist efforts asked the Isreali's to negotiate with known terrorists like the PLO did not help their case. The Chechens, the PLO, the IRA, etc are the ones that should have been targeted and instead we got the Iraqi mess.
This is what your real allies like Canada, France, Germany and Turkey were telling you. We ALL would have stood by you if you had ever actually attacked terrorists!
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Yet I can count on one hand the number of countries that have done what we've asked, when we've asked, the way we've asked, and the PRML ain't one of them, and Ireland sure as shit ain't. Ireland wouldn't even prevent Nazi U-boats from floating around off their coast.
Well maybe you should read some more Don . Believe it or not Ireland made it onto the list of the "coilition of the willing" or more accurately "the coilition of the whores who could be bought" and Bertie Ahern was a very cheap whore , even though it was in breach of the constitution and against the will of the population .
If you want to talk about U-boats then perhaps examine the air corridor that was used during the Battle of the Atlantic , it was quite a concession from that "dumb yank" who had a deep rooted hatred for Britain and all it stood for , and who had plunged the country into civil war over , amongnst other things , the retention of naval facilities by Britain .
You make it sound as if the pilots were high fiving afterwards,
Prole , wasn't that the case where they were not high fiving it , but they were "high" .
You know as well as I do that its because we wouldnt give them the money they demanded.
That says it all Gawain , some people agree with you because you pay them to agree with you , thats real democracy in action . ~D ~D ~D and I thought you were concerned about what your government does with your tax dollars ~;)
Too many Yes far to many , Qatar , UAE , Cyprus , Macedonia , Bosnia , Saudi Arabia , Crete/Greece , Kuwait , Iraq( ~;) ) , Diego Garcia . then onto Georgia , Kyrgystan , Uzbekistan . then you have the new ones , Chad , Niger , Mali , Mauritania , Morocco ..... do you want to go on ???
how about Yemen , Oman and Bahrain do their facilities that have been used count.....Its funny though Pakistan isn't in there at all , I thought that was a great ally , but of course great allies don't have terrorist training camps 20 miles outside the capital where they train people who went to try and kill your ambassador in Afghanistan last week do they , and they certainly don't get their Army to shoot at US patrols hunting for Al-Qaida along the border do they , maybe you should offer them some more money to get them to stop . ~D ~D ~D
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Well I was going to correct the grammar in your post but given the bold qualities used in the word "now", maybe I should just let it pass. :lipsrsealed2:
Anyhoo...
The US has military bases all over the area, as well as carriers and other assets that can be utilized. During the first Iraq war, Israel was, if anything, more of an impediment than an asset. The US had to constantly keep them under control and then divert resources to protect them. In the second Iraq war, I'm not sure what benefit Israel provided at all. Perhaps someone here could enlighten me.
Israel is utterly replaceable, and there is no question concerning who is in charge in this relationship and who benefits the most. The US pays and Israel plays.
With the billions and billions and billions (and billions and billions...) the US has handed over to Israel, the US could have built an aircraft carrier the size of Long Island and parked it right in the middle of the Persian Gulf. In the long run, that might have been a much better idea.
It is a complete farce that the UN allowed Israel to be created in the middle of an inherently hostile area and then for the past fifty years the US has had to foot the bill (in the many tens of billions of dollars) and the political fallout (including the hatred of everyone in the region) in order to finance and protect them.
The US shot itself in the foot (several times) by playing Israel's game. People talk about democracy, which is all fine and dandy, but what advantage, at least in the Machiavellian sense, does Israel's (apartheid) democracy hold for the US? If power is the be all end all of foreign relations, which it is, it would seem that it is clearly Israel who is benefiting more and it is the US who is paying the price for it. Odd. I just don't see the advantage for the US in this "relationship".
"it is a complete farce that the un (sorry that is UN) allowed israel to be created in the middle of ..."
well (Well) in the name of the jewish people i thank you beirut (Beirut) to let us exists ~:cheers:
i (I) thank the canadian people who fought for us in 1948 against 7 arab states and established our jewish empire
i (I) thank the usa (USA) for its war against sadam in 1991 that saved us from iraqi occupation (ah sorry the war was in kuwait for some oil gallons)
i (I) thank you again dear beirut for showing us again (in 2005 ce) that a small nation that have a big empire (1/26 of the size of Texas) could create such a hatred as if we are in 1930' germany , you know the nazis also did not understood how the jews control everything
another (Another) thing - please don't analyse us , we are 12,000,000 individuals and our enemies did it for 2,000 years now
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Nice way to take a quote out of context there...
So you think the US should be footing the bill so you can exist? I'm not from the US and I find that idea repulsive. I would hate to think how someone from the US themselves would feel about it.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
where have you seen this ? usa is giving money to dozens of countries so why just attacking israel ? did israel could not exists with out the 3 billions$ ?
did israel ever put a gun on the heads of the us presidents to give her money ?
where is the argument ? if the us wont give israel some money (0.00001 of its budget) what do you think is going to happened ? nothing !!!!!!!!!
to blame he who receives money ? to blame he who gives money ?
what is the point ? let the americans to decide what they want to do with their money
the usa is not going to fight for israel and israel like any other nation don't expect her to do that so again all the pleas should go to the capitol and not to sharon peres or shmeres
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Too many. Your the one who says there are so many in the middle east. Once more name them.
In 2001 and the middle east.
Pakistan
Uzbekistan
Tajikistan
Afghanistan
Kyrgyzstan
Oman
Saudi-Arabia
Kuwait
Quatar
Bahrain
Egypt
Turkey
We can add Iraq to that list now.
No Israel BTW.
Link
Happy now?
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
But we do patrol your coasts, maintain an early warning system and keep a division in Alaska. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
Preparations for invasion! Gah! ~:eek:
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Originally Posted by Don Corleone
But, Iraq aside, there's times you guys haven't stood with us when we could have used it.
Likewise, I'm sure. ~;)
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Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Mulrooney left us hanging in the breeze a few times...
Better hanging in the breeze than what he did to us. That guy was the worst of the worst of political scum and he robbed us blind for eight years. Except for perhaps several of our more notorious serial killers, Mulroney will go down in history as the most hated man in our country's existence.
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Originally Posted by Don Corleone
...but honestly, if the Danes started launching missile attacks out of Greenland, and we asked you to sit tight and take it for a bit, do you really think you would have?
Well, we did accept all the flights heading towards the US and let them land here the day of 9/11. God knows at the time we thought one or two might be flying bombs. I'm not fishing for a national thank you, just saying that we truly were prepared to take one on the chin for you.
Also, concerning Israel's desire to strike Iraq and their agreement not to, it's not like they knew where they going, they would have had to search a vast area that was already full of US aircraft and Allied special forces looking for the Scuds. They would have ended up tooling around like everyone else and the coalition would have dissolved and Israel would have been in more danger as their would have been less military assets and international cohesion intact to defeat Iraq and their Scuds. And Israel was paid off in cash and weapons for their patience as well as far I know. Although I completely agree Israel showed great patience to sit back and take it, there is little evidence their involvement, short of nuking Iraq, would have made any difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
One good example of how deep our relationship goes is it was Canada patrolling some of our domestic airspace when we launched the first strikes against Afghanistan and had to send some domestically based wings overseas. I apologize. :bow:
Those were our preparations for invasion. :wink3:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
it is a complete farce
Ceasar , how would you describe the creation of the State of Israel as anything other than a farce ?
Ironside
Happy now?
Shhhhh ... I think he may have difficulty with counting , don't rub it in ~;)
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
what ? i really really really don't have the ability to understand such a complexed argument
i let it to be just a sarcasm
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
In 2001 and the middle east.
Pakistan
Uzbekistan
Tajikistan
Afghanistan
Kyrgyzstan
Oman
Saudi-Arabia
Kuwait
Quatar
Bahrain
Egypt
Turkey
We can add Iraq to that list now.
No Israel BTW.
Link
Happy now?
you forgat iran north korea libya syria russia sudan china but no , no israel
where had gone the common sense , where ? maybe we will find it in the next arab who is going to blast himself on american soldiers .........
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
what ? i really really really don't have the ability to understand such a complexed argument
Its a simple fact , nothing complex about it at all Ceasar , from the Balfour Declaration , the controls on immigration , the allocation of land and the drawing of borders . An absolute farce .
And the US Presidents writings on the creation of the State sum it all up perfectly .
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
between holocaust and "farce" (?????) i prefer the second
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
well (Well) in the name of the jewish people i thank you beirut (Beirut) to let us exists ~:cheers:
No thanks needed. As far as I have heard, the Jewish people existed prior to my birth. So as much as I appreciate the thought, I cannot in good conscience accept all the credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
i (I) thank the canadian people who fought for us in 1948 against 7 arab states and established our jewish empire
Don't forget Canadians like my father who fought (and beat!) the Nazis in WWII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
i (I) thank the usa (USA) for its war against sadam in 1991 that saved us from iraqi occupation (ah sorry the war was in kuwait for some oil gallons)
Yes, I believe Israel owes the US a great deal of thanks. A great deal indeed. Perhaps one day that gratitude will actually appear in the light of day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
i (I) thank you again dear beirut for showing us again (in 2005 ce) that a small nation that have a big empire (1/26 of the size of Texas) could create such a hatred as if we are in 1930' germany
My dearest Caeser44, again, no thanks needed. Mind you, I'm not certain as to what hatred you imply. Do you speak of the hatred of the Palestinians towards Israel for Israel's decades long subjugation of the Palestinian people? The hatred for the torture? The hatred for the humiliations and beatings and arrests and detentions without trial? The hatred for the theft of land and water and resources? The hatred for the apartheid? The hatred for the denial of the basic necessities of life? The hatred for the bulldozing of homes? The hatred for the thousands and thousands of Palestinian children injured, maimed and crippled by Israeli weapons.
If you could narrow it down, I would most certainly appreciate it. :bow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
you know the Nazis also did not understood how the jews control everything
I should correct you and state that the Jews did not "control everything" regardless of what you might have heard. The Nazis were mental nincompoops and racists. Many people with inferior qualities have had the same exagerated thoughts as them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
another (Another) thing - please don't analyse us , we are 12,000,000 individuals and our enemies did it for 2,000 years now
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
Actually, the analysis is not mine. After watching Schiendler's List, The Piano, Life is beautiful, The Holocaust, and a myriad of other movies about the Jewish existence, and reading about the history of Israel in books by Jewish professors from Israeli universities, and reading countless newspaper editorials by Jewish writers and countless letters to the editor by Jewish readers, as well as listening to many, many stories of Jewish life from my Jewish friends and my parent's Jewish friends, I am simply relating what I have heard from jewish people themselves.
Three beers cheers! I am thankful my dear sir. But those precious brews will have to wait until after work. :bow:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
maybe we will find it in the next arab who is going to blast himself on american soldiers .........
Doth he who oposeth cultural generalizations and analytical stereotypes speaketh them himself?
Aghast are we.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
between holocaust and "farce" (?????) i prefer the second
But the holocaust was over , what has that got to do with any of this ? This farce started before the holocaust and continues today long after it ~:confused:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
you forgat iran north korea libya syria russia sudan china but no , no israel
where had gone the common sense , where ? maybe we will find it in the next arab who is going to blast himself on american soldiers .........
Little edgy here aren't we?
As I understood it the argument was the importance of Turkey and Israel as stagepoints for American troops and as allies (more or less).
Quote:
3) One of two nations in the region that can offer major port facilities and airbase access to the US military. The other being Turkey.
Thus I namned those countries with American bases that Gawain asked for several times and pointed out that the ally Israel don't got any.
I'm aware that it would be stupid for the Americans to place bases in Israel, for several reasons, but that wasn't the question.
Outside the Palestina-issue I don't have any problem with Israel, infact they got some policies I like. Havn't been there, so I don't know about the people.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
about the hatred -
in a single day there are hundreds of people who get killed by dictators (including arab dictators and palestinians against palestinians) and you beirut took the most convenient case - blame the jew !!! blame israel !!! no it is not interesting to blame englishmen about their doing in north ireland or to blame the turks about the kurds or to blame the chinese about tibet or to blame the syrians about the sunni or to blame russia about the chechenians (whatever) or or or or
as simple as that
now not one word about 1,200 jews who were murdered by the palestinians in the last 3 years - if not hatred then what is it ~:confused:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
:stop:
Before this thread degenerates in flaming and personal attacks (it sure is on the brink of it), I'd like to point out that this thread is about Israel and its status as an important US ally.
In this context it seems a bit strange to accuse another patron of focussing his attention in this thread on Israel.
I would appreciate if the participants of this discussion (and that is generally directed at all participants) would take a step back and calm down for a moment.
If you come to the conclusion that you would like to continue the discussion on the issue, please do so in a civilized manner. If anyone the feeling that this is rather turning into a personal issue, perhaps it would be a wise decision to refrain from further posting in this thread until things chill down a bit.
I would not like to have to close this one... :bow:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
In 2001 and the middle east.
Pakistan
Uzbekistan
Tajikistan
Afghanistan
Kyrgyzstan
Oman
Saudi-Arabia
Kuwait
Quatar
Bahrain
Egypt
Turkey
We can add Iraq to that list now.
No Israel BTW.
Link
Happy now?
]
Hell no Im not. You havent named 1 major base yet. Besides the original statement was
Quote:
One of two nations in the region that can offer major port facilities and airbase access to the US military. The other being Turkey.
You notice its a two part statement. You also havent given me any major port facility. Also you havent shown that any of these countries would let us step up our use of any of these facilities Turkey again is the best of these nations and they REFUSED to let us use our own bases there.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
as simple as that
now not one word about 1,200 jews who were murdered by the palestinians - if not hatred then what is it
Well there is this...
The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes.
Then this...
"Jesus Christ couldn't please them when he was here on earth, so how can anyone expect that I would have any luck?"
How about ...
"I've had it with those hotheads. Don't ever admit them again, and what's more, I also never want to hear the word Palestine mentioned again."
So are those the words of someone with a hatred of Jews Ceasar ?
Farcical is it not? ~;)
just to finish some of his quotes ... "let them all go to hell."
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
You also havent given me any major port facility.
Ask General Zinni about port facilities Gawain ~D ~D ~D
Would you like a clue ? USS Cole :book:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment.
You really do hate Jews dont you? How can you make such a blanket statement?
Quote:
Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog
Comparing Israel to these regimes is both wrong and disgusting and makes you look silly. Maybe you should hang out with Dick Durbin.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
You really do hate Jews dont you? How can you make such a blanket statement?
Learn your History Gawain , they are each taken word for word from President Truman .... you know the man who pushed through the craetion of the state and the partition of Palestine ~D
Comparing Israel to these regimes is both wrong and disgusting and makes you look silly.
Hey he was your President , not mine ~:cheers:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
said moses (our great rescuer) - "love the foreigner as you love yourself"
now leave it ...
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Learn your History Gawain , they are each taken word for word from President Truman .... you know the man who pushed through the craetion of the state and the partition of Palestine
I dont care who said it. Its still wrong.
Quote:
Hey he was your President , not mine
I was 6 months old at the time. I couldnt even comprehend what a president was.
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
America's 'irreplacable ally' just resumed its policy of assassinations. The funniest part is, they did it WHILE ABBAS AND SHARON WERE HOLDING PEACE TALKS. They also talked about having to launch attacks with massive collateral damage in civilian areas if their assassinations don't work the first time. So, you can pretty much say bye bye ceasefire, hello holy war once again.
Unbelievable, you say? Not at all:
Quote:
Israel resumes assassination policy
'Targeted killings' of Palestinian extremists had been suspended
Updated: 9:48 a.m. ET June 22, 2005
JERUSALEM - Israel said on Wednesday it had resumed an assassination policy against some Palestinian militants and could mount air strikes with the risk of civilian casualties to ensure its Gaza pullout does not come under fire.
The Israeli threats, prompted by a flare-up of Islamic Jihad militant attacks on Jewish settlers in Gaza, underscored the deterioration of a four-month-old cease-fire and followed an acrimonious Israeli-Palestinian summit.
Israel shelved “targeted killings” of militants in February as part of a truce deal. But resurgent violence has raised the specter of disruption to Israel’s planned August withdrawal from Gaza and dimmed hopes for “road map” peace talks afterwards.
Word that the assassination policy had been dusted off came with Israeli confirmation of a failed missile strike on Tuesday while Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas were holding tense talks in Jerusalem.
Missed 'opportunity'
“There was an attempt in Gaza to intercept an (Islamic Jihad) activist yesterday. It was unsuccessful,” Public Security Minister Gideon Ezra said. “An opportunity presented itself. Any means to neutralize the organization are relevant and possible.”
Islamic Jihad has resumed mortar bomb and rocket salvoes against Jewish settlements in Gaza in what it calls retaliation for continued Israeli raids to capture wanted militants.
“The attempt yesterday to kill an Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza signaled the resumption of the targeted killing policy,” an Israeli security source told Reuters.
Khaled al-Batsh, a senior Islamic Jihad leader, warned of “terrible consequences” if Israel carried out assassinations.
“The calm would thereby end. We will not be dictated to by Israel,” he told Reuters in Gaza.
Later, a senior adviser to Sharon said Israel could stage air strikes in Gaza, even at the risk of Palestinian civilian casualties, if militants tried to attack departing settlers in a bid to show they were chasing them out of occupied territory.
'Major collateral damage' possible
“Israel will act in a very resolute manner to prevent terror attacks and (militant) fire while the disengagement is being implemented,” said Eival Giladi, head of the Coordination and Strategy team in Sharon’s office.
“If pinpoint response proves insufficient, we may have to use weaponry that causes major collateral damage, including helicopters and planes, with mounting danger to people in the surrounding area,” Giladi said.
Withdrawing from Gaza under fire would be political poison for Sharon, strengthening rightist foes who have said the pullout would be perceived by the Palestinians and Arab world as a sign of weakness after four years of bloodshed.
Israeli air force drones have been hovering at low altitude over Gaza since Monday evening in an indication of preparedness for renewed lightning strikes on militants.
Tense summit
At their summit, Sharon complained to Abbas that the moderate Palestinian leader was doing little to rein in gunmen from whom he wrung a pledge of “calm” after his election in January on a platform of non-violence and peace negotiations.
Other militant groups including the most powerful, Hamas, have generally respected the truce pact. The overall level of violence is much lower than during the Palestinian revolt launched in the occupied West Bank and Gaza in 2000.
Sharon and Abbas agreed at their meeting to cooperate for as smooth as possible an evacuation of 8,500 settlers from Gaza and a few hundred among 230,000 in the West Bank set for August.
But aides to Abbas said Sharon brushed aside his requests for gestures to relieve burdens of occupation, including open borders for Gaza, a removal of a roadblock network in the West Bank and further releases of jailed Palestinians.
Abbas says such gestures would help him isolate militants.
However, Sharon stuck to his position that Abbas act first to disarm militants and ruled out diplomatic progress otherwise.
Washington counts on what would be Israel’s first uprooting of settlements on land Palestinians want for a state. Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank in the 1967 Middle East war.
Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8315567/
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Edit: Actually, I KNOW I was wrong to put you guys in the second category, and I apologize. One good example of how deep our relationship goes is it was Canada patrolling some of our domestic airspace when we launched the first strikes against Afghanistan and had to send some domestically based wings overseas. I apologize. :bow:
No problem, apology accepted.
:cheers:
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
I dont care who said it. Its still wrong.
So no apology for implying that they were my words Gawain ~;)
I was 6 months old at the time. I couldnt even comprehend what a president was.
Well whats strange is that you didn't recognise his words since you seem to consider yourself an "expert" on the policy that those quotes are about and everything surrounding it .
Or don't they include those statements in your usual propoganda sources ? do they only contain his ones about the Arabs (yes there are plenty of those as well) ?
Perhaps you should view facts from both sides of the fence every once in a while .
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Re: America's irreplaceable ally
Quote:
So no apology for implying that they were my words Gawain
Nope you didnt post them as quotes from Truman at first but they appeared to be your own.
Quote:
Well whats strange is that you didn't recognise his words since you seem to consider yourself an "expert" on the policy that those quotes are about and everything surrounding it .
Yes I know every word spoken by everyone on the matter. Id like to see that statement in context. If thats what he believed why would he back Israel?
Quote:
Perhaps you should view facts from both sides of the fence every once in a while .
I always do ~;)