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People have faith because they expect something in return. They expect a meaning, and an afterlife, but they will never get those things. Never.
As Nietzsche asid, faith is not accepting the truth, and the truth is that there is no meaning, that there is no God, that there is no afterlife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
you claim your view as fact. Just cause you dont believe in God does not mean that it's fact.
It is a fact. People have always been scared to admit it, because they lose their security in the state of mind. It's such a simple truth, that god doesn't exist, yet it seems so inexplicably hard for people to grasp.
Religion is an opiant.
"The two largest opiants in Europe - alcohol and Christianity" - Nietzsche
Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
"Denn du bist was du isst"
- Rammstein
Thought to present a second opinion ~D
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies". - Friedrich Nietzsche
Enough with quoting people. Let's hear what you think in your own words.
That is a contradiction. The human mind thinks logically, and when faith is when it ignores all logic and starts wishful thinking. Faith is like when you are child and you hope to bcome an action hero. There is no difference between hoping you'll be something you'll never become and know it, and believing in someone that has never existed because you are hoping for a meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
IMO, no one is certain about their faith. If they were they wouldn't mourn death, and they wouldn't be afraid of it. If they trully believed they would be certain of where they will end up and they wouldn't have doubts. Well, most Christians I have ever met are terrified of death just like atheists and buddhists. Because they are uncertain, and because the logical side of their brain apears to be working once in a while.
It is quite a famous quote... and how is it a contradiction again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Bp, just cause you can quote people who think god is just peoples imagination, does not make it fact. I have not seen you post one thing here that makes it a fact that God doesn't exist.
Just cause I don't have facts doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Think about it, most problems in physics are solved with logic, and not facts.
Fact: People have believed in different gods before Christianity and Islam, and are now mostly laughed at because of their ridiculous beliefs
Fact: There is not one fact that god exists. This proves he doesn't. The only theory that religions have right now is the big bang, and even that is so far-fetched it's laughable. How can we ever know what hapened trillions of years ago, it's absurd to even think about.
Fact: People create Gods and fantasy worlds like heaven to sooth their hunger for infinite question of the universe that will likely never be answered. So instead of dealing with that fact, they create solutions that are easy to digest.
Need any more facts? ~:handball:
Isn't it rather so that faith is a product of logical thinking combined with the unknown ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Isn't wishful thinking actually the urge and need to answer questions on the unknown and the future ?
Also, I can't say that most people I know are afraid of death. More the opposite actually. Fear of death is for me a question of maturity and peace with one self.
God doesn't exists, because when I knocked on heavens door, he said he wasn't there.....
Faith doesn't really require that there are a meaning or an afterlife. Faith is trust for something or someone. I think the metaphysical spin on faith is only a lack of reality in one life. This doesn't mean that there is no God, meaning or afterlife. Most people can't accept the unknown. In this case you seem to be convinced there are nothing after and there is no meaning, but in reality you don't really know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
I always try to accept the unkown and respect both views.
Unfortunately, faith is misused as a political tool and even in an internet forum like this, emotions runs high when it's talked about.
bmolsson you could make that useless argument about everything.
You can't say that [blank] doesn't exist because you don't know for sure.
Fill blank in with any combination of letters.
Well IMO I don't need to know for sure, something that there is no evidence for.
This conversation is getting dull, can we have a serious conversation about this instead of using mythology to prove our claims.
You can’t prove a negative and certainly not if it is extra-physical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
The big bang is a religious construct?Quote:
The only theory that religions have right now is the big bang, and even that is so far-fetched it's laughable. How can we ever know what hapened trillions of years ago, it's absurd to even think about.
It's not my intention to bore you BP, just wanted to suggest that you take faith for what it is. The existence of God, meaning or afterlife is irrelevant in our daily lives. Faith isn't. For us to be able to meet fanatism, fundamentalism and even extremism, we need to acknowledge the existence of faith and we need to try to understand what is under it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Further more, note that I am not saying you are wrong..... ~:grouphug:
It seems logical that there is a God.Quote:
Think about it, most problems in physics are solved with logic, and not facts.
there is not one fact that God doesn't exisrQuote:
Fact: There is not one fact that god exists. This proves he doesn't. The only theory that religions have right now is the big bang, and even that is so far-fetched it's laughable. How can we ever know what hapened trillions of years ago, it's absurd to even think about.
That not the purpose of christianity, but if it makes it easier to digest believe what you want. ~;)Quote:
Fact: People create Gods and fantasy worlds like heaven to sooth their hunger for infinite question of the universe that will likely never be answered. So instead of dealing with that fact, they create solutions that are easy to digest.
I would like some more opinions that you claim are facts. ~;)Quote:
Need any more facts? ~:handball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
If you will look at the argument I had with big john, the later part is more clear, nobody was using mythology as to prove any claims.
He said he had a "personal experience", he said he had "faith" and he 'felt it in his heart and soul". He said felt god tell him to blow himself up.Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
What do you say to this?
He (the soon-to-be-suicide bomber) said he had:
personal experience of god + felt god in his heart and soul (faith) = "missing some marbles".
You (King of Atlantis) said you had:
personal experience of god + felt god in your heart and soul (faith) = ???
~:confused:
So all the animals in the world from the past to the present didnt' go to 'heaven' or 'hell'? No dinosaurs in heaven, no dogs, no cats no chickens?Quote:
I dont think so, but i dont really worry about who is or isnt going to hell. Im not God and im not the one to judge. I simply follow my spiritual path, and if I converted somebody that would be cool, but im not here to shove religion down anybody's throats.
So you are saying dogs aren't your 'god's' creation? Plants and other animals are essential in life. You probably think man can live without plants and other animals and organisms.Quote:
no, is this a logical question. Dogs dont even know that the have a name, and arent advanced nearly enough to have some kind of though like that.
So if a lion kills and eats a gazelle it is wrong? If man kills and eats a chicken, it is right?Quote:
animals, sin? no, they only follow their instincts to survive. What makes humans(and mabye some other primates) different is we can tell the differnece between right and wrong.
Lions have to eat too you know.
They are good enough to fix nitrogen and provide us with food, but no 'soul'?Quote:
Dont have faith as they dont have enought mental power to follow a faith journey. Im not sure if the have a soul or not.
We just have a more advanced brain, that's all the difference there is really. So, the brain makes the soul?
'Not very often' means you more than 0 times you have eaten a toothbrush, shoe, pillow, or spoon and others that I have mentioned. I'm calling your bluff and free will ~;)Quote:
Not very often, but i still could. That is free will. Making any descision represents free will.
What you eat is already chemically determined by your DNA, ok? Enzymes that digest the food are encoded in your DNA.Quote:
So, i choose to eat what i wanted. That is free will. I dont see your logic here at all.
Anything that those enzymes can't digest can't be food and hence you don't eat. Your choice of food was a 'choice' of your DNA NOT you!
Your missing the point of faith. It isnt like I pray to God and he gives me a list of things to do. Someone who would think God tells them to break the laws he gave them is crazy.Quote:
He said he had a "personal experience", he said he had "faith" and he 'felt it in his heart and soul". He said felt god tell him to blow himself up.
What do you say to this?
He (the soon-to-be-suicide bomber) said he had:
personal experience of god + felt god in his heart and soul (faith) = "missing some marbles".
You (King of Atlantis) said you had:
personal experience of god + felt god in your heart and soul (faith) = ???
~:confused:
I said it before, and i'll say it again no.Quote:
So all the animals in the world from the past to the present didnt' go to 'heaven' or 'hell'? No dinosaurs in heaven, no dogs, no cats no chickens?
never said anything like that. I said they aren't smart enough to pray.Quote:
So you are saying dogs aren't your 'god's' creation? Plants and other animals are essential in life. You probably think man can live without plants and other animals and organisms.
Neither of them are sinning. Did i say eating food is bad?Quote:
So if a lion kills and eats a gazelle it is wrong? If man kills and eats a chicken, it is right?
Lions have to eat too you know.
again i dont know. None of these questions are in a relgion so i would just be talking out of my ass to answer you.Quote:
They are good enough to fix nitrogen and provide us with food, but no 'soul'?
We just have a more advanced brain, that's all the difference there is really. So, the brain makes the soul?
You didnt call any bluff. I COULD do those things, but im wise enough not too. I have eaten dirt and some others things that arent food before.Quote:
'Not very often' means you more than 0 times you have eaten a toothbrush, shoe, pillow, or spoon and others that I have mentioned. I'm calling your bluff and free will ~;)
No again i could eat whatever i wanted. My bodies reaction might be different thoug.Quote:
What you eat is already chemically determined by your DNA, ok? Enzymes that digest the food are encoded in your DNA.
I could have eaten pizza or toast just now. They are both edible but i choose the one i wanted.Quote:
Anything that those enzymes can't digest can't be food and hence you don't eat. Your choice of food was a 'choice' of your DNA NOT you!
Free will is very interesting. How much of our lives are actually free will ? It's not very much actually. Try to go through what you do during a day and see how many of your decisions are actually free will and how many are due to instinct, fear, external expectations, laws etc...
You would be suprised how much stuff is free. When watching t.v i choose the channel i want to watch. I could care less about anything less than that.
It is his PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!! And he said he felt it in his heart and soul!Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
You said it is your personal experience and you felt god in your heart and soul.
No difference at all! You as a believer question a believer. How do you expect a nonbeliever not to question you?
Anything that's not in the bible right? In 5000 years, anything that's not in bible as well... In 10000 years?Quote:
I said it before, and i'll say it again no.
So god's creation: the animals are not allowed in heaven because they can't 'pray' and have 'faith'.Quote:
never said anything like that. I said they aren't smart enough to pray.
Some people say death penalty is good, and some say death penalty is wrong. They are both MAN (humans). What is right or wrong?Quote:
Neither of them are sinning. Did i say eating food is bad?
Well, you said the dogs can't pray because their brain isn't developed. Our brain is developed so we can 'pray' and have 'faith'. Hence, the soul is a function of the brain.Quote:
Again i dont know. None of these questions are in a relgion so i would just be talking out of my ass to answer you.
So if dogs have a developed brain they can 'pray' and have 'faith' and god would let them in his 'heaven' and they would also get a 'soul'. :dizzy2:
Ok. You are in the middle of a huge desert. You haven't eaten in 5 day. You are tired, hungry and thirsty. There are no plants, water (underground) or animals. All there is are sand, rocks, the sun and your clothes. There is nothing within a 1000 mile radius but sand, rocks, the sun and your clothes.Quote:
You didnt call any bluff. I COULD do those things, but im wise enough not too. I have eaten dirt and some others things that arent food before.
Exercise your 'free will'. ~:)
You could but you didn't and you wouldn't ever eat your computer. ~:)Quote:
No again i could eat whatever i wanted. My bodies reaction might be different thoug.
Your DNA said you can digest carbohydrates (pizza and toast). That's not your choice but your DNA's choice. Your DNA said you can't digest your plate under the pizza and toast, that's why you have no free will to eat the plate.Quote:
I could have eaten pizza or toast just now. They are both edible but i choose the one i wanted.
I expect you to question me. Faith is all personal. My faith isnt meant to convert you, the only way to be religious is to have faith of your own.Quote:
It is his PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!! And he said he felt it in his heart and soul!
You said it is your personal experience and you felt god in your heart and soul.
No difference at all! You as a believer question a believer. How do you expect a nonbeliever not to question you?
actually i meant to say i dont know. Thats what i said the fisrt time, you twisted my point and even got me confused. I dont know if animals go to heaven and its really not a concern of mine.Quote:
Anything that's not in the bible right? In 5000 years, anything that's not in bible as well... In 10000 years?
The can't pray and have faith thats for sure, They are not nearly intellectual enough. As for going to heaven again i dont really know or care.Quote:
So god's creation: the animals are not allowed in heaven because they can't 'pray' and have 'faith'.
murder is wrong.Quote:
Some people say death penalty is good, and some say death penalty is wrong. They are both MAN (humans). What is right or wrong?
loving your neighbor is right.
on the death penalty i dont know. I dont claim to be God were I can say whats right or wrong.
Alright when i pray to god. I thank him for what he has done, ask for forgivnece etc. A dog can't do that or even understand the concept. So yes the mind, body and soul are all related.Quote:
Well, you said the dogs can't pray because their brain isn't developed. Our brain is developed so we can 'pray' and have 'faith'. Hence, the soul is a function of the brain.
they might already have a soul, but again i dont know. Surely if they had a developed brain then they could pray and have a faith.Quote:
So if dogs have a developed brain they can 'pray' and have 'faith' and god would let them in his 'heaven' and they would also get a 'soul'. :dizzy2:
alright i could sing, i could go pee, i could build a sand castle, etc... the list goes on and on.Quote:
Ok. You are in the middle of a huge desert. You haven't eaten in 5 day. You are tired, hungry and thirsty. There are no plants, water (underground) or animals. All there is are sand, rocks, the sun and your clothes. There is nothing within a 1000 mile radius but sand, rocks, the sun and your clothes.
Exercise your 'free will'. ~:)
so you admit i have free will to do it.Quote:
You could but you didn't and you wouldn't ever eat your computer. ~:)
yes my choice was which one i could eat.Quote:
Your DNA said you can digest carbohydrates (pizza and toast). That's not your choice but your DNA's choice.
I cant digest it, but i could still eat it.Quote:
Your DNA said you can't digest your plate under the pizza and toast, that's why you have no free will to eat the plate.
Where's this debate going. It certainly isn't heading upwards to "Heaven".
These are, once again, your opinions... What you "know" within yourself, and what is true are not necessarily mutually inclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
God gives..... ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
How do you know you´re acting free?Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
It freedom that's not controlled. There are many other things too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson