Greatest Military Nation

Wow, this is the biggest thread I've ever started. Three pages after a couple of days!

Anyway, its absurd to say the USA is the greatest military nation ever. They've only been the sole superpower for a decade or two. Romans lasted centuries. And plus, I don't think the USA will be top of the ladder for much longer the way China's going. And fair enough, the USA doesn't wage war on everyone like the Romans, but the situation nowadays is kind of different than it ways a couple of centuries ago. You can't start big wars nowadays because of nuclear weapons. Thats why the USA cant invade China, like Romans invading Greece or somewhere like that. But the USA is still involved in plenty of wars with little countries that cant defend themselves. OK, sometimes its for the best removing mad dictators, but the motives behind some wars are more debatable, but lets not start a political argument.

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They've only been the sole superpower for a decade or two.

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Are you serious?

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You can't start big wars nowadays because of nuclear weapons.

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Do you think if we said we were taking over Iraq anyone would launch nukes at us? If the US wanted to we could have taken the world over long ago when we were the only nuclear power around. Even today I doubt anyone would resort to nuclear war . In a conventional war we are untouchable. Imagine the US mobilised as it was in WW2 nowdays.

If we are talking of the most military nation then that obviously goes to Sparta.

Yes, the USSR didn't collapse until around a decade ago.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

I think that Britain, Germany, Nepal, India, Russia, and goodness knows which other countries have better skill than a US soldier...

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:no: What has that to do with anything, even if it were true (which is not)? Most wars are won through superior technology, logistics and tactics, not individual skills of a grunt...

Heh, what's with the America bashing today? Just because people don't agree with American politics today (like I do) doesn't mean you can realistically say the US militairy sucks and that the US preformed worthless and imperialistic in every war they fought.
It's simply not very...realistic. ~:rolleyes:

since the fall of the USSR? about 20 years ago, wasn't it

Never said that just said they've not had the best military of their time for long enough compared to Romans etc. to really be called the best military nation of all time.

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Yes, the USSR didn't collapse until around a decade ago.

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since the fall of the USSR? about 20 years ago, wasn't it

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THe collapse of the USSR made the US the worlds only suoer power. The US was a super power long before that.

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Never said that just said they've not had the best military of their time for long enough compared to Romans etc. to really be called the best military nation of all time.

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There was nothing about longevity in the question. So far all we know is that Rome fell while we are still going strong. We had a whole thread on this. If the US were like Rome or even Britain of old there would now be only one world government ~;)

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Originally Posted by Ash

:no: What has that to do with anything, even if it were true (which is not)? Most wars are won through superior technology, logistics and tactics, not individual skills of a grunt...

Heh, what's with the America bashing today? Just because people don't agree with American politics today (like I do) doesn't mean you can realistically say the US militairy sucks and that the US preformed worthless and imperialistic in every war they fought.
It's simply not very...realistic. ~:rolleyes:

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they didn't perform worthlessly. Most wars are won with good strategy and good skill in the soldier. The US military is good because of numbers and technology, but that sort of thing doesn't make it the greatest military nation in the world.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

THe collapse of the USSR made the US the worlds only suoer power. The US was a super power long before that.

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Yes, but he did say sole super power

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Yes, but he did say sole super power

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But that begs the point. That being that the US was a super power long before that.

but not that long before it. I would say about WW2. Britain was a superpower from mid 18th - mid 20th century

How can you possibly argue the USA was the greatest military nations ever? Its only been a super power for 50 years, and its only been sole super power for a couple of decades. And longetivity is relevant, as only truly great military nations could stay super powers. And lets face it, the USA is about to be replaced by China. And dont say if the USA was like the Romans there would be only one government. If the USA dared to be like the Romans and try to conquer the world nuclear war would break out.

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If the USA dared to be like the Romans and try to conquer the world nuclear war would break out.

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And who would be the first to launch nukes at the USA and who would take their side? Most likely Britain would remain our ally as would Israel. It would be a pretty onesided affair.

Well it would still be a pretty nasty one all round. Anyway this is turning into a stupid argument and we're not supposed to argue about politics here.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

And who would be the first to launch nukes at the USA and who would take their side? Most likely Britain would remain our ally as would Israel. It would be a pretty onesided affair.

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It depends who you tried to conquer. Britain will favour the Commonwealth over the USA anyday.

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Originally Posted by King Malcolm

I think that Britain, Germany, Nepal, India, Russia, and goodness knows which other countries have better skill than a US soldier...

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You would be wrong - I have trained with the soldiers of about 20 nations - the only soldiers that come close to the training levels of the United States Military, are a few the British maybe being better, Canadians, Austrialians, and the elite units of the Russian Military.

Well most of the others well just can not function at our level of the average American soldier, sailor, airmen, and (I hate to say it) marine. Most militaries do not allow there NCO's to lead - only officers. The only Militaries that come close to the United States are those militaries that allow their non-commissioned officers to function as leaders.

I agree with Red. NCO is a pivatol rank that only a few militaries use. Most NATO countries follow along the same doctrine as America, and Russia has had to change theirs in light of the fall of the Soviet Union to match NATO. The Russians use of Special Forces is a bit different than NATOs use however, being more elite shock troops rather than nimble stealthy Special Forces that western countries use. Spetz natz remains an ultimate battlefield special force, functioning like the 101st rather than the SEALS. That is why Russian can never seem to take down terrorists holding ups as easily as NATO countries can.

China still employees to the worlds knowledge massed infantry assaults with tanks and arty in support. I don't know how well such a doctrine would work on the modern battlefield.

British Regulars are still probably amongst the best marksmen in the world, and about the most insane and courageous as well. A Scottish Regiment (I forgot the name) in the 2nd Invasion of Iraq actually overtook an Iraqi Trench by charging into it, rather than calling in for Air Support, and took zero casualties.

I vote:

1: Romans
2: Mongols
3: Egyptians

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Originally Posted by Wazikashi

China still employees to the worlds knowledge massed infantry assaults with tanks and arty in support. I don't know how well such a doctrine would work on the modern battlefield.

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Unlike the human-wave peasant army of the 1950s, China is heavily industrialized and has quite a lot of soviet-style armor. The soviet combat doctrine is NOT to be dismissed lightly, though it remains to be seen if China has/will develop the flexible thinking/command structure necessary for a modern battlefield. Such emphasis on individual initiative and low-echelon decision making is not exactly the hallmark of communist oligarchies. Still, they're less inflexible than they were even 10 years ago....

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Originally Posted by Wazikashi

British Regulars are still probably amongst the best marksmen in the world, and about the most insane and courageous as well. A Scottish Regiment (I forgot the name) in the 2nd Invasion of Iraq actually overtook an Iraqi Trench by charging into it, rather than calling in for Air Support, and took zero casualties.

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Hey, 10 out of 10 for style, but minus several million points for good thinking. Glad it worked though.

SF

:no: This is getting old. More thread rules bickering, biased chest-thumping bravado from both sides of the US-greatest-military-nation "debate", and a few brave individuals here and there trying to keep the thread on topic. This thread is in the Monastery, not the Backroom.

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

:no: This is getting old. More thread rules bickering, biased chest-thumping bravado from both sides of the US-greatest-military-nation "debate", and a few brave individuals here and there trying to keep the thread on topic. This thread is in the Monastery, not the Backroom.

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Bty , the debate is really a weird one - to say "I am the greatest military..." is not nothing to be proud of , what about some peace ~D ~D ~D ~D ~D (just kidding...)

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Originally Posted by King_Of_Portugal_2

I vote:

1: Romans
2: Mongols
3: Egyptians

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Interesting to see the Egyptians pop up :egypt: . They did create quite an impact back in the day.

Also, to me “Greatest Military Nation” includes the people, hence the “nation” part.
Rome doesn’t cut it and neither does the US as the military for both is/was only a tiny % of the population. Population vs. military size and then factor in the nations support of the military… Both great militaries but Greatest Military Nation? nope. Mongols still #1. ~D

Turks - all the time.. You may try looking up into the history a bit more when it comes to military..

I will agree. Turks, the second longest Empire more than 400 years

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

No Germany? Hmmph.. :no:

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:balloon2:

By the way, Gawain continues his neverending US propaganda here too.. Trying to prove US as a great military nation is trying to persuade people that a pineapple will conquer the world the other day with its delicious juice.. He is sounding just ridiculous. Ending draw with an South Asian country in a war (do not come up with tense forests that scrambled everyhting or anything else like that. A "big" military had to know that..) already proves that US is an average..

Conquest of the world (called "Red Apple" traditionally) is an Turkish ambition continuing for ages - imaginary or rational, I don't mind. It reflects our militaristic passion..

LeftEyeNine, I think the Monastery patrons are intelligent enough to make there own decisions as to who's arguments are valid and who's arguments are "propaganda". A patron calling a particular nation the Greatest Military Nation does not make it fact - it is only an opinion. Likewise, a patron labeling another's argument as propaganda does not make it fact - it is only an opinion and a not so nice one at that I might add. :no: Spend less time labeling and more time counter-arguing if it is that important to you. Each of us will make our own decisions regarding this and other topics and as you can see above there is a wide variety of opinion on this particular subject.


BTW, you are wrong about the pineapple, it is the grape that will conquer the world.

Hmm, as long as your post brings, that does not make the grape conquering the world a fact, does it ?

I did not discuss or try to set a level for the intelligence level of the forum patrons. It's just annoying to see Uncle Sam posters everywhere. I bet you can notice it.

Contradictively, it's the claim of intelligence debate of patrons by yelling US in every topic. Every member of the forum is intelligent enough to see what US is and what it is not or what it can never be..

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

LeftEyeNine, I think the Monastery patrons are intelligent enough to make there own decisions as to who's arguments are valid and who's arguments are "propaganda". A patron calling a particular nation the Greatest Military Nation does not make it fact - it is only an opinion. Likewise, a patron labeling another's argument as propaganda does not make it fact - it is only an opinion and a not so nice one at that I might add. :no: Spend less time labeling and more time counter-arguing if it is that important to you. Each of us will make our own decisions regarding this and other topics and as you can see above there is a wide variety of opinion on this particular subject.

BTW, you are wrong about the pineapple, it is the grape that will conquer the world.

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You might also remind him that Malta and Vienna undercut the Turks claim to being any better.

Good point about the grape, however, grape juice is powerful stuff -- I try not to mess with it too much.

Seamus

You may try getting into direct contact with me here, Seamus. I am not a maneater..

If you refer to several Vienna siege failures with your words, it was the same empire that ended an age starting a new one, by conquering beloved Istanbul.

Vienna failures were the turn of fate for Ottoman Empires, I accept. But it can not undercut Turkish militaristic superiority being better than US.

Pineapple the Conqueror (would be a fine animation movie, don't you think ? :D )