Interactive History IV: Manstein's Woes

No, no, no. Retreat! Make the Soviets believe that you have to send troops to the Western front. And that you are too weak to fight. Stalin will love to believe this and order a big offensive. Then you have him (and Hitler) were you want to have them.

Kraxis, you are always talking about the Panthers. What about the Ferdinands. If memory serves they appear in this battle first, too. Extremly effective against tanks. But then they had no MG and could not defend against infantry. And they were vulnerable against air attacks.
http://www.armybook.com/summary.html?code=0103020co3

Maybe you could give us also a weather forecast? Thank you! :bow:

All Elephants were sent to 9th Army and are thus in the hands of Model (Manstein and Hoth were not very fond of them). He does have them with him, but we have no impact on how he uses them. We could perhaps try to contact him but it not likely that he will change just because you gave him a call.

The weather has been fairly good for the season. Only local showers and in general spotted cover so the planes have been able to attack. But don't expect it to last.

And it became #1. So no retreats for you there Franconius. ~;)


The Gamble

"Hermann, it is risky to do that, you know it could end up in disaster."
Hoth nods. "Yes, but given the choices we have right now I find it the lesser evil."
You stare at the tactical map on the table in front of you, the situation is critical, you have had too much success for your own good. Those other armoured forces need to get in there at once. Where is Kempf and his panzers?
"Fine Hermann, we will do what you want. But give all the support you can for Kampfgruppe Heidekamp. A lot rides on their survival."
"Of course Erich. GD is fairly closeby, if we halt their artillery they should be able to support the position as would Totenkopf's."
"Ahhh... GD. Isn't it a long slow way to go around Butovo? Order it to take the village. It sits on the highway and blocks rapid advances."

So your orders are carried out. Even before you gave the order LAH was on their way northeast, their spearheads flying through the two weakened Rifle regiments in their way. They had been weak from even before the attacks and then they further weakened their position by throwing away a lot of infantry in their attack on 332nd. Progress is fast, and you estimate that LAH will reach its attackpoint in a few hours, maybe three if something goes wrong. That leaves enough time to carry out the attack on 5th GT Corps.

In the air you have noticed that the three Gruppen of JG52 have been particularly effective in the last few days, sweeping the skies of Russian planes. You demand that at least one Gruppe alway patrol the area around Hell's Foreyard. Atthe same time you send in the small force of Stuka-G with their guns to rip the tanks apart. Already their primary pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, has destroyed no less than 12 enemy tanks in this offensive.
On the ground below them an equal spectacle has played out, when Heidekamp' forces were about to pull back to their original positions, a single Tiger remained outside, its radioantennas blown off. For the better part of an hour it was alone, holding off the Russians with wellplaced shots, while its comrades supported it with longrange fire, clearing the tanks that did get into dangerous range. Its commander, Michael Wittmann, had simply no idea that he was alone until a short lull came about and he looked around. He prudently withdrew his tank.

But even so, the situation is very critical for Heidekamp.
At 4 o'clock he calls you up, to ask for permission to fall back. You can hear the gunner of his tank work in the background, you can sometimes even hear the gun go off. The HQ tank is in the thick of it.
"Sir, we are hard pressed. It just seems that there is no end to the Russian tanks. We blow them up, the next just drives around them, we gun them down, the next use them as cover. It is really a hell here. *interlude as the gunner fires his gun* I want to pull back."
You get great furrows in your forehead. "Sorry Heidekamp, you will have to hang on! Help is on the way, and you have the full support of both GD's and Totenkopfs artillery."
"Sure, but artillery doesn't stop T-34s. And the Panthers are finally giving up. I have lost no less than 12 of them to mechanical breakdowns the last few hours, I have a working total of 17 now. 21 are in the shop and a further 3 are sent to the rear with critical damage. They can't last much more."
"I have ordered that your position is priority for aircover of all kinds. Expect a lot of support. And just keep the Panthers still for the moment, try not to overwork their engines. For the sake of Germany, hold that position!"
"Will try Herr Field Marshall" comes the dry response as Heidekamp signs off.
You quickly turn to Hoth and inquite into the position of LAH.

It is still some way off, and has attracted some unwanted attention from the air, but its hould be ready within the hour.
Das Reich has been suffering anotehr massive tank attack, and again it was forced to pull back its outer positions. This time there was no counterattack, as the Russians were too strong. The division is just goingto hold on to its current position across the small river Vorskla. Hopefully it is enough of a boundary to keep 5th GT Corps on the other side.

The last hour goes with a slowness you have seldomly felt. Everything hinges on the arrival of LAH. Two important forces could get seriously mauled if they fail. And the entire offensive might falter. You occupy yourself with keeping up to date with GD's progress in Butovo. The division detached a battalion of infantry to take the village, but it is guarded by a weakened regiment of Guards (that poor 67th GR Division). They are only slowly getting anywhere and at a high cost. You order Totenkopf to also send a battalion.
Finally Hoth calls for you, LAH is ready. The last half hour the attacks on Das Reich has increased dramatically, tanks, infantry, even trucks with AA guns have attacked them. The Russians know LAH is coming. For a few minutes LAH exchanges fire with the Russian artillery, but nothing comes of it and the attack is launched.

The flank positions of 5th GT Corps is weakly held, but strongly defended. The LAH tanks roll over the positions, but the infantry is forced to fight a deadly fight with the survivors. Hastily dug gunpositions open up on the advancing tanks but they are scattered and not coordinated like your own Pakfronts, or even the positions you encountered at the front earlier.
For an hour the attack drives deeply into the flank of the Corps, and the attacks on Das Reich becomes confused. Some tanks halt and turn others press onwards, yet others just halt.

At this moment, a section from JG53/3 intercepts a transportplane and its escorts from an airfield on the inside of LAH's line of attack. Obviously someone is trying to get out after having led the men from the front. But he doesn't get far. The lumbering transport is brought down with the loss of half the wing over German lines.

The attacks on Das Reich stop completely as the attacks are now themselves under attack from the rear. LAH's spearhead has split up and is now going in different directions, one part going for the head athe other for the tail.
Now is the time for Das Reich to attack westwards against 3rd Mech Corps. You urge them on and press for an attack as soon as possible. Despite the fact that most tanks were facing another way a single reinforced company attacks with infantry in tow. Depsite their rather modest gains, it is soon clear that 3rd Mech is overstretched. They have no tanks left in their rear areas.

Again the attacks on Kampfgruppe Heidekamp slows down, eventually stopping completely as the armoured forces are reorganized to face the new threat. But their position, far from the attack makes it an exercise in futility. You wonder with amazement how this could have happened. The Army commander, or at leas the Front commander was it Rokossovsky? should have ordered a complete halt of 3rd Mech as soon as LAH was gaining momentum on 5th GT. But obviously the order never reached 3rd Mech, and now it is paying a heavy toll for that. As more and more tanks flow westwards the more unstoppable the advance becomes. By nightfall the corps is destroyed as a mobile unit. LAH has achieved much the same results, but 5th GT Corps managed to retreat in order with its 'soft' units.

As night falls the front is almost silent. Both sides completely exhausted from the heavy fighting. As if nature knows this, heavy rains start to fall to wash away the blood, soot and destruction of the day. Making the night a most miserable and cold one for the infantry of both sides.
GD and Totenkopf eventually did take Butovo, but only when Kampgruppe Heidekamp sent a company of Tigers and Panzergrenadiers to help out. You can't help but think it all was some kind of domino-effect. But tomorrow waits another battle, even as the engineers of both sides continue their nightly battles of minefields.

You are told that tomorrow 3rd Panzer Corps, Kempf's men are finally ready, and that Model will likely also start his attack, though he is not too happy about you going in like you did. Hitler is also rather angry with you, but your success has so far kept you clear of his wrath, the capture of land and prisoners will soothe him, but woe to you when you fail in that.
Kampfgruppe Heidekamp is exhausted, and it is quite low on workable tanks. In fact if he had been allowed to retreat you would have lost no less than 10 Panther and 7 Tigers that would have been blown up to prevent capture. They had been in the line as static gunturrets.
The breach ha been widened a good bit, as the capture of Butovo has brought GD into the line next to Totenkopf and Kampfgruppe Heidekamp and the advance of LAH has drastically opened the can in the east. Now 11th Panzer has been able to move up along the flank while 332nd has pulled back to keep an eye on the Rifle divisions down by the old front.

So what will happen tomorow?

1) Order Das Reich, LAH and 11th Panzer to resume the attack towards Oboyan, support with Kampfgruppe Heidekamps where needed. The only sizeable opponent that way is 31st Tank Corps, the last remnant of 1st Tank Army. You are clear of most prepared defenses, so it would be a battle of maneuver.

2) Keep up the attacks on the weakened Russian forces, those of 6th Gurds Rifle Army, 3rd Mech Corps and 5th GT Corps. But in general take it slowly, you men are tired.

3) Understand that Das Reich and Kampfgruppe Heidekamp are in need of rest, but let the rest do their job. LAH will attack more northeasterly towards open terrain of Prokhorovka, while 11th Panzer will drive across the front and join up with Kempf's forces. Totenkopf will resume it's attacks along with GD to keep the western forces occupied. Eventually they will let 3rd Panzer and 255th Infantry take over their positions.

4) Shift your attention from Oboyan to Prokhorovka in total. This will leave 31st Tank Corps in the dust while you have open and free terrain to play with. If you are lucky 3rd Panzer Corps can join up with you there. This of course will mean that Das Reich hav to fight another day at the front, and it's flank is presented to 31st Tank Corps.

5) Sit still and rest the men. Move up the infantry divisions to make certain that your flanks are secure for when you resume the advance. While it sounds silly, to leave the initiative like that, Model and Kempf will start their attacks, drawing off the Russian reinforcements.

Herr field Marshall.Well done. :bow: Now take option number 3.Das Reich and Kampfgruppe Heidekamp are so exhausted that you have to resupply them with reserves,ammunition and fuel.The others can move in the depth of the enemys defence.You must pressure Kempf and Model so they start their attacks so Russians have to spread their defences.After that we give them the next blow.

Nr.3 now. Keeping some sort of initiative might be useful.. ~:)

4. If you want to attack, keep on pushing! Now that you reached free terrain speed up!

Kraxis, I retreat ~;)

P.S.: Who is the guy we shot down?

Option 3 sounds prudent. I'd like a little more reinforcement, though..

Yup. Three is the way to go. Das Reich did its job well, but it suffers losses and its men are exhausted by the continuous fighting. Other divisions which were not as active yesterday can be pushed forward to keep on the initiative. It's not only that others carry their attacks to force the Russians to spread thinner, but you, too, should refuse the Russians a breathing space to concentrate their defenses elsewhere. From the looks of it, their trenches - your greatest trouble - are down, even though they continue to have hordes of men and tanks coming in droves.

Definatley get into 31st before 31st gets into you, but let DR and KH sit for a while. Especially Heidekamp, if 17 of their tanks were immobile, and dozens more out, they need to retool.

So three, and I hope as soon as that plane crashed there was at least a truck loaded with a few soldiers rushing towards it with all possible speed. A plane flying out of the way of an offensive means something, usually someone or something important was in the way.

Yeah Franconius, you wanted a pullback. ~;)

About the 'mystery plane'... We won't know just yet, but you could expect a report in the morning. It did after all fall onto the lane created by LAH's advance.

I hope it's a mech suit. Wolfenstein 3D all over again.

Rest Heidekamp and DR, keeping them on a rearguard. Choice 3. Also, get ready for a massive Russian counterattack. It's seems a bit suspcious that Russians would give ground as easily as this. Normally, they would fight alot harder.

Questions:

1.) How big is the 31st Tank Corps?
2.) What lies beyond the 31st Tank Corps?
3.) What's defending Prokhorovka?

It is estimated that 31st Tank Corps is a bit stronger than 3rd Mech but not as strong as 5th GT Corps, given it wasn't given the priority reinforcements. In all it is a rather strong formation.

The Russians haven't given up at all, but you have procured a lot of reinforcements in the time prior to the offensive, and you hit them at their strongest (attested by their tenacity, previously they wold just have melted away). By defeating the strongest units by attacking them (where they were thought to have been used offensively obviously) you have negated a very dangerous obstacle to your advance, but the cost has been heavy in materiel and supplies.

The road is pretty much open behind 31st, at least until Oboyan, at which point you should expect strategic reserves to come in. But on a local scale 31st are the last troops. It is possible though, that forces from 10th Tanks Corps might reposition to get in the way, but that could be considered a strategic maneuver.

The reports regarding Prokhorovka are not good, but intelligence officers have pieced together a puzzle that leaves two rather strong units in the vicinity, the 2nd Guards Tanks Corps and 35th Guards Rifle Corps. They do not know how strong they are, but it is felt that the sector behind Belgorod was the weakest part of the line, so they might not be up to specs. Also neither are directly in the area, both a little distance south towards Belgorod. An area 3rd Panzer Corps has as operational area.

Discussed the situation with my staff last night and this is he result:

1. We should never forget that we do not only need a minor success. Killing some corps or armies is just not enough. We need a total victory.
2. The enemy knew we would attack. They have a deep defence zone and big forces for a counter strike, just like they had at Stalingrad. The real battle begins with their counter attack.
3. Now that we have decided to attack we must keep speed. If we slow down the Russians will build fortifications out of nothing. They are masters in this art. And they will fill their lines with reinforcements. We might never be able to move again.
4. From 1 to 3 it is good to make the attack as far as possible in the east.
5. The Russians seem to be surprised still. I guess they wonder why we do not attack from the north. Hope they hesitate too long.
6. Air power is crucial for this battle. Red Air Force is strong now. Maybe the best ground support air force in the world. We have to eliminate them or we will loose. Up to now we used our air force for combat support only. We have to refocus. Fighting the Soviet planes over the battle field is like killing ants one by one. We should take all of our planes for a massive strike against the Soviet air fields. After that we should have one third of our fighters to cover the battle fields and one third of our tactical bombers to support the troops. The rest of our fighters should be free hunting behind the lines. If they are not engaged they will attack convoys and give us more information about what is going on behind the lines. The rest of our tactical bombers as well as all of our level bomber shall attack behind the lines: depots, esp. fuel depots, convoys, railway stations, artillery, headquarters … . On the long run this will be better than direct support on the battle field. Once the counter strike began we can focus our air force on the battle field again. You know the best way to stop a Soviet tank corps is to find the supply convoy and destroy it. Then the Stukas and ground forces can do the rest.
7. Be prepared for the counter strike. Bring enough PAK with you. Have a strong strategic reserve.
8. If only there will be no more rain ~:eek:

Today we know what Manstein did not know: The British intelligence knew about the German plans and Hitler’s orders. Churchill gave this information to Stalin. In our scenario we did not follow Hitler’s order’s. So the Russians were taken by surprise. If this battle will become a disaster for the Soviets Stalin will blame Churchill. He will never trust him again. ~:cool:

Kraxis, hope you do not mind my comments. Your story is brilliant, like usually. You should do that for money. With me as test person of course ~;)

Here are some maps. Best I could find!
http://www.onwar.com/maps/wwii/eastfront2/index.htm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Today we know what Manstein did not know: The British intelligence knew about the German plans and Hitler’s orders. Churchill gave this information to Stalin. In our scenario we did not follow Hitler’s order’s. So the Russians were taken by surprise. If this battle will become a disaster for the Soviets Stalin will blame Churchill. He will never trust him again. ~:cool:

Kraxis, hope you do not mind my comments. Your story is brilliant, like usually. You should do that for money. With me as test person of course ~;)

Here are some maps. Best I could find!
http://www.onwar.com/maps/wwii/eastfront2/index.htm

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Not at all, and quite cleverly deducted. It has indeed figured in my throughts that Lucy has given Stalin info. But by making it a personal battle it has caught them off guard. But Stalin didn't know it was British Intelligence it was kept a secret from him (for the very reason you state as well as the Germans shouldn't know it).

I should point out that this Kursk is not like the original one.
We attacked more than two and half months early, so te Russian defences were nothing like the ones that stopped the Germans. Also the Russians haven't had time to pull units together or reinforce others.
We can't control the airpower directly most of the time, it is under the control of Dessloch, and he is unlike von Richthofen not one for close cooperation. He will of course do things you ask, like yesterday, but don't expect any real control.
But the Russians do have substantial reinforcements ready, though not as substantial as originally (the entire Steppe Front at almost full strength), and they haven't been played yet, but you can expect them to come soon as the road is almost open.

Btw, good maps. They should make it a little easier to understand what is going on.

I do not want to control the air power. They should be able to operate more or less independantly and flexible. But I think we should fix the strategy. And my proposal is:
1. Kill the Red Air Force
2. Attack the area behind the lines
3. Support the fighting dividions to stop the counterstrike.

Shifting the Sands

The days fighting has been heavy, very heavy, and on top of that both Das Reich and Kampfgruppe Heidekamp have been in the thick of the action since the first hours of the fighting. They need a rest.
"Hermann, let Das Reich sit still for a while, they need to rest. That way they can act as a bulwark against any attacks from 31st Tank Corps. Also put the Kampfgruppe into tactical reserve behind Das Reich, it could be that their heavy tanks are needed if 31st attacks."
The two of you discuss further what should be done tomorrow, and you end up with a general advance towards the northeast, hopefully capturing the divisions at the old front when Kempf finally attacks. Totenkopf and GD will also conduct local attacks to gain better positions for the softer divisions behind them. Then move up to the point near Das Reich, creating a most formidable position for further major attacks.

So far your tanklosses have been rather substantial, but your good mechanics are doing a good job and have been able to keep the numbers of tanks pretty much even since the first disasterous assault.
The air attacks from the Russians started out confused and disorganized, but yesterday they were well coordinated, but they concentrated their forces in the same places as you did, so their attacks came to little due to their slavish adherring to orders, and not changing flightpatterns.

You lay down to rest for a few hours, and as you dose off you hope the following day will be less intensive so you can rest some.
Your sleep is deep and strong, your dreams are vivid. One dream has you standing on a hill yelling to the hundreds of tanks below to charge, from a ridge on the other side hundreds of Russian tanks appear and a brutal battle ensues. You are instantly trnasported into the thick of it, like a ghost, you see men get gunned down climbing out of their strikken tanks, others run around as human torches... You are disgusted by the carnage, you try to scream but nothing comes of it.
With a jolt you are awoken. You aide stands over you, his face concerned.
"Herr Field Marshall, there is an important visitor." Who the hell can that be? I'm pretty much the most important person for thousands of kilometers.
You get up and move out into the noisy and lively headquarters, a short look at the operational clock tells you it is half past 5 in the morning. Hoth is already up does he ever sleep? He is standing by a man sitting in a chair. The man is short and burly built, with a round face, but you can't see it properly due to it being heavily bandaged. As you get closer you can see that both his legs and his left arm are splinted. He is obviously quite wounded. You can hear russian being spoken.
You get up to Hoth who smiles at you. "Who is he?"
"Oh, I forgot to mention it to your aide. This is Nikolai Vatutin."
"Are you kidding me??? A Soviet Marshall?"
"It is him..." Right then you can recognize him, the bandages did a good job of protecting his features.
"Well, what about him?"
"Apparently a section of JG 52 intercepted his transport and forced it to crash behind out lines, the kill was claimed by Oberleutnant Walter Krupinski, the leading ace of the offensive.
So far I have understood that he was leading the attack on Das Reich himself, and that he was about to unleash the most powerful attack yet, he expects that it would have blown through out forces. The attack by LAH really surprised him, he didn't expect it to move that fast."
"Heh... The entire Voronezh Front is without leadership. Impressive."
"Even better, his political commisar and deputy commander, a certain Nikita Khrushchev, was killed in the crash along with the rest of his staff."
"So has he said anything important?"
"No... Sadly he is a bit dased and not in a state to be put under interrogation."
"Hmmm... Hide him away for the moment. Make sure he gets food and drink, I want him to get better so we can get some info from him."
The two MPs at his sides lift the wretched man up and drag him into a backroom at the wave of Hoth's hand.

An oderly comes running. In his hand is a report from Model, it reads:
"Attack started. Resistance heavy. Losses heavy but advance sure. Expect to take Maloarkhangelsk in hours and Ponyri by night. Soviet armour is not to be seen. Be careful."
At the same time Kempf calls and imforms that his attack has started near Belgorod up along the Donets. The Russian forces are breaking up there and he is expecting a rapid advance.

You realize that you can't wait with your own attack of the day, any longer and send 11th Panzer on its cross attack, while LAH gets it's orders to attack as soon as possible. You deside that neither Totenkopf or GD should attack but instead move up at once while 3rd Panzer and 255th should take over.

Throughout the morning you keep in contact with both Model and Kempf. Model reports good progress though with heavy losses. He feels that he can afford it as he has used his infantry divisions for the initial attacks. Kempf is advancing slower than he expected in his first optimistic due to heavy rains, but at least the enemy resistance is far weaker than expected.
The heavy rains are also affecting your troops, and LAH is having a hard time driving through the remains of 5th GT Corps. Their use of hastily prepared positions is formidable, though in general rather futile.
The rains have also kept the attackplanes grounded in the south, this is both a blessing and a curse. No help for your attacking forces but also there is not interdictions or direct attacks on them. You do hear of violent dogfights above the rather low clouds, so for them it is anoter tough day.

Since the day is quite low on intensity for you, you feel you can let Hoth manage on his own. You enter the room in which Vatutin is held, now is the time for interrogation. You feel that your position might have an impact on him. He certainly looks far more clear in the eyes as he stares at you. He looks with a certain arrogance and admiration at you, but you think you can see fear as well when he notices the two SS MPs.

How are you going to aproach him?

1) Play on your hunch that he is a military man above all, one who can relate to other soldiers. Talk to him about previous deeds and various maneuvers. Ask him how he would have done things. In general talk to him as an old comrade in arms, maybe you can gently get soem info out of him.

2) Play good cop/bad cop. You are good and the MPs bad. Play on his fears. His rather burly built, a little too vide around the waist suggests that he is uncommon to pain. Perhaps removing a splint might convince him to talk.

3) Offer him goods, land and the leading position of the Russian Liberation Army. Bribe him. Again his seemingly gentle lifestyle might affect him greatly. Talk also of how Stalin is his worst enemy (look at the purges).

4) Attack his selfconfidence. Tell him how easy it was to defeat him, and how many mistakes he made, especially the one that got him caught. Show great contempt for him. If he is a proud man he might break up, but if he lacks the intiative of German officers he might not be so succeptive.

Hooray, the story is going on.

4 of course.

1) Play on your hunch that he is a military man above all, one who can relate to other soldiers. Talk to him about previous deeds and various maneuvers. Ask him how he would have done things. In general talk to him as an old comrade in arms, maybe you can gently get soem info out of him.Might work. But he has just been caught and I doubt that he is in the mood for some small talk.
2) Play good cop/bad cop. You are good and the MPs bad. Play on his fears. His rather burly built, a little too vide around the waist suggests that he is uncommon to pain. Perhaps removing a splint might convince him to talk.Never. First it won't work. 2nd, you are a Prussian General.
3) Offer him goods, land and the leading position of the Russian Liberation Army. Bribe him. Again his seemingly gentle lifestyle might affect him greatly. Talk also of how Stalin is his worst enemy (look at the purges).
This is absurd. Meanwhile every Soviet soldier believes in a final victory. You have nothing to offer. Things would be different if you knew that Stalin had send his familiy to Sibiria.
4) Attack his selfconfidence. Tell him how easy it was to defeat him, and how many mistakes he made, especially the one that got him caught. Show great contempt for him. If he is a proud man he might break up, but if he lacks the intiative of German officers he might not be so succeptive.
This will work. Generals are idle. Together with the hate against Germans he will talk. Good luck.

Kraxis, what is the wheather forecast?
Could you please call Wolfsschanze. We must have the control of all forces that belong to the attack: the northern group as well as the Luftwaffe.

4. After all he is just a Russian commander that got captured and needs to be taught a lesson while getting all the information out of him...

Nikita's dead! Even if you do loose, you've still had a huge impact on history. Congradulations!

Hmm, definetly not 3. I doubt one will work. You're not an old comrade in arms. 2 I don't know. Looks can be decieving, and that plane crash probably hurt a lot more than anything you can do. I guess go with four.

Not only attack the Russian's self confidence, but also lie to him, tell him that Stalin made him bait, to draw off the Germans while the Russians gathered more mobile forces for a counterattack. Making him lose his trust in Stalin would make him talk more easily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

1) Play on your hunch that he is a military man above all, one who can relate to other soldiers. Talk to him about previous deeds and various maneuvers. Ask him how he would have done things. In general talk to him as an old comrade in arms, maybe you can gently get soem info out of him.Might work. But he has just been caught and I doubt that he is in the mood for some small talk.

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Well, it wouldn't be smalltalk at all. It would have been a case where you would come in a play the generous host (getting rid of the MPs and getting food and drink), then sit down and tell him how impressed you have always been of his skills. You know, show him respect. To an extent the opposite of #4. But it is settled now, so don't go about changing your minds. ~:)

Btw, there is no chance that Hitler will grant you complete control, especially not with Jodl, Keitel and not the least von Kluge (he is your friend but you have antagonized him earlier and this would be too much for him) fighting against you. Besides it woud likely be too much for you to handle.
An option could be made, but the character does have a bit of common sense inherently.

The weather is currently bad with heavy rain. The wind in weak so the rain is not liekly to go away soon. At least the rest of the day and night is rainy (so far the weather have been very very good for the Rasputitsa season).

The Russian Connection

You take comfort in Vatutin's look of admiration at you, this should aide you greatly. You look at the two guards, then back at the Russian. You are sure, he is indeed afraid of them, and like dogs they have sensed it too. Their eyes gleam with anticipation. You are quite happy that you can't read their minds. Their posture and Vatutin's obvious fear of them would have a hugely negative impact on your talks here, his whole attention should be on you. You raise your marshall's baton and sweep it round towards the door with a short, sharp and icy cold "Leave us!". The two guards are surprised by this, and you think you hear a muted moan.
The fear in the eyes of Vatutin vanishes but in its stead you can see a concerned distrust.

You start out simply, as much for yourself as for him as the translater has yet to arrive, "Nikolai Vatutin... I had expected more from you."
To your pleasant surprise he answers you in broken German. "Well, events conspired against me..."
This could really help you, it is much easier to convey the true meanings and subleties when there is no need for translators. You also sense that he is slightly anoyed about what you said, his tone was one of defence. You decide that it is a weakness you should exploit.
"Events? You are an experienced commander, you know full and well that events don't just happen, you had a major influence in each and every one."
The Russian is taken aback. "But I could not have done anything about the trafficjam of 6th Guards Army."
You shake your head in disbelief. "Of course you could! You should know that motorized collumns are going to disorganize each other when they meet."
Vatutin is getting confused... "No... But... I can't be in the deep of what all my juniors are doing."
"You chose them, didn't you?! Or at least you could have replaced them with better men?!?!"
"They were perfectly good men."
You bark out a laugh. "Perfectly good men do not bungle up like that! They lost you the artillery of an entire Army, in the most important sector of the front, in either needless losses or confusion. If that is not incompetence I don't know."
He sighs. "Yes, that was indeed a major failure."
"What about your own little offensive against us? How did that go? Two strong Corps basically destroyed... And you yourself, a senior Frontcommander, you are now a prisoner due to your own incompetence."
"Wait a moment, I could have won! I know it."
"You know what?!? I can tell you that you played directly into my plans. You Russians are so damn predictable, you have yet to surprise me with anything."
"But we were about to crush Das Reich."
"To what end? Liebstandarte was on its way to cut you off, and you KNEW it. Yet you did nothing to halt it, you just increased your attacks in the forlorn hope that you could reach safety with 3rd Mechanized, which you also expended needlessly. Against a force of two battalions!"
"I had orders to halt you at any cost."
"Well that is obvious... You threw away basically two entire armies for no gain at all, fool! There was no chance that you could have halted us. And I'll let you in on a little secret, Zhukov knew it, Stalin knew it, damn even we knew it. You were hung out to dry by your very own leadership. That is how much confidence they had in you. 'Yes, let the Germans tire themselves against expendable forces. Who can we spare?' It is not hard to imagine Stavka like that only a month ago."
Vatutin remains silent, but his confidence is shaken.
"Even now we are heading deep into the hinterland. We are already brushing aside 2nd Guards Tanks Corps, hardly worth the fight as they have done nothing important. Your commander of 1st Tank Army is holding back his last remaining forces out of fear of annihilation. The plains behind Oboyan awaits us... Easily!"
Vatutin smiles. "I doubt that. We are stronger than you think. You have underestimated us the entire war, but we have not done the same."
"Underestimated?!?! Hardly! Whenever we have met face to face there has been but one result. Our victory."
"Not this time."
"Is that so... I'm afraid I can't see that. There is nothing between us and victory. Your friends will fail, just like you."
"The Teacher will teach you!" The word rings a bell... The Teacher... Where have I heard that before...
"If he has taught you, then I sincerely doubt it, for that was a lousy job." Your mind races for the clue to The Teacher.
"Haha... Not at all! He is younger than me."
"Makes no difference as there are no forces to stop us, and even one who is vastly better than you is no match for me."
"Never underestimate the ability of the steppe to generate forces." The steppe? Interesting...
"The steppe is vast and empty. The perfect playing ground for my panzers. Let them come. When fools like you are in charge..."
Vatutin angered and hurt, explodes. "You call me a FOOL?! YOU are the fool! You can't see anything beyond your big nose, so you think it isn't there, but we are masters of maskirovka (deception), while you are masters of blindness!!!"
"My dear Nikolai, that is not quite the case." You say with a confident smile, trying feverishly to cover your exitement. You have pieced it together.

You leave Vatutin, but let him drown his feelings in vodka. 'The Teacher' was the name a few captured soldiers had called the diminutive and spectacles equipped Marshall Rotmistrov when they had been interrogated, only a few months earlier. You know that he is usually associated with tanks and Guards. At the same time you have heard passing references to 'The Steppe' in intercepted communiques. It has so far been assumed that it was a reference to Siberia (as people, even entire units were sent to it and never heard of again). Now you are certain that it is a unit, a very large unit of armoured Guard forces, hidden by deception, led by the capable and coolheaded Rotmistrov.

For the rest of the day you follow the ongoing campaign. But the intencity is low and the battles small. By nightfall 11th Panzer and 3rd Panzer Corps have managed to capture the two weak divisions, 31st and 39th Rifle, but both 52nd GR and 375th Rifle managed to escape as they were closer to the opening. An abortive attempt by 2nd GT Corps to keep the hole open failed miserably as their tanks got struck in the mud on the Donets' riverbanks.
The line is now extending from Belgorod inwards along the Donets to a few miles short of Prokhorovka, where the line makes a protusion of LAH almost to the village itself, folloed down the line by GD, Totenkopf and Das Reich, ending with 3rd Panzer and 255th Infantry nearest Butovo. 332nd and 167th Infantry both occupy positions inside the bulge. Kampfgruppe Heidekamp has recieved a wellearned rest, and several tanks have returned, especially the fickle Panthers.

The weather is expected to be more rain tomorrow, but less intensive, but a period of a few hours during the night should be fairly dry. But once more the airforces should be contained. Their lack of support has cost you unpleasant losses among the infantry today, but he lack of Russian airattacks have kept the losses among the tanks low as few tanks have opposed your advance and the AT-guns have been scattered and few.

Model's advance has been substantial, but despite rapid gains intially he fell short of his objectives as local reserves were thrown against him. Typically of the foulmouthed general he said to you: "The bast*rds kept throwing sh*t at me." If it hadn't been such a serious issue you would have laughed, no wonder the man is Hitler's favourite, he talks like a grunt.
He did manage to take both Ponyri and Meloarkhangelsk, but Olkhovatka and the ring of hills remained out of his grasp. He expects that if the weather will it, he will take it all tomorrow. In his mind really bad rains will only help him as his infantry will then be able to advance unseen and free of artilleryintervention. And rains does seem to be on their way as the wind is carrying the heavy rains up from the south.

You spend an hour with Hoth talking about 'The Steppe' and it's possible impact on your advance. While you think it is a major problem, Hoth is very unconcerned, he argues that it would take days before any important formation could be ready to attack, and in that time it would be spotted. You on the other hand fear that it might be right in your path, and thus have no need for redeployment, in fact, to the north-northeast you can see a major patch of empty space where no known Russian formations linger. Hoth then argues that you have the momentum against a formation that was itself preparing to attack. To your great pleasure the famous Kurt Student had arrived to interrogate Vatutin further (while a paratrooper he is also a keen intellect on intelligence), and he joined the two of you in the discussions. His idea is born out of his rather special workplace. He advises a nightattack to actually find out what there might be in front of you.

So what will it be?

1) Once more listen to Hoth, and let the attack carry on in a northeasterly direction, past Prokhorovka and onto the big flat plains with few trees and woods. There is hardly any opposition to you besides 2nd GT, but you risk being blunted badly if 'The Steppe' is right in front of you.

2) Launch a general attack towards the north. Your troops are now in place, and you have 3rd Panzer Corps guarding your flank. This is what you have aimed for the previous days. There is no chance the forces arrayed against you can hold you back (31st Tank, remains of 3rd Mech and 5th GT as well as the two lucky breakers from today)

3) Student's idea is rather subversive. Attack with an armoured formation of captured T-34s and with a good sprinkling of Russianspeaking troops, during the clear part of the night. It should get rather far before the ruse is detected. If they detect any new and unknown force you can react to it. But it might cost you some initiative in the day.

3. followed by 2. As in: attack with the t34s tonight and launch an offensive next morning on a different sector of the front to keep the russians occupied and give your men more time.

I say 3. find out where this 'steppe' is before advancing.

Number three.The" Steppe" is the Russian reserve Armygroup,and if you dont scout their position, well You will lose this battle.If we can attract them to engage our forces now we can do the Russians same thing on a strategig level, what You did to the forces commanded by Vatutin on a tactical level.What Student is suggestin is genious.The "Steppe" is consisted of Siberian and Caucasian troops and we can masguarade our recon attack as Russians fighting against each other.The effects could be enermous.

Number Three. This "Steppe" is clearly a large army of its own and the Russian's hope to defeat you. There is no need to hurry now that the top leadership of the Russian defence is down. It'll only suffer further breakdowns before Stalin would appoint a replacement, and it'll then take time to readjust to the situation. You have plenty of time to make your move. Don't let your flank unguarded against a possible Russian counterattack by this "Steppe" because your forces pushed too far into the Steppes. ~;) Indeed, the initiative may have to be sacrificed but the slowed down place will give extra time for the soldiers to rest and the mechanics to restore the damaged tanks, thus restoring the strength of your divisions.

3. Any other option is defeat...

Ok, there's a wee little problem here.
Vatutin could be lying to you to throw you off. But still, a night attack with the captured T-34s would be a smart move, provided that you find a way to evacuate your Russian speaking soldiers. (Any night fighters with ground attack capability?)

And a question, has the 3rd PzKorps taken Belogrod yet?

Sure, let's go for number 3. I wouldn't prefer a trick at this point, but I don't care for the other options.

:wall: Why wait? Give the Russians time to dig and bad weather - that is all they need to stop a German attack. We broke their lines. Now push. Once we move we can destroy any Soviet formation. A little recon would be enough.

Kraxis, I would tell this foolish General that he betrayed the secrets you did not know. And tell him that Stalin willget this information when the battle is done. I am sure he will co-operate and give you more details. :disguise: