You've obviously never read Song of Ice and Fire...Quote:
Originally Posted by no1jeebes
Printable View
You've obviously never read Song of Ice and Fire...Quote:
Originally Posted by no1jeebes
Yup, but RJ ain't GRRM. RJ kills his characters with great dificulty. So far of main characters only Moraine "died" and was dead for only a couple books.
Rand will probably frein his death. Remember that all agreements with him last only untill TG and only fiew until his death. All those people that Rand made angry will want revenge. So he will have to frein death and continue living peacefuly somewhere, while only fiew people will know that he is alive (Avi, Min, Ely and maby Mat and Perin, and maby Egwene (because of power) or Logain (he is closely tied in that prophesy to live you must die. Egwene dreamed him stepping over Rand's body while knowing that he is alive, he will probably be the witnes of his "death")), so for general population he will be dead, while he is alive, to live you must die.
Or that prophesy os only about dying and rebirth. That is to get reborn you must die.
Well he said fantasy. And all great fantasy has major characters dying. Look at Lord of the Rings, I mean Frodo ends up leaving Middle Earth for goodness sakes! Not to mention Boromir, Gandalf (for a little bit), Theoden...
Ehh. None of the main, main characters dies. Boromir only had a bit part, and his bad side got shown so that his dying wouldn't impact us as much. Yeah Gandalf does, but as we all know, he comes back. Theoden was a bit part too. If Gimli or Legolas or Aragorn or Merry or Pippen had died... that would've been comparable to how GRRM writes.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I know in the chapter where it made it looked like Arya had died... I almost put the books down - it was just crushing. No other author has made me feel like that. No other author treats his characters like that. Nobody is sacred. I know Rand will find a way to win and will live happily ever after with his three wives in some way. I know it. I knew Frodo was going to overcome and vanquish the Dark Lord somehow. I knew it. I don't know what's going to happen in GRRM's world. And that in the end, makes it much more interesting. I just hope it will turn out good.
SMZ please use spoiler tags for those who are currently reading ASoFaI
doh! sorry, sorry and sorry
I haven't read "A Feast for Crows" yet myself, so none of that is from the newest... but I just ruined about a dozen surprises... many apologies Destroyer - I wasn't even thinking - I just got used to thinking of this as the "spoiler" thread...
Thanks Just wanted you to know
DoH
Heh, I was about to mention more suprises from Feast for Crows, so it's a good thing you mentioned it.
I like Martin's style, it's a lot more realistic. In real life, often the good guys don't win, or they go through hell to do so.
Jordan doesn't kill off enough characters its almost to the point were its unrealistic. Hes only killed off 3 of the forsken. Jorden does not like parting from his characters. The only non forsaken character he has killed off is tyrillen(Sp?) the atlara queen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Yeah, I agree. I get attached to characters, but I get even more attached to the survivors when some are killed off. Like I think Elayne, Egwene, and Nynanve, and... hmm, trying to think of a boring male character so I don't seem sexist.
Problem is, I like Mat, and Rand can't die until the end (if then). Mabye Perrin... then Faile would have to take over the Two Rivers. Or Faile should have died in the Aiel Camp, or ran off and married that tall Aiel fellow (the one that Perrin killed, I think...)
Word. And just like real life, in Martin's world - it's hard to tell who the "good guys" are sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
There are lots of characters striving for the same goal, or at least opposing ones, and I don't know really who to throw my sympathies in with.
Exactly. I mean, is Tyrion really bad? Or even Jaime? Is Stannis good? What about Dany?
Why are you discussing other books in the KoD thread?
cdaulepp
Yeah... lol @ this becoming a GRRM thread...
It was easy to hate Jamie, then karma hit him and now he doesn't seem so bad. The only characters I can really think of that I hate or think as of evil are Gregor (but he got his too), that red woman (ok - we need more info on her), Lady Starks sister (not evil per say - but I hate her anyway), and Theon (ingrate). And even none of them is presented as some wholly evil person.
EDIT: the convo just drifted that way... nobody's been saying anything about KoD for a minute anyway - if anyone's got something to say about KoD, this is still the place tho - just butt in..
RJ has killed off a few characters, mainly minor villains: Lord Turak Aladon, Barthanes Damodred, Jaichim Carridin, Eamon Valda, plus a few other ones like Geofram Bornhald, Pedron Niall (before he could carry out his plan to kick the Seanchan back into the ocean) etc. Nothing like GRRM-level though. Steven Erikson also kills off characters in his series (Malazan Book of the Fallen), but has a tendency to bring them back through resurrection, reincarnation, ascendence to godhood etc.
yeah - too many have some sort of cop-out... they always try to show that good is rewarded tangibly and evil is tangibly penalized
Pedron Niall's gotta be the most important character to go down that wasn't up to his neck in the side of the Shadow... He was pretty cool, but I guess the way had to be made for Galad =/
Niall Integer Bornhald and the altarn queen are the only non shadow characters that have died. Now the question is are the characters just going to start dying in the last book. A few boarderlanders are probably going to die when the trollocs break through ( things are starting to look bad for fallies family and Lan:san_sad: )Quote:
Originally Posted by SMZ
Nah, not really. I would say Ingtar was the first one, and the one I was most sorry to see dead. I know he was a DF, but it fealt like he turned when he met Rand. Also, a lot of Aes Sedai has died (one at the cleansing), an Aiel wise one, dreamwalker, and soem minor importantes (he kills of maidens easily:)). But still, no major guys. I was hoping for the death of Lan in this, book I had heard he would die, it would have been nice...
Ingtar Shinowa (the Shienarian) was quite important, I was sorry to see him die. And quite a lot of Aes Sedai have bitten the dust too at some point or other. Off hand I particularly remember Anaiya, I think she is killed in CoT. Not really an important character as far as the narrative is concerned, but she always seemed like an extremely nice person (not at all typical of Aes Sedai IMO, most of them could be called "good" maybe, but very few "nice" or "pleasant" to outsiders) and I was saddened when it was mentioned that she had been assassinated. Quite a few Aiel, too, and there are a couple of other good characters who died, like Herid Fel the philosopher.
I do agree that Jordan could stand to be a bit less protective of the main characters though, it's becoming really noticable to me recently (especially in comparison with things like ASOIAF) and it kind of saps some of the tension out of the narrative. I was actually hoping that Rand's meeting with the Seanchant (Semhirage's trap) would go badly for him and he'd be captured by the Forsaken, I was actually disappointed that she was dealt with so easily (except for the hand thing)
Antagonist
EDIT: ....*cough* I kind of left this thread open in a tab for several hours before I had time to reply, didn't think to refresh it, Andreas pointed out most of what I had to say...
If Lan had died it would have been the end of the world, a new Breaking will begin because Nynaeve would go postal and kill everything in sight. Ah if she only snaped in presence of enemy more.
Oh I too liked Pedron Nial a lot. He is one of rare male characters who realy thinks with his head
I liked Nial, even though I hate the Whitecloaks.
And they shouldn't kill Lan, he's actually interesting. Like I said, kill the annoying ones. And I vote that Rand should die, and Logain becomes Dragon. :san_grin:
Rand should live but should be sent to the Land of madmen. A madmen to rule madmen.
I kept hoping Cadsuane would die. I don't know why, but characters in her approximate mold (vaguely omniscient matriarchs who are powerful magic-users and are constantly sticking their noses into all the other characters' affairs) show up quite a lot in fantasy novels and for some reason I have developed an irrational dislike for them.
Antagonist
Well, I like Lan too, the reason I would have liked him dying would be that it would have moved some plots, I think. I thik Radn would have felt forced to do something, and maybe others too. What happend now was nice though. I would not have been sad to see the death of Perrin, or Min...
Somewhere it is written taht lot of people say Cadsuande will live as long as there are adventures. So there are two ways of her death.
1. Glorious hero death including mountains of dead Troloc around her and fiw Dreadlords, while holding some strategic point, or while saving Rand.
2. She will live to see world setteled after TG, rebilding of Towers ect. An after all taht finishes she will die as a relict of a time long gone.
Quote:
Or Faile should have died in the Aiel Camp, or ran off and married that tall Aiel fellow (the one that Perrin killed, I think...)
I was thinking about that when I was reading. Perrin just sniped that guy and he was never mentioned again. I thought that he played a bigger role than that and was expecting a little more dramatic showdown.
If you haven't yet noticed RJ has significaly boosted the speed of the story. If that Aiel hadn't died there he would take another 100 pages of book at least.
Remember how RJ just pulled Avieinda out of Cyemlin, that's because he had to reduce the number of characters and with that descriptions or he would never end it.
Read KoD today. I noticed how he sped it up too much but I think it would be a lot more focused to simply kill off most of the Aes Sedai by getting the rebels to attack the tower or the blacks to attempt to seize the tower.
The Blacks seizing the tower would be difficult, if only because of the investigation into them and the fact that what's her name is no longer the Keeper. I can imagine them trying to do so in juction with the rebel attack, though...
Yes and if they sieze the tower that would mean disposing Elaida which will shurely give room for rebels to act. It is in Forsaken's interest for Tower to remain broken. Part of Let the Lord of Chaos rule plan